Baghdad wants U.S. to pay $1 billion for damage to city

reply to post by jackflap

I wish we could give those posters who love war the chance to tell all those people affected by it what they think. Just drop them off at a decimated town and let them speak with the people and tell them why all this had to be done. I wonder if they would still be so tough and brave about it?

Chances are no, without automatic weapons, and interlocking fields of fire, helicopter gunship support, arial drones, jet aircraft, and satellites backing them up, they likely wouldn't be so tuff or outspoken at all.

It reminds me of the dark days in America when the Unionization process was taking place, when Andrew Carnegie hired a private army of Pinkerton gunmen to break up a strike at one of the plants.

The gun battle that ensued between the strikers and the Pinkerton boys was a fierce one that led to the Pinkerton mercanaries surrendering, only to be savagely beaten by the local women for the violent attempt to kill their men.

Disarmed, bloodied and muddied the Pinkerton goons had to throw themselves on the mercy of the Sherrif to be rescued from the mob of angry violent women.

I imagine it would go pretty much like that, bullies are never tuff, they just blow hard.

Yet there is a other side to this, how does a generation of young Iraqis growing up with birth defects from depleted uranium rounds left purposefully all over their country, by an army of occupation having invaded under what truly are false and manufactured pretexts deal with the death and destruction that is the legacy of this regime change effort at colonizing through American notions of democracy which are anything but democracy when it comes to the rigged elections we stage and the puppet governments we set up that don't have support of the actual people?

It would seem to me we have some payback to look forward too, hopefully those desires can be minimized with reparations like the ones being discussed in the article of the opening piece.

What doesn't help though is those dysfunctional types who make the childesh comments that favor indiscriminate killing of anyone who does live there, is Arab, is Muslim or doesn't otherwise show appreciation for our murderous and destructice attempts to impose corporate hedgmony over a nations resources.

I wonder if such people really are too stupid to understand by painting a target on everyone's back over there, they are in fact just encouraging those people to do the same with everyone over here.

Hard to believe such people imagine they are keeping us safer through their efforts.

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler

What doesn't help though is those dysfunctional types who make the childesh comments that favor indiscriminate killing of anyone who does live there, is Arab, is Muslim or doesn't otherwise show appreciation for our murderous and destructice attempts to impose corporate hedgmony over a nations resources. I wonder if such people really are too stupid to understand by painting a target on everyone's back over there, they are in fact just encouraging those people to do the same with everyone over here. Hard to believe such people imagine they are keeping us safer through their efforts.

I believe it has a lot to do with the might makes right mentality. A lot of times there are anger issues with people that display themselves in various ways. Some people just plain refuse to see the truth and will not entertain it for a moment because that would alter their existence in a way that would make them question their entire reality. So they dare not look.

I believe our mutual good friend Josephus touched on this in one of his recent posts. I believe they are actually confused as to why they take the stance they take. For now though, they'll just keep getting away with murder.

I never look back 'cause I don't even want to, and I don't need to, Because I'm getting away with murder

Originally posted by FarArcher
Anyone in the construction business knows that when you have a crap site to start with, first you have to perform sufficient demolition of the site before you're free to construct improved structures.

I think Baghdad should pay us a billion or so for the deconstruction costs that only improved the city.

Sort of an urban renewal phase one fee.

the problem with a fools logic is you have to go down to there level to debate with them and when you do they beat you with experience.
using your very limited logic how would you like the Chinese to come over and bomb America into the stone age, killing your friends and family, raping your sisters, torturing your parents, Illegally occupying your land. Then charging you trilions of dollars for repair.
A flippant comment, but far less so than your own. Use your head.

kx

Originally posted by beezzer
Look, we bombed the snot out of Berlin and paid. We bombed the snot out of Tokyo, Hiroshima, Nagasaki, and paid. I'm not saying we shouldn't pay. But the whining from there?
We were at war, people. The U.S. Armys' job is to kill people and break things. We did a damned good job of it in my humble opinion. So sure, build it back up, put in a Starbucks for all I care.

Just make sure there is nobody else that wants to shoot at us.

