On Masonic Charity. The world's largest non religious charity scam. On the Shriners and Jesters.

Originally posted by WormTyrant
My horribly ill-fitting avatar might suggest I'm a Mason, but I am not.

I am just a humble Mason sympathiser. I have a close relative who is a Master Mason, and hopefully one day I will aquire enough self confidence to join the Brotherhood and do some good for myself and others.

Although I wonder...Is it really worth the price ? Masonry is no joke, for every enthusiastic prospect there would appear to be five people ready to jump out and hysterically bash them. It does not bode well.

I am an Australian, and I know one thing : If we had a health care system as sick as The United States has, I'd want as many Shriners here as we could possibly get !

Apparently Aussie Masons do not sneer at Shriners like the British Masons do. I have been told that efforts are being made by Master Masons here to reach out to them, maybe even establish the Shriners here too. This would only be an extension of an already good and admirable system of morality, as peculiar as it may appear.

Of course some Shriners and Masons have been caught engaging in nefarious activities. They are only human and any group has it's small share of weak-minded fools that try to ruin it for the rest. I'd like to see as much attention paid to alternative brotherhoods and power groups, such as the Police and the Judiciciary. But that we will never see, not the same way we always have with Shriners and Masons, because other groups just appear decidedly less eccentric, less intriguing.
Always such obsessive, hysterical undertones in peoples voices and words when attacking the Brotherhoods. I wish the detractors would at least tone it down.

How many times has this already been argued though ? by Masons and non-Masons alike ?

Lux you have every right to 'not to accept the Judgement' of most sober, non-obsessives on the matter. I just hope for your sake you don't expect them to really care that much, because in the end they won't. You should feel priviliged that real Shriners and Masons on here would even bother to engage your argument, which was always kind of hard to fathom in the first place.

edit on 18-2-2011 by WormTyrant because: (no reason given)

edit on 18-2-2011 by WormTyrant because: (no reason given)

I am a Mason in both America and Australia, Living in Australia, I'm proud to say I am a founding member of the Melbourne Shrine Club under Aahmes Temple Don't worry Mate, the Shriners are coming

Originally posted by TheForgottenOnes
...the Shriners are coming

Yes I see that recently the Shriners have changed their name from Shrine of North America" to "Shriners international ( www.lodgeroomuk.com... )," and are planning their expansion outside of North America.

I have no doubt that the world's largest non religious charity has the potential to "expand" internationally, however with the existence of the WWW, I predict that they will be unable to escape their current reputation. This reputation may not necessarily harm their expansion into certain parts of the world such as Africa and the Third World. Having just returned from Africa recently, where the corruption of the governments and middle classes is rampant, I have no doubt that many middle aged individuals will be attracted to an organisation where they can attend functions paid for by a wealthy charity, where they can engage in drunken revelry, and where strippers and prostitutes are in attendance, and they would probably consider having to engage in rituals where they are sexually humiliated, have ice cream put down their underwear and mild electric shocks applied to their genitals to be a minor inconvenience.

Originally posted by JoshNorton

If there are over 1.4 million Masons in America, and if there are only 1200 Jesters at any given time (as DragonTattooz has indicated), then the percentage of Masons who are Jesters is minuscule.

Perhaps you could cite a source for the figure that there are only 1200 Jesters. According to the freemasonsfordummies site, there are allegedly 22,000 of them (see below).

From: freemasonsfordummies.blogspot.com...

For over a hundred years, the Shrine has been the playground of Masonry, and has reveled in, and encouraged, its public image as a bunch of big-drinking, stripper-slapping, fez-wearing party animals, who engage in such behavior for the good cause of the hospitals. AND THAT'S FINE. The Shrine is what it is.

But to tell a man, on the one hand, that the Shrine is one more logical step for a Freemason to take, and then, on the other hand, to bring on the hookers, absolutely flies in the face of Masonic obligations. To fill the Blue Lodge with lofty lectures of morality and virtue, then to guard the door of the Shrine with off-duty cops and tell new candidates, "What happens here stays here," is the worst kind of hypocrisy. It throws mud on Freemasonry.

Judge Tills, who faces prison time now at the age of 75, once prided himself as being one of the toughest sentencing judges in western New York state. I'd be curious how many prostitution cases came before him on the bench, and how he sentenced them. His actions—hauling hookers across state lines, and even into Canada, not once, but at least on six occasions—belies the claim that such practices within the Jesters are not widespread. The FBI has been involved since last year. And this is in addition to the story from last May about Jesters' "fishing trips" to Brazil that involved at least 19 members and hookers as young as 13.

So why haven't the Shrine's national leadership thrown the Jesters under the bus and severed ties with them? Why haven't state grand masters put the Jesters on notice, or yanked dues cards of the most offensive individuals?

