Dome Of The Rock UFO: Hoaxes Are Easy - Extended Discussion.

Why did we have to chose between genuine and hoaxed UFOs? Has no one here ever heard of ball lightning? UFOs are often confused with it.

If I had to choose between the first two possibilities, I certainly would not choose all hoaxed videos merely because one video definitely was (that's a non sequitur) and because there were no independent witnesses (that merely means there was no confirmatory evidence, not that the videos were hoaxed (another non sequitur). Rather, I think ball lightning is the most plausible explanation. The electromagnetic field surrounding these spheres of hot plasma is very strong and it could have caused arcing between electrical components in the huge generators moved to the Temple Mount on the 25th January - shown here:.
www.israelnationalnews.com...
This would explain the lightning-like flash of light. The short-circuiting would have shut off the power immediately, causing the natural electrostatic field in the atmosphere (about 100 volts/metre)
amsglossary.allenpress.com...
to accelerate the negatively charged ball lightning up into the air, now that the electrical field emanating from the generators, which had attracted it towards them, was turned off by the short circuit.
Creating a video that approximates what was observed is not the same thing as providing proof of fakery. In the absence of any real evidence of the latter for ALL videos, the scientific explanation of ball lightning seems to me to be the most credible one.

SkepticOverlord

Please send me an article like that...I seriously have not read it. Why do you think I've been so obsessed over this story? I can't find a single objective unbiased analysis of the video in any news story or forum. But if I missed it, please show me!!!

reply to post by SkepticOverlord


Hey, I'm really leaning toward you not being a disinfo agent. Especially since you opened up this thread!!! But if you were a disinfo agent, traffic to this web site I don't think would be on your agenda.

Just sayin'. ; )

Originally posted by SkepticOverlord

Originally posted by FOXMULDER147
In reality there could be many more.

And where are those witnesses who saw a bright light descend from on high down to one of the holiest, most-photographed, most-visited, and most-guarded places on the planet?

You don't know if the object was visible from below. You are assuming it was. You don't know how many people were in the surrounding hills on a cold February night at 1am (probably not as many as you think).

Originally posted by SkepticOverlord
And please... the "media cover-up" angle on this is just silly. The "media" is an entertainment outlet (yes, especially the news) seeking ratings, eyeballs, and top ad revenue above all else. An extraordinary story of a stunning glowing light descending on the Dome of The Rock in Old Jerusalem would be an earth-shattering sensational story every outlet would not just embrace, but exploit to its fullest -- if true.

It's not true. Therefore, no media exploitation.

Hmm... who mentioned a media cover up? It's interesting that you would bring that up. But now that you have...

Your point that a "media cover up" is "silly" because of the "ratings" and "revenue" they stand to make out of it is thoroughly unconvincing. If this event was true it would be the most significant event in human history; it would change the world. The reality of the past 5000+ years is at stake. In the face of this, what are ratings and revenue?

If true, SO, this goes beyond you and me and beyond Starbucks and Subway. Way beyond.

reply to post by hootlj

Where is Paradigm2012 btw? Before ATS deleted/404ed the HOAX thread (temporarily that one night), this person said they were working on details to crack case open. They never posted in newly opened thread, but have logged in since. Seems they would have chimed in by now, regardless of if they had info on the topic...

It was a bait and troll thread started by a troll. He had no findings just red herring. I am guessing he was probably banned for T&S reasons. Suspected to be a certain spammer associated with this hoax and hoax tabloid web site. I willing to bet that is the case. Said hoax publicist is known to do these things.

We do have a problem, though, that could affect any other "investigation" on this site.

All of us are wise enough to realize there is disinformation. And that if there are real aliens visiting us, there would be disinformation about such things...which would mean witnesses WOULD be silenced, evidence WOULD be suppressed, and red herrings WOULD be thrown out there.

So, how do you we uncover this stuff? Do we need to look at things through the "cover up" lens, and then investigate? Or assume there's never a cover up, and never investigate?

I am honestly asking. On a site like this, we have tremendous potential to pool people's research skills, and general skills, to uncover a lot. But disinformation, especially when it's as easy to do (aliens/UFO community) is a reality. How do we properly deal with that reality??? Isn't the best thing to do to collectively explore every corner of the web, looking for those little details and clues?

How To Fake UFOs (with the help of government funding)



Seems the only way to be able to say it's a UFO anymore is if it's announced by someone who has a degree in video editing & analysis.

Originally posted by hootlj
SkepticOverlord

I can't find a single objective unbiased analysis of the video in any news story or forum. But if I missed it, please show me!!!

What would you consider as a single objective unbiased analysis of the video in any news story or forum ?

One that would tell you what you want to hear?

Originally posted by hootlj
We do have a problem, though, that could affect any other "investigation" on this site.

All of us are wise enough to realize there is disinformation. And that if there are real aliens visiting us, there would be disinformation about such things...which would mean witnesses WOULD be silenced, evidence WOULD be suppressed, and red herrings WOULD be thrown out there.

Disinformation in the form of a hoax, a tabloid style hoax web site ANW and viral spammer. Disinfo comes as your freind, distracting you from real footage while immersed in his CGI hoax.

So, how do you we uncover this stuff? Do we need to look at things through the "cover up" lens, and then investigate? Or assume there's never a cover up, and never investigate?

Actual witnesses , physical evidence and participation with UFO researchers for starters.

Oh, and also...I do think what's going on in whole UFO news community is important...not just individual stories...we've got to look at the big picture, too.

I mean this past week we've seen some of the most incredible UFO sightings ever, and everyone's talking about this "hoax" instead. Mexico, Peru, Toronto, Utah, and more...

