Life in the Universe

Originally posted by MrXYZ
and all that armchair patriotism and religious hogwash is proof of that...and so is our destructive treatment of the planet

you are a very patriotic active atheist I have to say

glancing at your flag of an avatar, throwing fists on the playground... and striking first only proves you are the most patriotic of the lot.

well you don't take the cake but

Originally posted by Cosmic.Artifact

Originally posted by MrXYZ
and all that armchair patriotism and religious hogwash is proof of that...and so is our destructive treatment of the planet

you are a very patriotic active atheist I have to say

glancing at your flag of an avatar, throwing fists on the playground... and striking first only proves you are the most patriotic of the lot.

well you don't take the cake but

The avatar is meant sarcastically...because a lot of creationists see atheists that way. Thanks for proving that

Originally posted by MrXYZ

The avatar is meant sarcastically...because a lot of creationists see atheists that way.

what creationists are doing this to you, who sees you anyway besides the way you paint yourself dude... lay off the utube videos and get some real though patterns... or do you really think that way for real inside your quite visible brain

Thanks for proving that

the only thing I am proving is the obvious... you waive your patriotic flag high, you attack... I will crush you with my sword of ideology

stop giving out bloody-noses specially to new arrivals and this big dog won't bite your arse

your obviously not a Trekkie/Roddenberry minded kinda fella eh ? sad indeed if all you are is Star Wars

I blame the television programming in your neck of the woods

reply to post by MrXYZ


now... would you like to discuss the Neil Tyson video you posted ?

it is quite short so we can break it down right when he says the word "Cosmic"

Originally posted by MrXYZ
Anyway, back on topic...

ok... anyway I still say that "we" are a successful and proven way that intelligent life able to question it's own existence/meaning in the universe has arisen (we are a way for the universe to know itself as Sagan would put it)

if this is one way... or could it be the only way ? that self-aware life has to go through the process of reconstitution, what if it is the only way in which the universe evolves life that is self-aware or we consider intelligent ?

since we are alone then whats to say there are not other humans out there ? not aliens not speaking lizards ect... I am talking human just like us... regardless if we are on the same timeline or not, using mathematics this can be calculated to an exact number of how many planets have life out there just like ours, and I am talking exactly... no variation.... the laws f physics are the same throughout our one Uni-verse.

we have earth... it is an example... applying mystical math this can be calculated somehow, don't ask me how, but Sagan and all the Cosmic-Physicist of sorts speak in tune with their saying about the possibility of life and the all the grains of sand on all the beaches.

aliens are us - we are them

ALIENS"Я"US

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/82162292041a.jpg[/atsimg]
now don't go breaking your toys ! might not get a new one...

Humans evolved because of very specific environmental conditions that include earth's gravity, vegetation, landscape features, and number of other external influences and mutations. For humans to exist elsewhere in the universe, the exact same requirements would have to be met...including mass extinctions exactly like on earth.

I'd say the chances of that are rather slim

Let's for a second pretend some islands are other planets "similar" to our own. Just look at the incredible number of species that only exist on one island and nowhere else, even if the environment is similar in the region.

Humanoid lifeforms maybe, but exactly like us to the point where we would call them homo sapiens, I highly doubt it...

Originally posted by MrXYZ
Humans evolved because of very specific environmental conditions that include earth's gravity, vegetation, landscape features, and number of other external influences and mutations. For humans to exist elsewhere in the universe, the exact same requirements would have to be met...including mass extinctions exactly like on earth.

well I am looking more specifically for the equation of this, which includes variables and the possibility of life giving rise in exactly the same way... here we are afterall, we are one way. Are you saying your equation for this is just 0 ? it's almost like saying we do not exist.

I'd say the chances of that are rather slim

can you show me this in a formulated equation

Let's for a second pretend some islands are other planets "similar" to our own.

how can we even begin to imagine or pretend without data or an equation ? I would like the equation to start off asking the question... "here we are" if you claim the chances are very slim with no supporting equation then that is like saying we are very special in the universe and this chance of happenings was most miracle like, we are unique... but if it is not a miracle then why are the chances very slim if we are made of the most common stuff in the universe ? if we're common then there should be life like ours (all life on earth) everywhere in the universe. because we are here)

Just look at the incredible number of species that only exist on one island and nowhere else, even if the environment is similar in the region.

I agree all that stuff is here and all of it is evidence of atleast only one way the universe gives rise to life (planet earth) I am looking for the math here... all we have when we ask this question my topic wants to address, well all we have is earth and what we know to give us a foundation and a start to the question.

Humanoid lifeforms maybe, but exactly like us to the point where we would call them homo sapiens, I highly doubt it...

why doubt ? lets use symbolic math for this... if life is here and this is a successful way in which it gives rise then there must be atleast 1 other place just like this... perfect distance from their star, have an external object producing tides and winds, having a magnetic field, ect... if we apply the math approaching the question with "yes" here we are, here life is... the math I am sure would come back to reflect more than 1 exact same place (regardless if there are other ways or not) all we have to go on is ourselves and what we know, we are 'fact and 'evidence' of life... why look into the unknown or pretend ?

in fact why are scientist searching for planets at same distances from their source star at the moment ? it is one of the latest trends in astronomy...

Evolution of the universe and on Earth is fact yes... but it is only a footnote.

