Penn and Teller" tricked" into admitting 9/11 might be an "inside Job".

reply to post by GoodOlDave


I know that you have also seen evidence which does NOT come from crackpots, so it is absurd for you to generalize. I've seen your posts in other 9/11 threads and the evidence presented here on ATS has (more often than not) been substantial.

All I can hope to do here is show other people that there are alternative ways to view 9/11. But by automatically shunning EVERY conspiracy, you do not give your mind the chance to... open.

9/11: Pilots Couldn't Actually Perform the Simulation

Possible Thermite Usage

1200 Architects and Engineers Call for Reevaluation

There are plenty of other legitimate threads containing DIAMONDS of information. More and more people are questioning. Plus, you have to realize that history continuously repeats itself. Is it irrational to believe that history repeats itself here? All conflict have in time been exposed in their ulterior motives.

Originally posted by JudgedCover
reply to post by TrickoftheShade

 

No. You are evil because you are a hypocrite and make excuses for bad behavior instead of taking responsibility for it.

EDIT:
...and I'm evil because I'm being judgemental and get a little bit of enjoyment out of taking the piss out of someone...

edit on 15-2-2011 by JudgedCover because: (no reason given)

...and I see conscience trumped by fear on a daily basis...

edit on 15-2-2011 by JudgedCover because: (no reason given)

I don't think you're evil. Just misunderstood.

One does indeed see conscience trumped by fear regularly. But one also sees fear trumped by conscience. A lot of 9/11 truthers would have you beleive that it only happens the former way around, except with regard to them. Which kind of casts them in a rather saintly light.

Originally posted by SphinxMontreal

Oh, I get it now. You were being ironic by telling me that I was being ironic. How stupid of me - I feel like a total moron. My sincerest apologies.

I assume this is where I'm not allowed to point out your sarcasm?

For the record, the implications of my thinking make me uncomfortable all of the time. Not enough to lose any sleep over it though.

You've misunderstood. I'm not talking about what you no doubt think are the world shattering political and social implications of your actually rather banal views. What I was alluding to was the obviously illogical position you find yourself in, and how it makes you look rather arrogant.

To repeat. You would never take the 9/11 dollar, you're too pure. But everybody else in a position to do so did. How disgusting they are. And how virtuous you must be.

As for the people who have been implicated or with knowledge of the 9/11 conspiracy, I honestly do not care about their values.

The "whores"?

You kind of sound like you do care a teensy bit about their values.

Let's extend the situation you began above. You say you wouldn't actively write against what you believe in. Now let's imagine your boss came to you again, this time with a guy you hadn't seen before. They took you aside and told you to stop discussing your views on 9/11, with anybody. To stop writing or talking about it and to toe the official line. And never to mention this meeting. Or else.

What would you do?

Originally posted by JudgedCover
reply to post by TrickoftheShade

 

They are performers and the video shows clearly that once they perceived that the majority of that particular audience were not "truthers" they pandered to them, like any performer does to it's audience.

in other words they're douchebags, right?

Originally posted by prepared4truth
All I can hope to do here is show other people that there are alternative ways to view 9/11. But by automatically shunning EVERY conspiracy, you do not give your mind the chance to... open.

9/11: Pilots Couldn't Actually Perform the Simulation

Possible Thermite Usage

1200 Architects and Engineers Call for Reevaluation

To which I will respond that you're not proving my statement wrong that you're relying on bad information for your arguments. I'm already well aquainted with all these claims.

a) This is that not too well concealed, "no planes" hoax. The planes struck two skyscrapers in the middle of one of the most densest populated cities in the world, and by the time of the second strike everyone in Manhattan was watching the WTC to see what was going on, plus, wreckage, the black box, and passenger remains from the Pentagon site was traced to flight 77. If you want to speculate the planes were remote controlled, that's one thing, but the fact is there is just too much evidence proving these really were the passenger jets that struck the buildings to be brushed off by armchair speculation. The problem I'm seeing is that these characters spinning the "no planes" hoax are deliberately withholding the evidence from you because they want to sucker you on their "no planes" spiel.

b) The report made no mention that Thermite was used to destroy the WTC whatsoever. The report said that thermitic material was found in the dust, which I can accept becuase thermite is aluminum and iron oxide, both of which were found naturally within the towers. There is an extensive catalog of photographs of the condition of the steel found at ground zero, not to mention, hundreds of people who worked there picking the steel up... and not one photograph nor one person at ground zero reported or shown any signs of thermite sabotage whatsoever. Besides, the moment the conspiracy mongors attempted to pass off that photo of the columns disassambed by acetylene torch as thermite damage, it was the moment I knew they were conducting a snow job. Come on now, seriouslly, do you really think the hundreds of people at ground zero are all blithering idiots walking around all this "evidence" without noticing anything suspicious?

