Dr Edgar Mitchell "There are Several Species Visiting our Planet" Feb 12 2011

Originally posted by pshea38
Now karen, how can a camera (especially one from the 1960's) take a picture and keep both near object and distant object images in perfect focus?

Ever hear of Ansel Adams? I suggest you check out his work.

You do it by using a large format camera...I believe the astronauts used special Hasselblads...and a long focal length. In these days of jean-pocket digitals, people forget that there are also f-stops on cameras.

Originally posted by jonnywhite

Thanks for your thoughtful, well reasoned and open minded comments. I think your post should serve as a model for the tenor, style, and substance of the desired give-and-take on ATV. Please stay in touch either here or via email because we fundamentally share the same curiosity about what is clearly a mystery [or mysteries]...

Originally posted by JimOberg
Cooper shows no signs of being a liar, although his story has 'evolved' over the years [which may be why Mitchell refuses to disclose the version of it that Cooper probably told him in 1968-9].

Tell me how it evolved here I am not a ufologist and have other things I do in life.

Cooper's original comments clearly said he saw nothing himself:

In 1978, in his second interview with Spiegel (this time for OMNI), he evaded any discussion of the Edwards case by saying, "I'd just as soon not get into the Edwards incident. I didn't get to see anything personally, it was all second hand evidence really."

In that same time period he gave a taped interview to an Italian ufologist named Ferrando in which he described a UFO with legs landing -- in FLORIDA -- that he observed. In later years, that Florida story vanished and he reported the landing occurring in California.

His story of 'fleets of UFOs' over Germany in 1951 was in the mid-1970s merely a sighting of strange lights which he described to Stu Nixon of NICAP as 'probably weather balloons'. As the story got more dramatic, it became a chase of disk-shaped objects [a chase which nobody else in his squadron seems to have remembered, and I checked with a dozen of them and have written comments from them]. On late-night talk radio he added a twist that officials claimed the objects were 'seed pods' -- a factlet that he obtained not from memory but from reading my own draft report I sent him about 1985.

I linked to an interview of Gordon Cooper where he explicitly states that the incident he encountered where he packaged the film himself and sent it off to washington was never recorded by Blue Book. What you say here directly conflicts with his statement in the interview. But, as you say, his statements have evolved. So please elaborate on how they have evolved.

You see the following paragraph:
...In fact, they were told it was a weather balloon by base personnel, according to McDonald, on the very exact same day that the incident happened. They didn't buy that explanation and I'm not sure we should, either. Nor do I think anyone should automatically assume that Cooper told us everything he knew or that the photographers or Hubert Davis present us the whole story. The quote above mentions that "The photos were shortly taken by Base military authorities and were never seen again by the men." Do we know for sure that Cooper wasn't one of the 'base military authorities'? While it's true plenty of what you have referenced is at odds with Coopers version of the story, that doesn't mean nothing can be gained from it.

No disagreement here. Before accepting/rejecting the wx balloon story, one would have to see the original Blue Book report. I recommend you take that step. The issue of the solution to the sighting isn't really crucial to the bigger question -- was Cooper merely repeating base gossip and inserting himself into the 'action' as a dramatic technique?

Do we know for sure that Cooper wasn't one of the 'base military authorities'?

Be careful where such speculation leads -- it allows anything to be possible if not explicitly ruled out. McDonald interviewed three people, and he names them. I find it hard to believe that they would have NOT named Cooper, considering the fame he had in the 1960s. And Gettys explicitly states, as does Davis, that they never encountered Cooper in the entire process of the sighting reporting.

Witnesses often report incorrectly. And we shouldn't assume that the two photographers and Hubert Davis present the case without error. If Cooper can remember the incident wrongly so can they. Cooper mentions he was working on the secret U2 program that wasn't even classified. It wasn't classified so it could avoid undue attention. I'm sure he was very busy and his memory prone to error, but I doubt he's alone. If the others offer something, so does Cooper. Don't cherry-pick.

