Wisconsin shows rest of country the real union thuggery going on in this country

reply to post by dl2one


Obama increased the number of troops in Afghanistan for a good reason.
Failure is not an option. The situation will improve in about 2 years.
Now is not the time to cut and run.

Originally posted by Eurisko2012
reply to post by dl2one

 

The situation will improve in about 2 years.

Would you bet your life on that statement? I'd bet my life that if you ask the average afghani, (average, not paid and cozy puppets in the gov't) they would say the outlook does not look good. But who knows, we'll see in two years. Maybe Iraq will be better in two years.

Eurisko2012,

You seem to be very emotionally invested in siding with the right, in regard to the whole left vs.right political fight.
I don't think Obama is any better than Bush--probably worse.

In fact, I don't really believe there really is any left vs. right in this country anymore. The whole neo-liberal vs. neoconservative argument just represents two sides of the same corporatist coin.

I admire your conviction to take a stand against people that waste taxpayer money. However, why not go after the biggest offenders of all--the central bankers that have redistributed the wealth of the middle class upward and outward--to the banks--both domestic and foreign?!

reply to post by nickspm


No one said capitalism was perfect. It's the best system we have right now.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Apparently, Switzerland has figured it out.
Go to Wikipedia and type in Davos, Switzerland.
Check out the unemployment rate.
-------------------------------------------------------
As far as the USA, there IS a left/ right.
Obama walked into the White House and grew the size of our government 20%.
Now he says "OK, lets freeze it right there."
The GOP just this morning passed a bill to cut $60 Billion.
The White House is ignoring the $14 Trillion+ debt AND the HUGE deficit.
GOP/Tea Party = U.S. Government small and limited
Liberals/Progressives = U.S. Government HUGE and out of control
-- Gross Debt to GDP ratio 97%? Who cares??? Lets build some high speed trains! --

Originally posted by Eurisko2012
reply to post by nickspm

 

No one said capitalism was perfect. It's the best system we have right now.

We don't have capitalism any more. Capitalsm meant that your workers got paid enough to buy the product that they manufactured. Labour has been sent overseas from MEXICO! Because labour costs were considered too high!

About 10 years ago, you could land a pair of Nikes in Vancouver for $9...and sell them for over a hundred. It's only worse now. Where do you think the difference goes? Wall Street!

Sorry...capitalism died about the same time as communism, but the West had enough credit to pad the impact. Until recently, anyway. Noticed any home forclosures in your capitalist paradise? Any business failures because your government allowed your manufacturing to go overseas. Blame the banks? Blame the government? No...but there is a guy down the street who still has a good job so better get out the torches and pitchforks!

Just why do folks get in line to stick up for the ones who screwed then, and blame their neighbours instead?

reply to post by JohnnyCanuck


I think Ross Perot would disagree.
Capitalism is alive and well.
The economy is actually doing pretty well.
We just have too many people and not enough jobs.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
All we need right now is "something new".
During the 1990s it was "the Internet".
Google,Yahoo,Amazon, eBay and many others appeared out of nowhere and created large
numbers of high paying jobs.

Originally posted by Eurisko2012
The economy is actually doing pretty well.
We just have too many people and not enough jobs.

I surrender. There's some logic ya just can't fight.

reply to post by robyn


Indeed I do not take issue with you there and I do also believe membership in a union should be optional.

Unions are subject to the same issues as any other large organization and in some cases, even have some RICOH issues in the US.

Eurisko2012,

Switzerland sure figured out capitalism, alright. Unfortunately it was on the backs of those Wisconsin teachers that had to bail out the Swiss banks.

reply to post by dl2one


Not as objective as you only quoting one line from my post.

reply to post by HoldTheBeans


It is easy for people to ask others to tighten their belts and to go without for their benefit, but they quickly shy from the pot and have a thousand excuses when it is their time to ante up. Teachers have families and bills to pay just like everyone else and since they have been under paid for years now when things get extra tight you expect them to do with even less. They are putting up with your children and many of them are so poorly disciplined and behaved that even their parents don’t want to deal with them. If you don’t want to pay to have someone take on the responsibility of your child then keep them home and school them yourselves. For some people this will be an advantage for their children since the lot of most schools are a bunch of angry, rebellious, ignorant and violent children that are a bane to the schools and neighborhoods with parents that could not care less.

People don’t ask the union to come in unless they are being abused and unfairly treated by the administration where they work and are left with no voice, no advocacy and no recourse. The unions may be bad but they are better than what they have. When faced with drowning in an ocean, you can dream of rescue by a yacht but you will cling to a Styrofoam box if floats by.

reply to post by Eurisko2012


I'm sorry dude, I understand what you were trying to say. I support people saying what they feel and believe in a peaceful way.

But.... Dang!

Koch Brothers Behind Wisconsin Effort To Kill Public Unions

blogs.forbes.com...

As the nation focuses on the efforts of Governor Scott Walker to take away collective bargaining rights from public employees in Wisconsin, new information is coming to light that reveals what is truly going on here.

Mother Jones is reporting that much of the funding behind the Walker for Governor campaign came from none other than uber-conservatives, the infamous Koch Brothers.

