Secrets of Our Existence and Universe Unraveled

Originally posted by docpoco
What an incredible description!

If you are lying or mistaken, you still convey it with absolute truth. I am impressed, and hope for all our sakes that the experience you had was genuine.

What a complete waste of time all of this is, if once we die that's it.

I would like to recommend a book to you call "The God Theory". I really think you could connect with it.

Thanks for reading. I know it's very difficult for some people to trust, but I am not lying about having this experience. I tried to describe it as best as I could in words. Everything I described is the way I saw it. Now.... whether or not it gave me a glimpse of any "truth", I couldn't possibly tell you that. To me it felt true, but I have no proof, I can't even imagine where I would obtain proof of it happening, and even if I felt I had proof, people would still find ways to disbelieve. For this reason I cautioned readers ahead of time and asked all of you to make of it whatever you want. In the end only I know what I experienced and saw, which is enough for me,.... but I would be lying if I said it didn't feel good to be believed.

reply to post by 2manyquestions


I fail to see how the gift of "free will" can be manifested in your mind as such... When asked how will we find heaven? How do we get there? Jesus responded in a way that shows GOD and his kingdom as separate from this entire universe... He says something like "even when man can count all the stars of the universe, and can travel back and forth from them he will never find Heaven" or "I am the light and the way no man may come to the Father except through me"

Originally posted by Gorman91
Major flaw in your thought process: You would not need such a machine if time was not existent. Why create possibilities if you are outside time and can see them all already?

Hmmm.... interesting question. I hope I didn't suggest that IT can already see the outcome of everything that is going to happen. That is not the impression I got. I may have confused people when I stated that it is "all-knowing". I should have clarified that by "all-knowing" I meant that everything you or I ever experience, IT experiences them too, because IT is you. If you're alone in a dark tunnel where nobody can see or hear you and you slip and fall, IT will know, because IT experiences everything through you. In that sense, it is all-knowing.

Now about time; I did not ask this question during the experience, in fact there are many questions that many people have mentioned so far which I did not think to ask. The possibilities I witnessed being generated were so many, that they were only a momentary flicker of light being born and swallowed, a bit like a grain of dust being caught in a tornado. If each of those possibilities represented one human lifetime, then time as we know it couldn't possibly exist in this place the way it does in our physical reality. If time in this place is not linear, then all those specks of light could have easily been next to each other within that spinning donut-like shape, yet seconds, months, years or centuries apart from each other, simply playing out a new scenario, therefore creating a new possibility at any given time or year on earth. Obviously I don't have a better answer for you. If what I saw was the way things are, then I'm sure there is still a lot to be asked and a lot to be understood. It simply may be beyond my (and your) human brain to comprehend the complexities that exist outside our reality. I'll definitely put this on my list of questions.

Originally posted by ValValient4
reply to post by 2manyquestions

 

I fail to see how the gift of "free will" can be manifested in your mind as such... When asked how will we find heaven? How do we get there? Jesus responded in a way that shows GOD and his kingdom as separate from this entire universe... He says something like "even when man can count all the stars of the universe, and can travel back and forth from them he will never find Heaven" or "I am the light and the way no man may come to the Father except through me"

This actually could be given us evidence that heaven is not something outside of us...we could search all the universe and still not find it may suggest that heaven is a 'state of being' and may explain why he said the kingdom is within.

When Jesus lived more for Spirit...he 'was the light' so to say and that no man may come to the father except through him may be suggesting something along the lines of something else he said which was 'pick up your own cross and follow me'.....saying, what I do, you too must be willing and have understanding in.

Just thoughts, and hope the OP does not feel like Im trying to over run a comment that was replied for him/her....just offering and sharing and hope others give their thoughts just the same.

Maybe being willing to 'offer' the life of flesh for the life of spirit....being willing to not live only for glory for the self but live for glory for the whole...may be a attributes that are needed...to reach spiritual understanding or insight.

Originally posted by RANDOMguess
reply to post by 2manyquestions

 

What I'm saying is you don't just bump into god...If In fact you met him you were chosen. Thought that was pretty simple.

Well, let's just make it clear that I didn't insinuate I was "chosen". You did.

