Guantánamo Prisoner Dies After Being Held for Nine Years Without Charge or Trial

reply to post by MajorCee


It seems we have among us a person who believes that it is OK to keep someone locked-up indefinitely - - without trial - - without any evidence of wrongdoing being presented - - without Lawyers being allowed to see any evidence (if there was any).

Well be very careful MajorGee, it might be you next time.

Send us a Postcard from Guantanamo, won`t you? Tell us how you get on.

reply to post by exroyalnavy


Stay out of the shower though won't you majorcee, wouldn't want that to happen to you would we now....don't answer that.

Another innocent put through hell, robbed of dignity and life under

Since he has had no trial, you are just speculating that he
is innocent.

How can anybody be arrested and detained for nothing?

You assume he was arrested? All these prisoners were picked
up on the battle field. They were not sitting at home watching
TV. In fact most of them have even admitted their guilt, and
are proud of it.

In all 9 years of serving time at gitmo, Awal Gul was never even
charged with a crime, let alone found guilty.

Millions of POWs have been held prisoner for years without
ever being charged with a crime. I have known some of them
personally. What makes these gitmo idiots special?
If Al Qaeda cared about them, they could call
their war off. They don't though even though they are
having their heads handed to them continually. I have
no mercy on such idiots. The human genetic pool will be
better off without these idiots.

It seems we have among us a person who believes that it is
OK to keep someone locked-up indefinitely - - without trial -
- without any evidence of wrongdoing being presented - -
without Lawyers being allowed to see any evidence (if there
was any).

Yes I believe it is quite proper to hold POWs without a trial,
and the rest of the world has done this for a very long time.
Al Qaeda and the Mujahadeen though did not hold people without
trials. They just kill their captives. I served in a war
where a number of my companions were held years without
a trial. They would have been happy to exchange their treatment
for what the prisoners at Gitmo receive. Serving in a
war carries certain risks and these idiots knew the risks
going in.I give them no mercy and no apologies.

Originally posted by MajorCee

Another innocent put through hell, robbed of dignity and life under

Since he has had no trial, you are just speculating that he
is innocent.

Might I offer the following...

The presumption of innocence, sometimes referred by the Latin Ei incumbit probatio qui dicit, non qui negat (the principle that one is considered innocent until proven guilty) is a legal right of the accused in a criminal trial, recognised in many nations. The burden of proof is thus on the prosecution, which has to collect and present enough compelling evidence to convince the trier of fact, who is restrained and ordered by law to consider only actual evidence and testimony that is legally admissible, and in most cases lawfully obtained, that the accused is guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. In case of remaining doubts, the accused is to be acquitted. This presumption is seen to stem from the Latin legal principle that ei incumbit probatio qui dicit, non qui negat (the burden of proof rests on who asserts, not on who denies).

Although the Constitution of the United States does not cite it explicitly, presumption of innocence is widely held to follow from the 5th, 6th, and 14th amendments. See also Coffin v. United States and In re Winship. en.wikipedia.org...

Might I offer the following...

POWs are not citizens and do not get the rights of citizens.

It is not all bad for them though, because if they just declare and
end to hostilities, the POWs get released, even if they did kiil
people. You see, war has different rules, and some are even
less restrictive than what citizens have to bear up to.

These POWs get great treatment. They should have just been
shot on the battlefield.

Originally posted by MajorCee

Might I offer the following...

POWs are not citizens and do not get the rights of citizens.

It is not all bad for them though, because if they just declare and
end to hostilities, the POWs get released, even if they did kiil
people. You see, war has different rules, and some are even
less restrictive than what citizens have to bear up to.

These POWs get great treatment. They should have just been
shot on the battlefield.

That, then, would be the same reciprocal treatment that you wish for your own prisoners? Cuz that's what you're asking for. Remember...your government's conduct in these phony wars tightened a lot of rope at Nuremberg...what goes around, comes around, then don't the piggies squeal?