What’s more, the plan to kill the unions is right out of the Koch Brothers play book.

Koch-backed groups like Americans for Prosperity, the Cato Institute, the Competitive Enterprise Institute, and the Reason Foundation have long taken a very antagonistic view toward public-sector unions. Several of these groups have urged the eradication of these unions. The Kochs also invited Mark Mix, president of the National Right to Work Legal Defense Foundation, an anti-union outfit, to a June 2010 confab in Aspen, Colorado;

Via Mother Jones

UPDATE: The Americans for Prosperity group, a Tea Party group that is a Koch Brothers front, has put up a website and petition called www.standwithwalker.com. The website attacks all collective bargaining – not just for public employees’ unions. Americans for Prosperity is also organizing a rally tomorrow in Wisconsin to support Gov. Walker.

On the local front, you'll notice a number of recently registered shills you are doing nothing more than hyping this "unions are thugs" BS.

reply to post by Blackmarketeer


If we don't wake-up and do something fast we will find ourselves slaves without a hope of freedom.

Our lives will be in the hands of those that see us as less than chattel and even the food that enters our mouths will be at their discretion.

Even if you don't like unions you have to allow people their choice to seek advocacy.

reply to post by Freenrgy2


Well to be fair sir, the rest of your post had nothing worth quoting. That's why I'm assuming only what I quoted was capitalized and bold to begin with?

So, What’s the name of this Union is Wisconsin?

Sounds like they do get quite a lot of free benefits from the state. My wife is a teacher, but not in Wisconsin. The district is union she teaches in. My wife is just shocked how much the state pays into in their benefits in Wisconsin. My wife pays allot towards her retirement fund, medical, dental vision etc. more than some private sector employees do. Then the State my wife works in (NM) is proposing the teachers will have to work for 35 years to get there retirement that they them self’s contribute a good portion of salary to. So the Union here is about to have another big protest in NM. Now that is Truly unfair to teachers and state workers who are about to retire, now they might have to work 10- 15 more years ? So the State of NM is trying to meet the union on this. I’m not a union person, but I do agree with the teachers and state employees in NM that belong to the union. Making them work 10- 15 more years what the… $&^**.


Now if that was happening in Wisconsin (slapping more years on them until they retire) I’m sure the public would be behind them. My wife says those teachers and state working are going to have to pay their fair share sooner or later, if they want to keep their jobs. All states have a law, you walk off you loose employment, so my wife says. She was a Union-Rep at one time, she said any Governor can make that law stick if they want to. I know if the national guard comes in to do your job ,your job is lost. So in my state NM teachers are going to take another drop in pay, then they are talking about layoffs, and increasing the classroom size to almost double. The public is getting involved in this now in support of the teachers, even the public sector knows this is a bad idea in NM. ( doubling classroom size )

The state workers and teachers in Wisconsin cannot let the state change the retirement work years in any circumstance. This is where it will go if the union gives up some collective bargaining. The retirement time might come up like its has in NM and other states, only after the union though they had an agreement. I can see making contribution to the state retirement fund, but extending the time for retirement like they’re trying to do here is not a good Idea. The governor needs too or representative needs to sit down with the unions on this matter and not shove this down there throats. I think that is why the Democrats left and will force the Governor of Wisconsin to do this. So, I can see why the union is having this big protest, they might end up working 10-15 more years if they give up some bargaining like the governor of Wisconsin is asking for. teacher might end up with double the classroom size too.

It’s not only fiscal, but who’s to say the governor might not change classroom size, putting additional work loads on the teachers, like ESL, additional testing for NCLB, things like that, and that stuff requires extra pay because some of that is a specialty for teachers and requires additional certifications that these teachers invest in.

You guys see the point here why they’re protesting. Teaching is not a 9-5 job like some think it is. By giving up the collective bargaining, except for pay the teachers might loose big time in the end. Some states have teachers preforming additional duties now for no pay that there not certified to do. Some have already increased the classroom size. A good example some districts have the standard elementary education teachers, teaching children with special needs, autism, dow syndrome etc, in regular classrooms that they are not qualified to do, in additional to this there trying to teach an overloaded classroom of 35 kids. so ask yourself is this good for my child. ? Then wonder why the schools cannot meet AYP standards.

reply to post by Blackmarketeer


Funny how The Governor is portrayed by Union Officials...........

The MacIver News Service has examined hundreds of pages of public records available through the U.S. Department of Labor and via the online search site Guidestar and found that many of the most prominent union advocates in the state make well in excess of $100,000 a year in salary alone.

For example, Marty Beil, executive director of American Federation of State, County and Municipal Employees (AFSCME )Council 24 SEPAC, made $161,847 in 2008 according to the organization’s Form 990. That’s considerably more than the $144,423 a year Scott Walker makes as Wisconsin’s Governor.



Many (Wisconsin Union Operatives) Who Engage in Class Warfare Rhetoric Earn Six Figure Salaries

Ironic,isnt it??????

Despite this, Beil has repeatedly attempted to portray Walker as a member of some upper class elite. In December, Beil said Walker’s treatment of state employees was like “the plantation owner talking to the slaves.”