The "we are god" theory

reply to post by NewAgeMan


So you see God as a gender and something outside of you (above)?

How can something such as 'god' be limited to a gender or place?

I believe that that the whole "we are God" subject is part of the great deception. For those of you that are non christian please don't ridicule me. Satan wanted to be (and thought he was) above God, that was his greatest sin. he hates us, he hates God, his plans are not to just deceive us but they are to mock the Lord also. satan works on many levels. Imagine your satan (hard task), how would you go about deceiving Gods greatest creation and mocking God at the same time? By making mankind fall in the same way as satan did, pride. I am humble and in no way Godlike.

reply to post by NewAgeMan



And why do you need a savior?

Do you really also think that people would knowing ignore their own spiritual being....if they really knew if it? There are those that are not ready to consider there are things unseen within them and of the world...if they are not ready, they will not see. Its not like they 'know God IS' but then choose to ignore Thee. Once you do understand Thee is within you and of all things and all things are of Thee...there is no choice in the matter of what you want to live for.

You could consider Jesus a savior in that he led a way for us to follow....but we all must walk the path just the same.

Originally posted by LeoVirgo
reply to post by NewAgeMan

 

So you see God as a gender and something outside of you (above)?

How can something such as 'god' be limited to a gender or place?

I am saying that God is spirit, a who, or a person, and, in sharing his eternal heavenly household or kingdom God is both innerent and transcendant. These are "words" we are using the try to describe the inconcievable, and a "family framework" of mutuality and love best describes it, yes, even in terms of a parent-child relationship, where the "father" is simply the first/last cause in the native tradition creator as the first father of creation. These are approximations, to be read allegorically and are not to be taken literally.

Originally posted by LeoVirgo
reply to post by NewAgeMan

 

And why do you need a savior?

Do you really also think that people would knowing ignore their own spiritual being....if they really knew if it? There are those that are not ready to consider there are things unseen within them and of the world...if they are not ready, they will not see. Its not like they 'know God IS' but then choose to ignore Thee. Once you do understand Thee is within you and of all things and all things are of Thee...there is no choice in the matter of what you want to live for.

You could consider Jesus a savior in that he led a way for us to follow....but we all must walk the path just the same.

Because I am not Jesus and am unable to engineer my own salvation according to my own works, there is nothing I can do to perfect myself, lest I have something to boast or brag about, although in Christ and through Christ's love and eternal spirit, I am accepted, included, and encouraged not even without loving discipline, to follow and to become a work in progress on the path of progress towards perfection.

The way is a winding road, fully laden with suffering and sorrow, and I am simply grateful at the strength and the power which blazed the trail before me, to make of the burden something easy and the yoke (share responsibility in mutuality) lightened.

You misunderstand and come at me based on all that bias against what I call "Churchianity" and I don't like it any more than the next guy!

I want the real deal, the food and water that lasts and nourishes my soul, and like Peter at the water's edge, I am given the responsibility also to share the food around for our mutual "grokking" and hopefully, our mutual enjoyment.

That's it that's all.

reply to post by NorEaster


Don't mind me, your post was not addressed and was general enough to possibly have meant me. I'm not real worried about it either.

Originally posted by NicelyToasted
I believe that that the whole "we are God" subject is part of the great deception. For those of you that are non christian please don't ridicule me. Satan wanted to be (and thought he was) above God, that was his greatest sin. he hates us, he hates God, his plans are not to just deceive us but they are to mock the Lord also. satan works on many levels. Imagine your satan (hard task), how would you go about deceiving Gods greatest creation and mocking God at the same time? By making mankind fall in the same way as satan did, pride. I am humble and in no way Godlike.

No one is saying you are godlike...for you are in a body complex of the flesh. But you can not be...without the Holy Spirit filling you as a being. Nothing can be without the Holy Spirit filling it as a being.

This is not about pride. True understanding of things of Spirit does not cause one to hold themselves on high at all.

My greatest relation and experience with the Holy Spirit...began as I let go of the fear other men kept placing into me about a satan. I know there is not anything outside of God....and I know all things have a purpose. I dont let something stand in my way, of seeking God to lead me through life.

