Retired USAF pilot Col. Guy S. Razer says 9/11 was 'inside job' perpetrated by US government

This is a reply to... sorry.. i'm still getting to grips with ATS stylee.

The real identities of the alleged planes. No serial numbers from wreckage?
No maintenance records available of the four airplanes?

What are you suggesting or alluding to here?

In my opinion this thread is one in a milion conspiracies hanging in the air in the USA.
The question is are you really love your country?
If the answer is 'yes', then what can you do about it, what can you do instead just sitting in
the chair and google all the bull# and everything, and just theorize what is this, or what is that, how that cant be...
Do you think that someone hear you?
There are revolutions around the world, people just dont wait to see what is going to be, they are DOING something.
Say it right, say it loud, say it in the right place.
The whole US is a paranoid schizophrenia.
Isn't it obvious?

FLAG

reply to post by trebor451

When it comes to 9/11 Trutherism, "credentials and background" most times do not equate to competency and logic. I could care less how many flight hours or combat missions or aeronautical engineering degrees or boxer shorts someone has if they are unable to understand the demonstrably clear events of 9/11.

Making up excuses to justify your beliefs to the OS only show how ignorant you are of the given topic. You even had to invent a new word * Trutherism,* to insult the Truth movement for showing you the scientific evidence that proves the government lied about the events of 911. Don’t take your anger out on them; take it out on your lying passed administration that did everything in their power to block all inquires and investigations and outright lied to the compromised 911 Commission.

We all know the “demonstrably clear events of 9/11,” and they are the lies that were told to the American people by our government.

reply to post by manmental

What are you suggesting or alluding to here?

Suggesting? No they are facts. I don’t mean to be offending but you should do some more research on the topic about the four planes that were allegedly hijacked.

Once again, there are people who are holding on to their belief in the OS. It is hard to have beliefs challenged, it turns your world upside down. Looking at the inconsistencies, anomalies and coincidences, there is enough questionable material to open a Grand Jury investigation if this were a criminal case (which it should be). I must applaude the 9-11 Commission, though, for they held as grandiose, effective and credible investigation as the Warren Commission.

That was the first event that lead people not to fully trust the government and it's gone downhill from there. I imagine that it would hurt most people to learn the truth about how our government has been hijacked by the elite, wealthy, corporate and the greedy, for this is not the America we were taught about. Some bad people secretly took it away from us.

Gulf of Tonkin. MKULTRA (spraying of toxins over cities, and the illegal drugging of citizens with '___'). Project Northwoods. When does it stop? 9-11?

Americans are generally good people; if you leave us alone, we leave you alone. Like most parents taught us, we don't start fights --we finish them. The people in power KNOW our nature. And while we fight like rabid mongooses (or is that mongeese?) when backed into a corner, we won't mess with you unless you royally do something provoking. TPTB know these things about the average 'Merican. Ergo, if someone wanted to invade anywhere in the world, merely stage an attack by people from that region/country. Voila! WAR.

The military-industrial complex needed a new enemy since the Cold War fizzled to an anti-climactic ending (which was the BEST kind since any climactic ending probably would have involved global nuclear war). The seeds of the GWOT (Global War on Terrorism) were being planted a decade or more beforehand. In fact, there was plenty of material to work with ---these Muslim terrorists had been pulling off nasty, horrendous shiite for years. With that in mind, you can bet that, even now, during the GWOT, seeds for the next conflict are being planted: most likely, China, but that's just speculation based on current events, the growth of China, the loss of ballistic missile technology to them from a lost laptop at Los Alamos, and the ponderings of the author of the best-selling book, "The Late Great Planet Earth."

When the GWOT kicked off, people were informed via briefings (in the DoD) that his conflict was going to last for *decades.* It's like leasing a vehicle. The military-industrial complex needs wars to be fought to maintain itself. Each new age is defined by its conflict. The Cold War lasted from the late 40s until the early 90s. For about 10 years there was little to focus on, except keeping Iraq in check. We had a good ten year break. And even then, there was trouble in the Balkans. Then, 9-11... Voila. War. For decades of entertainment, like the release of a new expansion pack for a video game like Starcraft 2.

