Life in the Universe

Originally posted by MrXYZ
You might wanna look up the definitions, they're science just as much as astrophysics...even if you don't like that, it's a fact

oh yes... and as we are discovering there are surely different fields of science correct?

ethical and moral in application, or not...

Originally posted by Cosmic.Artifact

Originally posted by MrXYZ
If Hitler came up with the theory of evolution, it would still be valid. It doesn't matter who comes up with a theory,

yes I too believe nazi eugenics and sociobiology revolved very much around his "theory" of Evolution.

good point...

And I believe Christians are nazis because the pope cooperated with them. Americans are also nazis because many big American corporations also cooperated with nazis.

reply to post by Cosmic.Artifact
you have to understand people have beliefs that sometimes counter their scientific practices, even today there are some scientists that employ tireless methods of research and analysis only to have political and social beliefs that are the complete opposite of what they are trying to theorize scientifically.

the founders of modern Darwinian understanding, J.B.S. Haldane and R.A. Fisher, were both eugenicists from the early 20th centruy, yet eugenics is the antithesis of modern Darwinian thought, which is centered around a drive for genetic diversity

when we get emotional, we get irrational, and you have to try to separate from what perspective a scientist is writing from

"The Selfish Gene" is a science book, "The God Delusion" was written from an emotional state with elements of science mixed with his own irascible views based on religious anecdotes

Originally posted by Cosmic.Artifact
he should convert to Islam or move to an Islamic state in my opinion.

I think it's you who should convert to Islam and move to a Islamic state, as they share your passion of dismissing science and believing into fairy tales instead. You even worship the same deity. Win win for you.

Originally posted by rhinoceros

Originally posted by Cosmic.Artifact

Originally posted by MrXYZ
If Hitler came up with the theory of evolution, it would still be valid. It doesn't matter who comes up with a theory,

yes I too believe nazi eugenics and sociobiology revolved very much around his "theory" of Evolution.

good point...

And I believe Christians are nazis because the pope cooperated with them. Americans are also nazis because many big American corporations also cooperated with nazis.

oh I am terribly sorry for that...

personally I think you are confusing Roman Catholicism with Protestant Christianity.

only an education and awareness of history along with the denial of propaganda and ignorance is required to learn of these facts...

Originally posted by uva3021
reply to post by Cosmic.Artifact

 

you have to understand people have beliefs that sometimes counter their scientific practices, even today there are some scientists that employ tireless methods of research and analysis only to have political and social beliefs that are the complete opposite of what they are trying to theorize scientifically.

the founders of modern Darwinian understanding, J.B.S. Haldane and R.A. Fisher, were both eugenicists from the early 20th centruy, yet eugenics is the antithesis of modern Darwinian thought, which is centered around a drive for genetic diversity

then we will have to let it run it's course... America happens to be quite diverse and made up of all the gene pools. heh!

when we get emotional, we get irrational, and you have to try to separate from what perspective a scientist is writing from

oh there it is again I am not Emo or irrational, I just fight fire with fire and fight the good fight.

"The Selfish Gene" is a science book, "The God Delusion"

I say let the titles alone speak for themselves and Mr Dawkins.

Originally posted by rhinoceros

Originally posted by Cosmic.Artifact
he should convert to Islam or move to an Islamic state in my opinion.

I think it's you who should convert to Islam and move to a Islamic state, as they share your passion of dismissing science and believing into fairy tales instead. You even worship the same deity

let not confuse ideologies with swords and fairy tales with facts and history shall we...

. Win win for you.

God bless America !

Originally posted by Cosmic.Artifact
personally I think you are confusing Roman Catholicism with Protestant Christianity.

Nope. Within Germany lots of protestant clergy believed that Nazism was in essence in accordance with Christian precepts. In fact most nazis were protestants. Texts of Luther were used to support German nationalism. This is all common knowledge.