Again, good advice -- but apply it fairly, it works in both directions. Cooper's memory could well have been faulty. He could really, in the end, have thought he was involved, after telling the story again and again. But his EARLIEST comment, told to Spiegel of OMNI in 1978 (and Spiegel tells me he still has the tape), was that he was NOT directly involved and saw NOTHING first-hand.

Here is the interview where he mentions Blue Book did not cover it: -snip -

How could he know? Did he go looking for it? For years this was indeed the subject of intense discussion in ufo circles, that there were TWO similar cases, one involving Cooper and a landing, and one with Bittick, Getys, Davis, and a Blue Book report. But Cooper's autobiography nailed the issue -- they were the same event, just remembered differently.

. I haven't made my mind up, yet. All I know is is that I don't trust anyone about this issue. Too much going on. Too many people. Too many stories and points of view.

Actually, not ENOUGH stories -- as this discussion shows, the extent of genuine investigation of the Cooper stories is vigorousoly suppressed and covered up by UFO proponents. Fox (I know what I saw) does the Cooper story and tells his own father, "The case has NEVER been explained" -- denying the existence of an investigation which uncovered significant context and other witnesses.

It's also why I raised the issue of Mitchell's ESP paper. The public version of that event has Mitchell sending 'signals' to ground listeners who log their receptions, and later when compared the signals that were sent showed remarkable similarity to those that had been received.

The raw data in the report shows an entirely different picture -- random 'receptions' uncoordinated with any 'sendings' that have to be creatively assigned to different sendings and seem random until an imaginative scoring technique suddenly provides 'statistical significance'. It was an experiment that had NO a priori scoring algorithm, which is appalling -- it allowed the experimenter to interpret, re-interpret, and re-re-interpret the data until it provided satisfying successes.

As such, it displayed a 'will to believe' so powerful that it overcame fundamental principles of scientific experimentation. It provided evidence about the level of judgment that he also could be presumed to apply to similar-theme stories.

Well if the aliens are in contact with us, they are doing a really half-assed job at helping the human race.

My space alien friends, if you want to help humanity please:

1) Perform an "Independence Day" on Wall St. I'm sure with your technology you can surgically remove the offending people and institutions... kind of like removing a bad tattoo with a laser. Don't forget the Federal Reserve.

2) Provide humanity with unlimited clean energy, and perform an "Independence Day" on Saudi Arabia for good measure.

3 - 8) Call me for more ideas.

9) Rinse and repeat

reply to post by gortex


Before I begin, I want to make clear that I too believe in extra terrestrial life. Since its not only a possibility but a mathematical certainty!

Have you noticed that every person testifying to the veracity of alien encounters or visitations never have hard data to prove it! Why is that? Sure, many of them hold positions in high ranking places within our society. This in turn would suggest that any allegations coming from them should be be looked upon with a high degree of certainty and credibility. But any claims a person makes demands proof. The old saying "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence!" is profoundly necessary. Ex-military or ex-CIA operatives never have photos or video with them... The reason for this.... Simply because there is none available, at least not to them!

The videos we watch in Youtube and photos we see in the web are placed by ordinary people or UFO fanatics. Why do I mention this... Because they have nothing to loose, no integrity to worry about. Most if not all of the evidence placed by them, is at one point or another proven to be false or highly skeptical.

What we need is for either of 2 events to happen. 1. For a UFO to land in a public location where it can be seen and documented by thousands of people followed by an alien specie encounter. Other wise, for all we know the space ship is nothing more then a top secret military craft i.e Not Alien. 2. Nations governments need to publicly admit and provide evidence acknowledging the existence of other civilizations. But until that happens, it will remain a push pull contest between UFO advocates and debunkers.

Originally posted by Beowolfs
reply to post by gortex

 

Before I begin, I want to make clear that I too believe in extra terrestrial life. Since its not only a possibility but a mathematical certainty!

Not to appear impudent, but is it not also a mathematical certainty that bumblebees cannot fly?

reply to post by JohnnyCanuck


Based on the laws of Aerodynamics, bees should not be able to fly. However, mathematically speaking, one could find a percentage however small of species that defy our common understanding.

