Baghdad wants U.S. to pay $1 billion for damage to city

Originally posted by Aggie Man

Originally posted by signal2noise

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
Sorry my friend, I was studying military history and doctrine while you were just a gleam in someone's eye.

Wow, studying it, huh? That's fantasitc. Too bad you really don't seem to have a grip about the military. Guess all that studying has gone to waste.

Trust me, actually being in combat is a lot different than studying it. Not that you'll ever find out.

This, apparently coming from someone who HAS served...are you not just as biased?

Nah, not biased at all. I'm just arrogant.

But, regardless, it's the truth. You can study all you want about the military, have every single one of your relatives serve, played every version of COD, but unless you actually join and serve yourself, it's all just theory.

Originally posted by FreakyDeaky1
Yes, we bombed their country to hell and back... under false pretenses. Iraq was formerly a country were there was no terrorism (they killed terrorists and ruled them with an iron fist), now, it is the breeding ground for them.

Ruled with an iron fist? You mean like Saddam throwing people into woodchippers, off the roofs of buildings, his sons raping women they kidnapped off the street and torturing the Iraqi soccer team when the lost a match?

reply to post by jackflap

Really? They figured out who killed who?

Did they dig the bullets out of the bodies and determine the caliber? I noted when Baghdad was bombed back during the Iraqi occupation of Kuwait, the strongest, most concentrated anti-aircraft fire to date was fired up into the night sky.

Later reports of all the civilians the Americans killed during the bombing.

No one seemed to recall that all that ordinance going up, was also going to come down somewhere.

One other little thing. When "insurgents" or non-uniformed combatants are killed, they're thrown over into the civilian pile and counted.

Which really skews the counts. But what can you do?

The SOB's dress in civilian clothes, and when killed are tossed by their buddies into the civilian pile. This inflates the civilian numbers drastically, and so I don't really put much faith in those counts.

Originally posted by signal2noise

Trust me, actually being in combat is a lot different than studying it. Not that you'll ever find out.

It's not whether one poster or another was in combat or not, it's why the ones who were in combat were in combat, whether they were lied to and what was the reason for the lies that's important or pertinent to the topic in question.

reply to post by Thepreye

If you join the military, truth is, you will never get a damned thing done if you're waiting on a unanimous decision.

Truth is, war pigs and pacifists fall on the ends of the Bell Curve.

As it should be.

reply to post by signal2noise

Wow, studying it, huh? That's fantasitc. Too bad you really don't seem to have a grip about the military. Guess all that studying has gone to waste.

Says the anonymous poster without credentials who's over realiance on the negative certainly does not amount to anything in the way of a positive or verifiable statement.

In fact assumptions like that, based on nothing but hubris and wishful thinking, tend to display the diminished capacity of those who go off half cocked after being wound up by those with superior tactics and strategies.

Let's see who are you responding to again? Oh me, so at least we know who definately knows how to push buttons!



reply to post by FarArcher


And now a word from tweedle dumber!

Well Proto, as anyone knows, there's a big difference between studying fornicating and doing it.

Who you guys is actually screwing is yourselves. While you glorify the exploits of going after peasants with AK-47's, missing and hitting everything but the peasant with the AK-47's the real bad guys, the people in the Shadow Government and their henchmen are fought by people like...proto!

So you keep chasing the sheep herders to make the world safe from sheep herders, and I will chase the sheeple herders, the real enemy.

Amazingly despite having done it again and again, you rambo types never seem to realize you get left out to dry by the same corporate and political interests again and again, ultimately shed your own blood for nothing, and kill innocent men women and children in the pursuit of some pride and glory offered to the few, the proud, the vein and the utterly mentally deficient and stupid through the armed forces.

Your little league attempts at combat, intrique and making the world safe for no one but the Shadow Government are just that, little league attempts conducted by people with inferior reasoning capabilities and poor intelligence gathering skills.

Funny while you might think of the chain of command, I get pictures of a chain that involves a daisy.

Seems about your speed.

Don't quit your day job in the little leagues!

Originally posted by Thepreye

Originally posted by signal2noise

Trust me, actually being in combat is a lot different than studying it. Not that you'll ever find out.

It's not whether one poster or another was in combat or not, it's why the ones who were in combat were in combat, whether they were lied to and what was the reason for the lies that's important or pertinent to the topic in question.

Listening to the skewered macho mentality of guys who seem naked without a gun in their hand is funny.

Privates would have you believe they understand wars like a General, and corporals would have you believe they understand war like the Master politicians who manufacture the pretexts, and seargents would have you believe they are as smart as the oligarchs in the shadow government, that they aren't even intelligent enough to find evidence of let alone believe exists, who ultimately plan all these things out.