No, I do not believe that 22,000 members of the Jesters condone this behavior. It may very well be that the overwhelming majority of them don't. I have known many brethren who are Jesters who would never in a million years engage in this type of behavior. But to claim that the ROJ doesn't know about this stuff on a widespread basis is sheer nonsense. They certainly look the other way. And if they didn't care about anything else, just from a mercenary point of view, they are risking their non-profit status.

I once had a friend who asked the question, "What good is it being a member of a secret society if you can't get out of traffic tickets or get serviced by a hooker with a cop watching the door for you?" If that's what a man is looking for, then the Jesters need to split from the Shrine and just go be a sex club. And if the Shrine condones it, perhaps the Shrine needs to split from Freemasonry, as well. I say that as a member of the Shrine, an organization I joined because of the work they do with their hospitals. I have noticed in the last year, my dues card no longer says I'm a member of the Ancient Arabic Order Nobles of the Mystic Shrine (the initials of which were rearranged to spell A MASON), but now of Shrine International. There have been calls for years to split from the Masonic fraternity. The Jesters are one more reason to head that direction.

A few months back, I purchased a collection of Jesters' pins off of Ebay. I didn't do it because I particularly wanted them in my home. I did it because these pins, which were created each year for the annual Jesters' national meetings, depicted the grinning Jesters' cartoon mascot, Billiken, engaged in a variety of unsavory activities—sexual, and worse, racially violent. Activities that would land Billiken into a cartoon jail. I bought the pins because I didn't want the pictures of them to show up all over the internet. I care passionately about the fraternity of Freemasonry, and when individuals throw dirt on it with their actions, they throw dirt on me too. The website of the Royal Order of Jesters proudly proclaims its connection to Masonry (In fact, the page's title says "Royal Order of Jesters - Masons, Shriners, Freemasons, Masonic Lodges, Grand Lodges").

.

Lux

reply to post by Lucifer777

The allegations by a reporter doesn't mean the entire organization is bad nor are you numbers right that 1/3 of all Masons are Shriners/Jesters.

What a few Jesters did or did not do doesn't demonize the entire Shriner's charity or the organization itself. Nor is the Shriners a "religious charity". I'm not saying its all fabricated, but the media is not necessarily known for its accuracy and honesty. Plus I'm skeptical of anyone having "minutes" of a meeting, or at least legally ones that were legally obtained.

Allegations are always nasty. I've also been told that oral sex, sacrifice, prayers to Satan, and so on are a part of the Blue Lodge degrees. Allegations don't equal truth.

That is quite the scattering of Masonic organizations especially since the Red Cross of Constantine falls under the York Rite. I only know a handful of York Rite Masons who are also in the Shriners, most of whom are just sideliners.

From my understanding of the Jesters ranks, you are including far too many. What is your statistical source? You've never posted any sources

Like I said before, Freemasonry is attached to no church or religion. So are you going to tell me that the Lodges in Muslim countries or the Lodge in Israel are just sects of Christianity? There is a Lodge in NY that is predominately Jewish and as such displays Tanakh on their alter.

files.abovetopsecret.com...

Never seen these hats used by the Masons. Maybe its the Royal Arch exemplified, but my Chapter just uses aprons and Red jackets.

files.abovetopsecret.com...

These are costumes used in the York Rite, specifically in the Order of the Temple (aka Knights Templar). Like I said before, the York Rite and more importantly the Chivalric Orders are Christian oriented.

We don't just get drunk and party all the time. Most of the time we have our meetings and then afterward some of us would go out to drink, but we are also younger. Nor do we drink to excess, its usually a few drinks and then off to home.

Any oath into a Christian Knighthood is probably into Templar Order, not into the Blue, or Symbolic, Lodge (aka Craft Masonry). The Blue Lodge makes no claim to protect Christianity.

Actually the Holy Royal Arch Knights Templar Priests are a invitation only body in the York Rite.

The names of some organizations and titles in them simply refer to the legend or history of it, not necessarily the duties of the them. In the Royal Arch I was the High Priest, but I didn't do priestly duties. It was an honorific titles tied to the legend of the Royal Arch.

I'm not a typical Christian. I don't attend church and I'm pretty outspoken against organized religion and the use of religion to make war. Nor do I consider Freemasonry a replacement of religion.

With your "cultist" paragraph, its a lose lose situation with Masons since we can't argue against it since by your logic we'd just be exhibiting typical cutlist behavior.

Not every religious person is indoctrinated or under hypnosis. I'm sorry you are a materialist and a Marxist with such a chip on your shoulder.

Originally posted by KSigMason
reply to post by Lucifer777

 

The allegations by a reporter doesn't mean the entire organization is bad nor are you numbers right that 1/3 of all Masons are Shriners/Jesters.

