On Masonic Charity. The world's largest non religious charity scam. On the Shriners and Jesters.

Originally posted by Mason mike

I looked back at some of your comments, it would seem that you need a scapegoat to blame things on and freemasonry seems to fit that nicely. At least you did find the correct thread to spread baseless accusations. Proof no longer required for condemnation, only a few loose rumors will be fine. hang 'em high boys.

A "scapegoat" is essentially a person whom all the troubles of the world or of a society or tribe are blamed upon. The Neomarxist analysis of the problems of the world are that they are fundamentally economic and due to the existence of the "International Dictatorship of Capitalism," however religion is part of the substructure of society which generally tends to be "conservative" and produces a submissive, servile uncritical slave who often equates "goodness" with submission to authority.

The Freemasons are just another gang of religious Capitalists; I would not suggest that the problems of the world are caused by Freemasons, they are simply "part" of the problem and by no means the most "malevolent" of the world's many religious cults, though economically they tend to be quite powerful, particularly in the UK

With regards to your statement "spread baseless accusations. Proof no longer required for condemnation, only a few loose rumors will be fine. hang 'em high boys" contradiction is a poor substitute for intelligent argument; any drunk at a bus stop or a football hooligan can "contradict" a philosopher; if you wish to offer argument and evidence that the accustions presented here, some of which are derived from Masonic cultists, are "baseless," please do so. To assist the discussion of this matter, I will re-post the excerpts from the New York Times article which I have previously cited and quoted from, that you may specify "which" accusations are baseless and why.

In Shriner Spending, a Blurry Line of Giving

www.nytimes.com...


ABILENE, Tex. — John C. Goline is living proof of the good work done by the Shriners. Struck by polio as a child, he can walk today only because of his six years in and out of the Shriners hospital in Shreveport, La., where, like all patients, he received free treatment.

Jessica McGowan for The New York Times

Inconsistencies at a Alabama club’s bingo game raised the suspicions of a Shrine leader, but many of his changes were rejected when he left office.

The experience inspired a lasting devotion to the Ancient Arabic Order of the Nobles of the Mystic Shrine, the 135-year-old fraternal organization that founded and controls the Shriners Hospitals for Children. “They did wonders for me,” Mr. Goline said.

But his faith was shaken when he joined the leadership of the Suez Shriners in San Angelo, one of 191 temples affiliated with the order. He found that much of the money collected to support the hospitals was commingled with money used for liquor, parties and members’ travel to Shrine events. The Shrine’s national auditor largely confirmed his findings, but not before Mr. Goline was forced out of office.

His experience is not unique. An examination by The New York Times of Shrine records and minutes of Shrine meetings and interviews with current and former Shrine officials painted a picture of lax accounting procedures and oversight under which money earmarked for the hospitals instead financed temple activities.

The examination found these things:

¶More than 57 percent of the $32 million the Shriners raised in 2005 through circuses, bingo games, raffles and a variety of sales went to costs of the fraternity, including keeping temple liquor cabinets full and offering expenses-paid trips to Shrine meetings and other events.

¶Only 2 percent of the Shrine hospitals’ operating income comes from money raised by Shrine temples and members’ dues. (The bulk is supplied by the hospitals’ $9 billion endowment.)

¶A top Shrine official told a meeting of temple treasurers that poor accounting for cash coming into the organization was “an increasingly common problem,” and that more than 30 temples had discovered fraud — like theft of money and inventory, altered bank statements, padded payrolls and fake invoices — amounting to as much as $300,000 and involving members of their “divans,” the five-member boards that govern each temple.

Yet whistle-blowers like Mr. Goline are often greeted with hostility, retaliation and official sanctions.

“I was really amazed and shocked when I got into what had been done,” he said, “especially because everyone kept telling me how everything was done by the rules.”

In Texas alone, at least four of the state’s 13 temples have lost money to theft, embezzlement and faulty accounting over the last five years, according to several Shriners there.

In one of the rare cases where the Shrine prosecuted wrongdoing, the Zem Zem temple in Erie, Pa., accused a former top official last year of misappropriating $1.2 million in bingo revenues. The temple settled for an undisclosed amount.

Critics say the line has been blurred between money raised for the hospitals and for members’ entertainment.

“Money raised for the hospitals is being used to pay for parties and liquor and trips, and they know it,” said Johnny L. Edwards, who was a leader of Oasis Shrine in Charlotte, N.C., until he began campaigning for better control over money. “The way I see it, they’re stealing from crippled children.”

This of course only relates to the issue of the finances of the Shriner charity; the descriptions of what goes on at Shriner and Jester events which have been described as drunken revelry with strippers and prostitutes in attendance have been stated on previous pages.

Further do bear in mind that the allegation that the Jesters' charity is just an excuse to organise tax free parties where there is drunken revelry, gambling, strippers and prostitutes is an allegation which comes from Masonic cultists themselves. For example, the following excerpt is souced from the Freemasons for dummies site which is a pro Masonic site. Thus if there are are allegedly "baseless" allegations being spread about US Masons, bear in mind that the source of such allegations are the Masons themselves and not myself; I am merely presenting such a matter for dscussion.

freemasonsfordummies.blogspot.com...

