Mother shot twice with a Taser after she was arrested for leaving baby in car to go to tanning salon

reply to post by Vampiri


That idea might work in vampire kingdom. She was old and wise enough to spread her legs, so she took responsibility, if she is to dumb to take care of a kid, well she had a choice . And what did you expect her dad to do? Follow his daughter around to stop her from having " RELATIONS". Wake up. You would of said her parents were violating her civil rights if they tried to stop her. BUT ITS OK TO ABANDONED A CHILD IN A CAR, Is it? Hypocryte

Originally posted by Vampiri
F**K TASER WIELDING COPS!!

Anyways, she definatly deserved some form of punishment for risking the childs life like that but tasers? NO!
Regarding the question if she should lose the baby or "the right to bear children" well NO. If her parents are not able to help care for it or help teach her how to care for it then she needs help from somewhere else.
Taking the baby away is not helping, if she was not cared for properly as a child her self then how would she know how to care for a child? No one just "knows" how to do this and everyone that needs it should get coursing and help on how to care for a child!

edit on 15-2-2011 by Vampiri because: (no reason given)

Yes they do "know". Unless her IQ is the same as a snails she knows.

Dr. Spock doesn't come home with any of us. Blaming it on how one was raised is a cop outIMO. If you were neglected as a child then you should have double the reason not to neglect your own. I'm not saying people don't have issues. I am saying not everyone who does this has issues. Selfishness plays a huge role.

19 is no excuse either. I was married and had a child as soon as I turned 20. We keep looking to give people excuses for poor behavior. It doesn't always have to be a person with mental instabilities. Just a selfish one.

Owners Manuals don't come with any child. That's why we were blessed with common sense. We don't need to be members of MENSA to figure out that a child left alone in a running car+a carjacker=Not A Good Outcome.

reply to post by DimensionalDetective


i think the girl leaving her child in the car is a horrible thing to do. I also think it is ridiculous that an officer, or however many, cannot detain a suspect of 19 without a tazer. Even that kid running around on the Phillies field, that the officer had to taze cause they couldnt subdue a little punk having some fun.. Its horrible. This whole story is just horrible.

reply to post by Vicky32


Im glad things turned out good for you. Im still trying to sort mine out. Thanks for sharing. And good luck in your future.

reply to post by meathed

Originally posted by meathed
reply to post by Vampiri

 

That idea might work in vampire kingdom. She was old and wise enough to spread her legs, so she took responsibility, if she is to dumb to take care of a kid, well she had a choice . And what did you expect her dad to do? Follow his daughter around to stop her from having " RELATIONS". Wake up. You would of said her parents were violating her civil rights if they tried to stop her. BUT ITS OK TO ABANDONED A CHILD IN A CAR, Is it? Hypocryte

edit on 15-2-2011 by meathed because: (no reason given)

The hell are you talking about?
Did you even read what i wrote as it seems from your reply that you did not?
Where did i say or imply that it was "ok" to abondon a baby in ones car?
Where did i say or imply that there should be no reprecussions for her?

The only thing i object to in this case is;
1: The use of a taser on a unarmed 19 year old girl.
2: The permanent withdrawl of her baby without some serious help or education on how to care for it.


3:and of course the fact that she left the child in the first place however i was originally posting about the polices response and the method of arrest not the obvious stupidty of the girl.

Originally posted by Myendica
I also think it is ridiculous that an officer, or however many, cannot detain a suspect of 19 without a tazer.

Especially an unarmed skinny female. This is where basic JUDO JUJUTSU AIKIDO training should come in.

and that book title I promised:

Three Little Words by Ashley Rhodes Courter

I felt as worthless as the junk in my trash bag . . . once again, I was the one being tossed out and thrown away.” Taken from her mother when she was scarcely four years old, Rhodes-Courter spent the next nine years in foster care with “more than a dozen so-called mothers.” “Some were kind,” she acknowledges, “a few were quirky and one . . . was as wicked as a fairy-tale witch.” She names names in this memoir, which is also a searing indictment of an often sadly deficient system of child care. Given her experiences, one can understand why she is angry and often bitter, but the unrelieved stridency of her tone makes for sometimes difficult reading.