The Shriners do not appear to publish membership statistics, however Shriner sites seem to boast of half a million members in statements such as "the Shriners of North America, an international fraternity of approximately half a million members ( tebala.org... )." and "We have more than a half million members, who belong to 191 local chapters, which we call Shrine Temples, across North America. ( www.rishriners.org... )

The membership of the US Grand Lodges was 1.4 million in 2009 ( www.msana.com... ).

Thus if there are 1.4 million Masons and allegedly "over" half a million Shriners, more than a third of all US Masons would be Shriners.

Since you dispute the "over one third of all US Masons are Shriners" statistic, might I also ask you for sources.

From my understanding of the Jesters ranks, you are including far too many. What is your statistical source? You've never posted any sources

I refer you to my previous response. All my statistics have been lifted from Masonic sites. If you dispute such statistics or consider the statistics offered by members of your own Brotherhood to be fraudulent or exaggerated, might I also ask you what your sources are?

Perhaps you could cite a source for the figure that there are only 1200 Jesters. According to the freemasonsfordummies site, there are allegedly 22,000 of them (see below).

From: freemasonsfordummies.blogspot.com...

....I do not believe that 22,000 members of the Jesters condone this behavior. It may very well be that the overwhelming majority of them don't. I have known many brethren who are Jesters who would never in a million years engage in this type of behavior. But to claim that the ROJ doesn't know about this stuff on a widespread basis is sheer nonsense. They certainly look the other way. And if they didn't care about anything else, just from a mercenary point of view, they are risking their non-profit status.

.

Like I said before, Freemasonry is attached to no church or religion.

In "cult insider language" Masons in recent years seem not to wish to refer to themselves as a religion. I have also noticed Christians who claim that Christianity is not a religion, and cult members who claim that their cult is not a cult.

You can redefine any word in the human language as "cult insider" doublespeak, but I am speaking in the English language as a student of the widespread phenomenon of the memetic disease of religion, and as far as I am concerned, an organisation with Temples, rituals and "worshipful (worthy of worship) masters," who are in the business of buying and selling priestly and religious titles and which has a "Messianic King" is just another component of the multi-billion dollar religion business.

So are you going to tell me that the Lodges in Muslim countries or the Lodge in Israel are just sects of Christianity? There is a Lodge in NY that is predominately Jewish and as such displays Tanakh on their alter.

There are clearly "irregular" French Lodges and modern Neopagan Lodges which are anti-Christian, in terms of the historical "Christian religion," however the Scottish Masons (the Scottish Rite in Scotland) are most certainly a Messianic Christian cult; as are the members of the ultimate level of the York rite, though of course, by Christian, their "Christ" is not the 2000 year old religious schizophrenic, exorcist and fake healer, the fictional Jesus; never the less it is a Messianic / Christian religious cult all the same..

. In the Royal Arch I was the High Priest, but I didn't do priestly duties. It was an honorific titles tied to the legend of the Royal Arch. I'm not a typical Christian. I don't attend church and I'm pretty outspoken against organized religion and the use of religion to make war.

I know at least one Orthodox priest and one Anglical priest in my personal social circle who don't take their religion seriously either, particularly since they are both gay, and the Biblical fanatics in their hierarchy consider such relationshps to be sinful; as far as they are concerned it was just a profession they entered into years ago and they no longer believe in it, but they have quite an easy life and they are both "stuck" in their professions for economic reasons, and continue to spread their memetic religious virus never the less.

Whether a person actually believes in the Masonic rituals and the buying and selling of "fake degrees" and titles is quite another matter; they are still members of a cult religion which utilises religious hypnosis, indoctrination and mind control.

With your "cultist" paragraph, its a lose lose situation with Masons since we can't argue against it since by your logic we'd just be exhibiting typical cutlist behavior.

Well part of the education I glean from engaging cult members in discussion is to be able to study their rather stereotypical cult apologetics, and the defensiveness of Masons here is quite typical of cultists.

Not every religious person is indoctrinated or under hypnosis.

Of course not; the study of religious hypnosis, indoctrination and cult mind control (essentially the psychology of religion) is essentially designed to make one immune to such techniques; it is virtually impossible to hypnotise a person who has some expertise in the techniques of hypnosis.

I only attempt to practice "mass" religious "de-hypnosis;" however this is not effective on the perpetrators of religious hypnosis, since they anyway are fully aware of what they are doing and are not "victims" of hypnosis but rather the proponents of hypnosis.

I'm sorry you are a materialist and a Marxist with such a chip on your shoulder.

I have no "chip on my shoulder" with regards to Masonry; it is not a personal matter.

Materialism.

In common with many Neomarxists and political Anarchists, I am not a materialist; materialism has never made any sense to me; human consciousness is anyway certainly not material, and that is a statement of the obvious. Consciousness is certainly produced by the brian, which is a piece of organic material, but the consciousness which the brain produces cannot be weighed or measured and is thus not material.

