Rise of the Anti-Christ

Originally posted by Cosmic.Artifact
Hitler wasn't the anti-Christ... he was "an" anti-Christ.

I agree with you on that. He was one of many, there is one yet to come though that will be the last and final one. And he is termed by a few different names, the son of perdition, the beast, the false messiah, and also the one that will stand by his side is called the false prophet. And the dragon of old called Satan will give him the anti-Christ his power.

Revelation 13:1-3 (New American Standard Bible)

The Beast from the Sea
1And the dragon stood on the sand of the seashore. Then I saw a (A)beast coming up out of the sea, having (B)ten horns and (C)seven heads, and on his horns were (D)ten diadems, and on his heads were (E)blasphemous names.

2And the beast which I saw was (F)like a leopard, and his feet were like those of (G)a bear, and his mouth like the mouth of (H)a lion And the (I)dragon gave him his power and his (J)throne and great authority.

3I saw one of his heads as if it had been slain, and his (K)fatal wound was healed And the whole earth (L)was amazed and followed after the beast;

Originally posted by Cosmic.Artifact
reply to post by hawaii50th

 

yeah I have not read much of that part of the book of wisdom but when I did read it, it sounded to me like what I stated... an Ideology just as is on the rise and has been steady since Darwin... anyone who denounces the Law of God and creates new Laws which others believe (like Hitler did) is an anti-Christ (hence it is ok to kill). I think of it as real-time, a living book and not any particular point in the future when this is going to happen to all humankind at the same time, but to individuals in their own time.

from what I have read of the Book I have read alone like a mystery novel... other opinions cloud its message until one get's it.

edit on 2/13/2011 by Cosmic.Artifact because: off topic rambling about Moses

There are other places in the bible that have prophecy, Isaiah, Ezekiel, Daniel, Zacharia, Matthew, and others as well as Revelation.
These things that have taken place and the things yet to come, happens over centuries, decades, years, and eventually months and even days. Due to lack of understanding in God's timetable people have lost hope and faith in how life and time relate. With God, a thousand years is but a day, and a day is but a thousand years, in other words in the spiritual world time does not exist. That's a hard one to comprehend.

reply to post by IAMIAM


Originally posted by trekwebmaster
I beg to disagree, Jesus was asked and he answered the question of "How to Pray."

It is written in Luke 11:



Ok my friend, you disagree.

I am not here to change your mind.

With Love,

Your Brother

I'd like to understand your stance on this matter better. This poster states that Jesus did indeed instruct us on how to pray and then goes to back it up with scripture. How is it you can disagree? Do you disagree with the bible? Do you contest that the bible is the uncorrupted Word of God? I have agreed with your statements up until this point so I'm curious about your response.

Originally posted by hawaii50th

Originally posted by mrphilosophias
reply to post by Noncompatible

 

How is that you have come to possess two truths now, when before you implied that the only truth, is that there is no truth. Yet now you are implying that there are many more truths than just this one. So what is truth? Are their non-truths? Can I suggest that two contradictory notions are true in the same sense and at the same time? Is there an objective reality or a Most Perfect perspective of the Universe? I think that you have not taken the time to challenge yourself to ask more questions and think more critically about the premises which you so boldly proclaim as truth, or you may realize too late that what you believed was truth, was really quite the opposite.

Jesus is the Way, the Life, and the Truth, no man comes to the Father but through Him. Praise, glory, honor and thanksgiving belong to the Lamb of God, who was slain as the Perfect Atoning sacrifice for the sins of the world: He is risen!
In Love and Service,
Matthew

edit on 13-2-2011 by mrphilosophias because: (no reason given)

To mrphilosophias, you hit the nail right on the head.

Yes he has indeed. You have a belief in a "truth". I do not, that is my "truth". Others disagree with both "truths".

I can only conclude from this that the only truth is..there is no truth beside the meaning we attach to it.

Believe as you will, that does not make it truth.

And round and round we go.

reply to post by hawaii50th

that's interesting too, never got too deep into the end times stuff yet... I will look into it though I read the KJV when I do.