Originally posted by MajorCee

Another innocent put through hell, robbed of dignity and life under

Since he has had no trial, you are just speculating that he
is innocent.

How can anybody be arrested and detained for nothing?

You assume he was arrested? All these prisoners were picked
up on the battle field. They were not sitting at home watching
TV. In fact most of them have even admitted their guilt, and
are proud of it.

In all 9 years of serving time at gitmo, Awal Gul was never even
charged with a crime, let alone found guilty.

Millions of POWs have been held prisoner for years without
ever being charged with a crime. I have known some of them
personally. What makes these gitmo idiots special?
If Al Qaeda cared about them, they could call
their war off. They don't though even though they are
having their heads handed to them continually. I have
no mercy on such idiots. The human genetic pool will be
better off without these idiots.

It seems we have among us a person who believes that it is
OK to keep someone locked-up indefinitely - - without trial -
- without any evidence of wrongdoing being presented - -
without Lawyers being allowed to see any evidence (if there
was any).

Yes I believe it is quite proper to hold POWs without a trial,
and the rest of the world has done this for a very long time.
Al Qaeda and the Mujahadeen though did not hold people without
trials. They just kill their captives. I served in a war
where a number of my companions were held years without
a trial. They would have been happy to exchange their treatment
for what the prisoners at Gitmo receive. Serving in a
war carries certain risks and these idiots knew the risks
going in.I give them no mercy and no apologies.

None of the prisoners at Guantanamo are prisoners of war.
None were picked up on the battlefield.
None of your posts here contain any truth unless some was included by accident.

If you had actually served in any war you'd know the difference between prisoners of war and Guantanamo prisoners.
Or do you call posting bullcrap serving in a war?

If you had actually served in any war you'd know the difference between prisoners of war and Guantanamo prisoners.Or do you call posting bullcrap serving in a war?

I have actually served in a war, I also served with people that were POWs, I fortunately
did not get captured, but I did my combat time. Any jihadist member or supporter who
says otherwise, quite simply has no idea of the truth. Actually before I went to war,
my first room mate in college was an ex POW from Korea. I know plenty about serving
and I know plenty of ex POWs.

If your government will find a way to legally do this to non-US citizen then they will find a way to do it to you.

What absolute drivel, you might as well have said,
"If your government will find a way to legally keep aliens out,
it is only a matter of time before they find a way to keep
citizens out"

Al Qaeda, btw, was a creation of the CIA, and Obama was funded by
the CIA, through America's old allies, the Pakistan ISI, to
recruit members for Al Qaeda.

Wrong! Al Qaeda was created by the mujahadeen, with the same
leaders. The Mujahadeen was funded by the US and Saudi Arabia
sharing the costs 50-50, and this was when they were fighting
the Russians.

I wish there was a way to give people negative stars, but I see
it wouldn't matter if your case because you have none. Probably
make a lot of ignorant and outright disgusting posts huh?

If you read the rules of decorum for this site, personal attacks
are a no-no. This above was a direct personal attack. You
gave no real logical argument, you just attacked me, saying I
make ignorant and disgusting posts. Put the examples of posts
up that you disagree with. Then show where they are logically
wrong. Only someone with no real argument resorts to just
calling the other person "ignorant". If you would really
like to show some intelligence and maturity, attack the message
with real arguments not name calling. Next time you pull this
I will take it to the moderators. No more warnings.

Why are you even on this site? This site is to "DENY IGNORANCE" and

Exampe of personal attack. Give a concrete example of ignorance.
No example, then you really don't have an argument. Just
childish name calling.