Marxist materialism is anyway based on a 19th century pre-quantum understanding of matter; even many atheists are no longer materialists, since it cannot be established that matter is the basis of matter. The origin and cause of matter is still a scientific mystery. The age old metaphysical question of "Which came first, consciousness or matter?," is simply beyond the limits of pure reason, since both answers lead to an infinte serious of questions which philosophers chase their tales over, and the question may anyway be a "red herring" since matter does not seem to be made of matter, but rather of something mysterious.

God

Since you raise the matter of Marxism, herein lies my central antagonism towards all forms of organised religion including Masonry. Organised religion in my judgement, is a means of mass hypnosis, indoctrination and social control which produces a "slave" to authority and to "God," who is of course the highest authority, the greatest tyrant and the greatest enemy of humankind; and with regards to Masonry and Christianity in general, this God most certainly seems to be the God of the Capitalists, the anti-Communists, the aristocracy, the economic establishment and the assorted dross of humanity who have become themselves the enemies of humankind and the allies of God. It is irrelevant to me whether this dictator of a God exists or not; it is sufficient for me to judge him as malevolent and to seek the eradication of the armies of human hypnotists who defend this God and who seek to corrupt humankind with their vile religions. .

Lux

"....the criticism of religion is the prerequisite of all criticism.

The foundation of irreligious criticism is: Man makes religion, religion does not make man. Religion is, indeed, the self-consciousness and self-esteem of man who has either not yet won through to himself, or has already lost himself again. But man is no abstract being squatting outside the world. Man is the world of man – state, society. This state and this society produce religion, which is an inverted consciousness of the world, because they are an inverted world. Religion is the general theory of this world, its encyclopaedic compendium, its logic in popular form, its spiritual point d’honneur, its enthusiasm, its moral sanction, its solemn complement, and its universal basis of consolation and justification. It is the fantastic realization of the human essence since the human essence has not acquired any true reality.

The struggle against religion is, therefore, indirectly the struggle against that world whose spiritual aroma is religion. Religious suffering is, at one and the same time, the expression of real suffering and a protest against real suffering.

Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, and the soul of soulless conditions. It is the opium of the people. " Marx

reply to post by Lucifer777


since this is your dog and pony show, and you seem to be interested in "real numbers", I have a request for you. I need to put this terrible conspiracy into perspective. Please tell me how many verified accounts of drunken parties with hookers have taken place with the shriners. And I would like to know how many of the 22,000 Jesters were involved in any scandals.

I don't feel this is an unfair request as you have brought these articles out into this forum and supported them.

And you really have no earthly idea what Craft masonry in the United States is about anymore than I know what goes on in your ex-girlfriends bedroom.

Originally posted by Lucifer777
The allegations have been made from various sources, however consider the testimony of the Shriner John C. Goline, which was reported in the New York Times; the article spans 5 pages on: www.nytimes.com... so I will only post extracts here.

While I appreciate that you chose to link a large amount of quotes and information you should note that I asked you of the hospital fund. Nowhere in the article does it say that 'much of' the fund's divedends are not used for charity.

Originally posted by Lucifer777
...and "worshipful (worthy of worship) masters,"...

How very disengenious of you, particularly since you hail from the United Kingdom where the Old English usage of the word 'worshipful' and its Masonic connotation is derived.

Originally posted by Lucifer777
You can redefine any word in the human language as "cult insider" doublespeak, but I am speaking in the English language as a student of the widespread phenomenon of the memetic disease of religion, and as far as I am concerned, an organisation with Temples, rituals and "worshipful (worthy of worship) masters," who are in the business of buying and selling priestly and religious titles and which has a "Messianic King" is just another component of the multi-billion dollar religion business.

From the Oxford English Dictionary:
Worshipful:

1. Of things: Notable or outstanding in respect of some (good) quality or property; distinguished, imposing; reputable, honourable.
2. Of persons: Distinguished in respect of character or rank; entitled to honour or respect on this account.
3. As an honorific title for persons or bodies of distinguished rank or importance: formerly used very widely, but now restricted to the livery companies and freemasons' lodges and their masters. right worshipful is applied to mayors.

It's just a term of respect for a guy who's been elected to hold an office for a year's term. Nothing religious about it.

If the Shriners spend more than one million dollars a day running their hospitals, and
if, as you claim, they spend MORE of their money on partying than they do running their charity,
then the Shriners are spending more than one million dollars a day on drinking and partying.

Somehow I don't know that their livers could take it.

reply to post by Lucifer777

S&F to you, I praise you for bringing up this topic. The problem is some people here do not look at masonry with a wide perspective, both freemasonry and Christianity are committing nefarious acts under the guise of charity. Freemasons might have build a few hospitals in rich countries or may be donating money to other charities, but they are not absolutely serious about there charity work, as they are not continually helping the impoverished by providing them basic life supporting amenities, charity does not only mean donating money. Freemasons never advertise in any media, although it is not about taking credit or projecting themselves as good guys, real charities do this to raise money and help more people. And, It is also not hidden that Freemasons are the followers of bible.