I have heard it said that the seas mean the multitudes of people ?

I do understand where Patmos was though and I believe it to be a "state of mind" rather than a specific place... and it was very lonely like a deserted island.

Revelations is a bit weird, I like the most the other parts, where Jesus like the Jedi totally slain the competition

Originally posted by Noncompatible

Originally posted by hawaii50th

Originally posted by mrphilosophias
reply to post by Noncompatible

 

How is that you have come to possess two truths now, when before you implied that the only truth, is that there is no truth. Yet now you are implying that there are many more truths than just this one. So what is truth? Are their non-truths? Can I suggest that two contradictory notions are true in the same sense and at the same time? Is there an objective reality or a Most Perfect perspective of the Universe? I think that you have not taken the time to challenge yourself to ask more questions and think more critically about the premises which you so boldly proclaim as truth, or you may realize too late that what you believed was truth, was really quite the opposite.

Jesus is the Way, the Life, and the Truth, no man comes to the Father but through Him. Praise, glory, honor and thanksgiving belong to the Lamb of God, who was slain as the Perfect Atoning sacrifice for the sins of the world: He is risen!
In Love and Service,
Matthew

edit on 13-2-2011 by mrphilosophias because: (no reason given)

To mrphilosophias, you hit the nail right on the head.

Yes he has indeed. You have a belief in a "truth". I do not, that is my "truth". Others disagree with both "truths".

I can only conclude from this that the only truth is..there is no truth beside the meaning we attach to it.

Believe as you will, that does not make it truth.

And round and round we go.

edit on 13-2-2011 by Noncompatible because: (no reason given)

edit on 13-2-2011 by Noncompatible because: (no reason given)

How can a nonbeliever believe in a Christian truth? Unless that nonbeliever comes to believe and have faith in the One that has the truth. It is impossible to find the truth for the nonbeliever.

Originally posted by Cosmic.Artifact
reply to post by hawaii50th

 

that's interesting too, never got too deep into the end times stuff yet... I will look into it though I read the KJV when I do.

I have heard it said that the seas mean the multitudes of people ?

I do understand where Patmos was though and I believe it to be a "state of mind" rather than a specific place... and it was very lonely like a deserted island.

Revelations is a bit weird... I like the most the Gospels

where Jesus like the Jedi totally slain the competition

Glad to hear that you do have an interest in the bible, when your about to read, ask for understanding from your heart.

Yes you are correct in your assumption that the seas are the multitudes and sometimes there are other meanings, it all depends on the context of what is being referred to. Another reference to people is, sands of the sea, in this case offspring.

As for Patmos, it is a small Greek island in the Aegean Sea, where John the apostle was exiled. The Revelation of Jesus Christ was given to him on this island, in a vision. It is taught that John was caught up in the spirit and taken into heaven where this vision was given to him to write down. It is written, that his spirit was taken up, or the Holy Spirit entered him and showed him what's to come and what will take place in heaven.
We need to consider someone of that time seeing things of the future that would boggle his mind. So he interprets these visions with the mindset of his time.
Revelation 1:3 (Amplified Bible)

Blessed (happy, to be envied) is the man who reads aloud [in the assemblies] the word of this prophecy; and blessed (happy, to be envied) are those who hear [it read] and who keep themselves true to the things which are written in it [heeding them and laying them to heart], for the time [for them to be fulfilled] is near.

Originally posted by hawaii50th
Yes you are correct in your assumption that the seas are the multitudes and sometimes there are other meanings, it all depends on the context of what is being referred to. Another reference to people is, sands of the sea, in this case offspring.

As for Patmos, it is a small Greek island in the Aegean Sea, where John the apostle was exiled. The Revelation of Jesus Christ was given to him on this island,

I find also very interesting the correlation of Patmos with Plato's Atlantis, for when was Patmos actually named ? the Greek word for it was something else and has it's own Mythology behind it.

en.wikipedia.org...

I found this part quite ironic...