The questions run deeper, questions like where did the lighter elements that were condensed down into heavy elements in the heart of stars come from ? where did the star come from ?

the human mind is never going to stop questioning... for there would be no progress... this very "cosmic" journey is quite spiritual, in fact that is what Cosmic means... derived from a word Cosmos meaning "order"

I think all religions have been here, those men of old who named the Cosmos asked these basic questions... this is what the scientists are set out to answer, biology and stuff is just a footnote because it doesn't ask the bigger or right questions... yet we have some like Mr Dawkins attempting to and actually outright denying the big question, but his mind stops short because he is not in the right field... he does not have a grasp of the duality or the perception of both.

what was it that Einstein said again...
"Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind.

then why are people like Dawkins trying to put a stop to the question and advancement ? It would seem these are the types trying to thrust us into the next lame arse dark age...

reply to post by Cosmic.Artifact


To get a formula you'd need to fullfil so many requirements:

1) Exactly same gravity.
2) Same weather patterns...including the exact same variations at the same time...like ice ages.
3) Exact same migratory paths of animals as on earth...which means you need the same landscape.
4) Same mass extinction events.
5) Same mutations...so the exact same randomness
6) The plantet would need to be the same in every respect, as evolution makes animals/plants adapt to their exact environment. Same water temperatures depending on location, the exact same climate.

Given that our sample size of planets is only a bit over 500, it would currently be impossible to calculate an accurate figure. We don't even know how many planets there are, or what % is earth like to the point where everything would play out the same. Evolution is incredibly complex, and it took 3.5bil years for humans to evolve due to VERY specific conditions...chances of having the exact same conditions including all randomness being the same on another planet should be incredibly slim imo.

There's too many unknown variables to calculate what you're asking...which shows that the end figure is probably pretty small. Chances for life in general are quite good though imo, everything we have on earth can be found elsewhere, it's just the composition of parts (climate, gravity, distance from sun, etc.) that's different.

Originally posted by MrXYZ
reply to post by Cosmic.Artifact

 

To get a formula you'd need to fulfill so many requirements:

actually this question I ask is very basic... the requirement is the question, "all life on earth" all life is of the same stuff/elements. What are the chances of it forming or giving rise exactly like it successfully did here ? I am asking a "positive" question... what are the chances of the exact same conditions as on earth happening elsewhere ? regardless of environmental or other factors, all we have to go on is here and what we know.

makes one wonder what happened to Dawkins being so adamant against spirituality ? more specifically Roman Catholicism (like a lot of Britons view Christianity, very one sided because they were jaded somehow)

so what happened to Dawkins and others like him ? ...did he watch too many movies like Zeitgeist or books that were it's forerunners ? did he lose his daughter to the Church and "the bigger question" ?

ahh no need to delve into the psychological aspects of his reasoning, he either knows this and is playing on it, or he was genuinely jaded... but I doubt he seriously "knows"

reply to post by Cosmic.Artifact


I think you're underestimating how complex evolution is...us getting to where we are now in terms of evolution is the result of soooooo many past events, even given the size of the universe, given the number of variables, it's highly unlikely to get "exactly the same".

Similar...maybe...exactly the same...highly unlikely. Either way, due to evolution's complexity, there's just too many variable to get "exactly the same". I'm talking about MILLIONS of variables, possibly billions or more. I know you want a formula, but I hope you understand that would take years, and even then, due to randomness which is almost impossible to calculate, it won't be accurate.

Originally posted by MrXYZ
reply to post by Cosmic.Artifact

 

I think you're underestimating how complex evolution is...

evolution is not complex, it is very simple when taken into another question or added to the equation.

Evolutionary science stops down here it would seem ?

if there was a mathematical symbol to represent all evolution as "fact" and summed up as simply as (E=+True) or something... then we take that and add it to the equation on the chalk-board. true or false it can be expressed mathematically right ? all things can be expressed using math remember...

remember XYZ and whatever readers... I am not an YEC specifically I am not only looking at it from one angle, I am looking at it from more like three angles... every person who is a spiritual theist does not think the earth is 6000 years old only, but I eat that too... I consume it.

I believe in evolution, I say it happened in the universe and with life... this is where we come to the Big Bang thingy really... I look at it from all angles that I can, OEC, YEC, No Creation, ect...

Originally posted by Cosmic.Artifact

Originally posted by MrXYZ
reply to post by Cosmic.Artifact

 

I think you're underestimating how complex evolution is...

evolution is not complex, it is very simple when taken into another question or added to the equation.

Evolutionary science stops down here it would seem ?

if there was a mathematical symbol to represent all evolution as "fact" and summed up as simply as (E=+True) or something... then we take that and add it to the equation on the chalk-board. true or false it can be expressed mathematically right ? all things can be expressed using math remember...

You can't just dumb something as complex as evolution down like that...and yes, it is VERY COMPLEX.

I have also read this...

John 14:6
"Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, and the truth, and the life"

which is also posted on a bridge underpass in a movie called "the book of Eli"

but that's besides the point, I just noticed it when I watched it

diversity of all angles, faiths, facts and observations is the key. Books, knowledge, trial/error, fact and fiction help science go on to the next level.

what is life ? scientifically and spiritually... it is one in the same.

Originally posted by MrXYZ
You can't just dumb something as complex as evolution down like that...and yes, it is VERY COMPLEX.

evolution is not complex... it happened right ?

add it to the chalk-board, it's all I am asking and is being done with it anyway.

a footnote or another symbol in the equation, that is all...

reply to post by MrXYZ


the way I see it...

it is you young Jedi and the chapters of Zeitgeisters (yes it has chapters, check youtube) who have been duped by the NWO's agenda which is to pit the populace against eachother so we may take our eye of the ball and spend time busy squabbling amongst eachother, and hate eachother which could also possibly give rise to war, death and destruction for the sinister population reduction scheme or any other conspiracy motive that may be out there.

and the blind is biting hard !

stop being puppets... Co-Existence is the key !

break free