Both Freemasons and Christianity infiltrated many countries during colonization. They were directly involved in wars and revolutions during those colonial times, masonic leaders and generals ordered genocide of innocent people, made people slaves for prostitution, people of India and Africa have witnessed this, and that was how they were able to setup there lodges and churches all over the world. And to this day high ranking govt. officials are part of them, committing atrocities on people. And there are so many reports of christian missionaries being involved in human trafficking, pedophilia, rape and prostitution. You can see my thread.

Some people here are already being warned for derailing threads on masonry, It is their tactic to manipulate your posts, they only reply to the facts which they can easily modify and left the trickier parts. So don't pay them much attention.

"Without fail, topics that begin with a critical analysis of one or more aspects of Freemasonry are soon inundated with rapid-fire defensive replies from a select few members. And, those select few members appear to have 95% or more of their focus on those types of posts, within those types of threads... or, rapid-fire atta-boy replies in threads with positive remarks about Freemasonry. In other words, an apparent dedicated single-minded effort."
-----------ATS Site Owner.

Originally posted by AugustusMasonicus

Originally posted by Lucifer777
The allegations have been made from various sources, however consider the testimony of the Shriner John C. Goline, which was reported in the New York Times; the article spans 5 pages on: www.nytimes.com... so I will only post extracts here.

While I appreciate that you chose to link a large amount of quotes and information you should note that I asked you of the hospital fund. Nowhere in the article does it say that 'much of' the fund's divedends are not used for charity.

Perhaps my sentence construction was misleading, however I did not state that 'much of' the fund's dividends" was diverted from charity purposes,

I refer you to the OP:

Originally posted by Lucifer777

The media and Internet is full of information on the world's largest "non-religious" charity scam, which despite having an alleged $8 billion in assets, it is alleged that only a tiny fraction of it's income actually goes to charitable works.

Much of the money raised for charity apparently goes on expenses for it's member's events where strippers and prostitutes offering sex for sale have been reported.

Apparently a major source of income for the Shriners hospitals is a "trust fund." Over the years people have donated directly to this fund or left money to it in their wills. The millions of dollars raised every year by the "Shriners" apparently mostly seems to go to support the Shriner events and functons apart from comparatively small donations to charity.

I don't know of any allegations which suggest that the dividends from the trust fund are diverted to Shriner or Jester fuctions; the allegations refer to money raised by the Shriners; though I do concede that my statement above could be miscontrued to be read that way. What is alleged is that fundraising income is diverted. To restate excepts from the financial allegations in the OP without requotng the entire post:

"The Shrine fraternity, which operates the nation’s largest charity, has been misleading the public for years…In 1984, the circuses reaped an estimated profit of $17.5 million. The charity’s own records show the hospitals received only 1 per cent of that, a total of $182,000."
sandyfrost.newsvine.com...]

The Royal Order of Jester's, Prostitution, Sex Trafficking & Child sex allegations.

................
Tax returns show that Jesters national spent over $570,000 on one weekend bash.

Partying with prostitutes and child sex tourism paid by Jester's charity.

"And who convinced the IRS that the Jesters qualify as a non profit group?
Their 2006 tax return shows that though they lost $14,000, Jesters national
spent over $575,000 on one of their weekend parties. I know. Some of you are thinking
"Partying with prostitutes at tax payer expense? Where do I sign up?

.......The Shriners spent over $12 million this past year convincing everyone
just how amazing they are. Dudes, you're sponsoring a charity
associated with white collar crime, prostitution and human trafficking."[/I]

www.jrgenius.com...

World’s worst charities

There’s no question that without charitable works, the world would be a worse place to live. And that’s all the more reason that when we give money to a non-profit group, we need to make sure it’s the right one.

The American Institute of Philanthropy is one of several national charity watchdog organizations. It recently published its report card on 100 “failing” charities… charities that the AIP would not recommend you donate money to.

And you might be surprised at some of the results. Top failing charities in AIP’s estimation?

1. Research to Prevent Blindness
2. Shriners Hospitals for Children..................

The 1998 National Charity Report for the Ancient Arabic Order of Nobles of the Mystic Shrine - 'The Shrine', recorded a staggering 8 Billion Dollars in Assets, a 1.2 Billion Dollar increase over the previous year. .....

Also the Shriners posted an amazing 233 Million Dollar profit for the same year.

Only 2 percent of the Shrine hospitals’ operating income comes from money raised by Shrine temples and members’ dues. (The bulk is supplied by the hospitals’ $9 billion endowment.)

¶A top Shrine official told a meeting of temple treasurers that poor accounting for cash coming into the organization was “an increasingly common problem,” and that more than 30 temples had discovered fraud — like theft of money and inventory, altered bank statements, padded payrolls and fake invoices — amounting to as much as $300,000 and involving members of their “divans,” the five-member boards that govern each temple.