They are in fact so insecure with the state of ignorance they exist in, they have to cling to the back ends of threads in little coordinated packs, just to try to make it seem anyone but the mentally deficient agree with their peculiar brand of mental retardation.

With the innocent blood on their hands, I can see why they would desperately like to deny that they are nothing but lowly pawns in a game they can't even begin to understand, as they try to make that much bigger game only about the limited tactics they are instructed to employ on the battlefield.

It's nothing but a failed attempt to glorify killing.

Pitiful is what it is.

Originally posted by FarArcher
reply to post by Thepreye

 

If you join the military, truth is, you will never get a damned thing done if you're waiting on a unanimous decision.

Truth is, war pigs and pacifists fall on the ends of the Bell Curve.

As it should be.

I'm far from a pacifist, I'm just against imperialist wars or wars fought for lies and enrichment of individuals or wars for the punishment of individuals where thousands upon thousands of innocent men, women and children are slaughtered as a mere side issue to the punishment.

reply to post by FarArcher


You may be right those numbers are probably not too accurate.

Soldier's Chilling Testimony Fuels Demonstrations Against Iraq War

On the eve of large anti-war demonstrations in Washington and London, Hart Viges has told how indiscriminate fire from US troops is likely to have killed an untold number of Iraqi civilians. Mr Viges, 29, said he was still haunted by the memories of what he experienced and urged President George Bush to withdraw US troops from Iraq. "I don't know how many innocents I killed with my mortar rounds," Mr Viges, who served with the 82nd Airborne Division, said during a presentation this week at American University in Washington. "In Baghdad, I had days that I don't want to remember. I try to forget," he added The rare insight into the chaos of the combat ­ including an order to open fire on all taxis in the city of Samawa because it was believed Iraqi forces were using them for transport ­ comes as US support for the war in Iraq slumps to an all-time low. Polls suggest that 60 per cent now believe the war was wrong. Mr Bush's personal approval ratings are also at a record low.

www.commondreams.org...

Court Hears of U.S. Unit Killing Afghan Civilians at Random

JOINT BASE LEWIS-MCCHORD, Wash. — Members of an American Army unit consumed with drug use randomly chose Afghan civilians to kill and then failed to report the abuses out of fear they would suffer retaliation from their commander, according to testimony in military court here on Monday. The testimony, in a hearing to determine whether one of those soldiers, Specialist Jeremy N. Morlock, would face a court-martial and a possible death sentence, came the same day that a videotape in the case was leaked showing Specialist Morlock talking to investigators about the killings in gruesome detail with no apparent emotion.

www.nytimes.com...

US soldiers 'killed Afghan civilians for sport and collected fingers as trophies'

Soldiers face charges over secret 'kill team' which allegedly murdered at random and collected fingers as trophies of war

Twelve American soldiers face charges over a secret "kill team" that allegedly blew up and shot Afghan civilians at random and collected their fingers as trophies. Five of the soldiers are charged with murdering three Afghan men who were allegedly killed for sport in separate attacks this year. Seven others are accused of covering up the killings and assaulting a recruit who exposed the murders when he reported other abuses, including members of the unit smoking hashish stolen from civilians. In one of the most serious accusations of war crimes to emerge from the Afghan conflict, the killings are alleged to have been carried out by members of a Stryker infantry brigade based in Kandahar province in southern Afghanistan.

www.guardian.co.uk...

Murtha: Marines Murdered 15 Unarmed Iraqi Civilians

A Pentagon probe into the death of Iraqi civilians last November in the Iraqi city of Haditha will show that U.S. Marines “killed innocent civilians in cold blood,” a U.S. lawmaker said Wednesday. From the beginning, Iraqis in the town of Haditha said U.S. Marines deliberately killed 15 unarmed Iraqi civilians, including seven women and three children. One young Iraqi girl said the Marines killed six members of her family, including her parents. “The Americans came into the room where my father was praying,” she said, “and shot him.”

www.outsidethebeltway.com...

But then again who knows?

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
In reality there is seldom if ever an excuse for it, and when it comes to people who live 11,000 miles away and at best have a few small arms......

A few small arms? Well, since you're a student of military tactics, techniques and procedure, maybe you could clear this up.

I heard that the Iraqi military did have some anti-tank weapons, perhaps some recoilless rifles that were yak-mounted. Could you confirm this?

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
[Says the anonymous poster without credentials who's over realiance on the negative certainly does not amount to anything in the way of a positive or verifiable statement.