Back to it... People formerly known as "conspiracy theorists" have become DEBUNKERS when it comes to 9-11. And the OS is filled with leaky holes. Yet, some people refuse to consider the evidence for fear of where it might lead. It's hard to live your life and enjoy barbeques and beer when there is a Shadow Over Innsmouth. The important thing is not to let the truth consume you. Yet, it is initially disturbing. Many, still, hold on to the OS as *gospel* and have become BELIEVERS in the OS. I, too, had been in that position until I *objectively* began looking into the facts.

Originally posted by RustyShakleford92
reply to post by DimensionalDetective

 

Good find. Thanks for the read.

Can I ask a question though. The thing I don't understand about this demolition conspiracy theory is.... why is it so important to make the buildings fall? I mean, 4 hijacked planes, people killed.... HELL one plane to the Pentagon is enough to start a war.

What is the significance of complicating the situation and trying to make the buildings fall? The government could care less about public support, if indeed, a terrorist organization just pummeled a plane into the Pentagon alone.

There is always someone "proving" the fact that the buildings could have fell, and then someone right next to him able to "prove" that it is impossible under the set circumstances.

You forget that there is the small issue of Silverstein and his $6 Billion I think it was insurance pay-out for all the buildings destroyed in the attacks, at a time that occupancy was low and he was allegedly losing money.

There must be something to gain for someone in these situations.

Let's not forget the bizarre trades (put options) on Wall Street on the affected airlines right before 9/11, that netted a cool $250 million right after, and were quietly collected later. They stood out for the timing and very large amounts, and the fact they were only against those two specific airlines.

Either:

* Someone had a functional crystal ball (very unlikely).

or

* Someone knew what was coming (extremely likely).

Originally posted by manmental
This is a reply to... sorry.. i'm still getting to grips with ATS stylee.

The real identities of the alleged planes. No serial numbers from wreckage?
No maintenance records available of the four airplanes?

What are you suggesting or alluding to here?

Here, I won't even make you search, even though that's the best way to learn. Most people don't appreciate information that's given to them, especially when they've got a lot of preconceived ideas about the truth, as you've recently admitted:

FAA Records Regarding 9/11 Aircraft Unavailable For Release

Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) requests of the Federal Aviation Administration, seeking various records regarding the four aircraft involved in the terrorist attacks of September 11, 2001 has been denied on the basis that such records are not available for release.

Failure to release the requested information was not per any established FAA information request exemptions, normally cited by federal agencies that deny FOIA requests:

www.faa.gov...

FOIA response letter: 911blogger.com...

Another mind-blower:

Here are some very strange findings regarding the paper-fate of the four aircraft that went "missing" on 9/11. The following info is copied directly from www.planecrashinfo.com You're free to verify the data yourself if you want to do the homework. I did...

VERY STRANGE 9/11 AIRCRAFT REGISTRATIONS

Originally posted by manmental
i like to think i assimilate and regurgitate well without checking too many facts but you've proved i should check stuff more...

Absolutely correct. Allow me to demonstrate why this is so important:

Originally posted by manmental
Well said. Nor has it happened for a large passenger jet loaded with fuel to hit a building at such high speeds. Ever. First times... and look what occured. Wow.

What if I told you the WTC towers were specifically designed and constructed to withstand multiple impacts (and fuel fires) from a 707, the largest aircraft in existence at the time the towers were built and comparable in size, weight and fuel capacity to a 767?

That will be your next homework assignment, Grasshopper.

reply to post by weedwhacker

Those who were "in charge" were grossly incompetent, and had a tiger by the tail (when they were egotistic enough to think they could control it). THAT is the "conspiracy" being covered up. The terrible miscalculations and mistakes made. Seems they completely underestimated what was actually being planned, and to what extent. This explanation accounts for EVERY little niggling thing that "bothers" the "truthers" ....not the extremely more and more complicated Rube Goldberg-esque "theories" that have popped up (and keep popping up).

Ohh my, this response was predicted ages ago..
If the OS is looking flimsy, change the subject to the Government and ALL them officials were merely incompetent.....
Funny though, I only remember promotions, no sackings or charges...

reply to post by trebor451

When it comes to 9/11 Trutherism, "credentials and background" most times do not equate to competency and logic. I could care less how many flight hours or combat missions or aeronautical engineering degrees or boxer shorts someone has if they are unable to understand the demonstrably clear events of 9/11.

Odd, you can easily check this guys credentials but you don't think he's credible??

Yet you listen to Weedwhacker who has NEVER shown that he's ever left the ground....

