It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.
Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.
Thank you.
Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.
Does Truth = Peace?
page: 8share:
When is violence justified?
A man is seen violently raping a young girl. He flees the scene, but the local men put together a posse and track him down, where they violently seize him, due to his refusal to surrender, and take him into custody.
There are witnesses and physical evidence. During the investigation of the crime, due to similarities to another crime, evidence is found connecting the same rapist to the rape and murder of another girl. They hold a trial by jury, and find the defendant guilty or rape and murder. The punishment is death. They then hang him as dictated by law.
A man is seen violently raping a young girl. He flees the scene, but the local men put together a posse and track him down, where they violently seize him, due to his refusal to surrender, and take him into custody.
There are witnesses and physical evidence. During the investigation of the crime, due to similarities to another crime, evidence is found connecting the same rapist to the rape and murder of another girl. They hold a trial by jury, and find the defendant guilty or rape and murder. The punishment is death. They then hang him as dictated by law.
reply to post by poet1b
The majority of people are living an illusion though, especially in america. Reality to me, at least at this juncture in my existence, is what my available senses relay to my brain about the world around me. Most people are concerned over made up issues that aren't actually REAL. Also the fact that people who make the laws are not the same people effected by the laws causes me to have great disdain with being a "law abiding citizen". If everyone took care of themselves in regards to introspection and solving personal problems, there would be no need for laws as we would live in harmony.
In today's society the majority of people break the laws, they just don't always get caught. So would you say laws work? They clearly aren't a deterrent as I can honestly say i do not know a single person who has never broken a law. If you think that person exists, perhaps you are living an illusion?
The majority of people are living an illusion though, especially in america. Reality to me, at least at this juncture in my existence, is what my available senses relay to my brain about the world around me. Most people are concerned over made up issues that aren't actually REAL. Also the fact that people who make the laws are not the same people effected by the laws causes me to have great disdain with being a "law abiding citizen". If everyone took care of themselves in regards to introspection and solving personal problems, there would be no need for laws as we would live in harmony.
In today's society the majority of people break the laws, they just don't always get caught. So would you say laws work? They clearly aren't a deterrent as I can honestly say i do not know a single person who has never broken a law. If you think that person exists, perhaps you are living an illusion?
reply to post by mnemeth1
I dig what you're saying OP.
But have you not faced a deceitful, manipulating, caniving human being that just stared at you and smiled the whole time they were getting their way?
It may not be right to punch them in the face, but lemme tell ya, it sure would feel good.
And there are a whole load of those manipulators out there. I'd like to smack the whole lot.
But alas, we suffer the consequences of THEIR actions in the name of peace... and we survive. And one day, yes, they will fall. But the feelings are THERE, and that is undeniable and impervious to logic.
I dig what you're saying OP.
But have you not faced a deceitful, manipulating, caniving human being that just stared at you and smiled the whole time they were getting their way?
It may not be right to punch them in the face, but lemme tell ya, it sure would feel good.
And there are a whole load of those manipulators out there. I'd like to smack the whole lot.
But alas, we suffer the consequences of THEIR actions in the name of peace... and we survive. And one day, yes, they will fall. But the feelings are THERE, and that is undeniable and impervious to logic.
reply to post by DancingBear
The illusion would be believing that we could live in a society without laws where everyone took care of their own problems.
You seem to refuse to see that many people willfully choose to take whatever they can get, irregardless of what it does to others. This is a true reality of our world. Getting rid of government will not stop this, in fact, it will make problems far worse.
The illusion would be believing that we could live in a society without laws where everyone took care of their own problems.
You seem to refuse to see that many people willfully choose to take whatever they can get, irregardless of what it does to others. This is a true reality of our world. Getting rid of government will not stop this, in fact, it will make problems far worse.
reply to post by poet1b
Firstly, irregardless is not a word...the prefix and suffix mean the same thing.
Secondly, the reason that i have the hope that I do for the human race is due to my experiences with people from all walks of life, who I can get along with fine and reason with to an extent.
Lastly, it seems you have given up hope and truly believe that people are inherently evil. I contest that if we changed our current world, the children of tomorrow would grow up in an environment absent of all the nasty things you think come naturally to human beings.
Firstly, irregardless is not a word...the prefix and suffix mean the same thing.
Secondly, the reason that i have the hope that I do for the human race is due to my experiences with people from all walks of life, who I can get along with fine and reason with to an extent.
Lastly, it seems you have given up hope and truly believe that people are inherently evil. I contest that if we changed our current world, the children of tomorrow would grow up in an environment absent of all the nasty things you think come naturally to human beings.
reply to post by mnemeth1
Although i think that i understand your point, i have a question. Where " Power" fits to the picture??