A review:
www.teenreads.com...

And in this excellent page turner, she gives vibrant voice to those voiceless, helpless children caught in this nightmare, giving us insight into a national tragedy. I highly recommend her heartbreaking and inspiring memoir.

You can visit Amazon.com yourself... type "foster biography" for many other titles highlighting the failed foster care system and the children locked in the system when their parents catch a few petty charges.

enjoy!

Sri Oracle

reply to post by DimensionalDetective


Finally, an appropriate use of the tazer! I don't think twice was enough, and I bet the police were just praying that she would resist in this case! I have to admit I have left my kids in the car, with it running, while I ran into a convenience store for a quick second, and I could see the car the whole time, but to be locked in a tanning bed for 20 minutes? That is very poor parenting and very poor decision making, and a little shock treatment seems appropriate!

Originally posted by getreadyalready
Finally, an appropriate use of the tazer! [] That is very poor parenting and very poor decision making, and a little shock treatment seems appropriate!

I think that mentality is sick. And you have no idea what the appropriate use of a taser is.

en.wikipedia.org...

Under U.S. law the fleeing felon rule was limited to non-lethal force in most cases by Tennessee v. Garner, 471 U.S. 1 (1985). The justices held that deadly force "may not be used unless necessary to prevent the escape and the officer has probable cause to believe that the suspect poses a significant threat of death or serious physical injury to the officer or others.

www.rawstory.com...

Amnesty International found 351 Taser-related deaths in the US between June, 2001 and August, 2008, a rate of just slightly above four deaths per month.

And we're not even talking about a fleeing felon. We're talking about a petty misdemeanor.

What happened to innocent until PROVEN guilty. What happened to a fair trial and justice?

You are encouraging police brutality and lawlessness.

Use of any force exceeding that reasonably necessary to accomplish a lawful police purpose is by definition BRUTALITY.

Wrestle her to the ground and cuff her. Don't risk a mother's life using a potentially fatal tazing over petty neglect and resisting arrest (and seperation from her baby).

Sri Oracle

Originally posted by Kangaruex4Ewe

Originally posted by Vampiri
F**K TASER WIELDING COPS!!

Anyways, she definatly deserved some form of punishment for risking the childs life like that but tasers? NO!
Regarding the question if she should lose the baby or "the right to bear children" well NO. If her parents are not able to help care for it or help teach her how to care for it then she needs help from somewhere else.
Taking the baby away is not helping, if she was not cared for properly as a child her self then how would she know how to care for a child? No one just "knows" how to do this and everyone that needs it should get coursing and help on how to care for a child!

edit on 15-2-2011 by Vampiri because: (no reason given)

Yes they do "know". Unless her IQ is the same as a snails she knows.

Dr. Spock doesn't come home with any of us. Blaming it on how one was raised is a cop outIMO. If you were neglected as a child then you should have double the reason not to neglect your own. I'm not saying people don't have issues. I am saying not everyone who does this has issues. Selfishness plays a huge role.

19 is no excuse either. I was married and had a child as soon as I turned 20. We keep looking to give people excuses for poor behavior. It doesn't always have to be a person with mental instabilities. Just a selfish one.

Owners Manuals don't come with any child. That's why we were blessed with common sense. We don't need to be members of MENSA to figure out that a child left alone in a running car+a carjacker=Not A Good Outcome.

Curse my quick posting ok let me refrease from "no one" to "not everyone".

Being neglegted as a child(not to the point of abuse but to the point of extreme strictness) would, imo make one less prone to neglecting their child in turn.

What i meant was that if one is completely spoiled and constantly got your own way as a child then imo one would be less prone to being able to care for a childs actuall needs, without education.

As being spoiled(getting everthing you want all the time) during ones upbringing would, imo eliminate the ability to reason between what is needed for nuture and what is wanted.