Originally posted by DimensionalDetective
Another high-level military official, who appears to have quite the credentials and background, STRONGLY contesting the O/S, and literally calling out TPTB directly, saying they were BEHIND the attacks.

He says after investigating 9 / 11 for FOUR YEARS, he is ONE HUNDRED PERCENT convinced that this was an act of the highest treason carried out by our gov...

I will let the readers draw their own conclusions on his statements and credentials.

Thoughts?

Lt. Col. Guy S. Razer, U.S. Air Force (ret)
Combat fighter Pilot; MS Aeronautical
Science,



•U.S. Air Force command fighter pilot

•Former instructor, U.S. Air Force Fighter Weapons School and NATO’s Tactical Leadership Program.

•As an Air Force weapons effects expert, was responsible for wartime tasking of most appropriate aircraft/munition for target destruction to include steel and concrete superstructures.

•Former aeronautical structures flight test engineer with McDonnell Douglas, working on advanced DC-9 autopilot systems and DC-10 flight envelope expansion stress and flutter analysis.

•Tactical aircraft flown: General Dynamics F-111 Aardvark fighter/bomber, McDonnell Douglas F-15E Strike Eagle, General Dynamics / Lockheed Martin F-16 Fighting Falcon, McDonnell Douglas F-18 Hornet, Boeing B-1 Bomber, MiG-29 (Russian fighter), and Su-22 (Russian fighter/bomber). 3,000+ fighter hours. Combat time over Iraq.

•20-year Air Force career.

Statement (3/25/07):

"After 4+ years of research since retirement in 2002, I am 100% convinced that the attacks of September 11, 2001 were planned, organized, and committed by treasonous perpetrators that have infiltrated the highest levels of our government.

“We cannot let the pursuit of justice fail. Those of us in the military took an oath to ‘support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic’. Just because we have retired does not make that oath invalid, so it is not just our responsibility, it is our duty to expose the real perpetrators of 9/11 and bring them to justice, no matter how hard it is, how long it takes, or how much we have to suffer to do it.

“We owe it to those who have gone before us who executed that same oath, and who are doing the same thing in Iraq and Afghanistan right now. Those of us who joined the military and faithfully executed orders that were given us had to trust our leaders. The violation and abuse of that trust is not only heinous, but ultimately the most accurate definition of treason!"

Source:

gregoryfegel.sulekha.com...

Dick Cheney must be starting to # bricks, him and others..

this is one of those subjects that may never get the lies brushed off them as they so truly deserve. the unfortunate fact is that our "government" hides thousands of things from us just like this. anyone who thinks the truth of 9-11-2001 will be disclosed by the government is very mistaken. this is such a deceitful and treasonous attack within our own "government" that they would never be so careless as to leave any shred of evidence that couldn't easily be proven false. i very much hope that in the future we will have leaders that are not corrupt money hungry liars (like Ron Paul) and we can start to progress as a species. great work OP.

Originally posted by NewAgeMan
Dick Cheney must be starting to # bricks, him and others..

Especially when they realize Dimensional Detective has decided to start sniffing around.

Originally posted by liejunkie01
reply to post by RustyShakleford92

 

I believe that the reason that the buildings had to fall was easy. money.

Larry Silverstein, the US property magnate who owned the World Trade Centre, is heading for a fresh clash with Swiss Re, the main insurer of the twin towers.
He is set to present a formal claim for $3.5bn (£2.4bn) to the international insurance market this week, just over four months after the twin towers were destroyed by hijackers..

www.independent.co.uk /news/business/news/twin-towers-row-deepens-as-swiss-re-set-to-refuse-7bn-insurance-claims-664109.html


Do not forget that big money runs the show. The military industrial complex is in control of US policy and big money is in control of them. Planes hit buildings, buildins fall, we need more security, more security leads to more defense spending, and the owner of the buildings gets the insurance check.

This is my take anyways.

S&F op

>> Also, Building 7 had to go -- it had lot's of documents of evidence in cases of Federal Note fraud from members of the Bush family, ENRON, Carlisle and Haliburton. Cases that were dismissed because all the evidence was destroyed. There were MANY benefits to the Bush Crime family and the other Fifth Columnists on 9/11.


>> 9/11 attack did NOT justify our reprisals in my opinion. And for the majority of nonbloodthristy Americans -- there needs to be a big visual impact to scare enough people into supporting a war. More people die from collateral damage on drug busts in this nation -- so it's not about REAL threats -- it's about psychology.