c) So who's saying we SHOULDN'T have more investigations. It was one of the most traumatic and historical defining moments in world history so I agree it should be researched as much as possible. The peopel on the 9/11 commission acknowledged their report was only a first draft and that subsequent information may show some of their findings to be incorrect. My beef is with these conspiracy mongors manipulating the facts and passing off outright lies in an attempt to rewrite history to their liking to "prove" conspiracy regardless of whether there is one or not. If anything, we need more investigations to fully document what happened so we can get these conspiracy con artists to STFU and stop trying to fill the vaccuum with their own make believe conspiracy drivel.

Tell me something, if you genuinely feel this is "blatantly a conspiracy" then why is it that not a single one of you conspiracy theorists can sit down with each other and agree to what this "blatantly a conspiracy" even is? Person A thinks it's controlled demolitions, Person B thinks it's lasers from outer space, person C thinks the gov't did it, person D thinks the Jews did it, etc etc etc. To me, it sounds like everyone is simply seeing what they themselves want to see in the events, like some Rorschach test. With New World Order lunatics like Alex Jones running around thinking tiny Filipino girls are actually secret gov't agents sent to spy on him, it's NOT proving me incorrect.

Penn & Teller's, "Bullsh*t" series may not have a politically correct name, but it still accurately sums up what's going on.

Originally posted by GoodOlDave

Tell me something, if you genuinely feel this is "blatantly a conspiracy" then why is it that not a single one of you conspiracy theorists can sit down with each other and agree to what this "blatantly a conspiracy" even is? Person A thinks it's controlled demolitions, Person B thinks it's lasers from outer space, person C thinks the gov't did it, person D thinks the Jews did it, etc etc etc. To me, it sounds like everyone is simply seeing what they themselves want to see in the events, like some Rorschach test. With New World Order lunatics like Alex Jones running around thinking tiny Filipino girls are actually secret gov't agents sent to spy on him, it's NOT proving me incorrect.

edit on 16-2-2011 by GoodOlDave because: (no reason given)

Because every time we try, skeptics such as Penn and Teller come into the discussion with a lack of information and claim to know everything. All I'm saying is that there are other views,and a reevaluation is in order. Obviously, a disassembled bunch of online conspiracy theorists cannot do it by themselves for multiple reasons, but mainly because of the disinformationists (whether intentional or unintentional) roaming the internet on BOTH sides, conspiracy and skeptic.

Yes, our views on exactly what happened differ, sure. Many conspiracy theorists admit that we will never know EXACTLY what happen. But we all agree that it did NOT happen the way the OS claims. This is what is important. Refutable sources, tampered evidence, biased skeptics, misinformation, none of it matters if people aren't even ready to unify and question the OS. And like I said before, please stop using examples of "that conspiracy theorist". The generalizations are killing me.

reply to post by prepared4truth


A load of bull excrement, that claim (and the OP of that thread):

9/11: Pilots Couldn't Actually Perform the Simulation

I guess you didn't read that thread? Just the title??

The claims made that were the basis for the thread's OP came from a provocateur who was LYING through his teeth. Something that is quite common in the so-called "truther" industry.....

How odd that my question hasn't been answered.

Still, I'm sure it's only a matter of time...

Originally posted by prepared4truth
Because every time we try, skeptics such as Penn and Teller come into the discussion with a lack of information and claim to know everything. All I'm saying is that there are other views,and a reevaluation is in order. Obviously, a disassembled bunch of online conspiracy theorists cannot do it by themselves for multiple reasons, but mainly because of the disinformationists (whether intentional or unintentional) roaming the internet on BOTH sides, conspiracy and skeptic.

That doesn't answer the question. Person A looks at the WTC collapsing and thinks, "controlled demolitions". Person B looks at the collapse and thinks, "Lasers from outer space". Person C looks at the collapse and thinks, "nukes in the basement". Person D looks at the collapse and thinks, "hologram planes". My question is that if this is "blatantly a conspiracy" then why are there so many radically different explanations for what the "blatantly a conspiracy" is when you're all looking at the exact same building collapsing.