I dont cling to things like books for my relation with Thee. I cling to things that can not rust, be destroyed, or distorted.

One of the first things the Spirit showed me I had to do...was empty my cup...and within that cup, was fear I would be tricked.

Do you really think the Holy Spirit would set people up like that as they seek Thee?

The Holy Spirit is something that we can all find without any books or another man to tell us of Thee. One doesnt even have to be aware of the Holy Spirit filling their being...to be more of the nature of Spirit then of flesh. Following manifested feelings like guilt, regrets, lessons hard learned...can help one be a better person and more thoughtful to the fact that all their actions and behaviors, can influence others and in turn, can cause people to try to live a life that is more harmonic with the world around them.

By all means, Im not telling you where to place your faith. Know what is of flesh and what is of Spirit. Things like pride, greed, lust...are normal and natural effects of being in the body of flesh, thinking we are individuals, having personal feelings, tastes, attractions, and egos.

reply to post by NewAgeMan


What are you needing saved from?

Why do you seek salvation for yourself? Is this what Jesus sought?

You are eternally loved and accepted...and anything you know not...is understood and forgiven.

Your are loved without bounds friend.

We all have the same things to awaken to....but the need for the awakening is not about a reason for 'self' as individuals...but a reason for the 'whole' of the one that we are all of.

Jesus said to pick up your own cross. What does that mean to you?

What does it mean to you that the kingdom is within you?

Are we to go on and do better things?

reply to post by LeoVirgo


Satan imo, is a trick of the mind which would make of the cross of Jesus Christ as the tree of life, a morality issue of should and shouldn't ie: a switch, from the tree of life, to the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, so that those who accept it in this manner will be given over in the end to the greatest sin of all (spiritual pride) or, for anyone and everyone else, turned away from it, rejected, and left in search of another way "on their own", which again can lead inevitably to the greatest sin, or, at the very least to the rejection of the Great Work of Jesus Christ done so as to completely bind the strong man (the devil or satan, if not as a creature, then as a principal of a sickness in man, or a misunderstanding and misconception, about himself, God and the relationship intended by God to occur between God and man). Anything to spin it any way but the way of the true realization about Christ as God made flesh in spirit through Jesus, sent to redeem the world and by extension the whole of all creation.

reply to post by NewAgeMan


What is Jesus redeeming you from?

The Spirit is within us all. Jesus awoke to this and taught this and showed us the path we all need to walk.

He said...pick up your own cross.

He showed us what it means to the full degree...of what living more for the life of Spirit over the life of flesh...was all about.

And do we not learn about 'should and shouldnt' through experiences?

Would we all have true intentions in doing 'the should' if we just followed orders and did not really understand the worth of 'the should'?

Ive learned more from experiences and the feelings the experiences leave me with...then what any man has told me what I should do. It seems the 'word' is in life itself and living it, learning through 'life'.

Please know Im not debating your stance...only conversating kindly. We all learn through challenges and sharing thoughts as well as stating our own thoughts.

Originally posted by LeoVirgo
reply to post by NewAgeMan

 

What are you needing saved from?

Why do you seek salvation for yourself? Is this what Jesus sought?

You are eternally loved and accepted...and anything you know not...is understood and forgiven.

Your are loved without bounds friend.

We all have the same things to awaken to....but the need for the awakening is not about a reason for 'self' as individuals...but a reason for the 'whole' of the one that we are all of.

Jesus said to pick up your own cross. What does that mean to you?

What does it mean to you that the kingdom is within you?

Are we to go on and do better things?

I would love for many people on this thread to state what the above questions mean to you.

Originally posted by LeoVirgo
reply to post by NewAgeMan

 

What are you needing saved from?

Why do you seek salvation for yourself? Is this what Jesus sought?

You are eternally loved and accepted...and anything you know not...is understood and forgiven.

Your are loved without bounds friend.

We all have the same things to awaken to....but the need for the awakening is not about a reason for 'self' as individuals...but a reason for the 'whole' of the one that we are all of.