Says Proto, the student of the military, yet has never served a single day.

You can believe me or not. I. Don't. Care.

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
In fact assumptions like that, based on nothing but hubris and wishful thinking, tend to display the diminished capacity of those who go off half cocked after being wound up by those with superior tactics and strategies.

Wound up? Far from it. Words and statements by very small men like you fail to bother me in the least. It's just long-winded smack coming from your fourth point of contact. You fit in quite well with the other losers that squawk the same thing here on ATS.

Keep studying, tho. You're doing a great job!

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
Who you guys is actually screwing is yourselves. While you glorify the exploits of going after peasants with AK-47's, missing and hitting everything but the peasant with the AK-47's the real bad guys, the people in the Shadow Government and their henchmen are fought by people like...proto!

You? That's grand. You couldn't lead a spirited charge on a whorehouse on five dollar BJ night. Try again. You're a no-go at this station.

Hey, don't go ninja-ing anyone that doesn't need ninja-ing. What a pathetic joke.

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler

Sooooo, you're one of the guys who goes after the "Shadow Government?"

Is that like "shadow people," but with titles? Sounds like you're a really vaporous type of guy fighting shadows and dark places, and nefarious groups of mysterious controllers.

The difference between you and me? I can show you my graveyard.

And I'm on pins and needles, shaking like a dog ****ting a peach pit in anticipation of your nebulous corporate types who are either hanging me out to dry, or lying to me and leaving me behind. Oh crap. Maybe now I'm a corporate type. Does "capitalist" count?

Now don't you go worrying about me, Proto, the sensitive, nurturing kind man you are. I've been tried on occasion, and the other fellers outreached themselves.

But thank you for your concerns. I'll be thinking kindly of you for that.

We simply engaged in pest control in Baghdad, and like any other pest control outfit, sometimes you have to remove some structural items to get to the pests.

And the pest control outfits don't pay for the required deconstruction.

Nor should we.

After all, fair is only fair.

Personally, I say Go Hurricanes! Don't U?

will that be paper or plastic?

Originally posted by jerico65

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
In reality there is seldom if ever an excuse for it, and when it comes to people who live 11,000 miles away and at best have a few small arms......

A few small arms? Well, since you're a student of military tactics, techniques and procedure, maybe you could clear this up.

I heard that the Iraqi military did have some anti-tank weapons, perhaps some recoilless rifles that were yak-mounted. Could you confirm this?

I can confirm you are hopelessly trying to detract from the actual point of the thread, the mounting costs of the war financially and otherwise.

I can confirm it's a pretty serious situation by the number of pro-war, pro-military/security complex posters following along on this thread, and the type of posts that they respond too, and present, that they know they don't actually have any good reasons for invading a nation based on a fraudelent pretext, for killing hundreds of thousands of innocent civilians, for destroying the infrastructure in the process, just so the American taxpayer can over pay a handful of American corporations inflated prices to rebuild it.

I can even confirm that many government officials consider the military on the ground personnel to be incompetent which is why they hire private security contractors like XE to see to their own actual security.

Can't blame them, as those who claim to serve us in uniform here at least come across like a bunch of clowns.

Thanks for posting.

reply to post by FarArcher

Sooooo, you're one of the guys who goes after the "Shadow Government?"

Is that like "shadow people," but with titles? Sounds like you're a really vaporous type of guy fighting shadows and dark places, and nefarious groups of mysterious controllers.

The difference between you and me? I can show you my graveyard.

You funny, yeah, why don't you show me your graveyard, you would be surprised what some people are documenting these days.

Speaking of incriminating things, you go right ahead and feel free to indulge yourself, and share with us what ever you want too.

Let it all out, that's it now.

Some of us though will be talking about the out of control government and corporations that have conspired to turn the United States military into a mercanary force to fight wars for oil and opium and minerals, based on fraudelent pretexts and in an effort to defraud and sully the American people.

Since that, is the number one threat to the Nation and not the poor people of Iraq and Afghanistan.

Thanks for posting.

reply to post by signal2noise

Wound up? Far from it. Words and statements by very small men like you fail to bother me in the least. It's just long-winded smack coming from your fourth point of contact. You fit in quite well with the other losers that squawk the same thing here on ATS.

Yeah I would say you are wound up.

By the way do you really imagine that you are posting off topic post after off topic post, and ad-hominin attack after ad-hominin attack because I don't bother you?



Do you understand that while you do that, the people not running with the little clique that singles out posters to do that, actually can see, that no, you have nothing of any intellectual quality to add to the discussion.