For example: Take 2 persons. Give to the one person a "Gun" what happens next?? "Peace "or "War"?? "Truth" or "Lies"?
Peace
Is it possible for a person who obeys rigorous logic and reason to rationalize the initiation of violence against others if they know, understand, and accept the truth about any given situation?
I’m working on a theory that states violence is fundamentally tied to lies and truth is fundamentally tied to peace – do I sound like a New Age hippie yet?
Although i think that i understand your point, i have a question. Where " Power" fits to the picture??
For example: Take 2 persons. Give to the one person a "Gun" what happens next?? "Peace "or "War"?? "Truth" or "Lies"?
Peace
edit on 23-2-2011 by Seed76 because: (no reason given)
reply to post by DancingBear
I don't believe that all people are inherently evil. Read my posts.
We don't live in a digital world of go or no go. Some people are good, and some people are bad. One of the important uses of knowledge is to learn to recognize the difference.
The first step might be to back off of semantics.
Regardless, is caring less, or having less regard. Irregardless is not caring less, or not having less regard. The other way to put it is, that they don't care at all what their actions do to others, except in how it may impact themselves.
I don't believe that all people are inherently evil. Read my posts.
We don't live in a digital world of go or no go. Some people are good, and some people are bad. One of the important uses of knowledge is to learn to recognize the difference.
The first step might be to back off of semantics.
Regardless, is caring less, or having less regard. Irregardless is not caring less, or not having less regard. The other way to put it is, that they don't care at all what their actions do to others, except in how it may impact themselves.
reply to post by jed001
Yeah, we all build our own unique interpretation of reality based on our own unique perspective of reality. Everyone's view of reality is at least slightly different. We then reinforce our perception by exchanging points of view with others.
Yeah, we all build our own unique interpretation of reality based on our own unique perspective of reality. Everyone's view of reality is at least slightly different. We then reinforce our perception by exchanging points of view with others.
reply to post by poet1b
So would you say people that are bad now were born bad or learned how to be bad?
And I was just letting you know for future reference that to my knowledge, irregardless is not a word, I still understood what you meant.
EDIT: Your explanation of regardless is incorrect. And putting a definition on a non-word still doesn't make it a word.
So would you say people that are bad now were born bad or learned how to be bad?
And I was just letting you know for future reference that to my knowledge, irregardless is not a word, I still understood what you meant.
EDIT: Your explanation of regardless is incorrect. And putting a definition on a non-word still doesn't make it a word.
edit on 23-2-2011 by
DancingBear because: mirar
edit on 23-2-2011 by DancingBear because: typo
Originally posted by DancingBear
reply to post by IAMIAM
I don't know what i would do because I'm not sure of all of the boundaries of this "world" you've set up. Meaning are there other animals? i would probably kill an animal before a human in a survival situation. Then again if I am Family A i feel like I would be able to convince one of the other families to give me aid also.
Basically I can't say what i would do with any certainty because I have not and am not currently in that situation or one similar to it.
Thank you for a very honest answer. This is pure truth that you have spoken. Bless you for your honesty.
As you do not know, you cannot judge.
With Love,
Your Brother
i would like to think so, but if its anything like my relationships i have to lie to girl friends because they cant handle the truth.
reply to post by DancingBear
They choose to be bad. They decide that looking out for themselves, and taking advantage when the opportunities present themselves, are how they are going to live their lives. Of course there are varying degrees.
encarta.msn.com...
How can people not tell the difference of meaning between not and less?
Each his own I say.
They choose to be bad. They decide that looking out for themselves, and taking advantage when the opportunities present themselves, are how they are going to live their lives. Of course there are varying degrees.
encarta.msn.com...
How can people not tell the difference of meaning between not and less?
Each his own I say.
reply to post by mnemeth1
The ultimate truth is that all experiences are meaningless - pain is just an electric signal.
Any time we engage in the illusions of the physical world, we are getting away from the truth.
If we did not have bodies, there would be nothing to fight over, and nothing to fight with...
When we can learn to master the body's urges, we can master the art of tranquility.
The ultimate truth is that all experiences are meaningless - pain is just an electric signal.
Any time we engage in the illusions of the physical world, we are getting away from the truth.
If we did not have bodies, there would be nothing to fight over, and nothing to fight with...