"During the initiation of new Jesters I was offered the opportunity by another fellow brother to sleep with a whore, even though I had a wife and kids waiting for me to come home. I was not strong at the time and I violated every oath I had ever taken with my wife. This did not stop at initiation. These were a constant occurrence at our Jester functions and they are a common occurrence today. The initiation practices have not changed as well. Prostitutes were offered/made available at our functions and often brothers would have sex in front of other brothers.

Oral sex competitions between brothers were considered “fun” activities to build a strong brotherhood bond between members of the Royal Order of Jesters. Potentates and Chaplains, Attorneys and Judges, Past Masters and brothers all participating or watching with open eyes, but closed minds. I often felt ashamed of what I was doing, but the pleasure outweighed the guilt. I had fallen within a deep hole and my cable-tow had been severed.

Sex, illegal gambling and Alcohol were and are the preferred order of business to ease the "pain" of brother masons. Prostitutes are available at Jester functions for the brothers to have their way with.

There is also illegal gambling at our functions where Masonic brethren are playing high-stakes games with hard-earned cash. I have seen it all brothers and it is going on today, right under your noses, within your communities, and these men are calling themselves your Masonic Brothers."

Jester Confesses to Wife He Organized Prostitutes

Mon Aug 25, 2008

Sandy Frost


Note: The Royal Order of Jesters’ parties are called “Books” that involve the members performing the “Book of the Play.” It can be read here. Apparently, the “Book of the Play” revolves around the murder of William Shakespeare. This, according to the Jesters’ website, is how they obtained IRS status as a “charity”:


JW: He maybe attended two a year for the first two years, but by his seventh year, he had 14 trips planned. Finally, I said “enough, where do I fit in anymore?” In all of our married years, John never stopped at a bar after work with the guys. He took, maybe, one golf trip a year without me. We were a team and did everything together.

Everything he did now or anywhere we went was associated with the Jesters.

He was completely obsessed, though he couldn't see it. I noticed how he bragged about being a member. Jesters are not supposed to advertise themselves as being Jesters, as it is kind of a secret organization. But John would wear purple, carry purple emblemmed golf bags, license plates, and boast about it being a strictly stag, luxury organization for no purpose other than to spread mirth. The more I heard that, the more disgusted I became. I also noticed that he was not taking cell phone calls in front of me, or he would go outside to talk. He used to let me answer his phone.

I had no lingering suspicions. I had heard about the girls by accident, about the second year that John was in. He certainly played it down, and told me he had nothing to do with them, they were kept separate, no contact at all. I believed him. I didn't ask any more questions. The Jesters oath is “What you hear here, what you see here, stays here when you leave here.” Every new member must take that oath. He was a bit open with me about some of the things that went on, I guess telling me just enough not to arouse any suspicions. So I definitely discovered our problem after a specific incident.

It happened at the same time I realized how many trips he was taking. As a matter of fact he was at his court’s book, when I received a phone message:

“Hi John, this is Jane from St. Louis. I'm at the Union Station in downtown Chicago and wonder if you're sending a Jester to pick me up of if I should get the shuttle.”

I called him on his cell phone and told him he should train his Jester girls better so they don't call the wife. He of course didn't know what to say. This was on a Thursday. I thought he would come home right away, as the hotel was just 1/2 hour away. He didn't come home until Saturday night, although he did call me later to try to explain.

..........When I confronted him, he explained to me how it works. The Jesters have a “pool” of girls. Certain men have their favorites and make requests to have them at the books. It is up to each court's Director to assign the job of inviting the girls, a number based of the number of attendees. In this case, eight girls were invited for between 180-200 men. He says that only about 20% of the men use the girls, but a friend said it's more like 70%. I really don't know. They get $100 an hour. ......

He was asked to do the job because he travelled so much and knew who the girls were and who the favorites were......

.......Off duty cops act as guards for the secure floors, so they already know about it. ?

.........It's like at Halloween when you dress up and are something you would never be any other day. That is the closest I can analyze how he felt with the Jesters. They drink only top shelf, money is no object, stay at the best places, dress in tuxedos and get away with whatever.

...Other than girls, there is a lot of high stakes poker, low stakes gin, and 24 hour hospitality rooms. The initiation involves “stunts” which I know include nudity, but I don't know much about it.


The Royal Order of Jesters is a secret sub group made up of invited Shriner leaders. ...............The Jesters applied to the IRS and were granted two non profit classifications, one fraternal and the other charitable. The charity was formed so the National Jester Court could build a new million dollar museum/headquarters, from which to oversee the fraternity.

(1) According to court documents, the U.S. Attorney's office describes the Royal Order of Jesters as:

This organization maintained chapters throughout the United States, including in Western New York, and it was the custom of these chapters to host periodic meetings, usually on weekends, for their members. At most of these meetings, some members of the organization would be tasked to arrange for the presence of women at the meetings, for the specific purpose of utilizing the women to engage in sexual intercourse and other sexual activity with the organization's members in exchange for money."

sandyfrost.newsvine.com...

