China official warns of domestic unrest and "hostile" West

This isn't a good thing.

The Chinese regime isn't stupid. They have so far managed to transition from communism to successful fascism.

They put down one democratic uprising before and a lot of region unrest, through repression. However they must know that their strategy of limiting access to information cant stand forever.

Totalitarian regimes can only justify themselves with respect to an external threat or by stoking a national grievance. The middle east has shown that when people get on the streets its almost too late.

At what point does the PRC go looking for a short victorious war?

reply to post by SLAYER69


My perspective? no need for that. A personal attack there I feel, and uncalled for. I didn't attack you so....

I look out of the window and see people less motivated and resting on the laurels of the developed world system. that is my observation rather than my personal perspective.

There is no need to show off my personal perspective, but lets just say it is far removed from what you are thinking or implying.

reply to post by tooo many pills


I did notice that also, 25% tax to "force them" to the table.

Honestly do you think this will work? I am not so sure, and such a tactic will back fire, if it has not for him already!

As for the currency manipulation, well are they not doing the same as the banks, additionally with the massive trade surplus, I would be afraid of what would happen if they let it loose on the FOREX full and live.

I just think it would be like letting a shark loose in a tank fully of tuna!

reply to post by JakiusFogg


That wasn't a personal attack.
I thanked you for your perspective. I still do. I hadn't realized some were so sensitive.

On-topic I still say it's fear based.

reply to post by SLAYER69


In that case I withdraw the last. Been hanging out here too much. Not used to people being gracious and sincere!!

Fear based. OK yes, I am inclined to agree somewhat with that. However that, to my mind at least just cannot be the whole story. I think the psychological make up of the Chinese has a lot to do with it.

If we were talking PRNK. I would agree 100%, but with this. ahhh well there is always that naggin doubt.

reply to post by JakiusFogg


I once had a long and spirited discussion with a member in an older thread who claimed to be from Mainland China his take on a similar thread topic was that their masses needed to be tightly controlled that if they had the tiniest amount of western level of liberal freedom as is had in the West he felt they would fall into anarchy which is the way he said their Government felt as well.

Now, that was just one persons perspective. I said that not having traveled there myself my perspective was and is still limited. I asked him to enlighten me on why it would deteriorate into anarchy and he proceeded to point all the failings of the west. I retorted yet the West is in spite of all that is still here and is not overpopulated and thus does not require a certain population control etc.

He had no real rebuttal just more finger pointing at the west's perceived cultural failings, Yet never really addressing their own internal problems. Having said that I've seen this many times online while discussing similar topics. They seem to regard the discussion of their internal problems with distaste and become resentful but choose to freely criticize the West. I feel that if they are to truly become a Global Super power they'll need to develop thicker skin and learn to handle criticism and critiquing of their situation.

We here in the West see our dirty laundry aired right out in the open for all to see.

Information within China is utterly controlled by the Government, especially in cyberspace, to the extent that any foreign business operating in China can expect sensitive information to be compromised. It is one of, if not the most paranoid country when it comes to internal defence. It would be extremely foolish for anyone in China itself to attempt to stir up protests on the internet or elsewhere, there is every chance that they would be caught. Indeed it was due to the insane level of control and cyber-surveillance that the protests were quite insignificant.

The call for protests first appeared on the Chinese-language but US-based site Boxun.com, in the form of an anonymous post. It was an attempt at organising mass protests in specific areas at 2pm, it suggested that protesters chant slogans calling for democracy, food, work, and housing. It encouraged people to spread dissent and complain about unemployment, inflation and state intrusion. The call spread across the internet, most notably through Twitter, Facebook and other blogging sites. No-one actually knows who organised the protests or who set the ball rolling, not least the small number of Chinese protesters who turned up.

I don't think that Jipeng is out of order by suggesting that there was Western involvement, the relevant information would be available to him but as far as we're concerned it isn’t inconceivable. The Chinese pursue extensive cyber-warfare operations directed at the West and so a cyber-based slap in the face on our part is only fair. The most striking questions are summarised in this internal Stratfor document, distributed to guide and advise intelligence analysts:

2. China: Following a call for a “Jasmine Revolution” in China, several gatherings took place in different Chinese cities Feb. 20, including Beijing and Shanghai. It is important not to look at the China gatherings only through the lens of a Tunisia- or Egypt-style “revolution.” Where did the call originate? Why were there no organizers present at the announced rally sites? Why were the 13 targeted cities chosen, but others left off the list? Why distribute a call for a popular protest in China over websites and blogs commonly blocked or monitored in China. Was there external involvement? Is this a one-off incident, or does it portend further attempts or the potential for a wider movement of activism across China?

reply to post by JakiusFogg

Honestly do you think this will work? I am not so sure, and such a tactic will back fire, if it has not for him already!
As for the currency manipulation, well are they not doing the same as the banks, additionally with the massive trade surplus, I would be afraid of what would happen if they let it loose on the FOREX full and live.