In September 2008, the municipality of Patmos refused landing to a group of undocumented refugees from Afghanistan and Iraq. On the weekend of September 19, 2008, about 133 refugees were rescued. About half of the refugees were infants and minors. The refugees were taken to Patmos, the nearest municipality, for processing and care. The administration refused them permission to land. Eventually they were sent to the island of Leros where they were processed and given humanitarian aid. Local authorities justified their action by contrasting it to alleged practices elsewhere in the EU: "Malta sinks their boats and Italy lets them drown", local leaders claimed.

Originally posted by hawaii50th

How can a nonbeliever believe in a Christian truth? Unless that nonbeliever comes to believe and have faith in the One that has the truth. It is impossible to find the truth for the nonbeliever.

Hence proving there is nothing but "truth" as an interpretation. As it is impossible to verify your "truth" without belief.

And why is a christian truth superior to a non-christian one?
Because you say so ?
Because you believe it ?
The only truth is there is no truth...only facts, fiction and reality.

The notion of "mine is the only truth" is the real evil in the world, not an antichrist but an anti-tolerance and an unwillingness to unstrap the yoke of ignorance and really think.
Religion is a key contributor to this fact, most all religions not just yours. That and what appears to be an innate desire for everyone to believe they are right and anyone who disagrees does not know the "truth".

My "truth" differs from yours, fine. I am happy to share my "truth". So it seems are you, however I simply feel you're mistaken. You believe, it would seem, I'm damned unless I "find your truth".
Big difference and distinctly anti-tolerant.

Originally posted by Noncompatible

Originally posted by hawaii50th

How can a nonbeliever believe in a Christian truth? Unless that nonbeliever comes to believe and have faith in the One that has the truth. It is impossible to find the truth for the nonbeliever.

Hence proving there is nothing but "truth" as an interpretation. As it is impossible to verify your "truth" without belief.

And why is a christian truth superior to a non-christian one?
Because you say so ?
Because you believe it ?
The only truth is there is no truth...only facts, fiction and reality.

The notion of "mine is the only truth" is the real evil in the world, not an antichrist but an anti-tolerance and an unwillingness to unstrap the yoke of ignorance and really think.
Religion is a key contributor to this fact, most all religions not just yours. That and what appears to be an innate desire for everyone to believe they are right and anyone who disagrees does not know the "truth".

My "truth" differs from yours, fine. I am happy to share my "truth". So it seems are you, however I simply feel you're mistaken. You believe, it would seem, I'm damned unless I "find your truth".
Big difference and distinctly anti-tolerant.

edit on 13-2-2011 by Noncompatible because: (no reason given)

Did I say you are damned, that's your assessment about yourself not mine.
As for religion, it is man made, Christianity is not man made religion, it is the Word of God, and that Word of God became flesh. God's Word has no flaws, where as man made religion does. There is no way possible for a nonbeliever to get this, and that's because in order to understand a person must open his or her heart to The Lord for His understanding to manifest, it's like a third eye to the soul and mind that opens and begins to see and understand.
I make no judgment on you and what you choose or what you believe in. You challenge me and I will defend the Word of the Lord. I just stand for the truth in the Word of the Lord, and that's because I have gone through a lot and experienced a lot in my walk. I have a long way to go, I will never claim to be perfect, there is no one on this earth that is, there was only One that was perfect, and He ascended up to heaven and one day He will return.

Originally posted by Noncompatible
The notion of "mine is the only truth" is the real evil in the world, not an antichrist but an anti-tolerance and an unwillingness to unstrap the yoke of ignorance and really think.

to really think about what ? a new truth new laws and new philosophies ? what is your truth...

Religion is a key contributor to this fact, most all religions not just yours. That and what appears to be an innate desire for everyone to believe they are right and anyone who disagrees does not know the "truth"

ah the truth is so fleeting... why not try with a smaller religious sect then instead of the largest ? Jediism only has about half million followers via census but you are still not doing a very good job convincing this lowly Jedi.