....
Critics say the line has been blurred between money raised for the hospitals and for members’ entertainment.

“Money raised for the hospitals is being used to pay for parties and liquor and trips, and they know it,” said Johnny L. Edwards, who was a leader of Oasis Shrine in Charlotte, N.C., until he began campaigning for better control over money. “The way I see it, they’re stealing from crippled children.”


Only 2 percent of the hospitals’ operating expenses — $11.3 million a year, on average, from 2002 to 2005 — comes from money raised by Shrine temples and dues paid by their 411,000 members worldwide, according to the Shrine’s financial accounts.

www.freemasonrywatch.org...

............
Have the Jesters hustled the feds by convincing them that raising millions for partying is a legitimate exempt purpose because the IRS has had no problem classifying them as both a nonprofit fraternity and charity?
...............

An internal investigation investigated Semb and Imperial Treasurer Gene Bracewell and, among other things, recommended that they (the Jesters) be reprimanded for lobbying on behalf of [B]a fundraiser who kept $43 million out of $47 million raised for the hospitals

aconstantineblacklist.blogspot.com...

I have not included all the links, but they can be found in the OP.

Originally posted by AugustusMasonicus

Originally posted by Lucifer777
...and "worshipful (worthy of worship) masters,"...

How very disengenious of you, particularly since you hail from the United Kingdom where the Old English usage of the word 'worshipful' and its Masonic connotation is derived.

I don't really care how a slave refers to a master, but to refer to a person as "worshipful" and "Master" is only one of many indications of that Masonry is a hierarchical religious cult. Under the laws of "religious freedom in Capitalism you can operate temples, run a religion business, sell fake degrees for any amount you like, make up your own rituals, and refer to fellow cultists as "worship," "master," "priest" or "knight" and dress up in fancy dress constumes as bishops, Knights Templars or the Second Coming of Christ if your choose to do so; I merely point out that it has all the hallmarks of a cult religion, but since you are a member of that cult, it is entirely to be expected that you should be in total denial of this; it is rare to find a mind controlled person who is a member of a cult religion who will admit that and say "I am a member of a cult religion."

Lux

Originally posted by vinay86
reply to post by Lucifer777

 

S&F to you, I praise you for bringing up this topic. The problem is some people here do not look at masonry with a wide perspective, both freemasonry and Christianity are committing nefarious acts under the guise of charity.

Yes "religion" is a multi-billion dollar business and it has the highest profit margin of any business; it is much more profitable than even the heroin or coc aine business, since they have "no-thing" to sell.

Essentially you have to pay to be hypnotised and indoctrinated and in return you get to spend all eternity in the afterlife being bored to death by a bunch of Christians, though allegedly, in the afterlife being "bored to death" is only metaphorical since it is allegedly an eternal world, where there is no escape from the Christians once abandoned and confined to their domain. In the case of Masonry, they all allegedly get to spend eternity in the Grand Lodge in the afterlife which is allegedly a "men only" realm of slaves, masters and their Masonic king. It it not really my kind of place.

I have a much better offer. I gurantee to beat any price on salvation, or in the case of Masonry, on the cost of buying fake Masonic degrees and pompous Masonic ranks and titles, or double your money back in the afterlife.

I also offer 144 virgins, which is twice the offer made by the Muslims. You get to spend all eternity without being hassled by the Christians or having to listen to their incessant preaching, praying and hymn singing, nor do you have to become a slave to an aristocratic Grand Master in the Grand Lodge in the afterlife. One has to fully commit oneself to anti-religious activism however, but you can open a franchise and sell salvation for the same price (zero essentially); but just think of the 144 virgins.

Frankly when one studies the history of modern 20th century esoteric cults considered "irregular (i.e., heretical)" by most Masons, which were usually started by Freemasons, such as the O.T.O. and the Golden Dawn, the Grand Masters of such groups could often earn quite a decent living, and often the rivalry between groups and even the internal politics had much to do with fanancial matters, and franchises were often given out like a McDonald's franchises. It is all part of the multi-billion dollar religion business.

Freemasons might have build a few hospitals in rich countries.or may be donating money to other charities,

Almost every major organised Capitalist gang makes a habit of making public donations to charities; even Pablo Escobar, the infamous Columbian drug lord, was renouned for his "good works" among the Columbian proletariat, and yet he is mostly remembered for his assassinations and murders; not that he was anywhere near as genocidal and murderous as the CIA, the US military and many of the far right Neofascists and US collaborators which the Americans assisted into power in Latin America, but one can be both a Mason and a US state terrorist / narco-terrorist collaborator; in fact it is quite common.

And, It is also not hidden that Freemasons are the followers of bible.