So much for these "priestly knights." I should point out that such allegations are not merely allegations against a "few" individuals, but they are allegations of widespread institutional corruption and the use of charity funds to finance events where drunken revelry and prostitution are allegedly commonplace and, to restate, such allegations are being made by Masons themselves.

Lux

reply to post by Lucifer777

The Freemasons are just another gang of religious Capitalists

Well that's a bit of a general statement no?

I am certainly not "religious" in the traditional sense of the word -- I don't believe in organized religion .. and I don't consider myself a Capitalist either, I consider myself a Mercantilist.

So if you're completely wrong about just one random Mason, I think it's safe to assume you're wrong about a great many of them.

I'd suggest not over generalizing.

¶More than 57 percent of the $32 million the Shriners raised in 2005 through circuses, bingo games, raffles and a variety of sales went to costs of the fraternity, including keeping temple liquor cabinets full and offering expenses-paid trips to Shrine meetings and other events.

1. The Shriners are a FRATERNITY. They are registered as such, they are not a Charity, they are a Fraternity that partakes in Charity.

2. As I stated before, the vast majority of Shriner support for the hospitals comes from Bequeathed monies, mostly from dead Shriner Masons who leave behind annuities, donations, insurance etc. Hence why since 2008 the hospitals have had a reduced amount of funding because their main investment funds lost 40+% of it's value.

Though, I honestly don't disagree that they spend to much money on "Parties" (for various functions) .. it's one of the reasons I have not joined. But again recognize that it is a Fraternity.

Just for kicks and giggles: Most charities keep 60-80 cents per Dollar. And while the money donated to the Fraternity may not all go to the Shriners, the Endowment was mostly gifted by Masons..

And as a side note to the side note.. the Shrine is not the Blue Lodge, which represents all Masons collectively.. the Shrine consist only a small percentage of all Masons world wide. And there again, we are a Fraternity, and how and where we spend our money is our decision.



Why don't you just join and find out for your self instead of berating an entire people because of some personal vendetta.. just my opinion.. I'd respect yours more if you took the time to join then criticized. I would even join in on the griping, love griping.. but not about things I know nothing about.

reply to post by KSigMason

Not all the colonists were Masons. What laws were passed by Masons to keep India poverty stricken?

Not all genocides were committed by Masons.

Please do name these Masons. What Lodges did they belong to? When did they join?

Freemasonry is peaceful, it engages in no wars. If people followed all the tenets and virtues taught in Freemasonry there wouldn't be wars.

Once again you didn't said anything about what i have originally stated, I talked about how freemasonry expanded by teeming up with colonists. I gave you examples of freemason robert clive, general dyer and british east India company, but you didn't talked about them. This is called denial tactics You are asking about what oppressing laws, but you didn't realized that whole constitution of India was written by those freemason colonists. It is all in your masonic websites.

Colonial Freemasonry
During the 18th century events which had a profound effect on the Colonies and Freemasonry were taking place. Of major importance was the conflict between the English and the French for supremacy in the Colonies. These conflicts are called the French and Indian Wars and they continued for years. Naturally there were many British soldiers stationed in the Colonies, and as traveling or military lodges were common in the British Army, a number of them were working in the British Colony army.

At the close of the French and Indian Wars, in the last half of the 18th century, there were about 50 military lodges in the Colonies. They were warranted by both the Ancient and Modern Grand Lodges of England, and by the Grand Lodges of Scotland, Ireland, and the Provincial Grand Lodges of Massachusetts, Pennsylvania and New York. At the time hostilities started in the Revolution, the number of military lodges had increased about 50 per cent. At the close of the French and Indian Wars there were, in addition to the military lodges, about one hundred lodges warranted by the Grand Lodges previously named. Military lodges greatly accelerated the growth of Colonial Freemasonry.

master mason

Masonry in Colonial United States
Masonry arrived in the Colonies in 1682 when John Skene of Aberdeen Lodge, came to Burlington, New Jersey. Nothing much more is known of him. Over the next 50 years Colonial Freemasons exercised the immemorial right of Masons to form a lodge and make Masons. Coil reports evidence that although no chartered lodge existed in the Colonies, a lodge was held in King’s Chapel in Boston in 1720, and that the Boston News Letter for May 25, 1727 gave a detailed account of the Grand Lodge meeting in London.

Ireland warranted a number of traveling lodges with the Army in America. These
lodges initiated colonists who later became members of other early lodges. The
initiation of Prince Hall and 14 others into an army traveling lodge near Boston in 1775
was an event that continues to have ramifications in Masonry today.

Source

I can tell you about involvement of Freemasons in world wars, Iraq and Afghan war but you will deny it, because you are trained to do so. The role of freemasonry was always to dominate countries to exploit them. Quit the naive view of freemasonry installed in you by your masters.

Originally posted by Rockpuck
reply to post by Lucifer777

The Freemasons are just another gang of religious Capitalists

Well that's a bit of a general statement no?

I am certainly not "religious" in the traditional sense of the word -- I don't believe in organized religion ..