Again not everyone but a lot of people of this generation i believe (and i think you know as well) are coming into maturity(or age of parenting) with less and less common-sense... This, i believe is from more and more lack of parents having the time to spend raising their kids, not having the time to properly nurture their common-sense but instead siting them infront of Mtv and the like!

reply to post by Sri Oracle


I guess all of your "what happened to..." went out the door with good parenting, personal responsibility, and common sense. Maybe if we find one, we can find them all?

I don't think you need a judge and a jury to see that some idiot walked away from a car, left an infant inside, and went into a tanning salon for 30 minutes. Besides, she resisted arrest, so they police were justified in their usage. Just because they might have been hoping she would resist, and getting some enjoyment out of her pain doesn't mean they acted inappropriately.

Like I said, I have left a sleeping baby in a car, for a very short minute or two, because I didn't want to wake the baby, but they were never out of my sight! And I am a father, and not all that domesticated, so if I know better, then every mother in the world should really know better!

Originally posted by getreadyalready
I don't think you need a judge and a jury to see that some idiot walked away from a car, left an infant inside, and went into a tanning salon for 30 minutes.

That is so anti social, illegal, and wrong on so many levels. Do we live in a civilized society or is this mob rule?

Besides, she resisted arrest, so they police were justified in their usage.

How so? Were you there? Did she take a "boxer stance"? There clear protocols on the use of a taser and simply "resisting" is not one of them.

Police Chief Magazine

As conveyed above, most agencies do not allow the CED to be used against a subject who refuses, without physical force, to comply with commands.

Just because they might have been hoping she would resist, and getting some enjoyment out of her pain doesn't mean they acted inappropriately.

Where is the honor and integrity in that statement? That would be borderline objective entrapment and is clearly sadistic schadenfreude.

O n my honor

On my honor,
I will never betray my badge,
my integrity, my character,
or the public trust.
I will always have
the courage to hold myself
and others accountable for our actions.
I will always uphold the constitution
my community and the agency I serve.

Sri Oracle

reply to post by Sri Oracle


All good points, but in the grand scheme of things, I still have no empathy for this woman.

Sometimes cops do misuse their tazer, and their authority. Sometimes the wrong people get hurt, but I don't believe this is one of those times.

When we look at all interactions between police and public, literally millions of times per day, the few reports of abuse are astronomically low. Especially when considering that every single interaction is potentially confrontational in nature.

Luckily, I am not one of those officers on the street, and I don't have to make those decisions with all the legal implications, I only make decisions for myself, and if I was a witness to this entire event, I would have cheered for the tazer!

Originally posted by getreadyalready
All good points, [] I still have no empathy for this woman. [] I would have cheered for the tazer!

Well then.... I agree to disagree.

its all in what you call it,

Sri Oracle

Originally posted by getreadyalready
Luckily, I am not one of those officers on the street, and I don't have to make those decisions with all the legal implications, I only make decisions for myself, and if I was a witness to this entire event, I would have cheered for the tazer!

...agree to disagree aside...

I cannot resist.

hypothetical:

The big storm just rolled through... you're shipwrecked; perhaps an island. Many dead, no sign of help arriving any time soon. Known survivors to yourself: You, a mother w/ a 7 month old, two other moms with 3 kids each, and 1 tough-guy-suvivalist-vigilante-type who was ranking crew on the ship. Resources are scarce, almost everything you knew except the ocean is destroyed. Mother of the baby has been found to have left her baby strapped into a carseat, taking a nap inside a makeshift shelter while she is out laying in the sun near the crashing waves; recovering from her ordeal. You survived the shipwreck with a taser in your pocket. Do you offer it to the tough guy and suggest he use it to detain the baby's mom? With the smell of death around you and dead bodies washing ashore, do you cheer when her body seizes, flailing with muscle spasms after the tough guy tases her while coming between her and her baby, which she believed was safe? Is there a better solution? What does your honor, your character, your integrity, and your commitment to your fellow survivors beg of you?