They do refer to the Bible as "The Volume of Sacred Law" but I think that any humanist who has read the Bible would have to come to the same conclusion as Richard Dawkins, that the Biblical god is "arguably the most unpleasant character in all fiction: jealous and proud of it; a petty, unjust, unforgiving control-freak; a vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capriciously malevolent bully" (Ref: the "God Delusion").

The Biblical deity is just the ancient tribal deity of a mythical tribe of genocidal Bronze Age slaves and blood sacrifice cultists who would today be considered "savages."

Any person who reveres such a deity is in my judgement, to use the Masonic expression, a person "devoid of all moral worth," or as I would prefer to say, morally subhuman, the "untermensch (inferior man or "under man)" and totally unworthy of life.

"The slaves shall serve."

Both Freemasons and Christianity infiltrated many countries during colonization. They were directly involved in wars and revolutions during those colonial times, masonic leaders and generals ordered genocide of innocent people, made people slaves for prostitution, people of India and Africa have witnessed this,

Certainly the City of London and Masonic institutions such as Lloyds of London made huge profits from the slave trade, but on the other hand many Masons were involved in the progressive French and American revolutions which overthrew monarchies (tyrannies), and were among the "founding fathers" of America who drafted the US constitution, which I consider to have been extremely progressive for that era. Today however the Masons in general cannot be described as political radicals or progressives, and in the UK they mostly seem to be monarchists and conservative Capitalists.

"Without fail, topics that begin with a critical analysis of one or more aspects of Freemasonry are soon inundated with rapid-fire defensive replies from a select few members. And, those select few members appear to have 95% or more of their focus on those types of posts, within those types of threads... or, rapid-fire atta-boy replies in threads with positive remarks about Freemasonry. In other words, an apparent dedicated single-minded effort."

Oh yes I have noticed that; I have been debating on the Internet since around 1995 with numerous usernames and with the Masons, the response it is often just abuse, contradiction, denial, mutual backslapping etc., though the Masons here on ATS seem remarkably well behaved thus far, which is unusal for Masons; however in order to understand their psychology one needs to understand Robert Lifton's criteria for "Thought Reform" and how cultists are affected by this.( see www.ex-cult.org... ); after a while one finds the same psychological profile with the Christians, Muslims and assorted cultists.

I find that a good strategy is to use long posts with repeated keywords and images which have keywords inserted into them and which get picked up by Google and other search engine spiders, and then encourage the cultists to repeat the same keywords over and over, You have to remember that many of these cultists will never reform, and that one is essentially conducting a public debate in front of their myriads of enemies which will remain on the Internet long after they have moved on to other threads.

The Revolutionary Vanguard

The "Revolutionary Vanguard" is not an organisation that can be infiltrated and controlled. We who speak to all peoples and nations as the lightening flashes from the east to the west, sit in judgement on the living and the dead; we have no membership fees, initations, rituals, gods or masters. All who renounce the gods and masters and submit themselves only to the highest authority of human reason and intution are a united invisible colegiate. God and his sycophants are our common enemy.

And don't forget about the 144 virgins.

Lux
"We are Legion. We shall prevail."
"No mercy on they who deserve none.

Originally posted by Lucifer777
Since this is "debating" forum, the motion that I am presenting on this forum is that "regular" Masonry is essentially a corrupt gang of assorted conservative Capitalists, aristocrats, monarchists, anti-Communists and Anglo-American state terrorist / narco-terrorist collaborators and various assorted "untermensch," and that the philosophical inheritors of the radical 18th century Illumnists are persons such as myself who represent the vast myriads of European Socialists, Anarchists, Neomarxists, Neopagans, Luciferians, philosophical Satanists, anti-Christians, anti-religionists, humanists etc.

So apropos of nothing in particular, the exception proves the rule and the miniscule minority is emblematic of the majority? And presumably you stylise yourself as part of the Übermensch?

reply to post by Lucifer777


I feel like any further discussion on this topic would be a waste of time, as you clearly don't see the logical fallacy of your claims. I will leave you with this.

In US craft masonry, any money generated and used by the lodge comes from it's members. NO OUTSIDE SOLICITATION happens. We are a private organization. What we do with our money is purely our business. The fact that we choose to help other with some of that money is our choice alone. No man outside of the masonic fraternity has any business worrying about how we spend our money. If you wish to have a say in the matter, join, if not, complain about your own personal finances. What we do inside our doors is private. If you want to know what it's about, join. If not, then worry about how you will spend your free time. We are an open society to any and all who wish to join our group, providing they meet the requirements.

As for you Lucifer777 and whomever you might have been before this user name, I can only say, good luck to you in life.

Originally posted by network dude
reply to post by Lucifer777

 

since this is your dog and pony show, and you seem to be interested in "real numbers", I have a request for you. I need to put this terrible conspiracy into perspective. Please tell me how many verified accounts of drunken parties with hookers have taken place with the shriners. And I would like to know how many of the 22,000 Jesters were involved in any scandals.