"Like computer viruses, successful mind viruses will tend to be hard for their victims to detect. If you are the victim of one, the chances are that you won't know it, and may even vigorously deny it." Richard Dawkins

We are just going around in circles on this point; I am entirely aware that the Masons have their own form of "doublespeak," where for some reason they no longer wish their religious rituals to be considered religious; however from the point of view of the academic study of religion, Freemasonry has many of the signs of a religion, Temples, esoteric beliefs, a preistly heirarchy, priestly titles etc. It does not make any difference to me how you define terms in your own cult insider language.

and I don't consider myself a Capitalist either, I consider myself a Mercantilist.

Mercantilism is just an antiquated theory of Capitalism, however my general observation of Freemasons is that they tend to be rather conservative Capitalists, many of whom, in England and Scotland anyway, join to improve their career prospects and to climb up the Capitalist food chain.

The highest proportion of Masonic Lodges anywhere in the world is in the "Square Mile" of the City of London (i.e., the financial districts) where there are several hundred lodges; indeed many of the UK financial institutions such as Lloyds of London have their own Masonic Lodges, and Masonic membership can not only assist one's career but in certain companies it is almost mandatory at certain levels.

So if you're completely wrong about just one random Mason, I think it's safe to assume you're wrong about a great many of them. I'd suggest not over generalizing.

I do know of at least one Freemason on another forum who considers himself to be a political Anarchist, however the exception does not make the rule.

Since it is a common conspiracy theory presented by the David Ickes and Henry Makows of the world that the Masons are following the political agenda of the 18th century Illuminists who were proto-Anarchists, I think that if such a bizzarre theory was true, that we would "generally" find that Freemasons are Anarchists, political radicals, anti-Capitalists, etc., however such a generalisation would simply be untrue, since Masons are generally rather conservative Capitalists and while is it common for British Masons to be monarchists, it is entirely unusual to find an Anarchist Mason; indeed in the UK the Anarchist movement is very much a counterculture, while the Freemasons tend to be very much part of the economic establishment.

¶More than 57 percent of the $32 million the Shriners raised in 2005 through circuses, bingo games, raffles and a variety of sales went to costs of the fraternity, including keeping temple liquor cabinets full and offering expenses-paid trips to Shrine meetings and other events.

1. The Shriners are a FRATERNITY. They are registered as such, they are not a Charity, they are a Fraternity that partakes in Charity.

To argue that the Shriners are a fraternity (a brotherhood) is rather like saying that the Catholics are an organisation of people. The allegation against the Shriners is that they are a tax exempt organisation which raises money for children's hospitals and which diverts part of that money towards functions of drunken revelry.

Just for kicks and giggles: Most charities keep 60-80 cents per Dollar.

Yes I am quite aware that most charities are just tax free business, with some of the world's worst charities donating almost nothing to charity and using almost all their funds for "administration costs;" however since the Shriners are the world's wealthiest non religious charity it is quite to be expected that they will face criticism.

Why don't you just join and find out for your self instead of berating an entire people because of some personal vendetta.

I do "not" have any personal vendetta against the Masons. I grew up among Scottish Masons and despite them generally being rather old fashioned and conservative people who were part of the Scottish economic establishment, I simply have no reason to engage in a personal vendetta.

If one compares the Scottish Masons, who often are referred to as the "Scottish Mafia" with other gangs of Capitalists, such as the Yakuza, the Triads, the Russian Mafia, the Italian Mafia or even the Bloods and the Crips, it seems to me that the "Scottish Mafia" are probably the most civilized and least "thuggish" of them all.

It is quite appropriate for me to raise the matters stated on this thread on a forum frequented by Masons, and it is also very interesting for me to observe the kind of responses to such criticisms; however once this thread has died it's death and joined the great storeroom of Internet debates in the sky; I will simply move on to other matters. Of course I am very interested in the study of Masonry since it is a major religious cult of financially powerful Capitalists who are a prominent force in the British economy, but I in no way wish to imply that it is "the" most malevolent organisation in Capitalism.

My own family has traditionally bneen divided along ideological lines. My father for example is a lifelong evangelical anti-Communist, but he is simply too old now for him to have any influence on the world; however he did at one point pay for my deposit when I stood in the general election as an Independent Communist candidate in London some years ago; not because he is a Communist, but merely because I am his son. Other members of my family have also had rather radical politics, including one member of my family who was probably the most famous Communist political celebrity in Scottish history whom my father still to this day derides, while I take a contrary position, as would other members of my extended family

I have never had any interest in joinng Masonry; my social circle has never really been that of the establishment, and I have been much more at home in the Anarchist and Neopagan and countercultures where I belong. I find that I have very little in common with most Masons, since they normally tend to be rather conservative and part of the economic establishment; furthermore I see absolutely no value in purchasing Masonic degrees, since I consider it to be a heretical form of Kabbalism, and an esoteric franchise business, whereas I tend to consider the Kabbalism of Crowley and the "irregular" Masonic counter-culture and the esoteric revivialsim of the 19th and 20th centuries to represent a more orthodox understanding of the Kabbalah.