I did not read all 14 pages of this thread, so I don't know if someone said this already: Edgar Mitchell has been long surrounded and --influenced-- by these NewAgey Exopolitics and Disclosure Ufologists and that is where he ( --parrots-- ) his Ufo stuff from.

Originally posted by simone50m
I did not read all 14 pages of this thread, so I don't know if someone said this already: Edgar Mitchell has been long surrounded and --influenced-- by these NewAgey Exopolitics and Disclosure Ufologists and that is where he ( --parrots-- ) his Ufo stuff from.

Discrediting an American hero who walked on the moon and is a p.h.d. Mighty big balls you are sporting, sir. I wonder, is it arrogance, ignorance or something else that is motivating you...

Originally posted by Beowolfs
reply to post by JohnnyCanuck

 

Based on the laws of Aerodynamics, bees should not be able to fly! However, mathematically speaking, one could find a percentage however small of species that defy our common understanding.

Please stop polluting good discussion threads with your arrogant ignorance.

Read www.paghat.com...

You should have done it first.

Now apologize.

One positive angle: you gave us all a good chuckle at your expense.

Originally posted by JohnnyCanuck
Not to appear impudent, but is it not also a mathematical certainty that bumblebees cannot fly?

"Impudent" is NOT how you appear in posting that nonsense.

Originally posted by JudgedCover

Originally posted by simone50m
I did not read all 14 pages of this thread, so I don't know if someone said this already: Edgar Mitchell has been long surrounded and --influenced-- by these NewAgey Exopolitics and Disclosure Ufologists and that is where he ( --parrots-- ) his Ufo stuff from.

Discrediting an American hero who walked on the moon and is a p.h.d. Mighty big balls you are sporting, sir. I wonder, is it arrogance, ignorance or something else that is motivating you...

edit on 15-2-2011 by JudgedCover because: (no reason given)

Jim Irwin walked on the moon and says he found Noah's Ark on Mt. Ararat. Do you believe him?

Gordon Cooper was supposed to walk on the moon but got grounded for poor performance -- he says he saved the space shuttle program from a fatal design flaw by relaying a telepathic warning from space aliens. Do you believe him?

Oh, and Cooper (post getting booted out of NASA) wanted all your money for a series of aviation industry scams, and lots of people who think like you (that is, badly) passed over millions of dollars -- all of it soon lost in the swindles. How much of your money would you have invested in a scheme promoted by Cooper?

T
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K

Don't

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Dr Edgar Mitchell might be more useful if he tell why the experiments
with the astronauts in magnetic isolated cameras have been classified.

reply to post by realitydiscovered


???

Intriguing, never heard before, short on details....and not really right for this thread...

Perhaps in its own? Might be interesting.....

ETA: The Astronauts were in the cameras?? Big cameras........

Originally posted by JimOberg

Originally posted by JudgedCover

Originally posted by simone50m
I did not read all 14 pages of this thread, so I don't know if someone said this already: Edgar Mitchell has been long surrounded and --influenced-- by these NewAgey Exopolitics and Disclosure Ufologists and that is where he ( --parrots-- ) his Ufo stuff from.

Discrediting an American hero who walked on the moon and is a p.h.d. Mighty big balls you are sporting, sir. I wonder, is it arrogance, ignorance or something else that is motivating you...

edit on 15-2-2011 by JudgedCover because: (no reason given)

Jim Irwin walked on the moon and says he found Noah's Ark on Mt. Ararat. Do you believe him?

Gordon Cooper was supposed to walk on the moon but got grounded for poor performance -- he says he saved the space shuttle program from a fatal design flaw by relaying a telepathic warning from space aliens. Do you believe him?

Oh, and Cooper (post getting booted out of NASA) wanted all your money for a series of aviation industry scams, and lots of people who think like you (that is, badly) passed over millions of dollars -- all of it soon lost in the swindles. How much of your money would you have invested in a scheme promoted by Cooper?

T
H
I
N
K

Don't

W
O
R
S
H
I
P

I'm not claiming to believe what he says.