I don't feel this is an unfair request as you have brought these articles out into this forum and supported them.

I have yet to come come across any refutations of the articles cited and await you and your fellow cult members to produce refutations, or even any evidence that the world's largest non religious charity, which I must assume has an army of lawyers obsessed with litigation mania, has taken any action against the numerous persons and publications who have made such claims.

With regards to "how many" Shriners and Jesters are alleged to be involved in drunken parties and functions paid for from charity functions, I can only refer you to the articles provided where such behaviour is reported to be commonplace, however these are not my own allegations but from those of your own cult members; thus I suggest that you take the matter up with them if you doubt them.

And you really have no earthly idea what Craft masonry in the United States is about anymore than I know what goes on in your ex-girlfriends bedroom.

Yes this is a common allegation which is used by members of cult religions, which can essentially be stated as "You cannot understand my religion unless you join it and submit yourself to cult hypnosis and indoctrination." It is a statement of the obvious in a sense, since the victim of cult mind control will always have a different perspective of their cult than the person who is immune to such hypnosis and indoctrination and who is merely attempting to study the cult and the psychology and behaviour of the cult members.

I have a graduate degree in "Theological and Religious Studies / History" and a post graduate in education; I am quite qualified to "explain" about "religions" from an academic, historical and psychological perspective. In the field of the "Study of Religion" academics generally do not "join" a cult religion in order to study it and if they "do" join, they are considered to have lost objectivity.

Generally a ground rule in the study of ancient and modern religions is that one must never "only" study the cult itself and the ramblings of apologists of that religion, but also one must consider the positions of the opponents, critics, and apostate cultists (i.e., ex-cultsts), and with regards to Masonry, although it is only one of many cult religions, that have come under my scrutiny, I do believe that I have gone to considerable effort over many years to study your cult and it's history, it's critics and it's ex-cultsts.

Further I take it is an indication of your arrogance that you would claim to know what I know and what I do not know about your cult, unless you have developed mind reading powers, in which case the James Randi Institute has a million dollar reward for anyone who can prove they have such powers; however if you wish to enlighten the forum here about anything significant that I do "not" know about your cult, or which is not in the public domain and which would be of interest to students of cult religions, and which might assist a better understanding of your cult please feel free to do so or to demonstrate your psychic powers. I should point out that the name of you Lodge Master's great, great grandmother's second cousin's dog is of no interest to me and is entirely irrelevant to the general understanding of Masonry and to the context of defendng the stated allegations by your critics.

Lux

______________

Addendum

Originally posted by JoshNorton
If the Shriners spend more than one million dollars a day running their hospitals, and
if, as you claim, they spend MORE of their money on partying than they do running their charity,
then the Shriners are spending more than one million dollars a day on drinking and partying.

Somehow I don't know that their livers could take it.

I have no idea how much it costs to hire function suites, hotels, prostitutes and kindapped sex slaves in America and to put on drunken parties, but that such commodities are expensive is not an argument which negates the allegations. In fact if you read the articles quoted in the OP you will see that one group of 19 Freemasons, for example spent $575,000 on a single tax free weekend bash.

I have personally no idea how much it costs to fly Freemasons down to Latin America on charity funded "fishing trip" where they had sex with child prostitutes. Perhaps "you" could enlighten us as to how much Latino child prostitutes cost. As for myself, I can only refer to the cited articles.

the story from last May about Jesters' "fishing trips" to Brazil that involved at least 19 members and hookers as young as 13."

"The first deposition, 61 pages, was provided by Adilson Garcia da Silva on Sunday, April 13, 2008. He describes how he became a fishing guide, his work history, how marijuana was allegedly obtained for the plaintiffs' clients then began describing how girls, from age 13 on up, were lured into prostitution from Brazilian Indian reservations for the fishing trips' clients. The girls, he said, were hired to provide 'programs' that consisted of 'oral sex, strip and dance contests.'

Question: What is the youngest age that you’re aware of a girl being on the boat as a prostitute?

Answer: My brother would pick up a group of girls in Autazes and would take by boat to an American. One was 13, one was 14, and there was one who was even 9 years old.

......
investigation has grown from dryly describing numbers on non profit tax returns to exposing the Shriners' dirty-little-secret sub-group, the Royal Order of Jesters and their prostitution scandals.

It's been kind of shocking to discover that this American icon has been "misleading the public for years" and then come to find out that some of these Shriner/Jesters have committed sex crimes under the guise of being a non profit group.

You know.

Prostitution at tax payer expense.

Tax returns show that Jesters national spent over $570,000 on one weekend bash.

That's about $11,000 an hour.

sandyfrost.newsvine.com...

Lux

"The criticism of religion is the premise of all criticism" Marx