Originally posted by vipertech0596
reply to post by GoldenFleece

 

In reality, Hani's flight instructors have said that they have no doubt that he had enough skill to hit the Pentagon...just as long as he did not have to worry about the takeoff.

SOURCE???

Originally posted by DimensionalDetective
Another high-level military official, who appears to have quite the credentials and background, STRONGLY contesting the O/S, and literally calling out TPTB directly, saying they were BEHIND the attacks.

He says after investigating 9 / 11 for FOUR YEARS, he is ONE HUNDRED PERCENT convinced that this was an act of the highest treason carried out by our gov...

I will let the readers draw their own conclusions on his statements and credentials.

Thoughts?

Lt. Col. Guy S. Razer, U.S. Air Force (ret)
Combat fighter Pilot; MS Aeronautical
Science,



•U.S. Air Force command fighter pilot

•Former instructor, U.S. Air Force Fighter Weapons School and NATO’s Tactical Leadership Program.

•As an Air Force weapons effects expert, was responsible for wartime tasking of most appropriate aircraft/munition for target destruction to include steel and concrete superstructures.

•Former aeronautical structures flight test engineer with McDonnell Douglas, working on advanced DC-9 autopilot systems and DC-10 flight envelope expansion stress and flutter analysis.

•Tactical aircraft flown: General Dynamics F-111 Aardvark fighter/bomber, McDonnell Douglas F-15E Strike Eagle, General Dynamics / Lockheed Martin F-16 Fighting Falcon, McDonnell Douglas F-18 Hornet, Boeing B-1 Bomber, MiG-29 (Russian fighter), and Su-22 (Russian fighter/bomber). 3,000+ fighter hours. Combat time over Iraq.

•20-year Air Force career.

Statement (3/25/07):

"After 4+ years of research since retirement in 2002, I am 100% convinced that the attacks of September 11, 2001 were planned, organized, and committed by treasonous perpetrators that have infiltrated the highest levels of our government.

“We cannot let the pursuit of justice fail. Those of us in the military took an oath to ‘support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic’. Just because we have retired does not make that oath invalid, so it is not just our responsibility, it is our duty to expose the real perpetrators of 9/11 and bring them to justice, no matter how hard it is, how long it takes, or how much we have to suffer to do it.

“We owe it to those who have gone before us who executed that same oath, and who are doing the same thing in Iraq and Afghanistan right now. Those of us who joined the military and faithfully executed orders that were given us had to trust our leaders. The violation and abuse of that trust is not only heinous, but ultimately the most accurate definition of treason!"

Source:

gregoryfegel.sulekha.com...

MiG-29 (Russian fighter), and Su-22 (Russian fighter/bomber). 4477th Red Hats out at Groom Lake with the Forgein Technologies Division based out of Nellis Air Force Base, Las Vegas, Nevada.

Look for these decals on the back of workers cars out in the Las Vegas to see who goes to the JANET airlines to fly out there daily.

Originally posted by backinblack
reply to post by trebor451

 

When it comes to 9/11 Trutherism, "credentials and background" most times do not equate to competency and logic. I could care less how many flight hours or combat missions or aeronautical engineering degrees or boxer shorts someone has if they are unable to understand the demonstrably clear events of 9/11.

Odd, you can easily check this guys credentials but you don't think he's credible??

Yet you listen to Weedwhacker who has NEVER shown that he's ever left the ground....

This is the same kind of "THINKING" that allows people to ignore a global consensus of Climatologists and listen to Priests and Weathermen so they can believe that Climate Change is not occurring.

>> Ultimately -- I think it's MORE important to see the LOGIC or proof of this former military pilot -- THAT trumps credentials in my book. But, if you are saying that "number of credentialed experts don't matter" -- that just lets everyone know that science and proof are not a factor of this person's World View.

Originally posted by RustyShakleford92
reply to post by DimensionalDetective

 

The thing I don't understand about this demolition conspiracy theory is.... why is it so important to make the buildings fall? I mean, 4 hijacked planes, people killed.... HELL one plane to the Pentagon is enough to start a war.

What is the significance of complicating the situation and trying to make the buildings fall? The government could care less about public support, if indeed, a terrorist organization just pummeled a plane into the Pentagon alone.

There are some strong theories floating around that the government was trying to eliminate something or accomplish some other goal.