I am not completely certain what would happen or if it would work. I think if they stopped the Yuan manipulation against the dollar and it rose to what it should naturally be at, then the great deal on cheap labor and exports our corporations are getting now would be no more. So, they would lose their trade surplus as businesses left because it would be stupid to pay the same price for manufacturing plus shipping halfway across the world. The Chinese people would be richer as their money would be worth more on the dollar, but their economy would collapse because there wouldn't be any more foreign manufacturing jobs.

reply to post by SLAYER69


Certainly I will agree with the indoctrination of the population en-mass. However I struggle to relate this my experiences with working with Chinese people, from the PRC.

OK the closest I have got to mainland china in Singapore and Hong Kong Airport the former basically being run by ethnic Chinese. Whereas Hong Kong is a world hub of capitalism. However I am aware that travel from Mainland into Hong Kong for "normal" people is restricted.

But then we had dealings with a company in Sichuan province, I spent many night talking online, and transferring data with our rep there from the other side of the pacific. After my colleague went there, he cam back and said the experience was surreal, in that everfy piece of data I had sent had been printed and was being examined by around 100 people in a large room. page by page. any discrepancy that was found was brought forward and noted.

Not the "hey look what I have found, aren't I good" attitude that i see in the western world But a "sorry I have found this, nd now we can put it right" attitude.

And then I see reports from the like of Beijing, where (at least it seems to me) there is a growing culturally aware upwardly mobile section of society, who someone (i don't know how) seem to be comformtable with thenhybrid communism / capitalism, almost like there is no schism.

That I find deeply intriguing

China ? Is the largest open-space prison on the planet if you ask me! Is not communism , nor capitalism, just plain slavery! I am actually very surprised by the obedience and docility of the people, i guess it is already culture to be opresed in a way or another..

reply to post by tooo many pills


I get that, but here is what I already see happening. Chinese tourists now in the UK (Young too) all coming to the UK with lots of money. spending '000s of pounds like it's nothing.

THeir money already buys a lot.

However for manufactured goods for example. they have capability to produce on such a large scale that their cost per unit in USD terms is very low.

Say they pay 100 (10 USD, i haven't checked the proper exchage but let say is 10:1) Yuan a month to a man making radios and sell at 200 (20 USD). if they floated their currency and the price went up against the USD to 1:1 (unthinkable surely) suddenly is your radio going to costs 200 USD. No, they will simple pay the man 10 Yuan a month, and sell the radio for 20 Yuan.

Now THATS's market manipulation.

By the way, check you zipper tag.

Bet you it has YKK stamped on it

reply to post by JakiusFogg


There are vast differences as well as many similarities. That goes without saying. I've written few replies on a possible implosion and not economic but from their masses. Sooner or later all those average workers will want their money to have real value and to spend their hard earned money traveling abroad. The tighter their Government tries to control the harder it will be to maintain that level.

This is whats interesting to me.

reply to post by SLAYER69


The equation is much, much simpler than many are suggesting.

A. How many people within given area

B. How much resources within given area

C. How much freedoms may exist within given area.

When A > B; C < ideal

There is a tight range between freedoms and controls that a country may sustainably have, with the given circumstances. If the people are given too much freedom, with too little resources + too many people, there will be anarchy. If the people are given too much control in the same situation, there will be anarchy. Same applies to any amount of resources which can be secured by a people within whatever given area. It's a tight rope rulers must walk in order to keep from falling.

Originally posted by JakiusFogg
Interesting times, especially as just the other night Donald Trump goes on CNN spouting how he might run for President, and if elected he is gonna face down those Chinese, becuase(sic) he has worked with them, and knows them, and considers them "The ENEMY"
Really he said that, on CNN, repeatedly in fact, then bragged ab out how much he knew them from many business deals.
Well guess what Mr Trump. I think that statement there was the PRC just saying, actually Donny, now you won't be!!!
As for whatever else they may be referring too. It's probably true and the US is scared as it will be overtaken economically very soon by the PRC, and there is not a damn thing they can do to stop it, bar covert war. as they know that actual war with China would be suicide!!

China’s global agenda is to take over the world. They will provide the necessary means to the Islamic community to stir them into an Anti-American fury. While they infiltrate the very home land of America, they continue to instigate suppression of their own people.
Dear Mr Fogg, it sounds like you have a beef with not only the US and Briton, but it's allies as well. I’m reminded of your thread here that you glibly question the collapse of both the Euro and the Dollar.
www.abovetopsecret.com...

and here, your “dream” of a Japan Earthquake
www.abovetopsecret.com...

And a passive pro-Ahmadimejad thread here
www.abovetopsecret.com...
And many other of your threads, are of the same temperament.
Why be so passive aggressive, or secretive about it.
Your Sino Pro-Islamic. Is your ISP # from Beijing?
America going to war with China would be suicide?
Perhaps Mr Fogg, more eloquently, it would be M.A.D. (Mutual Assured Destruction).
No one will win.

reply to post by SLAYER69


Dude, sorry but the alarm has already gone.