"This Universe was not what we believe it to be. It performed a function, and that function was to constantly generate new possibilities." Then you go in to say "the Universe was like a giant calculator/generator producing infinite possibilities through complex mathematical equations"

If the universe is producing infinite possibility's that means it would cover everything and if it covers everything no one thing is planned because its all going to happen so its RANDOM. So yeah I did read the entire post.

edit on 16-2-2011 by RANDOMguess because: (no reason given)

Again, I don't feel it was "random", but I suppose in some ways that argument could be made. Does infinite possibilities = anything is possible? I don't know.

reply to post by 2manyquestions


Very similar experience i had once on Salvia. I suspect that or '___' allowed you to have this vision, am i correct? If thats the case you cannot put much stock into this.

If Heaven was within yourself and you are within the universe and you are GOD, how is it you are unable to get there or find it? Do you really believe this? Also if all this was true we would have to live the life of of all including Jesus... why is it that population lvls are increasing should we not have on earth at all times an equal amount of souls then? Imagine the timeframe required to live as all things... Why did Christ die for our sins if all we have to do is wait our turn to incarnate as him? And say your second in line could 1 billion years be an exceptable timeframe for the long wait in the queue? Id hate to be 3rd in line let alone last...

a clear example of how "a Kingdom divided upon itself cannot stand"...

Originally posted by LeoVirgo

Originally posted by ValValient4
reply to post by 2manyquestions

 

I fail to see how the gift of "free will" can be manifested in your mind as such... When asked how will we find heaven? How do we get there? Jesus responded in a way that shows GOD and his kingdom as separate from this entire universe... He says something like "even when man can count all the stars of the universe, and can travel back and forth from them he will never find Heaven" or "I am the light and the way no man may come to the Father except through me"

This actually could be given us evidence that heaven is not something outside of us...we could search all the universe and still not find it may suggest that heaven is a 'state of being' and may explain why he said the kingdom is within.

When Jesus lived more for Spirit...he 'was the light' so to say and that no man may come to the father except through him may be suggesting something along the lines of something else he said which was 'pick up your own cross and follow me'.....saying, what I do, you too must be willing and have understanding in.

Just thoughts, and hope the OP does not feel like Im trying to over run a comment that was replied for him/her....just offering and sharing and hope others give their thoughts just the same.

Maybe being willing to 'offer' the life of flesh for the life of spirit....being willing to not live only for glory for the self but live for glory for the whole...may be a attributes that are needed...to reach spiritual understanding or insight.

No worries. I think you put it nicely. I'll be honest, I wasn't sure I understood what ValValiant4 was trying to say, particularly about free will. If he/she could rephrase that, maybe I would understand better. Val, if you're reading this, try to rephrase it for me. Thanks.

I think to give up your life of flesh for a life of spirit is beyond any of us to escape or elude of this I am certain as we will all experience physical death... A dangerous doctrine you are putting your faith into... It can be described best as Blasphemy... j

Originally posted by ValValient4
If Heaven was within yourself and you are within the universe and you are GOD, how is it you are unable to get there or find it? Do you really believe this?

This is all hypothetical, but the way I understand it is that we are fragments of the whole. As fragments we are experiencing this world in a way that the whole could not experience without (pretty much) dissecting itself. Picture it as a battle within yourself. You and I are two pieces of the whole, separated for a time-being so that we may learn from what we experience in this world. I imagine that once we have completed our cycle, we are then reunited with the whole, only to choose to come back to play out a different scenario from which to learn.

Also if all this was true we would have to live the life of of all including Jesus... why is it that population lvls are increasing should we not have on earth at all times an equal amount of souls then? Imagine the timeframe required to live as all things... Why did Christ die for our sins if all we have to do is wait our turn to incarnate as him? And say your second in line could 1 billion years be an exceptable timeframe for the long wait in the queue? Id hate to be 3rd in line let alone last...

a clear example of how "a Kingdom divided upon itself cannot stand"...

No. You understood wrong. You are imagining this scenario taking place under the constriction of time as we see it here on earth. Time is irrelevant outside of our world. Time is a tool we use here to gauge our existence. Out there time doesn't exist in the same way that it does here. We as trillions upon trillions of particles are not standing in line to relive the life of Jesus, or Cleopatra, or Marcus Aurelius. There is no line to stand in. All these possibilities are being generated with unimaginable speed. What is 50 years to you is only a momentary flicker out there. All this (of course) assuming that my experience provided true insight.

From what I have gathered it is like our lives is an image of who we are in the spirit and like it says, I knew you from before the foundation of all these things. The question is what is the purpose of the flesh and physical experience. Is this seperation to change something in the spirit perhaps to show something?

People who do not accept the sacrifice never did, although we have free will to change the outcome, but only by his power because maybe this was the perfect life, fufilling of destiny, the lively hope.