The strongest of them is that they were trying to destroy computer evidence of the missing trillions of dollars at the Pentagon (See ATS or Google search). Could be that they were trying to eliminate something at the Twin Towers too.

Originally posted by vipertech0596
reply to post by GoldenFleece

 

In reality, Hani's flight instructors have said that they have no doubt that he had enough skill to hit the Pentagon...just as long as he did not have to worry about the takeoff.

Originally posted by canuckster
SOURCE???

Asked and answered, but as usual, there's a bit more to this cherry-picked quote.

The 9/11 curtain's finally falling, so the disinformationists are getting desperate...

Originally posted by GoldenFleece

Originally posted by vipertech0596
reply to post by GoldenFleece

 

In reality, Hani's flight instructors have said that they have no doubt that he had enough skill to hit the Pentagon...just as long as he did not have to worry about the takeoff.

Originally posted by canuckster
SOURCE???

Asked and answered, but as usual, there's a bit more to this cherry-picked quote.

The 9/11 curtain's finally falling, so the disinformationists are getting desperate...

DISCLAIMER: I can't confirm nor deny that what I heard is fact. This is based on something someone who might have been in the military had told me. He/she could easily have been lying, but I see no reason why. I'm passing this on because it seemed credible at the time.

It was said that, at the time, 10 years ago, the US had THREE locations in which it housed CRAY SUPERCOMPUTER CLUSTERS in geographically diverse regions. The thought being that if any catastrophe befell the country, and a Cray Supercomputer Cluster was destroyed, the other two would serve as back-up. Therefore, the "FIGHT CLUB" scenario (where they destroy a building containing all financial transactions for the country in an explosion) would not succeed unless the other two Cray Clusters were hit as well. Of course, the locations were all classified. It was said that one such Cray Supercomputer Clusters was housed in the WTC.

In theory, the attacks were to focus on the three main prongs of the United States trident of global influence: MILITARY, FINANCIAL/ECONOMIC, and POLITICAL. One target was the Pentagon (military). Another was political (The White House, --FAILED). Another was the WTC (success). Although, it can be argued that the attack on the Pentagon was as much *financial* as well as military, because the section hit housed records and personnel and compartmentalized databases concerning a missing 2.3 trillion dollars worth of defense money. ---How much do you think the life insurance policies for the people killed added up to? Most likely not even a billion (as if THAT is chump-change). Even if it did, whoever did this got a bargain.

I imagine that today, there are far more centers of financial information back-ups. Much more than the three we had back in 2001. Technology has miniaturized exponentially since then, and 9-11 happened. I would imagine we have at least two "clusters" in each state. The "banksters" want to ensure they don't lose track of their profits to be had I'm sure...

Originally posted by GhostLancer

Originally posted by Alfie1
You posted this claim before and it is utter made up bunk. I proved it to you by posting a link to a Dept of Defence financial paper from March 2002. But in true "truther" tradition why let facts get in the way of a good conspiracy ?

What I stated stands as accurate. The day before 9-11, SECDEF Rumsfeld announced at a press conference that 2.3 trillion dollars of defense spending/money was unaccounted for. The **PRECISE** location of this most likely compartmentalized information was where the Pentagon was hit. The Pentagon lost hard copies, data storage and the personnel (accountants and the like) responsible for the safe keeping of this information.

We can go round and round about released defense financial papers ad infinitum, but it does not change anything about what I posted. You are merely trying to bring smoke and mirrors tricks to try to disprove what I have said by providing a DoD financial paper. Ten papers might have been released, but it changes nothing about the facts. Who even pays attention to such papers unless you're in the DoD ---until there is a press conference by someone notable, like the SECDEF.

And, unless you're from Britain, the word is spelled "defenSe" --with an "s," just to let you know. Hey, if you're a Brit, then cheers, my apologies. If not, just trying to help out.

I posted a Dept of Defence financial report from March 2002 proving that the financial management personnel killed and injured on 9/11 were working on the audit of Army financial statements for FY 2001.

You cling to the idea that they were working on reconciling the $2.3 trillion because that is what you want, but what evidence have you for it ?

It is not even a remotely practical idea. You seem to picture the impacted area of the Pentagon as some sort of Dickensian corner shop where all records could be conveniently contained. Fact is the vast sum which had not been properly reconciled over many years arose because the DoD was operating 600 plus computer systems that were not properly communicating with each other, but it has been largely reconciled since which, surely, according to your theory, should not have been possible.