Or we will break it, AGAIN!!!!

no one in iraq wanted to shoot you in the first place until you illegally occupied there country. heck if you came over here and tried to occupy my country i would shoot you and rightly so. What makes you think you done a good job nearly 2 million civilians dead in two illegal wars. Increased terror activity and two countries in tatters. Please tell me what you done good realy im scratching my head here...;

kx

reply to post by purplemer


Interestingly enough there is yet another side to the absurdity of the statements previously made by Fararcher, in that significant portions of Iraq date back to antiquity and even before.

Many and not just Iraqis, Arabs or Muslims see these buildings and monuments as part of the world's cultural legacy and as such are priceless.

I think it's suffice to say that buildings that stand for thousands of years were not only masterfully built and laid out, but are made of just a bit better quality than your typical prefabricated home of aluminum siding, pressed wood, and Chinese drywall.

I can appreciate some posters apparent need to bait, inflame and be provocative, yet the ignorance they sometimes show in that process truly is astounding.

Much of what the Iraqis are asking for this money has to do with restoring the damage from heavy vehicular traffic in culturally sensitive ancient areas.

Yet another side to the coin is how many of these buildings survived for thousands of years, but faired there worse during a decade of American occupation.

Makes you wonder.

We're sorry Iraq.

The United States did not ratify the Hague's ""The Convention for the Protection of Cultural Property in the Event of Armed Conflict"" Treaty until late 2008.

We have studied the damage and came to the conclusion that all damage was done prior to Senate approval of that Treaty. We're sorry for the incovenience this may have caused.

They shouldn't have ran with that "were not accepting US dollars for oil anymore" rhetoric which required their cities to be leveled and people to be killed.

Anyone notice Saudi Arabia stopped their "we're no longer accepting US dollars for oil and starting the Gulf Monetary Union" talk?? Obama hooked them up with a Victory Mosque, paid off all their debts, is giving them $60 BILLION in new military hardware. Iraq coulda been enjoying those beanies.

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
I can confirm you are hopelessly trying to detract from the actual point of the thread, the mounting costs of the war financially and otherwise.

Well, you were the one thinking that the good citizens of Baghdad were tooling around on yaks.

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
I can even confirm that many government officials consider the military on the ground personnel to be incompetent which is why they hire private security contractors like XE to see to their own actual security.

Then confirm it.

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
Can't blame them, as those who claim to serve us in uniform here at least come across like a bunch of clowns.

Awwww....namecalling. How cute.

Thanks for posting.

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
Yeah I would say you are wound up.

By the way do you really imagine that you are posting off topic post after off topic post, and ad-hominin attack after ad-hominin attack because I don't bother you?

Wound up? Haven't broken a sweat or lost a minute of sleep.

And I just like to post because I have a thing about getting in the last word.

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
A discussion that becomes very distburbing when in fact we can see the pyscological damage it has done to a number of posters organized into a pro-war, pro-military industrial complex rat pack, who attempt to glorify and make light of the killing of innocent men women and children.

Hmm....for someone that likes to brag about being a student of the military, you don't have a clue about what goes on. You post again and again about the military intentionally killing innocent men, women and children, but always seem to forget about the insurgents. You know, the ones that are fighting against the US by setting off a car bomb in a crowded market place to murder innocent women and children.

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
The difference between you and me my friend, is you hate, and I pity, most of all people like you.

Nah, no hate going on here at all. And you can keep the pity, too.

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
Though you won't be able to take much solace in it, and though the damage done to corrupted minds and souls can never be undone, I do promise you I will continue to work tirelessly to bring down the Shadow Government that did this to you.

Do you have the theme to "Mission: Impossible" or "Secret Agent Man" going thru your head while you battle the "Shadow Government"?

Help is just a phonecall away!

reply to post by jerico65

Well, you were the one thinking that the good citizens of Baghdad were tooling around on yaks.

Hey here is a wonderful idea, why don't you try to find a sentence where I said Yak, and the citizens of Baghdad riding them. I think when you employ some reading comprehension instead of assumption for the purpose of making a juvenille argument to derail a thread you might actually discover I said no such thing.

Which I explained about 4 pages of off topic intellectually devoid forum gang posts ago.

reply to post by signal2noise

Hmm....for someone that likes to brag about being a student of the military, you don't have a clue about what goes on. You post again and again about the military intentionally killing innocent men, women and children, but always seem to forget about the insurgents. You know, the ones that are fighting against the US by setting off a car bomb in a crowded market place to murder innocent women and children.

My friend just because you are capable of being brainwashed by a corrupt government's word games doesn't mean I can.