A discussion about the waste of money in fighting wars based on fraudelent pretexts with vague goals where none are ever even met.

A discussion that centers on the damage to the nations who endure those unwarranted invasions, the people who needlessly die in them, and the cost to American financially and morally.

A discussion that becomes very distburbing when in fact we can see the pyscological damage it has done to a number of posters organized into a pro-war, pro-military industrial complex rat pack, who attempt to glorify and make light of the killing of innocent men women and children.

Someone's father, someone's mother, someone's child, with those of us who are sane, knowing that this dysfunction is a byproduct of a corrupt government and corporate body who lied as to why fighting these wars was necessary.

The difference between you and me my friend, is you hate, and I pity, most of all people like you.

Though you won't be able to take much solace in it, and though the damage done to corrupted minds and souls can never be undone, I do promise you I will continue to work tirelessly to bring down the Shadow Government that did this to you.

Hang in there and think about some therapy.

Thanks.

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler

Do you understand that while you do that, the people not running with the little clique that singles out posters to do that, actually can see, that no, you have nothing of any intellectual quality to add to the discussion.

Man, if I had the ability to applaud you for that I would. Have you ever seen such nonsense? I started to think that we had a group of twelve year old kids swarming this thread. Have you ever gone to a new thread that has been starred and flagged to the stratosphere and response after response says things like wow great thread or thanks for this thread or great job on this? With nothing of any intellectual value at all. When you try to add some, you get no where. I'm done ranting about this little band of annoying children who seem to plague certain topics.

The Iraq war: lies exposed, what now?

Iraq's connection with al-Qaida -- a lie, Iraq's purchase of uranium from Niger -- a lie, mobile biological weapons programme - a lie. Three lies justifying the war on Iraq in 2003. The source of the last lie, which was used by Colin Powell in his dramatic presentation at the UN, was Rafid al-Janabi (Curveball). He told the British Guardian newspaper (16 February): "I had the chance to fabricate something to topple the regime". This single source, whose unreliability the CIA warned the American government about, became the backbone of the case for war. What now? Here is Iraq, the country of my birth, riven by sectarianism and terrorism with millions of widows, fatherless children, and war-disabled, trying to cope with their blighted lives caused by an illegal war based on lies. And what will the future hold for children that are born and yet to be born with birth defects, because of the use of depleted uranium ammunition?

www.opednews.com...

I wish we could give those posters who love war the chance to tell all those people affected by it what they think. Just drop them off at a decimated town and let them speak with the people and tell them why all this had to be done. I wonder if they would still be so tough and brave about it?

reply to post by jackflap


This is important to take a look at my friend.

Really? I thought. How do we know if those are real people? Twitter has to be the easiest thing to fake and to automate with retweets and 180 characrer max sentences. To the extent that the propaganda technique known as "Bandwagon" is an effective form of persuasion, which it definitely is, the ability for a few people to infiltrate a blog or social media site and appear to be many people, all taking one position in a debate, all agreeing, for example, that so and so is not credible, or a crook, is an incredibly powerful weapon.

How many times have you seen a diary get posted that reports some revelatory yet unfavorable tidbit about someone only to see a swarm of commenters arrive who hijack the thread, distract with a bunch of irrelevant nonsense, start throwing unsubstantiated accusations and ad hominem attacks to where before you know it, everyone's pretty much forgotten what the diary said in the first place.

Some times diaries deserve to be swarmed. But what if a diary is swarmed and it's really just one asshole working for a law firm that represents the oil company your diary was attacking?

www.dailykos.com...:-The-HB-Gary-Email-That-Should-Concern-Us-All

The Defense Department thanks to a military contractor HB Gary now have software for this.

It's amazing to think a thread like this off the board results in what are basically crap off topic posts and ad-hominen attacks get 6 stars as quickly as they are posted and you can refresh the page.

Are we to believe that six people who really agree with these kinds of posts and posters are literally glued to these threads waiting for such a post, or are we dealing with packs who log on and off at the same time, and or using computer software to make bad arguments and poor social skills seem more popular than they are?

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler


Persona Management Software! Brought to us by the Department of the Air Force
Office: Air Mobility Command. Wonderful.

I'm sorry to say then that a few people here will undoubtedly be taken off their previous payroll. They can have all the posters they want now. Sorry guys but you all really aren't that significant. I hope you feel cheap about pimping yourselves out now.

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler


It's almost as if Twitter was designed with this software in mind, they fit like a well manicured hand in a bespoke velvet glove, hmm.

Bandwagons can be made very uncomfortable places, especially when they're occupied by small minded nationalistic right whinger types covered with the turds that they drop.