I'm not a worshipper...hell I haven't even clicked "Like" on his FB page, assuming he has one.

I don't think any man regardless of his pedigree, is incapable of going bat-**** insane.

What I do think, is that I am in no position to so easily discredit a man who has accomplished so much, so easily.

I guess I just don't think so highly of myself to do so...a flaw you definitely don't appeart to share.

I'll take your advice about not worshipping men and I'll offer some of my own...don't worship the one you gaze at in the mirror every morning.

Originally posted by JudgedCover
Discrediting an American hero who walked on the moon and is a p.h.d. Mighty big balls you are sporting, sir. I wonder, is it arrogance, ignorance or something else that is motivating you...

edit on 15-2-2011 by JudgedCover because: (no reason given)

Astronauts are NOT immune to bad judgement, immoral choices, mental illness, etc. As this news article about astronaut Lisa Nowak attests. She drove 900 miles in a diaper to confront a lady Air Force Captain, her romantic rival, with pepper spray, in an Orlando Florida parking lot.
www.cnn.com...

I do not have big balls cuz I'm a girl. I sport mighty big boobs instead.

Originally posted by JimOberg
Jim Irwin walked on the moon and says he found Noah's Ark on Mt. Ararat.

No, he didn't.

Originally posted by JimOberg
Gordon Cooper was supposed to walk on the moon but got grounded for poor performance -- he says he saved the space shuttle program from a fatal design flaw by relaying a telepathic warning from space aliens.

No, he didn't.

ufoupdateslist.com...

Originally posted by FOXMULDER147
I find it unbelievable that a man of this stature, a true hero who has walked on the moon, can say these things, in full command of his faculties, and the world doesn't listen.

If an Apollo astronaut can say these things and have negligible effect, what hope is there for the rest of us...

The Canadian ex-defense chief Paul Hellyer has been taking a more vocal stance too.

Originally posted by FOXMULDER147

Originally posted by JimOberg
Gordon Cooper was supposed to walk on the moon but got grounded for poor performance -- he says he saved the space shuttle program from a fatal design flaw by relaying a telepathic warning from space aliens.

No, he didn't.
ufoupdateslist.com...

Thanks for the link, it's delightful how much apologetical wriggling is required to somehow 'show' that Cooper didn't claim what he actually claimed.

Cooper Claims He Saved Shuttle Via Alien’s Message

This passage from the book describes how Cooper saved the shuttle program from disaster due to a design flaw, by relaying a telepathic warning from space aliens. I asked around the shuttle engineering directorate, and nobody remembered any such flaw or any such design modifications. Cooper’s book does not provide the alleged drawing. And if the aliens were sending design flaw warnings, why didn’t they mention the O-rings?

LEAP OF FAITH: An Astronaut’s Journey into the Unknown,
by Gordon Cooper, with Bruce Henderson
Harper Collins, New York, July 2000
Copyright @2000 L. Gordon Cooper and Bruce Henderson

Chapter 15 -- The Space Shuttle Transmission (pp. 227- 232)