And Wikileaks teasing UFO cables, then saying they're not anything but UFO cults, and then news about the cables confirming some UFO Contactee's predictions...so there are other "cover up" type things happening right now.

Originally posted by Unknown Soldier

Originally posted by hootlj
SkepticOverlord

I can't find a single objective unbiased analysis of the video in any news story or forum. But if I missed it, please show me!!!

What would you consider as a single objective unbiased analysis of the video in any news story or forum ?

One that would tell you what you want to hear?

Instead of being sarcastic, smug, and superior, why don't you just show him what he's asking for?

reply to post by Unknown Soldier


You guys just don't get me at all. If you could read my mind, you'd see that I 90% think the whole Jerusalem UFO debacle is a big hoax. And I'm not hoping and praying for it to be real. In many ways, that would be cool, but in many ways, it'd make me feel depressed...to have witnessed this whole cover up and have been "right" about it.

I just wish I was a journalist and not a sell-out right now, and so when I see journalists not doing their jobs...it's frustrating. Especially when it's SO easy to do. And not a single reporter was asking a professional to analyze the videos before they jumped to "hoax" conclusion. Instead they relied upon some UFO skeptic and some anonymous YouTubers. That's just not journalism.

If they had done things the right way, gotten a pro (or better yet several pros) to put the myth to bed...there wouldn't still be this raging debate.

And you'll notice...I really did try to understand the ATS-ers here telling me original videos were for sure fake, but I had trouble understanding analysis...so really couldn't trust my judgment...

So, I did all I knew to do...try to contact some unbiased professionals. Not been lucky so far, but I think eventually I will be...

Of course at this point in the game, it's hard to know WHAT to trust. Yes, there's part of me that worries that if this was a cover up, but the debate about its genuineness keeps going, the government would hire some pro to "hoax" it. haha.

It just would have been nice if this had already been done.

Oh, and by the way I'm a "her" not a "him" ; )

And YAY Mufon's investigating
ufo-sighting.info...

reply to post by FOXMULDER147




I find myself doing the work here, it is here in this thread. You can help too.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Originally posted by hootlj
reply to post by Unknown Soldier

 

You guys just don't get me at all. If you could read my mind, you'd see that I 90% think the whole Jerusalem UFO debacle is a big hoax. And I'm not hoping and praying for it to be real. In many ways, that would be cool, but in many ways, it'd make me feel depressed...to have witnessed this whole cover up and have been "right" about it.

Dont get down over it. The subject can be very discouraging with things like this. There is a mountain of evidence supporting ufology. The cover up is not so mighty as you might think there is plenty of cases , evidence, testimony from prominent people supporting the UFO subject. The subject does not rest on the scourge that leeches off of the life blood of people interested in UFO's, people like you and me. Witnesses like me.

[I just wish I was a journalist and not a sell-out right now, and so when I see journalists not doing their jobs...it's frustrating. Especially when it's SO easy to do. And not a single reporter was asking a professional to analyze the videos before they jumped to "hoax" conclusion. Instead they relied upon some UFO skeptic and some anonymous YouTubers. That's just not journalism.

If you know anything about the history of how this works the media is the last place to look for THE STORY. As far as critical thinking goes the media is an illusion of what really is going on. YT is a cesspool any more. You really have to pick and choose what channels you subscribe to that take this serious,

If they had done things the right way, gotten a pro (or better yet several pros) to put the myth to bed...there wouldn't still be this raging debate.

That was the first flag raised, among many others that indicated guilt and deception.

And Wikileaks teasing UFO cables, then saying they're not anything but UFO cults, and then news about the cables confirming some UFO Contactee's predictions...so there are other "cover up" type things happening right now.

The irony is the wikileaks UFO cable story was a rumor made up by the same hoax publicist that is pushing this hoax.


www.youtube.com...
www.youtube.com...

Originally posted by hootlj
And YAY Mufon's investigating
ufo-sighting.info...

MUFON will investigate anything.

Just to say from one veteran editor to another, kudos Skeptic Overlord. Your video illustrated waaay beyond a proof of concept demo. Glad to see us old guys....errrr...seasoned editors still got the chops! My motto.... cut when you can, if you can't solve it dissolve it and if you wanna see stuff flying around, go to the airport.

Very nice especially considering stock FCP / Motion toolset. A very big from someone who never gives false praise.

well done SkepticOverlord - you have demonstrated the issue of cgi related ufo video creation very well.
I'm still not convinced that the hoax came with an agenda in mind but at least ATS provided an outlet for discussion on the topic so from me.

Jerusalem has a weather station that takes live pictures 24/7. Surely they could put it to rest...?

www.02ws.com...

I'm trying to access the "How the Day was - by date" option, to go back to the date in question, but the video doesn't load.

Time to put this one to bed - The final nail in the coffin!
The pictures they used to Fake these video's show the view from Mount Scopus not Armon Hantziv
These places are nearly opposite each other, look at the position of the two domes in the first pic, sorry but the second pic was the best i could find.

Mount Scopus
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/b05e5209961f.jpg[/atsimg]

Armon Hantziv
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/0fd6f0149a65.jpg[/atsimg]

reply to post by SkepticOverlord


I wanted to reply on principle here. Putting aside the alleged videos and the OP's manufactured one, it is definitely not sufficient to say that if I can make a video then the original must also be faked. Our CGI programs were specifically designed to replicate reality in a convincing manner. We've got to the point where almost anything can be created in a computer. There's nothing wrong with being skeptical but Stephen Spielberg's Saving Private Ryan is not evidence that the Invasion of Normandy never happened. Just because something can be faked doesn't really offer any substantive proof that something was faked.

Just my two cents