Originally posted by rhinoceros
Texts of Luther were used to support German nationalism. This is all common knowledge.

and the keyword here is... "used"

lets wrap our minds around that one...

Originally posted by Cosmic.Artifact

Originally posted by rhinoceros
Texts of Luther were used to support German nationalism. This is all common knowledge.

and the keyword here is... "used"

lets wrap our minds around that one...

Wrap your mind around the fact that it's no different to how Darwin's book was used by the nazis.

now furthering our education of American history, who is it that held off the hoards of radical racial sociologically minded madmen and let the Russians vent some steam down in Berlin ?

who were the French crying in the streets for... us or themselves ?

you decide... the films and book I have seen and read is after the fact and when our troops where liberating most all of Europe.

reply to post by Cosmic.Artifact

America only joined the war when it was first attacked by the axis powers. Also one of your allies was very much involved in starting the whole war and invaded many countries. Also tried to invade my country, but failed. The allies were just as bad as the axis powers, perhaps even worse. I'm pretty sure dear Stalin exterminated even more people than Hitler.

Also all this has nothing to do with the topic. Also puritan Americans are guilty of genocide, just some 100 years before the nazis.

Originally posted by rhinoceros
reply to post by Cosmic.Artifact

 

America only joined the war when it was first attacked by the axis powers. Also one of your allies was very much involved in starting the whole war and invaded many countries. Also tried to invade my country, but failed. The allies were just as bad as the axis powers, perhaps even worse. I'm pretty sure dear Stalin exterminated even more people than Hitler.

Also all this has nothing to do with the topic.

it was our sheer industrial might and man power, wave after wave upon the beaches... I can understand now and by viewing history why some of the men of old politics were hesitant.

facts are facts... and here we have the outcome, so we shift into the new paradigm...

Originally posted by rhinoceros
Also all this has nothing to do with the topic.

oh but on the otherhand it has alot to do with the topic if you just view things a little more holistic...

"Life in the Universe" isn't it interesting ?

there are those who stop co-existence and furthering of humanity with sheer ignorance from the propaganda they received from such movies like Zeitgeist and tons of other liberal communistic aristocratic mind funk conspiracies.

this topic started off trying to discuss life elsewhere in the universe and the possibilities of it, let it speak for itself.

my word is my sword... anyone else wish to draw it for me ?

reply to post by Cosmic.Artifact

There is nothing more ignorant than believing something to be true just because you're told so. Like how fundamental Christians believe that the Bible is the truth.

Originally posted by rhinoceros
reply to post by Cosmic.Artifact

 

There is nothing more ignorant than believing something to be true just because you're told so. Like how fundamental Christians believe that the Bible is the truth.

speak up then... what is your "truth" ?

have you no sword ? and wish only to cower in the pit of ignorance...

Protestants, catholics, muslims, hindus...all clueless, but they all claim to spread "the truth". For an outsider and rational person it's highly amusing, kinda like watching monkeys fling poo at eachother

They all claim to know the unknowable, but really have no clue and just repeat whatever 2000 year old goat herders believed in their limited knowledge.

Anyway, back on topic...

One of the main reason we haven't found extraterrestrial life yet is that the distances are just so huge. To give you an example:

Our radio waves spread out into space, and the first radiowave is now around 70 light years from earth. So, if we expect an answer, the furthest civilization that could do so is only 35 light years away...because it takes 35 light years to get there, and 35 light years to get a message back that we are actually listening to. That's a RIDICULOUSLY small distance given the size of the universe...

Also, to repost Tyson:


There's 2 possibilities if there's life out there (and chances are good):

1) It's "dumb" bacterial or lower animal lifeforms that can't communicate. In that case, they couldn't reply and it would be really hard to find them with our current means for that reason.

2) It's intelligent life. Now, if it's so intelligent that it could get to us, it also means they don't really have a reason to come at all. They'd be soooooo much more intelligent, and their technology would be sooooo far above ours, they really wouldn't have anything to gain from visiting or talking to us. Kinda like us walking past an ant hill. How many of you stop to talk to ants??