“There could be trouble with the space shuttle”.
It was December 1978.
“What kind of trouble?” I asked her [Valerie Ransone] over the phone. Valerie was at her office in Washington; I was at mine in California.
“Technical flaws,” she said. “Something to do with the heating or cooling system. It’s pretty sketchy.”
The warning had come during one of her ‘transmissions’. She had no idea when they would arrive -- the telepathic messages she believed were from an extraterrestrial source of intelligence. . . . She made a point always to document the details as soon as possible, usually typing up the complete messages.
... Four months after mentioning the vague possibility of a problem with the space shuttle, Valerie was in Los Angeles and came to my office. She was worried about new and more detailed information she had received. She showed me a single typewritten page of notes she’d made after receiving the transmission.
This time the warning was quite specific.
In terms worthy of any graduate engineering class, “serious technical faults” were outlined in detail, specifying what could happen during reentry to the system that provided cooling to the cabin and sensitive electronics. The source of the problem seemed to be the electromagnetic effects during space flight on the iron rods used in the cooling system.
At the top of the page was a detailed drawing of a tube of some type, showing its iron-rod center and a chamber that held a liquid substance.
“Who drew this?” I asked.
“I did,” Valerie said. “What is it?”
“I don’t know.”
“What does this all mean, Gordon?”
I didn’t have the faintest idea; neither, apparently, did she.
The key was the ventilation system, according to the message. If it wasn’t at the proper temperature during reentry, the result could be a toxic release that would fill the lungs of the crew and quickly render them unconscious. No doubt was left that an urgent design change in the space shuttle was called for before another mission.
The transmission warned of the danger that premature launches of experimental components would set up in-flight difficulties that could not be handled by the crew, the result being a catastrophic event that would lose public support for the program. The source of the information professed to being concerned that the future of manned space travel not be jeopardized by such events.
I’d been around Valerie long enough to find her knowledgeable and trustworthy, and I wasn’t about to discount her transmissions. In addition, her telepathic powers had been proved time and time again. . . . I felt certain she was getting good information from -somewhere-; from where and whom I couldn’t say for sure.
And now this: a possible catastrophic design flaw in the space shuttle.
For me, this was the moment of truth.
Dare I ignore the transmission, origin unknown? On the other hand, did I march into NASA with the information in hand? Would they consider me some sort of fool -- retired from NASA for nearly a decade, coming in with detailed technical information about a spacecraft I had never flown?
Looking at the intricate drawing of the coil, I knew I had no choice.
. . . .
Placing the space shuttle transmission into my well-worn briefcase, I flew to Houston to see Bennett “Ben” James, an experienced engineer and supervisor in NASA’s Flight Operations whom I knew from Mercury and trusted like a wingman. . . .
We sat alone in his office, and I told him the “whole six yards,” as we used to say in Oklahoma, where fertilizer trucks carried six cubic yards of material.
. . . . I now told him it was possible that my business partner was in contact with “higher powers somewhere who may have better information than we do.”
Ben, a trooper in every sense of the word, didn’t flinch.
“The bottom line for me is who cares where this comes from?” I said. “If it’s valid -- if it’s accurate of the scenario is possible in any way -- well, maybe someone should do some double-checking just to make sure things are all right.”
“Say no more, Gordo. I agree.”
I volunteered to help Ben brief several NASA managers. “But I’m not sure we should tell them the source,” I smiled.
“I agree.”
NASA engineers immediately went to work examining the space shuttle’s cooling system, looking at the detailed scenario I laid out for them. They quickly identified and, within days, fixed the potential problem with the cooling system -- just as outlined in the transmission I carried in my briefcase.
I was relieved that they found and fixed the problem on the space shuttle. Was I surprised that the cooling system flaw existed? Not really. With Valerie Ransone, I had moved beyond surprise. But the experience gave me another shot of confidence that the source we were getting technological assistance from was for real.
. . . .If this vital and very detailed information hadn’t come from a source of higher intelligence that for some reason was monitoring the U.S. space program, then where did it come from?

To repeat -- I checked all around the shuttle engineering office, from top to bottom, and nobody had any clue what kind of 'fault' this was supposed to have been -- since no such 'fixes' had ever been implemented.

You can check too. Finding such a repair would enormously enhance Cooper's credibility.

As far as I can tell, nobody else has EVER bothered to look. They must secretly agree with my assessment of Cooper's credibility.

reply to post by simone50m


Girls on the interwebz? Talk about stuff that's hard to believe....

Sorry, I assumed women were smart enough to avoid this wretched hive of scum and villainy. .

reply to post by chocise


Paul Hellyer came up with his NewAgey Exopolitical/Disclosure notions --after-- reading Phil Corso's book The Day After Roswell. Paola Harris closely shadows Hellyer.

reply to post by weedwhacker


They are still in cameras there in the space, what are you wondering about.
But there was something proved at Wiliam Tiller :

www.tillerfoundation.com... and I was in the tracks of it.

Unfortunately the information about the experiments is classified and it will
be very hard for me to explain in datails my considerations. It concerns the
so-called human consciousness.