We are all on the banks of a great river, surviving with limited resources; everything else is an illusion.

Sri Oracle

reply to post by Sri Oracle


The big storm just rolled through... you're shipwrecked; perhaps an island. Many dead, no sign of help arriving any time soon. Known survivors to yourself: You, mother and 7 month old, two other moms with 3 kids each, and 1 tough-guy-suvivalist-vigilante-type. Resources are scarce, almost everything you knew except the ocean is destroyed. Mother of the baby has been found to have left her baby strapped into a carseat, taking a nap inside a makeshift shelter while she is out laying in the sun. You survived the ordeal with a taser in your pocket. Do you offer it to the tough guy and suggest he use it to detain the baby's mom?





Your example sucks...so I took the liberty to fix it:

The big storm just rolled through... you're shipwrecked with Sri Oracle. Resources are scarce, except you find a tazer in your pocket. After 5 minutes of talking with Sri Oracle you decide to use the tazer on him. Do you tazer him to relieve yourself of his company temporarily, or do you tazer him and set him adrift..?


The second option...

Originally posted by facelift

you're shipwrecked with Sri Oracle.[] you tazer him and set him adrift..

Thanks for your meaningful contribution buddy. Good looking out. Someone even gave you a star for that. Woohoo. The popularity of your childish attack speaks volumes to the popularity of the "I'd cheer" mentality.

Even though every individual possesses the truth, when he gets together in a crowd, untruth will be present at once, for the crowd is untruth. It either produces impenitence and irresponsibility or it weakens the individual's sense of responsibility by placing it in a fractional category.

- Soren Kierkegaard

Originally posted by undo
btw, i thought it was the general concensus of ATS, that tasers were inhumane. a bit odd that it's suddenly okay to use on a young mom (even if she's not a shining example of motherhood, tasering and potentially killing her should not be an option.)

edit on 14-2-2011 by undo because: (no reason given)

I agree with you about the Taser.
This young woman should be punished in a court of law for this despicable act but why the hell is everyone so " alright " with her being Tasered ?
It`s one of the most Inhumane weapons that we have allowed police forces to use !
It`s really shocked me to see how many people here on ATS agree that Tasers should be used ANYONE !

reply to post by lambros56


You're absolutely right.

There are too many people on this thread who are letting their emotions get in the way of a logical appraisal of the situation.

It appears that some people are selectively approving of the use of tasers solely based upon how bad they think the alleged crime committed was.

The woman leaving her child in the car and her getting tasered by the police are two completely separate issues.

She got tased because she was being fractious and aggressive, not because she left her baby in the car !


In this case, I think what she did was irresponsible and selfish, but I also strongly denounce the heavy-handed police tactics used in arresting her.

How difficult can it be for big, grown LEOs to successfully subdue a young woman without the need to use a weapon ?

She wasn't tasered "just because." She ATTACKED a police officer and resisted arrest. If I were attacked by a screaming banshee I'd defend myself, too.

reply to post by Sri Oracle



LOL. Leaving a baby safely strapped in a car seat, in your own shelter, while you are just outside the door relaxing from an ordeal is fine, and happens often at home.

Leaving a baby strapped into a car seat, abandoned in a parking lot among unknown strangers, while you are seperated by at least two doors and entirely out of sight and sound, so that you can tan is ridiculous and not equivalent to your example.

Why not take the car seat inside and ask the attendant to watch the baby? Why not go to a gym to tan, where they also have a daycare facility? Why not tan some other time? A baby is a responsibility, and sometimes they are inconvenient, and as a parent, you just deal with that inconvenience.

Since you like hypotheticals: What if the car had died and the baby had cooked? What if a thief saw a running car and took it? What if a distraught mother saw the baby and took it? What if nothing happened at all, but the baby woke up and screamed for 30 minutes, feeling abandoned, and a similar situation repeated itself over and over for the next 12-15 years until that baby finally found some love in a local gang, and came and robbed your house and killed your spouse as his initiation?