My "truth" differs from yours, fine. I am happy to share my "truth". So it seems are you, however I simply feel you're mistaken. You believe, it would seem, I'm damned unless I "find your truth"

then what is your truth ? can you rewrite history for us in a nutshell without theism existing ? I am really curious to see where this fantasy leads.... maybe you can write a book or make a movie.

Originally posted by hawaii50th
Did I say you are damned, that's your assessment about yourself not mine.
As for religion, it is man made, Christianity is not man made religion, it is the Word of God, and that Word of God became flesh. God's Word has no flaws, where as man made religion does. There is no way possible for a nonbeliever to get this, and that's because in order to understand a person must open his or her heart to The Lord for His understanding to manifest, it's like a third eye to the soul and mind that opens and begins to see and understand.
I make no judgment on you and what you choose or what you believe in. You challenge me and I will defend the Word of the Lord. I just stand for the truth in the Word of the Lord, and that's because I have gone through a lot and experienced a lot in my walk. I have a long way to go, I will never claim to be perfect, there is no one on this earth that is, there was only One that was perfect, and He ascended up to heaven and one day He will return.

So in a nutshell. I must believe in your truth to know the truth. And though you do not judge me, you will defend your truth against me if I question or doubt it.

Sounds about right.

reply to post by Noncompatible

Thus while absolute truths may be hard to come by, and difficult to agree upon, some amount of truths are generally required for a properly functioning society. Whether these truths are absolute or universal is a matter that has been and will likely continue to be debated.

www.wisegeek.com...

An absolute truth, sometimes called a universal truth, is an unalterable and permanent fact. The concept of absolute truths - what they are and whether they exist - has been debated among many different groups of people. Philosophers have waded in the muck of defining absolute truth for millennia. For example, Plato believed that absolute truth existed, but that truth on earth was merely a shadow of great forms of absolute truth existing in the universe. Alternatively, many believe in relative truths, where facts may vary depending on the circumstances.

t’s difficult to disprove the concept of absolute truth, since saying that there are no absolute truths - that it is absolutely true that no absolute truth exists - is itself an absolute truth.

en.wikipedia.org...(philosophy)

In logic, or the consideration of valid arguments, a proposition is said to have universality if it can be conceived as being true in all possible contexts without creating a contradiction. Some philosophers have referred to such propositions as universalizable. Truth is considered to be universal if it is valid in all times and places. In this case, it is seen as eternal or as absolute. The relativist conception denies the existence of some or all universal truths, particularly ethical ones (through moral relativism). Mathematics is a field in which those truths discovered, in relation to the field of mathematics, are typically considerered of universal scope. Usage of the word truth has various domains of application, relativism does not necessarily apply to all of them. This is not to say that universality is limited to mathematics for there exists a large number of people who apply the standard to philosophy, theology and beyond.

First, cut 'n paste:

Never disputed this, so ok. Your "truth", my "truth". But no single "only truth" truth.

Second cut 'n paste does not actually contradict my position. It simply defines what an absolute truth would be IF it existed.

Third cut 'n paste is semantics. After all you disagree with me therefore my statement is not universally accepted and makes it disputable as an absolute.

Fourth cut 'n paste:
Lastly. When read you will see it does not confirm the existence of that which you are seeking to prove. It merely reiterates the very points I have already made and defines them as schools of thought.

Slavish devotion to the "one true path" is still the greatest form of evil in existence.
As always that is my personal truth.

reply to post by Noncompatible

Slavish devotion to the "one true path" is still the greatest form of evil in existence. As always that is my personal truth.

And I disagree with your "truth" since I know there are FAR worse and more pervasive, destructive forms of evil than slavish devotion to one true path.
The worst evil I might argue is schizophrenic and cannot maintain consistency in emotion or devotion.
Evil for evil's own sake. Causing pain to enjoy the suffering of others is a greater evil in my book and it is a real and pervasive problem. To dismiss the existence of actual evil claiming some dogma has inflicted more damage is merely self righteous indignation. Putting a bag over truths head and allowing real evil to escape.
That is my personal truth.