With regards to the American brand of Masonry, I do concede that there were progressive elements among the American Masons, particularly in the 18th century and among the "founding fathers" of America; thus it is unsurpising when conspiracy theorists point to the esoteric symbolism on US currency and the architecture of Washington D.C., particularly since many architects were Masons; and anyway there are only so many commonly useful geometrical shapes in architecture such as pentagrams and hexagrams and and so forth. I find no grand conspiracy in that, and I have personally had a lifelong fascination with esotericism anyway. Never the less, my studies of modern American Freemasons and my debates with them do not give me a good impression of them; they are simply not the kind of people whom I would choose to fraternalise with, and were I once again living in the US, I would most certainly be part of the counterculture.

With regards to the idea of "New World Order" it does seem to me that there is a very real movement among the economic establishment to create a global Capitalist police state, and many of the Alex Jones type "prison planet" type videos do give me cause for concern; however this is also tempered by European socialism and the International political Left ("The Revolutionary Vanguard"), and society will always be affected by the dialectical nature of politics and human consciousness; there will always be resistance from below, though I do see disturbing signs that the Capitalist establishment in the US may be moving in the direction of military dictatorship, and I don't forsee any short term hope for socialist revolution in the US, but the future of the world is not predetermined and set in stone, and I suspect that collective human will shall triumph eventually and a more civilised socialist world will appear, but unfortunately not without a long struggle, wars and revolutions.

In a world of religious fanaticism, the Masonic religion is quite far down my list of "memetic viruses;" I probably have much more in common with the more intellectual and esoteric Masons than with any Christian, Muslim or Hindu, which are, in my judgement, the three major memetic religious viruses in our world, which are much more of a priority to eradicate than the Masonic religion, however ultimately the age of organised religion will and must pass away, and that includes Masonry.

Masonry is anyway no longer the preserver of the esoteric tradition; those who are esoterically enclined tend to be attracted to the modern Neopagan subculture, to Thelemic philosophy, philosophical Satanism, Luciferianism, Neowicca and a host of other New Aeon movements; indeed the term "esoteric" is now almost entirely redundant. What were in the past "secrets" and understood by a few cultists, have long since been revealed and written about in a myriad of publications since the esotericial revivialism of the 19th century, and the Prophet (Crowley) has long since revealed the secrets of the ages.

With current turmoil in the Islamic states, it is quite possible that in time, the dictators of the past will be replaced with far more dangerous Islamic republics. It was Machievelli's opinion that in war, one must always choose sides and never remain neutral, and frankly societies where Freemasons have infiltrated the establishment would be far more civilised and progressive societies than those governed by Muslims; however I predict a future age where none of the religions of the modern world will prevail, including Masonry, and humanist morality and human reason will replace the slave morality of organised religion.

Lux
The End of Religion.

"Religion itself becomes offensively monotonous. On every point of vantage are pagodas --stupid stalagmites of stagnant piety.” Aleister Crowley

reply to post by Lucifer777

There also wouldn't be individual choice or freedom, and the government would have too much say so over the People.

No it's further evidence of you not answering the question. Does she have the physical evidence?! Testimonies are great and all, but are hard to prove without physical evidence. If there were satisfactory evidence and those men were punished in accordance with the law then the matter is over. The individuals have been dealt with and if I read right somewhere in this thread then those members were expelled.

I didn't realize that tax returns showed individual events. I've done taxes for my Lodge and my college fraternity, and I don't remember seeing "individual events" on them. There were sections to itemize items, but it was for the entire year and not per event.

I'm not saying that all Masons have been good men. The ones found to be criminals are often kicked out. I know I've taken part in a tribunal and watched a Brother get kicked out. I'm saying you can't paint the Fraternity with the same brush as these men especially as they were most likely expelled.

Who are you to say that the degrees of Freemasonry are fake?

Freemasonry isn't neither a cult nor a religion. And I'm actually taking a religious studies class and nowhere does it discuss Freemasonry, not even in the new age movements.

Nothing worth having is ever easy. I've read up on the 33 degrees and I find nothing unclear. Your judgment is not correct in its opinion of Freemasonry.

The Duke of Kent is only the leader of the UGLE, not all Freemasonry. Please let this sink in. There are also "military Lodges" sanctioned from Grand Lodges in the US.

No, its not semantics, it is the truth.

Academic classification of a religion:

Doctrine/Dogma: This is a set system of beliefs, stories and expectations that have to be followed and shared. Masonry has only the stories, allegories like many religions use, yes, but nothing that is definite and set in stone. The Allegorical teachings of Masonry are in line with Philosophical beliefs of devotion to good or self improvement -- a way of thought and action. Very different than Doctrine or Dogma, like for instance Islam, Christianity and Judaism have holy days, holy scriptures, ancient histories, and a level of expectation that everyone believes the same basic principles and performs certain rituals.

God(s): The belief in a deity as all religions must have faith. This is where Spirituality and Religion separate, and while Freemasonry commands you must believe in a god to be a Mason, you do not have to believe in God. That is to say, 5 Masons can sit together in a lodge and all have a belief in a separate Deity, gods, and not a shared God. This way a Hindu, Pagan, Christian, Jew, Zoroastrian and a Native American can all sit in a Lodge together and be content to say "Great Architect of the Universe" ... because that leads into the next:

Creationism: All religions believe in the eternal Deity and it's power to Create, Control and Destroy.