I say it's becuase you're all attempting to form a pattern on your own from your own individual outlook on life, so if this person was paranoid about the Jewish World order, they're naturally going to blame the Jewish World order for the attack, and if that person thinks the gov't is constantly plotting to murder us all, then they're naturally going to blame the gov't. Penn and Teller says it's because you're all fantasizing that you're chickens, which I acknowledge is an unfair judgement, but nonetheless you're still introducing way, WAY too much of your own personal opinions into the mix instead of basing your judgements upon the facts.

Yes, our views on exactly what happened differ, sure. Many conspiracy theorists admit that we will never know EXACTLY what happen. But we all agree that it did NOT happen the way the OS claims.

...and *I* will repeat my original point..as well as Penn and Teller's point... that the way the conspiracy theorists are describing the OS is NOT what the OS actually says. For one thing, there is no such thing as "an official story"; that's a concept you manufactured on your own. The commission report got every microbe of their information from eyewitness accounts from German intelligence testifying Mohammed Atta was in contact with Al Qaida agents while he was in Hamburg to Mohammed Atta's former girlfriemd testifying he was such a sociopath that he dismembered her kittens after an argument. Are you saying these witnesses are all secret gov't agents?

I don't know how many times I see some new guy bumble in here and post "Illiterate goat herders living in caves" when all the ring leaders from Bin Laden to Atta to KSM all have university degrees and highly educated, and all the hijackers came from middle to upper class families. Someone is deliberately lying to you conspiracy theorists to artificially incubate these idiotic conspiracy theories so there should be little wonder why the conspiracy theorists are suffering from a credibility problem.

Originally posted by TrickoftheShade

Originally posted by psyop911
reply to post by TrickoftheShade

 

well, you can 'lose your job' and ''lose your job'', if you know what i mean (wink wink)?

And absolutely no one would be brave enough to say, "These guys came to my house last night and threatened to kill me if I mentioned 9/11 again, and what I think went down"? Even people with huge media exposure?

You would immediately shut up, I take it?

why don't you try it and let us know how it went, eh?

reply to post by psyop911


Try what?

The truth about 9/11 is we will never know what really happened.Evidence (photos, videos and everything else) has been lost, destroyed,altered and fabricated. I doubt that anything is left that is true to that day. The official story is bull but just what were they trying to cover up that day is any one's guess. At this point even the people that were involved on that day do not even know what did and did not happen for sure. The really sad part is the people that are trying to find out the truth are in fact helping to hide the truth by covering it with all the theories of what did and did not happen. The best way to cover a truth is in a pile of lies and this one is cover by Mt. Everest. Yes, I would like to know what really went down that day but I know that I never will.

I am sad to say that who ever did what ever has gotten away with it as planed.

9/11 will go down in history as a great unsolved mystery.

reply to post by fixer1967

9/11 will go down in history as a great unsolved mystery.

Actually, its been almost 10 years now and 9/11 has already "gone down" in history. And not as an unsolved mystery either.

History may note that, like so many other major historical events, persons have attempted to contrive fantastical conspiracies as "alternate" explanations to the days events. All to little or no avail as the events of that day were witnessed and experienced by so many directly and indirectly.

reply to post by hooper


So was JFK but we still do not know for sure what happen on that day either. People are still asking questions on that. What I am saying is that in a hundred years the same questions that are being asked about 9/11 will still be asked over and over again. We are as close to knowing the events on 9/11 today as we will ever be. As for me I have given up on ever knowing the whole story of 9/11. Most of what happen on that sad day is lost forever or buried under a mount of lies we will never be able to dig though. Good luck to the ones still digging but as for me I am putting up my shovel and calling it a day.

reply to post by fixer1967

So was JFK but we still do not know for sure what happen on that day either. People are still asking questions on that.

No, they really aren't. Just like 9/11. Just because there is a subcult of conspiracist with access to a medium like the internet does not mean that popular history is still undecided.

What I am saying is that in a hundred years the same questions that are being asked about 9/11 will still be asked over and over again.

The only reason that the same questions are being asked "over and over again" is because a microscopic group of individuals has a vested interested in ignoring the answers.

We are as close to knowing the events on 9/11 today as we will ever be. As for me I have given up on ever knowing the whole story of 9/11.

Simply listen to the answers. Also note that not every sentence that ends in a question mark is really a question.

Most of what happen on that sad day is lost forever or buried under a mount of lies we will never be able to dig though.

Yes, there are a million details of the event that CANNOT be known, like many events in history. That does not allow one to dismiss what is known.

Good luck to the ones still digging but as for me I am putting up my shovel and calling it a day.

They are not as much "digging" as they are really just throwing around mud.