And then there's of course the classification of life according to the Kardashev scale.

According to Michio Kaku, another reason why we haven't found them yet is because a lot of civilizations might just destroy themselves at a certain point. During the cold war, we narrowly escaped a nuclear war that might have wiped out the entire planet. Just look at how fragmented the world is in terms of politics. This thread is a good example because it shows how many arm chair patriots there are, and those people are so deluded, they see everyone else as "lesser beings" and their country being the best...which looked at rationally is complete hogwash. The same goes for religions. And now add wars for resources, because believe it or not, our planet's resources aren't infinite...especially if we don't act sustainably.

My point is, IF there's intelligent life out there, and they really could get to us...why would they?? They'd have to deal with 200+ different nations, all wanting special treatments, and all trying to one-up other countries. An intelligent race, with the technology to get here, could only get that far by not being as self-destructive as we are. Given that, it's no surprise that we have no proof of intelligent life out there, imo they simply have no reason to come to us...unless they're coming for resources. But you'd have to think about what resources as there's plenty of water in the universe, and nothing on earth is so special that you couldn't find it elsewhere. Any metal's available elsewhere, same goes for gases...and I highly doubt they're coming for our oil like the US in Iraq

In short, all that patriotic and religious nonsense puts us humans in a very bad light, we look backwards...and I doubt an intelligent species would want to contact us even if they could. We're not that different from Neanderthals fighting over the best prime rib or woman...or the crusaders who went to the middle east to slaughter others because of their religion, or the suicide bombers.

All you armchair patriots and religious fanatics who believe only you have the real truth, and all others are wrong (Taoism...we crapped it out..right Cosmic??) look incredibly silly and childish imo!

And the saddest part is, most aren't even humble enough that objectively, they don't have "the truth" or all the answers. As if they can't live without making up fairy tales and other crap. Christians, Muslims, Hindus...all of them do it, and they're all delusional for all I care...

reply to post by MrXYZ
a society intelligent enough to reach distant stars and galaxies would surely let reason be the better judgment of a potential voyage, because if we set off on a journey into space, by the time the destination is reached, we would have developed the technology to go 10x as far, so "intelligent" creatures would surely have considered this and decided it was best just to stay put

besides there is no reason to think "intelligence" has any long-term survival value

Originally posted by uva3021
reply to post by MrXYZ

 

a society intelligent enough to reach distant stars and galaxies would surely let reason be the better judgment of a potential voyage, because if we set off on a journey into space, by the time the destination is reached, we would have developed the technology to go 10x as far, so "intelligent" creatures would surely have considered this and decided it was best just to stay put

besides there is no reason to think "intelligence" has any long-term survival value

edit on 8-2-2011 by uva3021 because: (no reason given)

Intelligence was probably the wrong word I used. I'm talking about reasons for them to come here, because it's highly unlikely they will come here by accident given the enormous size of the universe.

No matter their psyche, there's only 2 reasons they might wanna come no matter if they're "intelligent" according to what we consider intelligent:

1) Resources: Nothing on earth can't be found anywhere else, all the components are out there. So them coming for resources other than meat is highly unlikely. If they do come for meat, we're screwed because any race able to travel such huge distances would wipe us out in a day.

2) Curiosity: Well, now you have to think about what of our culture could possibly be interesting to a race so advanced. If they have biologists that do general surveys like we do, maybe...but even then, they could probably pull it off without us knowing or figuring out they're even here. Kinda like we grab a few ants from an ant hill to study them. The rest of the ants have no clue about where those other 5 ants went

I truly believe we think we're way more intelligent than we really are, and all that armchair patriotism and religious hogwash is proof of that...and so is our destructive treatment of the planet

reply to post by MrXYZ


there you go XYZ, now we are delving into the "Star Trek" universe

have you ever got into TNG, VOY, ENT, much ? Roddenberry is way beyond Star Wars, heh!