(Blessed [be] the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you,)



Jesus was the only one who was found without sin, blameless. I wonder , if our spirits are infinite, than it would be quick that we would be tried and fail, he could stand where everyone failed.

(And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb: For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?)

reply to post by 2manyquestions


Great post, sounds like a fantastic experience you had. I'm still trying to achieve a very deep meditative state like this and trying to decalcify my pineal gland hoping to have a similar experience. Everything you described resonates with the beliefs I currently hold. You may also enjoy the philosophy of Alan Watts (lots on youtube). He comes to almost identical conclusions to yours and describes the logic and reasoning through which he arrives there.

By the way, I don't think the Christians on here could ever completely comprehend what you try to explain to them.

reply to post by nightbringr

I suspect that or '___' allowed you to have this vision, am i correct? If thats the case you cannot put much stock into this.

Of course '___' is what allows this (produced by the brain within the brain). I would argue against not being able to put much stock into it. '___' is believed by many (intellectuals) to be the spirit molecule. Is '___' the only chemical your brain produces that you wouldn't put much stock into? When your brain produces the chemicals that make you feel emotions do you put much stock in the thoughts you experience then? The current combination of chemicals in your brain (created within your brain or otherwise) is due to many factors but it is causing you to create (an illusion of) a reality for yourself within your own skull (vastly different to what truly IS), why do you put so much stock into that?

reply to post by Azp420


I dont know what Christians your referring to, the only ones that concern God are the ones who understand and observe his workings, stay studying the word to understand the things of God and believe truly. Which can only be understood through the only begotten son. Im sure to someone as yourself it sounds like ramblings. But I'm a Christian by the will of God and the Son only. Trust me our lives are worked out to the most intricate detail because I witnessed fractions of its glory.


But trust me friend I've been researching psychedelics since I was 16, Im 21 now. I know most of the pyschonaughts you would reference, I was an avid Mckenna fan. Studied ancient civilizations, geometry, government, and alien technology, biology, seeked to know the purpose of life and whats going on truly, and all that is brought to a speck of dust in Gods eyes. Its meaningless.

(But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousness are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.)


You see eyes everywhere on '___' because you seeing what the spirit sees. The observation of the spirit which is itself. Hence God sees all things.

(But take ye heed: behold, I have foretold you all things.)

To deny the sacrifice of the son is like denying gods entire purpose for your life the best way I could put it.


1Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.

2Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:

3And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

4Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

5They are of the world: therefore speak they of the world, and the world heareth them.

6We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.

7Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God.

8He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.

9In this was manifested the love of God toward us, because that God sent his only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through him.

10Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins.

11Beloved, if God so loved us, we ought also to love one another.

12No man hath seen God at any time. If we love one another, God dwelleth in us, and his love is perfected in us.

13Hereby know we that we dwell in him, and he in us, because he hath given us of his Spirit.

14And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Saviour of the world.

15Whosoever shall confess that Jesus is the Son of God, God dwelleth in him, and he in God.

16And we have known and believed the love that God hath to us. God is love; and he that dwelleth in love dwelleth in God, and God in him.

17Herein is our love made perfect, that we may have boldness in the day of judgment: because as he is, so are we in this world.

18There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love.

19We love him, because he first loved us.

20If a man say, I love God, and hateth his brother, he is a liar: for he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen, how can he love God whom he hath not seen?

21And this commandment have we from him, That he who loveth God love his brother also.

reply to post by 2manyquestions




Dude. The way you are describing this makes me scared, using IT. That's the same way I describe a character in something I'm trying to make. It was a networked intelligence a galactic arm across. It called itself IT, as it was neither he nor she, and it knew of God, but claimed just to be the closest thing physically possible to being God in reality. The thing would communicate with its past and future self through a temporal transmitter device. It could send mass and energy into the past, use it, and then send the used parts back to the past to use on conjecture with the matter's past self. It could sum up huge quantities of this re-used mass and energy and could open up alternate dimensions and universes and run whole simulations in them. Due to its mastery over time, it could enclose a collection of mass in a time lock and make it go very fast, so that in a matter of seconds, an asteroid belt could experience a billion years, becoming a planet and producing life.It was quite literally a god, but it knew itself not to be one.

The scary thing is this thing could inject nanites into people on planets and the nanites would set up a small quantum communicator in the brain, so it could spy on the society and civilization. And if needed, tell the nanites to breed and take over the being. Occasionally it could save the being by transmitting the brain waves to itself and saving them, so the person never really died.