Go to someone elses country, start dropping bombs, and shooting them and yeah they are likely to kill you in the hopes you will get the hint you aren't welcome as a murdering lunatic criminal in their country.

You can make up what ever word you want to call such people, and it still won't make those who go to foreign countries to murder, rape, steal and pillage anything but murderers, rapists, and pilagers, I don't care what medal they stick on you or what pretty uniform they put on you, or what law they pass that claims it's legal.

Obviously neither do the people who actually live there, who will do what ever it takes to kill such sorry excuses for human beings.

By the way spies and special forces are trained to make improvised weapons out of anything, why exactly is it ok for them to do that, but not people defending their own homes against foreign invaders?

Further I can assure you that come the day any military including the U.S. governments takes to the streets of Miami, I will improvise anything I can to get rid of them too.

I would imagine my neighbors who don't want to be murdered, raped, or robbed by them, would call me a hero and not an insurgent.

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
My friend just because you are capable of being brainwashed by a corrupt government's word games doesn't mean I can.

Go to someone elses country, start dropping bombs, and shooting them and yeah they are likely to kill you in the hopes you will get the hint you aren't welcome as a murdering lunatic criminal in their country.

You can make up what ever word you want to call such people, and it still won't make those who go to foreign countries to murder, rape, steal and pillage anything but murderers, rapists, and pilagers, I don't care what medal they stick on you or what pretty uniform they put on you, or what law they pass that claims it's legal.

Obviously neither do the people who actually live there, who will do what ever it takes to kill such sorry excuses for human beings.

By the way spies and special forces are trained to make improvised weapons out of anything, why exactly is it ok for them to do that, but not people defending their own homes against foreign invaders?

Further I can assure you that come the day any military including the U.S. governments takes to the streets of Miami, I will improvise anything I can to get rid of them too.

I would imagine my neighbors who don't want to be murdered, raped, or robbed by them, would call me a hero and not an insurgent.

So, an insurgent (or whatever you want to call them) decides to set off a car bomb in a crowded marketplace and murder women and children. To you, that's a "freedom fighter" striking back against the hated US Military?

Is that going to drive away the horrible "US Occupation"? By murdering your own people?

Please, explain that line of thinking. Enquiring minds want to know.

reply to post by signal2noise

So, an insurgent (or whatever you want to call them) decides to set off a car bomb in a crowded marketplace and murder women and children. To you, that's a "freedom fighter" striking back against the hated US Military? Is that going to drive away the horrible "US Occupation"? By murdering your own people?

Do you think that these insurgents would be committing these acts if we weren't there? Do you think you would hear about it on the news and immediately feel that the US should be there stopping that kind of nonsense? Do you think you would even give it a second thought? Do you feel that stopping those kinds of things are worthy of the billions of dollars being spent every day? How do you know that they are murdering their own people? Who is it that they pledge their allegiance to and care about?

Truth is. there are far worse things going on elsewhere and nothing is being done about it because they aren't chock full of resources. There is a reason we were lied to. There is a reason all of our assets were diverted to Iraq instead of Afghanistan where the evil doers supposedly came from. Even though they were all Saudi.

Mount up gentlemen it's time to protect old apple pie and Chevrolet. Let's go to Afghanistan. No wait, let's go to Iraq too. No wait, Iran has lots of oil. I mean Iran is making nukes and we conveniently have them surrounded all of a sudden.

reply to post by jackflap


I think it's safe to say tweedle dumb and tweedle dumber aren't really capable of piecing 2 + 2 together even if you drew them a chart.

It was likely heck on the rifle range trying to teach them to shoot at the targets, as they kept looking up and saying "that thing over there seargant that one, that one?

Of course if it's the French Resistance killing some fellow French collaborating with the Nazis that's A Ok! A heroic struggle, collateral damage, had to be done, blah, blah.

But when we are the Nazis, invading a nation on the flimsiest of pretext for resources, our perhaps foolishly brave, but not incredibly smart soldiers can't seem to tell what time of day even with a Rolex.

Go figure.

I think they are fixated on Yaks because that's pretty much all they know how to do, in that mindless way those with a limited point of focus, and easily brainwashed do.

To tell you the truth I think they were upset there weren't any Yaks in Baghdad, lonely soldiers love their companions.

Great post.