Jesus said to pick up your own cross. What does that mean to you?

What does it mean to you that the kingdom is within you?

Are we to go on and do better things?

I'm saved from a loss of integrity, relative to what is perfect whole and complete (which is me as a pearl in formation, and as true nature or true self).

I seek salvation not only for myself but also for everyone, as Jesus said "if I seek only my own glory, then what glory is that?"

I understand that because of the work done already ie: I've come into an inheritance by adoption that I did not work for, as a free gift of incaculable value. "You are eternally loved and accepted...and anything you know not...is understood and forgiven." I understand this, but not because you have just told me this, and you yourself understood this also according to the same intercessory grace of the Lord, which you pretend to have forgotten all about, now enjoying the benefits of the absence of separation in the spirit - but because of him who was sent for this purpose, to make this fact true (realized) and understood, without whom neither of us would have this understanding.

To pick up my cross is the willingness to suffer for the sake of love, nothing more.

The KOH within (although it could also have been "among"), this is an expression of our design as created beings with free will made in the image of God to contain nothing less than God himself in co-habitation or co-mingled spiritually, and therefore whole and complete as intended.

What else did you put to me "Are we to go on and do better things?"

Yes, most certainly and for me, without that intercessory grace and the resolution to the fundamental problem in our midst, the Great Work of Christ is the very thing which enables us to regain our sense of mirth, our humor and our joy, absent which we would be left with the indignity of the injustice, which in the final analysis is insulting, and neither can we trace back to it's original source the first cause of all evil and corruption. Why why why? we'd be left asking, without a just reply, but now, the answer can be relative to the whole damn mess "Because I love you" - which restores me to joy and humor again, and the idea of an eternal liberation from all fear, including the fear of being tricked.

If you can benefit from the removal of the veil of separation, without expressing thanks to Jesus Christ, then all the more power to you and I don't think he'd mind one bit, but for the efficacy of mutual understanding, I am simply trying to illuminate a truth about God's love and the human being as his children with whom God seeks to make his home.

And to heck with the "Churchianity" that somehow gave this whole conception a bad rap I don't care about that, but it bothers me to a degree how the consensus now, because of people's negative feelings towards religion, is that we must somehow bypass, of neccessity, the work of the cross as if being of no value, that makes me sad, for a while, until I think about what Jesus said "Let them be so one that they will know that it was You who sent me", while recognizing that the conversation about Him continues even now, even outside the confines of the stained glass church building. We'll "grok" it at some point, and then we'll be taken aback by something which in fully "grokking" simply takes the breath away.

What I hear some people saying is that they vehemently resist the very notion that anything can or needs to be done "FOR" them, and so they're left shouting at us who wish to share with them the "Good News" of the Gospel of Jesus Christ - GET YOUR DOGMA OFF MY KARMA!!! And to a degree I can understand that, and such is the paradox of the cross of Jesus Christ, sent on the one hand to wash our Karmic feet, and on the other, to leave us entirely free, even liberated, which of course opens up a whole can of worms and the generation of still more karmic debt. Perhaps his work might be thought as like that of a bomb squad sent to diffuse a Karmic cataclysm of far reaching proportions and significance..!

Hi NAM,

Thanks for replying. I'll respond to one or two things for now.....

Firstly I see we observe from different grounds.. you from within a Belief-System and me from outside them all, observing without the ingrained limitations of any Beliefs.

I will use the word 'God' in my replies as you understand the word to mean.

Originally posted by NewAgeMan
And according to the law of Karma, Hitler would have served himself up some big time suffering for many lifetimes, and surely placed himself at the very back of the line to Heaven.

Free will and choice is always available, we are not destined to be murderers, and do not make a pact with God to committ murder before we're even born, again, terrible theology.

You may feel you've got it all worked out Tayesin, but that would be absurdly arrogant on your part to think as such.

All I know is that the goodness of love doesn't mix with hatred and evil, and that God as love makes no compromises, while retaining perfect integrity and wholeness in his holiness and righteousness.