Originally posted by rusethorcain
reply to post by Noncompatible

 

Slavish devotion to the "one true path" is still the greatest form of evil in existence. As always that is my personal truth.

And I disagree with your "truth" since I know there are FAR worse and more pervasive, destructive forms of evil than slavish devotion to one true path.
The worst evil I might argue is schizophrenic and cannot maintain consistency in emotion or devotion.
Evil for evil's own sake. Causing pain to enjoy the suffering of others is a greater evil in my book and it is a real and pervasive problem. To dismiss the existence of actual evil claiming some dogma has inflicted more damage is merely self righteous indignation. Putting a bag over truths head and allowing real evil to escape.
That is my personal truth.

Evil in the name of good seems not to impinge on your awareness. It is the bane of mankind that providing one knows "the truth" and is righteous then one apparently can relabel evil as "for the greater good" at best and at worst blame it on a supernatural entity.
It appears good and evil are simply matters of perspective also.
The original topic being the "antichrist" makes this even more apparent since it displays mans willingness to apportion blame anywhere and everywhere rather than accept we are responsible for our own mess.

Originally posted by Noncompatible

Originally posted by hawaii50th
Did I say you are damned, that's your assessment about yourself not mine.
As for religion, it is man made, Christianity is not man made religion, it is the Word of God, and that Word of God became flesh. God's Word has no flaws, where as man made religion does. There is no way possible for a nonbeliever to get this, and that's because in order to understand a person must open his or her heart to The Lord for His understanding to manifest, it's like a third eye to the soul and mind that opens and begins to see and understand.
I make no judgment on you and what you choose or what you believe in. You challenge me and I will defend the Word of the Lord. I just stand for the truth in the Word of the Lord, and that's because I have gone through a lot and experienced a lot in my walk. I have a long way to go, I will never claim to be perfect, there is no one on this earth that is, there was only One that was perfect, and He ascended up to heaven and one day He will return.

So in a nutshell. I must believe in your truth to know the truth. And though you do not judge me, you will defend your truth against me if I question or doubt it.

Sounds about right.

You have a choice in what you want to believe as truth. All I'm doing is sharing a truth that is a divine truth that comes from our creator. The choice is yours in what you want to believe, if you want to reject the creator, that's your choice, and if you want to believe in some other belief that's your choice.
I know without a shadow of a doubt that we were created by God, and I stand firm on that belief.
You don't have to believe in my truth, God gave you that choice. You yourself have to come to terms in what you believe.
Luke 11:9 (New American Standard Bible)

9"So I say to you, ask, and it will be given to you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you.

Cross references:
Luke 11:9 : Matt 7:7-11


Revelation 3:19-21 (New American Standard Bible)

19'Those whom I love, I reprove and discipline; therefore be zealous and repent.

20'Behold, I stand at the door and knock; if anyone hears My voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and will dine with him, and he with Me.

21'He who overcomes, I will grant to him to sit down with Me on My throne, as I also overcame and sat down with My Father on His throne.

reply to post by Noncompatible

Evil in the name of good seems not to impinge on your awareness

No it doesn't impinge on my awareness the way it seems to obsessively on yours. Some people are afraid of dying in a plane crash when that particular fear is highly unlikely to happen...in truth. Ignorance is the bane of mankind. Evil is a predator picking off the herd.

It appears good and evil are simply matters of perspective also.

Not really.. at least to me...
Good and evil are matters of perspective in some cases, those apparent to you. In some other cases there is a clear distinction between right and wrong.
If we could not argue those we might unravel all those "gray areas" where it really is unclear who is right and who is wrong and the truth has to be ferreted out.

The original topic being the "antichrist" makes this even more apparent since it displays mans willingness to apportion blame anywhere and everywhere rather than accept we are responsible for our own mess.

Between accept and we...put Christ.
That makes this statement true.
If people were [like Christ] forget about subscribing to this or that religion because I know that does not matter at all - If people were "like Christ" the Messenger, we would not have ... "this mess."