When we can learn to master the body's urges, we can master the art of tranquility.
reply to post by mnemeth1
Ummmm......your original premise is flawed, logic does not preclude violence, not in any fashion. It is thoroughly "logical" to violently cause harm when threatened by harm, in order to preserve your life, or anothers, or when a member of your "tribe" is harmed or threatened.
It is also logical to kill an animal, an extraordinarily violent act, in order to preserve life for self or tribe.
Neither logic, or love equate peace. One can maintain an inner peace while providing for oneself, even in causing death to another being.
YouSir
Ummmm......your original premise is flawed, logic does not preclude violence, not in any fashion. It is thoroughly "logical" to violently cause harm when threatened by harm, in order to preserve your life, or anothers, or when a member of your "tribe" is harmed or threatened.
It is also logical to kill an animal, an extraordinarily violent act, in order to preserve life for self or tribe.
Neither logic, or love equate peace. One can maintain an inner peace while providing for oneself, even in causing death to another being.
YouSir
Originally posted by mnemeth1
My rule is universal, as it applies to individuals as well as entire societies, which are obviously nothing more than large groups of individual actors.
If someone can find an exception to this rule, I’d like to hear about it.
I am sorry, but I do not see the logic or full rationalisation, the big picture why it would be like this..
Please hear me out, I did not see in the text the full logic that would back this up.
I have personally theorized that:
1. Honesty, equals allways true love - and true relationships, that are free of any "assumptions" not based on truth.
From that perspective, I saw a hint of truth in your text.. But did not catch why this would be universally so.
2. Lie equals (irrational) fear, and this creates also relationships that are filled with assumptions
(..which, by commenting your theory, could -and does- create" violentness that is born due to the lies" = from false expectations..)
The lying and deceiving (& abuse in a relationship) might be even born out of politeness, if one is not being truthful - because that will give ground for assumptions (=false expectation of how things are) to grow that are not based on truth.
This is how long I have gotten myself to.
Truth, allways equals that which is real, meaning if you tell the truth to your friend about something, you can be sure, that you friendship is real, instead of being only a hopeful image of such a one, that both parttakers are acting out.
But I do not see, how violence would be tied into mainly lying..
Our theories might complement eachother also, so there might be a real truth srpouting up here...
Good work on the philosphizing anyhow, you are on the right path...
edit on 23-2-2011 by Jussi because: (no reason given)
Lol there is no research needed to be done my friend
If everyone had truth their wouldnt be a trillion different beliefs, I think we could come to some common ones.
Lies cause violence ofc they do! More doom for humanity, any seeker of true knowledge would not want there learnings to be of BS!
Truth = Peace, Love= Peace, Light = Peace, Sharing = Peace, Caring = Peace
Lies = Violence/hate, Jelousey = Violence/hate, Pride/Ego (CAN) = Violence/hate, Racism = Violence/hate etc..
OMG! Research done !
Love your family, friends, AND your enemies! We are all in this world together to learn, we learn from one another. We need to live in peace to growth, to learn the truth
If everyone had truth their wouldnt be a trillion different beliefs, I think we could come to some common ones.
Lies cause violence ofc they do! More doom for humanity, any seeker of true knowledge would not want there learnings to be of BS!
Truth = Peace, Love= Peace, Light = Peace, Sharing = Peace, Caring = Peace
Lies = Violence/hate, Jelousey = Violence/hate, Pride/Ego (CAN) = Violence/hate, Racism = Violence/hate etc..
OMG! Research done !
Love your family, friends, AND your enemies! We are all in this world together to learn, we learn from one another. We need to live in peace to growth, to learn the truth
also lets try an experiment here, ATS=ABOVE TOP SECRET or it used to, but these days its more like ATS=AMERICANS TALKING #E thats the truth lets see
if you can handle by remaining calm and peaceful.
reply to post by mnemeth1
I beleive that truth is directly related to the perception of an individual or group. A person/group across the street might perceive a crime differently than a person/group a few feet away. The same goes for international affairs. Some things might be perceived as a lie by an outside observer but the sames situation might de perceived as truth from yet an other vantage point. Nothing is black and white in this world. There are many shades of grey. But I have tried to find en example of violence due to truth with out lies with no equivications and I can not find one instance of such violence...you might be onto something. S&F
I beleive that truth is directly related to the perception of an individual or group. A person/group across the street might perceive a crime differently than a person/group a few feet away. The same goes for international affairs. Some things might be perceived as a lie by an outside observer but the sames situation might de perceived as truth from yet an other vantage point. Nothing is black and white in this world. There are many shades of grey. But I have tried to find en example of violence due to truth with out lies with no equivications and I can not find one instance of such violence...you might be onto something. S&F