Originally posted by Gorman91
reply to post by 2manyquestions

 

Dude. The way you are describing this makes me scared, using IT. That's the same way I describe a character in something I'm trying to make.

Well,... I called it "IT" for the same reason you did. It was neither he or she, and it was both all at the same time. It was difficult to describe. I didn't know what else to call it. Stephen King calls his killer clown "It", but there's no resemblance here.

That's quite a story you're putting together, by the way. Thanks for sharing!

reply to post by EnigmaticDill

I dont know what Christians your referring to

I should apologise, no offense intended, it's just that IMO it takes a particular mindset to be able to completely come to terms with the concepts presented by the OP and IMO the Christian mindset is almost opposite to that which is required (and very rigid).

Im sure to someone as yourself it sounds like ramblings.

I have trouble accepting something as truth based on faith alone. It must resonate with my own logic and reasoning.

Trust me our lives are worked out to the most intricate detail because I witnessed fractions of its glory.

So is your life worked out to the most intricate detail or do you have free-will?

To deny the sacrifice of the son is like denying gods entire purpose for your life the best way I could put it.

So god is like a director and all his actors on earth must live according to some purpose he has created for his own amusement? What about free-will?


As for the bible quotes, just because a man has written something down doesn't mean I accept that as truth or fact.

reply to post by Azp420


'___' has never been scientifically proven to be released from the brain at the time of death. It is only suspected.

The reason I say that you cannot put much stock into what was said is the very nature of psychedelics.

I've experienced somthing very similar to the OP myself. And I've also experienced things of a much more sinister nature. They all felt equally "real".

I could go on for hours about my experiences, but I'll sum it up in saying while I first thought very much like the OP, further experimentation has led me to believe it is simply our mind spinning out of control and making up things we both suspect to be real. I believe our personal beliefs influence what we experience.

A Hindu can reach Nirvana, a Christian heaven or hell. And everything in between.

reply to post by nightbringr

'___' has never been scientifically proven to be released from the brain at the time of death. It is only suspected.

I never said it was, I highly suspect it is though.

I believe our personal beliefs influence what we experience.

For sure, I agree with the jist of your post. The same is also true for everyday "reality" however. It is a hallucination created by the mind based on its beliefs and current chemical composition. But it feels so "real" and everybody says it is real so it must be real right?

IMO this type of deep meditation and psychedelic use is merely (probably not the right word) a tool to experience ourselves and experience our consciousness from a different perspective. There is nothing being taught to us from a "higher up" because there is no higher up than ourselves! We are teaching ourselves (much like in the film Waking Life if you have seen it) in ways the normal state of consciousness can't. There is no doubt what we experience is influenced by our beliefs and human inability to perceive what really IS, but this is no different to the everyday experiences we believe to be so real. The great thing about the brain being under psychedelics is that beliefs, preconceptions and paradigms are stripped down far more and much more easily than under normal consciousness. IMO this gets us closer to "god" and allows our thoughts to be much more honest, reasonable and true.

Also, who's to say what particular chemical composition of the brain is the "correct" one for experiencing true reality? IMO perceiving consciousness and the universe through a broad spectrum of perceptions, paradigms and states of consciousness etc will allow you to experience reality or learn what really is to a far greater truth than the narrow spectrum that everyday consciousness allows.

A worthy attempt to describe an experience transcending the limits of language. Ten years ago while in deep meditation for some 4 hours there was this Sun: White, Brilliant and Everywhere; It Was I was not. It was watching for how long I don't know. The I that I refer to as I noticed the watcher and immediately it vanished. What I could not shake was the realization this Sun is hidden in plane site. It's always right in my face but except for that moment it remains concealed. To this day I am more certain of its existance than my own.

No-thing masquerading as many.

Best Wishes.

Wow so some mod decided to put this in the grey area... Sigh! This is perhaps one of the best threads I have ever read in the metaphysics and philosophy section paralleling much of the Ancient esoteric teachings and wisdom from the bible to Buddha and beyond. Sparking some of the best conversation and comments, yet some mod took it upon his or herself to classify it as just another personal story that is unverifiable.

I must say this is the first time I have really been disappointed in a member of the staff of ATS even though I have no idea who it is. I have to wonder if said mod had some personal belief challenged by this discussion and that was the influencing factor... I was about to invite a group I am involved in to read the thread for the first time as I also thought they would be interested in the metaphysical section however with some of the crazy stuff that passes for supposed metaphysical discussion there that probably warrants being in the grey area I was hesitant till this thread.