Originally posted by Noncompatible

Originally posted by rusethorcain
reply to post by Noncompatible

 

Slavish devotion to the "one true path" is still the greatest form of evil in existence. As always that is my personal truth.

And I disagree with your "truth" since I know there are FAR worse and more pervasive, destructive forms of evil than slavish devotion to one true path.
The worst evil I might argue is schizophrenic and cannot maintain consistency in emotion or devotion.
Evil for evil's own sake. Causing pain to enjoy the suffering of others is a greater evil in my book and it is a real and pervasive problem. To dismiss the existence of actual evil claiming some dogma has inflicted more damage is merely self righteous indignation. Putting a bag over truths head and allowing real evil to escape.
That is my personal truth.

Evil in the name of good seems not to impinge on your awareness. It is the bane of mankind that providing one knows "the truth" and is righteous then one apparently can relabel evil as "for the greater good" at best and at worst blame it on a supernatural entity.
It appears good and evil are simply matters of perspective also.
The original topic being the "antichrist" makes this even more apparent since it displays mans willingness to apportion blame anywhere and everywhere rather than accept we are responsible for our own mess.

The human race has a sinful nature, where does this sinful nature come from?
We are also responsible for our own actions, are we able to stop ourselves at every level in life to not commit a lewd, dishonest, violent, jealous, envious, hateful, greedy, lustful, glutinous, etc. act? Can anyone say they have not sinned? Or committed some kind of unlawful act?
How can we stop ourselves from committing any act that is hurtful to the soul and to someone else? Or how can we lessen the awful things that we do? Do we need some kind of forgiveness, can we expect total forgiveness from our brother or sister in perfection?

Ephesians 6:11-20 (Amplified Bible)

11Put on God's whole armor [the armor of a heavy-armed soldier which God supplies], that you may be able successfully to stand up against [all] the strategies and the deceits of the devil.

12For we are not wrestling with flesh and blood [contending only with physical opponents], but against the despotisms, against the powers, against [the master spirits who are] the world rulers of this present darkness, against the spirit forces of wickedness in the heavenly (supernatural) sphere.

13Therefore put on God's complete armor, that you may be able to resist and stand your ground on the evil day [of danger], and, having done all [the crisis demands], to stand [firmly in your place].

14Stand therefore [hold your ground], having tightened the belt of truth around your loins and having put on the breastplate of integrity and of moral rectitude and right standing with God,

15And having shod your feet in preparation [to face the enemy with the [a]firm-footed stability, the promptness, and the readiness produced by the good news] of the Gospel of peace.(A)

16Lift up over all the [covering] shield of [c]saving faith, upon which you can quench all the flaming missiles of the wicked [one].

17And take the helmet of salvation and the sword that the Spirit [d]wields, which is the Word of God.

18Pray at all times (on every occasion, in every season) in the Spirit, with all [manner of] prayer and entreaty. To that end keep alert and watch with strong purpose and perseverance, interceding in behalf of all the saints (God's consecrated people).

19And [pray] also for me, that [freedom of] utterance may be given me, that I may open my mouth to proclaim boldly the mystery of the good news (the Gospel),

20For which I am an ambassador in a coupling chain [in prison. Pray] that I may declare it boldly and courageously, as I ought to do.

John 3:16 (Amplified Bible)

16For God so greatly loved and dearly prized the world that He [even] gave up His only begotten ([a]unique) Son, so that whoever believes in (trusts in, clings to, relies on) Him shall not perish (come to destruction, be lost) but have eternal (everlasting) life.

Salvation is free, but the truth will cost you everything. The truth will set you free. The treasure is beyond human comprehension.


John 14:6 (New American Standard Bible)

6Jesus said to him, "I am (A)the way, and (B)the truth, and (C)the life; no one comes to the Father but through Me.

John 14:6 (Amplified Bible)

6Jesus said to him, I am the Way and the Truth and the Life; no one comes to the Father except by (through) Me.