It seems we have among us a person who believes that it is
OK to keep someone locked-up indefinitely - - without trial
- - without any evidence of wrongdoing being presented - -
without Lawyers being allowed to see any evidence (if there was any)

Yep, this is the way it works in wars, and the other side
is even worse. When they capture our people they execute
them, they don't even need prisons. Get worked up about
them if you have to get worked up. I know, you Muslim
brotherhood members and supporters think you can come on
to this site and effect some support for jihadists and
terrorists, but you are only talking to yourselves. No
one with any supprt to the country takes this garbage
seriously about POWs being given trials, it is nothing
but extremist members and supporters trying to get some
influence into our country. You are wasting your time,
there is no influence here. There is only pretense of
influence. You don't have any more than one or two
views of this propaganda per state. Just look at the
number of views per post. You are getting no audience.
On top of that, anyone with a brain, can put your arguments
to rest with no trouble. I got a little time on my hands
and will chop you off at the knees and hand you your
head, any time I feel like it. This statement refers to
debating competence, not violence, so don't even go
there.

Originally posted by MajorCee

It seems we have among us a person who believes that it is
OK to keep someone locked-up indefinitely - - without trial
- - without any evidence of wrongdoing being presented - -
without Lawyers being allowed to see any evidence (if there was any)

Yep, this is the way it works in wars, and the other side
is even worse. When they capture our people they execute
them, they don't even need prisons. Get worked up about
them if you have to get worked up. I know, you Muslim
brotherhood members and supporters think you can come on
to this site and effect some support for jihadists and
terrorists, but you are only talking to yourselves. No
one with any supprt to the country takes this garbage
seriously about POWs being given trials, it is nothing
but extremist members and supporters trying to get some
influence into our country. You are wasting your time,
there is no influence here. There is only pretense of
influence. You don't have any more than one or two
views of this propaganda per state. Just look at the
number of views per post. You are getting no audience.
On top of that, anyone with a brain, can put your arguments
to rest with no trouble. I got a little time on my hands
and will chop you off at the knees and hand you your
head, any time I feel like it. This statement refers to
debating competence, not violence, so don't even go
there.

edit on 17-2-2011 by MajorCee because: (no reason given)

None of that speaks to due process that comes down to you through common law. To cite the behavior of the bad guys as an excuse is to admit they won.

War is what happens when common rules of civility
breakdown on a very large scale.

It is commonly accepted through society that people
should not be killing each other, or stealing from
each other. When these things are done on an
individual basis, then they have been taken care
of through individual justice systems for centuries,
such as giving individuals trials and punishment.

What happens though when these laws are broken
on a large scale? When large groups of armed
individuals train, and then proceed to venture
into another society, and kill in large numbers,
or take the property of those in another large
society. Now a court system does not work,
because of the large numbers that are invovled
and because the individuals live in separated
parts of the world.

When this happpens, the rules of civility have
broken down and now war is the result. Eventually
the differences are settled, but while this
breakdown of society is going on, the normal
rules of civility are put aside. It is not
until the war ends that the normal rules can
once again be used.

This is the current state of affairs with the
US and Al Qaeda. Al Qaeda is a large organization
of tens of thousands isolated in different areas
around the world, by and large hid from view from
the US. Yet this group is dedicated to a take
over of the world under one central control,
called the caliphate. As long as this group is
dedicated to this venture, of training and
sending its soldiers to various areas to advance
this idiotic plan, the breakdown of normal
civility will remain in place, that is, the
state of war will continue between Al Qaeda
and the US. This Al Qaeda's stated purpose.

Prisoners taken during this breakdown cannot
be let go to return to their stated goal. We are
actually within the normal stated parameters of
being able to kill these individuals whenever
we come across them in battle. The fact that
we have not killed some of them when encountered
has resulted in keeping them locked up in
Guantanimo.

If you people want these locked up individuals
to be returned to normal rules of civility,
then they have to stop their idiotic quest
for world rule under the caliphate. Yet,
Al Qaeda does not have any plans to stop
this effort. They just keep up with their
plans even though, they have been dealt a
defeat at every turn. This is lunacy, but
it is the lunacy they choose. The ones locked
up chose this lunacy, and now they reap the
rewards of the normal rules of civility breaking
down. They can either be killed or kept in
captivity until their efforts are abandoned
by their organization.