1/ Ahhh, you see. that's Karma according to Beliefs that are mostly traditional.. hence mostly Limiting.

Hitler may well have been playing out a specific role layed down by 'God' for him and as such would receive some nice compensation from 'God' for fulfilling that role.... hence going to Heaven, in the saying.

Do you see it all depends on how you look at it? And, do we have a right to second guess 'God' according to one being inside of the Belief-System?

We can look and only see glimpses, we can look at slightly different perspectives and see something else... it all comes down to where you stand to See and what blinders we wear... blinders being the Indoctrinated Belief Systems of our Culture.

2/ Agreed we are not necessarily Destined to be anything... as Destiny is a man made concept.. like every other concept used in these types of discussions.. and Destiny as such doesn't really exist.. we just Believe it does.

Sure, we Souls do arrange an Itinerary for Life which includes billions of moments in which to make choices while in life.. which seems as if we are making it up as we go... Free Will or so it seems. Each choice in each moment takes our path in a slightly different direction to what other choices would have.. so as such is not Destiny, but Choice related outcomes.

So while I made an agreement to murder your physical body in this life.. I may choose not to fulfill that agreement in the moment the means to do so arises. Also.. and probably more importantly.. nothing can happen without the full support of 'God'.. without the support.. or the means, it simply cannot happen against 'God's' will.

3/ You won't get Theology from me my friend, you will only get what I know so far to be correct based on my lifelong direct experiences of the world of man, the world of form and the world of spirit.. all of which I have travelled extensively these past 35+ years without limitations from having a blockage of Beliefs.

Arrogant is a judgement my friend. I am only sharing what I know to be true from exploring where almost all others are afraid to explore.. to stand naked in the Light of Awareness, to know and become the powerful Soul that we are while in the physical form. I don't need Dogmatic Belief-System lessons from anyone about things I already surpassed as a young child.

No offence meant in those words either... just trying to offer you a glimpse into my current understandings and how I came to them.

Originally posted by NewAgeMan
But the neutral God hypothesis, which seeks as much to experience acts of rape and murder as much as acts of love, that's abhorent, ungodly, and unjust, as well as absurd, please don't defend that view just because it's the "model" you'd previously adopted.

Thinking too small again friend.. this 'God' is the 'God' of this Universe.. it is the Universe and everything within that.. so looking at everything from ONLY a human-on-earth-perspective is extremely limiting to say the least.

It is what causes us to give 'God' HUMAN behaviours, what causes us to Believe we know better than something Omnipotent, something we could hardly understand from our limited little view on Reality.. and here we are right here having things said about it that humans Believe it Should.

It's abhorent to you and many others.. and me in the sense that I would not choose those actions because of the energetic Feel of it and the baggage in my emotional centres I would have to deal with. But in the sorts of Awareness LEvels far removed from tiny little human thinking.. we see Duality is only a Concept in play here.. part of the structure for this Earth Experience and certainly not anything valid beyond the lower SOul levels of Awareness beyond the astral..

I haven't "adopted" this model, it is the current understanding from all those years of exploration into my own higher levels of Awareness, into Soul levels and higher into Over-Soul levels of Awareness. The places 99% of humans never venture through Belief and Fear that is enforced by the Comforting Belief-System.

Lastly.. I wholeheartedly agree with you that working from a position of Love... as in Unconditional Love, is the more effective way.. it is something done by choosing it in each moment. And it is more effective because the energetic Feel of it is uplifting and contagious.. hence why we choose it even when shining light into our own darkness in order to become Whole.

reply to post by NewAgeMan

which you pretend to have forgotten all about, now enjoying the benefits of the absence of separation in the spirit

I have not forgotten anything...and I do not enjoy any benefits of the absence of separation in Spirit. The Spirit is within me...and this only humbles me and helps me understand I am a part of a whole.

I have no free ride...I have to do the work just as Jesus did. There would be no worth in a free ride. We are meant to be here, its by no mistake. All is as it should be...and I cast no blame for the way it all is. I embrace it and seek my way through it.