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler

My apologies. The graveyards is a manner of speaking, and since most actions were running gun battles initially, or later developed into them, no one bothered with the actual burying thing.

Not very Christian to be sure, but usually in those moments, I wasn't in a very Christian frame of mind. I was more in the deconstruction business that coincidentally was coupled with pest control.

As far as posting incriminating evidence that your nebulous blackops mysterious dark matter folks would be interested in - all that stuff is already documented in after-action reports.

Now with your tireless vigil against all these illuminati, the dark shadow powers, the international conspiracies, the Roman protocol, and such things as we may not be able to adequately describe in actual words, you be sure to eat right, drink lots of water, and try to get some sleep.

Some are on the wall as we speak.

Presidents Wall's response...(if I was)



Id rather give the same money to he CIA and have them deal with it... And I would get more mileage out the dollars...

let me see...
CIA sub force...
update MK Ultra since new targets volunteered themselves

I still think Iraq would do better as a territory...At least till it got back on its feet...Then I could see rebuilding after all its ours otherwise I see no point in it

reply to post by FarArcher

My apologies. The graveyards is a manner of speaking, and since most actions were running gun battles initially, or later developed into them, no one bothered with the actual burying thing.

So in other words people started shooting at you, you started running, but you like to tell the girls some people likely got killed.

One of them wasn't Pat Tillman by any chance? (oh let me make sure everyone knows I know that happened in Afghanistan before anyone gets confuzzled again for 6 more pages)

Anyway this is what usually happens to armies that can't actually hold on to terrain and pay for the same piece of real estate over and over again in blood.

This typically happens most in nations who don't want to be occupied, where bases are then resuplied and reinforced by air, to basicall create a sitting duck target to draw off enemy forces from the main resource areas that the invasion was 'staged' to secure.

Not very Christian to be sure, but usually in those moments, I wasn't in a very Christian frame of mind. I was more in the deconstruction business that coincidentally was coupled with pest control.

Actually since what limited genuine support there is for the war outside of the military industrial complex is as a thinly veiled religious crusade (hence the daily brief for Bush prepared by the Pentagon with Bible Quotations, rifle scopes with Biblical Passages inscribed on them, Bush again claimng God told him to invade Iraq in the Rose Garden, Bibles that had to be later burned that some idiot Chaplian in Afghanistan told troops they should hand out even though the Afghani Constitution (contract with the powers that be) of their puppet government we installed outlaws proselytizing by any religion, etc.) most people recognize Christians killing non-Christians to steal other indigenous people's lands and resources is a very Christian thing to do!

As far as posting incriminating evidence that your nebulous blackops mysterious dark matter folks would be interested in - all that stuff is already documented in after-action reports.

Don't worry I was feeling pretty secure Audey Murphy you are not.

Now with your tireless vigil against all these illuminati, the dark shadow powers, the international conspiracies, the Roman protocol, and such things as we may not be able to adequately describe in actual words, you be sure to eat right, drink lots of water, and try to get some sleep.

Hey thanks, I sure do, because a well rested, fed, and hydrated person usually doesn't have to run from things like their own statements. I have to call my travel agent off and tell them the graveyard tour is off I guess huh?

Some are on the wall as we speak.

I trust you would be running from them too if they said boo.

Originally posted by jackflap
Do you think that these insurgents would be committing these acts if we weren't there?

I say again, how is blowing up your own innocent women and children in a marketplace with a car bomb "fighting against the illegal invasion?"

Originally posted by jackflap
How do you know that they are murdering their own people?

Geez, whiz, I don't know. Maybe because I saw it with my own eyes. I was there. Were you?

Originally posted by jackflap
Truth is. there are far worse things going on elsewhere and nothing is being done about it because they aren't chock full of resources.

I'm still pissed off we didn't go into Rwanda.

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler

Now Proto, you 'done went' and demonstrated you lack of knowledge yet again! Time and again I'm compelled to take you to school, but only because I like you. I like your level of knowledge on so many topics, so as an act of compassion, I'll once again do you a favor and school you on this.

You sit right there, son, and I'll try to 'learn' you something.

Ever see a dogfight? Ever see a dog remain motionless in a fight? Of course you haven't!

The term "running gunbattle" has nothing to do with showing cowardice. It's all about maneuver.