Meaning of Life: All religions focus on what life is, even Buddhism which is closer to Spiritualism than a true religion believe in the expectations set by the teachings that we are here for a very specific purpose. While religions try to tell use why we are here and how we should act, Masonry takes a Philosophical approach and simply asks "how should we act while here?" -- with decency.

Afterlife: All religions, thus believing in a God believe in some form of after life. Masonry never mentions the after life, just that we all die. Which we do. Spend your time wisely. The only reference to Heaven (or hell, I s'pose) is the Celestial Lodge, which is a very generic meaning for "the great beyond, heaven, the next adventure, etc, etc, etc, etc" ... I, not believing in Heaven or Hell can safely attach my own religious/spiritual attachment to those words.

Freemasonry has many qualities of religion only through perception, that perception is that he very basic philosophical teachings are found at the very root of ALL religions.. every single religion teaches Humans to be good people, the crux of Masonic teachings.. if you strip Dogma from Christianity, Islam and Judaism, Hinduism, Buddhism, Taoism, so on and so on, the very basic teachings are all the same.

And so Freemasonry is Deistic. belief in God of one's own making without the structured Dogma of Faith in order to organized a singular and similar belief amongst members.

We can take the same interpretation of religion and add it to Masonry in it's entirety, symbols and all .. the very way Masonry is constructed is that it is NOT uniform like one expects, and is entirely de-centralized. The Symbols and it's teachings may have a very basic and vague explanations during degrees, and from there uniform singularity stops. Every Mason can then sit down and write a long and boring book (morals and dogma anyone?) and explain everything about Masonry in their own perspective.. and you'd get thousands of different beliefs and understandings. No one belief is correct. There is no centralized understanding of how things are to be interpreted.. like the Great Architect of the Universe, the teachings of Masonry are to provide a vague outline of your mission as a Mason: To be a good man to help your fellow man. Then providing the tools through teachings. Each member then takes as much or as little as they want or needs from them to apply to their own life, in their own understanding and their own interpretation.

Are all Masons good men? No.
Are there "circles within circles"? Don't doubt it.
Do some join for business reasons? Yup.
Do some join just to be known as a Mason? Sure do.
Are we Humans? I'm fairly certain.

Do the actions of a few reflect the many? Does one persons interpretation speak for millions? Can we take vague teachings and then project your own beliefs and rightfully demonize the beliefs of everyone else?

I will say this about you Lucifer777: You are an Equal Opportunity Basher. You're just as long-winded and boring criticizing Masons as you are criticizing Christians imo.

If your research had shown some critical thinking, I was willing to listen, but you jumped out with some poor sources that you had to admit you hadn't checked out. Not cool on ATS--you will get called out and find you have blown your street cred.

Under the "influence of Crowley" since you were a teen, eh? Why does that not surprise me. Wonder what that did to your rosy cross...and how did them ecclesiastical wafers taste? Ewww.

Crowley, btw, ended up a beggar and a heroin addict. Wasn't a real happy individual if you know your stuff. If his magic(k) & philosophy were so powerful then why was his end so pitiful?

I can understand the masons creating threads aimed at one another but for the life of me I don't understand why someone so dead against this cult would create a thread only made up of links to other sites with the same cock-eyes view as themselves! I long since gave up reading anything on freemasonrywatch because it tended to lean on the side of insanity.
Live and let live!
If you don't like them then steer clear of them but for heavens sake don't spread lies about them..
If I thought along the same lines as you I would create long winded threads about how the Welsh are out for world domination with their close harmony singing and love of leeks!

Originally posted by CholmondleyWarner
If I thought along the same lines as you I would create long winded threads about how the Welsh are out for world domination with their close harmony singing and love of leeks!

The tide is turning, Billy.

reply to post by Lucifer777


it's funny when out of 1.5 million Masons in the USA, 22,000 are Jesters and when a small percentage of the Jesters had sex with hookers, then I slept with hookers and my Grandpa slept with hookers (even though we never have and never will)

thats like saying out of the 1.5 million residents of so-and-so enlgand, out of 22,000 residents of this suburb 5% of the residents had sex with hookers or were pedophiles, are we going to lable everyone pedophiles and hooker users? I hope not

Originally posted by The GUT
If your research had shown some critical thinking, I was willing to listen, but you jumped out with some poor sources that you had to admit you hadn't checked out.

Not cool on ATS--you will get called out and find you have blown your street cred.

I have no idea what you are referring to; I have merely posted a number of media articles which criticise American Masons; obviously I have never personally claimed to have witnessed members of the American Masonic priesthood having sex with children, prostitutes or putting on events of drunken revelry with strippers, paid for by charity money; neither have I witnessed Masonic rituals where US Masons have had ice cream poured down their underwear or had electric shocks applied to their genitals; all of these allegations come from American Masons whose testimonials have ended up in the media articles which I have posted.

Thus far none of the Masonic apologists here have even attempted to offer argument or evidence which refutes such claims; the reponses have simply been those of denialism, contradiction, obfuscation & ad hominems. This is exaclty the same strategy the Scientology cultists use on the Internet; it is simply indicative of the cult mindset and which shows the inability to be critical about one's cult religion.