Jesus taught me, we are equal. All in Spirit, we are a whole. He helped me see his life as 'will to live for things of Spirit' and that its not easy. Ways of flesh are tempting and cause us many illusions of what we really are. I am thankful for great teachers that evolved in Spirit and showed us we can all live for things of Spirit over things of flesh.

I hold no man above another...no matter how good their works were. I hold no man below another, no matter how far on the path that is not they have walked.

Picking up my own cross...caused me to walk through the path Jesus walked and tested my own being as to what I was capable of through the nature of Spirit within me and understanding the nature of Spirit over the nature of flesh.

To not fall for the idea that this life is the one to live for....is where I pick up my own cross and offer myself to the will of Spirit and the nature of Thee.

We learn from our wrongs, and they have a purpose for us to learn through trial and errors. There are many things life throws at us to weigh and measure us....but in the end...all will find the way to awaken to their inner nature of Spirit. None will be lost for all are of Thee.

Just sharing..and thanks for offering your thoughts back on my questions. Please know, I am only sharing and asking for sharing in return because I think its a good thing that we offer each other things to think critically about.

All I know is that I learned more about God...without the books and other men telling me of things. I see that the Spirit can and could always be found, in life itself. Through the very design of the world and life....I found the greatest gems untouched and undistorted. Then I was able to go back to the book....and see them there also, but in between the lines.

I dont think all the answers were ever just given to us to be placed in a book...for personal seeking with a empty cup for me, was very important for the greatest understandings.

My best to you
LV

reply to post by Tayesin

Lastly.. I wholeheartedly agree with you that working from a position of Love... as in Unconditional Love, is the more effective way.. it is something done by choosing it in each moment. And it is more effective because the energetic Feel of it is uplifting and contagious.. hence why we choose it even when shining light into our own darkness in order to become Whole.

I would like to further touch on what you said here...because here you show a gem that can be found and understood without a book or another man telling us of it. It can be found, in life itself, by just paying attention as we grow and mature and be more aware to the 'feelings' actions birth in us.

Hence is why I always say, the true gems of life, do not have to be told to us by another man or through a book...but are within the experience of life itself. These are gems that are meeting/common grounds of all people, of believers and non believers, of logical thinkers and of mystics and skeptics....gems that can be understood to have worth to us as a whole, as a species, that will benefit the world as a whole and are things all people can have understanding of.

This has to be the most arrogant ego filled generations of all times, If we are gods then we are the most powerful entities in this universe? With the little knowledge we know about this world we live in we actually have the nerves to now call ourselves god?.....wtfup!

You are nothing but a human being who eats, sleeps, gets sick, reproduces, dies like everyone else. Nothing special here......someone who fears death and is unable to answer some of the simplest questions on life. Someone who doubts what awaits him after death, Someone who's rights and freedom will be soon taken away from them. You fear like everyone else, You sin like everyone else, You can't even save yourself from the system, Yet you call yourself god. Even the ancients with all their knowledge were not dumb enough to worship themselves, They all believed in greater entities.

This just seems as bad as the Jews calling themselves the chosen people. There are no chosen people we are all equal.

reply to post by NewAgeMan


"Behold I make all things new!"

reply to post by LeoVirgo

I've heard it said, here at ATS of all places, that the Christ-mind is like an emptied Buddha Bowl first filled with Hermes.

Jesus and his word and works could then also be understood in an alchemical frame of reference sent from God in spirit, for the regeneration of the human being, and for our liberation, set free for the sake of freedom to freely love as we are loved.

P.S. Why can't these discussions occur in "Philosophy, Psychology and Metaphysics" I don't understand..

reply to post by NorEaster

Damn, I'd love to see just one of you mahatmas string together a cogent argument supporting any of this stuff that's based on logic or verified empirical evidence.

I have to confess that I enjoy reading your posts, even though you probably consider me one of those "mahatmas". You say it like you see it, and I can really respect that.

In my opinion, it is essential to apply a rational and critical eye to any spiritual theories and teachings. Discernement is pivotal in assessing the merits of a particular path, lest the "sales pitch" leads you to trade your reason for basketful a of hollow comfort.