A running gunbattle is where neither side has a fixed, fortified position. Often enough, they occur in meeting engagements. You have fire and maneuver, working the angles of fire, flanking, counter-flanking attacks, and if terrain allows, you can actually draw them into a hasty kill box.

All part of what Clausewitz called, "freedom of movement."

Holding territory is eighteenth century. Holding terrain is manpower inefficient. Much better to deny the enemy a terrain by hitting him at choke points, water holes, and natural lines of approach through rapid traverse and movement.

Holding terrain, especially a fixed position is begging for casualties. It's suicidal. Alesia and the Alamo were fixed positions.

I've heard someone repeat that same thing about paying for territory twice, and come to find out, they thought they were quoting Patton from the movie. Actually Patton was replying to a suggestion that he pull back and reorganize. Patton never pulled back, never held terrain, and never stopped his forward movement, and that was a standing order of his.

So if you're going to quote Patton, don't use that one. That's not what he meant.

The bases you referred to being resupplied by air? Those too, take away your most valuable military status - that of freedom of movement.

I have no idea as to your vague references to Ranger Pat Tillman or Audie Murphy.

I too, was decorated for valor - not the Congressional, and all my wounds were in the front.

And you?

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
I think it's safe to say tweedle dumb and tweedle dumber aren't really capable of piecing 2 + 2 together even if you drew them a chart.

I think it's safe to say that you have absolutely no clue about the military, even though you claim to be studying it. Give it up and stick with trying to draw that cartoon character.

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
It was likely heck on the rifle range trying to teach them to shoot at the targets, as they kept looking up and saying "that thing over there seargant that one, that one?

Really? Even been on a military rifle range? Wait, I know the answer to that question. It's "no". Feel free to file that under, "Proto doesn't know what he's talking about."

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
Of course if it's the French Resistance killing some fellow French collaborating with the Nazis that's A Ok! A heroic struggle, collateral damage, had to be done, blah, blah.

So, insurgents murdering civilians is OK in your books. Wow, that's nice.

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
But when we are the Nazis, invading a nation on the flimsiest of pretext for resources, our perhaps foolishly brave, but not incredibly smart soldiers can't seem to tell what time of day even with a Rolex.

Ah, yes, the "Stupid American Soldiers". Whatever, Craftsman.

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
I think they are fixated on Yaks because that's pretty much all they know how to do, in that mindless way those with a limited point of focus, and easily brainwashed do.

I like your yak comment because I think it's funny. And wow, the ol' "they're brainwashed!" line. Lame. Try again.

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
To tell you the truth I think they were upset there weren't any Yaks in Baghdad, lonely soldiers love their companions.

Sorry, Craftsman. That's the Afghanis and "Man Love Thursday".

When I got lonely, I just had your mom.

reply to post by signal2noise

I say again, how is blowing up your own innocent women and children in a marketplace with a car bomb "fighting against the illegal invasion?"

Glad to see you finally admitting the invasion(s) were illegal. There might be some hope for you!


reply to post by FarArcher

Time and again I'm compelled to take you to school, but only because I like you.

As the most starred poster on ATS, it's pretty darn safe to say Proto is beloved by many if not all!

In part no doubt because Proto wasn't allowed in school, I kid you not I was such a rebel by the time I was 14, I managed to even get kicked out of Reform School. It took the FBI to break my grip on the near by town, and then through the local Congressman, a tutor from Langley was arranged (yes that Langley) where a giant of a man with a heavy Russian accent spent a good bit of time discussing strategy with me, to determine whether Proto would get to live, or Proto would get to die!

Natuarlly because Proto is loved by all it worked out...

The rest as they say is history.


reply to post by jerico65

When I got lonely, I just had your mom.

Dude really, you are that fond of 80 year old women in nursing homes, or are you that hard up?

I guess we know what genre of pornstar you are now.

Honestly at 17 I was knocking back Playboy Centerfolds two at a time in the Hollywood Hills.

I really feel like you have made some poor life choices my friend.

reply to post by signal2noise

I say again, how is blowing up your own innocent women and children in a marketplace with a car bomb "fighting against the illegal invasion?"

I say again, how do you know they were their own innocent women and children? How do you know who they pledge their allegiance to and who do they care about? Did these people consider the victims their own?

No, that will not thwart the occupation in the least. I served during the first gulf war. Not the second.

Are you out of the service now or are you still in?