If the allegations are untrue, I think the question is begged as to why the world's largest non relgious charity does not take legal action against the New York Times, against other media sources, against the FBI, and against US Masons who have made such allegations? It is not as if they cannot afford an army of lawyers, and anyway if the allegations have been fabricated and there is adequate evidence of this, there are armies of US "ambulance chasing" lawyers who would be more than happy to take such case on a "pro bono" commission basis.

Crowley, btw, ended up a beggar and a heroin addict. Wasn't a real happy individual if you know your stuff. If his magic(k) & philosophy were so powerful then why was his end so pitiful?

SInce Masonry at certain levels is part of the multi-billion dollar Jesus business (i.e., they claim to be Christian Knights / priests), I could ask the same question about the dead god, fake healer and fake miracle worker, the fictional Jesus, who allegedly claimed to have miraculous powers and yet met such a pitiful end?

2000 years later his religion is essentially a corrupt business where professional hypnotists prey on the disabled, the handicapped and the vulnerable, promising them fake healings, miracles and selling them "eternal salvation."

The miraculous powers which the authors of the the fabrication,"The Gospels" claimed that Jesus' followers would have, have long been disproven, and his vile and degenerate religion has left a centuries' long legacy of tyranny, religious wars, inquistions, genocides, slavery, imperialism, and religious Capitalism by his followers.




"If one were to take the bible seriously one would go mad. But to take the bible seriously, one must be already mad."
Aleister Crowley

Crowley's influence on the other hand will, I predict, have far more influence on the future world than that of the fictional religious charlatan Jesus and his psychopathic, primitive and savage god; Crowley is anyway far better model of a modern human being than the fictional Jesus, and Crowley's philosophy is entirely the antithesis of the primitive and barbaric religion of a bunch of primitive Bronze Age genocial religious fanatics, which was the stated religion of the Jesus of the Gospels.

Any person who belongs to cult which considers one of the most vile, genocidal and psychopathic pieces of fiction in all of human history, the Bible, to be a "Sacred Volume of the Law" must be considered to be morally subhuman and to have insufficient intellectual and moral worth to criticise Crowely.

Anyway......such matters are irrelevant to the accusations against US Masonry; the opinions of Masonic cultists on Crowley does not in the slightest way make any difference to the accusations of Masonic corruption.

Lux

________________________

Addendum.

Originally posted by TheForgottenOnes
it's funny when out of 1.5 million Masons in the USA, 22,000 are Jesters and when a small percentage of the Jesters had sex with hookers,

That is not an appropropriate response to the allegatons. I have already responded to this matter. Just repeating the same claim over and over does not make it any more valid. The allegations are that such behaviour is widespread at Jester charity functions and that such behaviour has taken place over many decades. Futher these allegations are not "my" allegations; they are the allegations of US Masons themselves.

“I quit the Jesters more than 20 years ago, and this kind of thing has been going on at least 40 or 50 years,” said Malcolm “Mutt” Herring, 90, of Montgomery, Ala. “I quit because I don’t drink, and I don’t mess around with other women, other than my wife. Going to one of their events was like going to a whorehouse.”

"...........to claim that the ROJ doesn't know about this stuff on a widespread basis is sheer nonsense. "

freemasonsfordummies.blogspot.com...

"Face it. For over a hundred years, the Shrine has been the playground of Masonry, and has reveled in, and encouraged, its public image as a bunch of big-drinking, stripper-slapping, fez-wearing party animals, who engage in such behavior for the good cause of the hospitals. AND THAT'S FINE. "

freemasonsfordummies.blogspot.com...

I should point out that the "Freemasons for Dummies" website which the above quotations are sourced from is not an anti-Masonic site; it is a pro-Masonic site run by a Freemason, Chris Hodapp.

Lux

Originally posted by Lucifer777
SInce Masonry at certain levels is part of the multi-billion dollar Jesus business (i.e., they claim to be Christian Knights / priests), I could ask the same question about the dead god, fake healer and fake miracle worker, the fictional Jesus, who allegedly claimed to have miraculous powers and yet met such a pitiful end?

what year is it? what does BC stand for in regards to the date? Before Crowley? nope.

I am not a Crowley basher, I think the statements of his evil were very overstated. His main problem is he thought a bit too much of himself. Kind of like you.

Originally posted by network dude

I am not a Crowley basher, I think the statements of his evil were very overstated.

The judgement that he was "evil" is essentially a Christian judgement. What what evil about him? He was a drug fiend; he was promiscuous; he was bisexual; he was obsessed with necromancy; evoked gods and demons; he tried to insert his will into history;. he had a messianic complex (which is not always a bad thing for a philosopher / writer); he was anti-Christian; he despised the god of the Bible; he was a Kabbalist; he was an opponent of religous morality, etc., etc.

I am equally guilty of all of the above. I wish to make this clear, as I make no moral judgement on Masons for their rather ridiculous sexual behaviour, alleged in the articles on this site. I am just a lifelong student of religion, I grew up among Scottish Masons and I am interested in how the American Masons defend themselves against the allegations of their critics (critics who mostly seem to Masons themselves.)

His main problem is he thought a bit too much of himself. Kind of like you.

Vanity is one of the seven lifegiving virtues. If I am guilty of that, and there is a Creator, it is because She made me this way.