What the idiots are wanting that insist on trials
for all these prisoners, is that they want the
normal rules of society to be used when those
rules have broken down. The definition of war
is that those rules are no longer being used.
So deal with it, they are not going to be handled
under the normal rules.

reply to post by MajorCee


Let me guess... you think Al Qaeda perpetraded 911?

Originally posted by MajorCee
What the idiots are wanting that insist on trials
for all these prisoners, is that they want the
normal rules of society to be used when those
rules have broken down. The definition of war
is that those rules are no longer being used.
So deal with it, they are not going to be handled
under the normal rules.

Which is to say, despite all the "Mission Accomplished" and jingoistic Bravo Sierra...the bad guys won!

Instead of locking up people for fighting back, I'd suggest you analyze how it was you lost...and perhaps try to identify the real enemy.

Even after the fact.

Originally posted by MajorCee
Al Qaeda is a large organization
of tens of thousands isolated in different areas
around the world, by and large hid from view from
the US.

Yet not six months ago, the head of your CIA said the following:

CIA director Leon Panetta told ABC News in June that al-Qaeda’s presence in Afghanistan was now “relatively small … I think at most, we’re looking at maybe 50 to 100.” And in next door Pakistan, arguably the more dangerous long-term threat, there were about 300 al Qaeda leaders and fighters, officials separately estimated. blogs.reuters.com...

Good thing you found the rest of them. Maybe send a note to Arlington.

I'd suggest you analyze how it was you lost...and perhaps try to identify the real enemy.

We absolutely won. If we lost as you proclaim, then these prisoners would be back home
celebrating with their cohorts. How much celebrating do you see? You see none. You
even hear begging that they be released or tried, or whatever.

This was actually the most successful war we ever fought. If you want to argue with that
you might want to post a rebuttal to this thread here that talks a lot about how good
the war went. Go ahead make my day, click on the link below and try to argue how
bad we got beat.

The link:
www.abovetopsecret.com...

..

reply to post by MajorCee

I don't need to engage in lengthly rebuttals. The bad guys...whoever they may be...managed to turn the US into a page out of 1984. A place where a woman's purse is searched before boarding a Mississippi Riverboat for a jazz dinner cruise. On the orders of the Coast Guard.

Sorry Sparky...the bad guys won. Some folks just don't know it.

Yet.

Originally posted by MajorCee

It seems we have among us a person who believes that it is
OK to keep someone locked-up indefinitely - - without trial
- - without any evidence of wrongdoing being presented - -
without Lawyers being allowed to see any evidence (if there was any)

Yep, this is the way it works in wars, and the other side
is even worse. When they capture our people they execute
them, they don't even need prisons. Get worked up about
them if you have to get worked up. I know, you Muslim
brotherhood members and supporters think you can come on
to this site and effect some support for jihadists and
terrorists, but you are only talking to yourselves. No
one with any supprt to the country takes this garbage
seriously about POWs being given trials, it is nothing
but extremist members and supporters trying to get some
influence into our country. You are wasting your time,
there is no influence here. There is only pretense of
influence. You don't have any more than one or two
views of this propaganda per state. Just look at the
number of views per post. You are getting no audience.
On top of that, anyone with a brain, can put your arguments
to rest with no trouble. I got a little time on my hands
and will chop you off at the knees and hand you your
head, any time I feel like it. This statement refers to
debating competence, not violence, so don't even go
there.

edit on 17-2-2011 by MajorCee because: (no reason given)

Okay, first, this is not a personal attack...
However, in my opinion, you're either very naive or you are actually with one of the alphabet soup agencies - with just a job to do (to quote the Genesis song.) That would explain why it is that you talk, but don't listen. Please, don't try to defend the indefensible!
Vicky