They already are

BBC Fast:Track

That's what's scary

Watch the vid, in the first minute 57 MILLION will travel abroad this year.

reply to post by JakiusFogg


I appreciate the link. Now, When they go back they'll see and feel the difference. Once that happens their Government cannot put the proverbial Ginnie back in the bottle....

Well, all autocratic, single-party, corrupt, suppressive regimes looking at the popular uprisings in the Middle East will be doing so with some trepidation. China is ruled by such whose loyalty is primarily focussed on the perpetuation of power and authority in themselves at the expense of the wider population. The Chinese authorities have been quite successful in quelling dissent and keeping the population quiet.

How long before Tiananmen Square Round 2 and what will the authorities do? Best set things up in such a way that it does not get that far. It is China’s interest to start getting the accusations in and prepare for the plea for the nationalist vote to divert attention from the reality that the Chinese leadership are no different from Mubarak, Gaddafi, Ahmadinejad and a dozen or more unaccountable tyrants who have a contempt for human rights and the people they say they serve. They all blame others for their woes. Poor things.

Regards

Originally posted by SLAYER69
reply to post by JakiusFogg

 

... When they go back they'll see and feel the difference. Once that happens their Government cannot put the proverbial Ginnie back in the bottle....

Unfortunately, how many are on Recon/SOG?
btw,
a loose Vietnamese translation of "they're devil dogs" (please correct me if I'm wrong),
Thong tuc ma cho

reply to post by Violater1


Hello Mr Violater,

Good to see you back here again.

Lets look at it this way. I am white British, So I am allowed a beef with the UK So no my ISP is not from Beijing. (surely this site would be blocked!!!! )

As for the rest,

On my post re: Gordon Browns assessment of the Euro (of which the UK is NOT a member) this is what it was, there were his words, which I found odd that a former prime minister would now choose to voice such concerns. Given the rise in inflation since the new year and the spreading Austerity measure enforced across Europe, Including the like of Angela Merkel publicy questioning the viability of the Euro. along with the great expectation of the Dollar Collapse (just see the COMEX) which is prolific here on ATS. I see this as a portent of things to come, hence what you say as a glib remark. Well glib it may be, but I fully believe that time will tell on that one. although condition in this new year are harsh.

ON my dream of an Earthquake in Japan, well it was just that, an actual dream rather than a heartfelt wish as you imply. and for the first time I felt like sharing, You try to paint my allegane to China by using the destruction of Japan as an Example. Maybe it was prophetic as only just this last week the Chinese economy has for the first time replaced Japan as the No.2 world economy. That will have shaken things up there. However on a personal note. I actually have great affinity with Japanese culture more so than Chinese. A student of Bushido, and Japanese Art, Certainly from a technological point of view I believe Japan still is at the cutting edge and will continue to be so for years to come.

On Mr Afterdinnermint (I have also referred to him as that in previous posts) I believe that although he may be a despotic tyrant, he has been written off as such, and thusly his words are not worth listening to. Even though it has been shown that time and time again the MSM paraphrase. In fact myself I have seen CNN take no more than 30 seconds to screw his words from that of the official UN translator to their own agenda. Ignore you enemy at your peril. Therefore I say he IS worth listening to. (by the way I am also ancestrally Jewish!! how weird is that!!)

In short Mr Violator. Although you attempt to paint me as an Anti American / Capitalist Pro Terrorist / Chinese Empire supporter. What I am in fact is a Businessman, who finds need and worth in looking at trends, and seeing beyond the words of the of the spoon feeding media, and by seeking alternatives to this NWO drived banking system we are in now, leads to places you would not normally think of. Simply I just prefer to take everything in, dicard what I do not believe and adopt the rest. Regardless of the source. nothing should be ignored

If i find worth in the words of our "enemies" them it is damn well worth listening to as it gives you insight into their thinking. As my old Sensei said, if it works, use it.

Sticking with old sterotypes and propaganda will gain you hard fight. The example I will give just to rub you up the wrong way, is that of the US Forces fighting in the Pacific, where at there start of the engagement the men were told that the Japanese soldier, is short, poor sighted with a sauce pan for a helmet and a gun made of tin cans. when in fact they were a pseudo samurai inspired bunch, well trained and battle hardened with years of prior war with who else, ooooh China.

This I do not believe is a good idea, train hard, fight easy, overestimate your enemy, under estimate yourself, listen to what he has to say, and use it.

I for one regardless of what everyone hopes and prays will happen, will be learning Mandarin for the business future. As, as it happens I do agree with your assumption on their agenda!! strange that.

Just to add, with a national debt pushing 10's of Trillions of Dollars now, seriously, and without national bias, who is your money on.

Don't tell me you are just going to say that the US will just Nuke them in M.A.D.

Spoiled child taking his ball back home.

reply to post by SLAYER69


Well you never know!! maybe, or possibly they could just implement ideas in their own framework. Just look at the new Chinese aircraft coming into production. it's basically a carbon copy Airbus!!

I never said they were trustworthy, just clever.