I really don't get the impression that the "regular" Masons are anywhere near the calibre of Crowley; and the American Masons seem to be mostly attempting to give the impression that they are just are social club of rather pompous, arrogant old men with silly hats who stuff whipped cream down the underwear of their neophytes. How impressive. Guardians of the ancient mysteries? I think not. Guardians of the sacred whipped cream, more likely. I am not amused. It seems to all be just a big "frat house" joke. They are utterly ridiculous (worthy of ridicule).

Shame.

You are not worthy.

Lux

Originally posted by Mason mike
reply to post by vinay86

 

what religion were the men you claim committed these atrocities? What color eyes did they have? what street did they live on?

They were all blond haired, blue eyed Christians. But later they bought people of every ethnicity to join them, for carrying out killings of innocents for them. I wonder why did you asked, are masons beginning to believe in cast, creed and religion. It might be for something called ethnic cleansing.

Quotes From Manly P. Hall 33º, H.P. Blavatsky, Franz Hartmann, Eliphas Levi, and Samael Aun Weor:

"Respectable sir, those who have profoundly studied the Masonry of Ragon or Leadbeater know very well that occult esoteric Masonry existed not only under the porticoes of the temple of Jerusalem but also in ancient Egypt and in submerged Atlantis.

"Regrettably, in the age of Kali Yuga or the Iron Age in which we currently find ourselves, such honorable institution has entered into the descendent, devolving circle...."

Most contemporary lodges of Freemasonry no longer teach the Path of Initiation (see the quotes found posted within the first link in this post, and also the first paragraph of this post).


As for Aleister Crowley's teachings:


OTO, or Ordo Templi Orientis, page 3:

"Crowley misused the ancient Gnostic word "Thelema" for his own filthy ambitions!"

Originally posted by vinay86

Originally posted by Mason mike
reply to post by vinay86

 

what religion were the men you claim committed these atrocities? What color eyes did they have? what street did they live on?

They were all blond haired, blue eyed Christians. But later they bought people of every ethnicity to join them, for carrying out killings of innocents for them. I wonder why did you asked, are masons beginning to believe in cast, creed and religion. It might be for something called ethnic cleansing.

only to point out the problem with your line of thinking. Because a few of the men who were involved with the military action you mentioned happened to be masons, you assumed that the action was a masonic function. I assure you that any action people take above and beyond charity, is not masonic. Nowhere in the world do masons meet and decide to invade or take military action in the name of masonry.

It could be that there is a conspiracy with all blonde haired, blue eyed men, to take over your country, or all men who were born in the month of July, or all men who are left handed. All of those are equally as crazy to lump that entire group in with a select few. There seems to be a pattern of over generalization on this forum as of late. Very small minded people not wanting to use what brain function they have to separate people from their affiliations. I agree that it's much easier to think that if one guy did it, then they all must be guilty, and be done with it, but in the real world where the rest of us live, it's just not that simple.

Originally posted by Lucifer777
Guardians of the sacred whipped cream, more likely. I am not amused. It seems to all be just a big "frat house" joke. They are utterly ridiculous (worthy of ridicule).

Shame.

You are not worthy.

Lux

thanks for the compliment sir.

I used to think the masons were a bit weird with the strange garb, the titles, the egotistical attitudes, then one day I had a sudden reality check when I realised how weird my friends and I must look, while standing at the bar after watching my football team, to someone who wasn't interested in football. We all had our LFC shirts on, talking about players only true supporters would recognise. Talking tactics and about our nearest rivals, and singing our terrace anthems... To someone not in the know we must have looked and sounded truly mad to let a simple game control our life the way it does.
I guess what I'm trying to say is the same applies to the freemasons. If you're not in the know, not interested in the beliefs etc, and they don't mean anything to you I guess they do look over the top and self indulgent.
Lets be honest, in these dark days we all need something to belong to dont we?

Originally posted by CholmondleyWarner
Lets be honest, in these dark days we all need something to belong to dont we?

I couldn't agree with you more!

Originally posted by network dude

Originally posted by Lucifer777
Guardians of the sacred whipped cream, more likely. I am not amused. It seems to all be just a big "frat house" joke. They are utterly ridiculous (worthy of ridicule).

Shame.

You are not worthy.

Lux

thanks for the compliment sir.

That you take this as a compliment says a great deal about you; however it was not meant as a compliment. I am no longer a member of any particular religious cult, but if a were a member of a cult and the criticisms and accusations against that cult were the criticisms and accusations that have been raised in this thread in the US media by US Masons themselves against American Masonry, then I would be thoroughly embarrassed and ashamed, and would most certainly leave that cult, and I would not seek to simply defend that cult without evidence that the allegations have been manufactured, and I would certainly not go into attack mode against those who merely present such criticisms and allegations.

We are judged by others on the basis of our allies and enemies, and that is entirely fair.

The American Masonic apologists on this thread have done little more than issue denials (absent of evidence) and throw ad hominems. It is simply indicative of their intellectual and moral dishonesty and of the standard effects of cult mind control.

Our enemies and allies in life will be our eternal enemies and allies.

Lux
No mercy on they who deserve none.

___________