Muslims want children excused from music, mixed phys-ed classes

reply to post by destination now


Wow... that's so pathetic on so many levels. I say befriend a muslim and you hand me a terrorist.

First I was talking about Canada... not the U.K...

So I'm guessing you aren't totally oppossed to the camp idea eh? (and yes I say eh.)

Instead of all of the stupid straw man arguements here and the idiocy of the validity of the classes, the fact remains, they went there..................follow the rules or leave. Enough coddling these idiiots in the name of political correctness.............being a bigot works both ways and I've gotta say there are enough muslim bigots being imported world wide..............they can get over it and adjust or go back where they belong .

Originally posted by SmedleyBurlap
reply to post by destination now

 

This is really one of the most childish responses on this thread? Did you miss this one?

Love us or leave us!

Or this one?

If they don't like what we have here in America, they can get the *snip* out.

Or this one?

if you don't like it then don't move.

Or this one?

If they cannot live in Canada due to their religion then there are plenty of Muslim countries where they can take their highly valuable skills.

But, none of them disagreed with you, so you had no reason to criticize them, did you.

Yes, my family has been here for centuries. My argument is just as legitimate as theirs, but has greater credibility. They want the most recent immigrants evicted or assimilated by force - we want the last few centuries of immigrants to be evicted or assimilated by force. I demand that they suit my cultural norms.

Nor did I condone anything they said either...I am not going to be held account for other people's words. And no one is trying to assimilate anyone by force, just telling them that music and PE are on the curriculum

reply to post by mobiusmale


The point of public schools is the fair treatment of all children. Aside from physical differences: gender or a handicap of some sort...all children are expected to perform the same and participate in the same events. The parents can choose to pull the kid out of school if they feel like it...with the consequence of that going to a sick day.

If muslim kids dont have to take a class they dont like...why cant Christian kids or anyone else? And its not like these classes are forcing them to believe something.

Take World Religions. It is a study of various religions, their beliefs, history, and culture...and is not imposing these beliefs upon the students. It does require students to think critically when arguing for or against something...and if Muslims are incapable of that...then they should fail, NOT BE COMPENSATED.

My teacher slightly berated a girl because she stated her beliefs and when a student asked for her reasoning she responded "Because thats what I think" Circular arguments...the lesson was not to turn her away from Christianity but to actually think about why she believes things. If that is considered harmful...it makes you question the validity of the belief systems.

reply to post by destination now


Many people in this thread said exactly that. I quoted at least five of them. Many more said that they should be compelled to take the same cirriculum as everybody else. I am responding to them. If they don't like MY vision of the country and culture, then they can leave as well.

Originally posted by doctor j and inmate c5779
I don`t see any problem with their request... If I was the PM of canada, I`d simply have them deported to a country ruled by a Muslim dictator. Then things like p.e. and music will be outlawed, so, problem solved right? Oh but they want to enjoy all the other freedoms but they just wanna pick and choose and have the entire country make special rules for them regarding something as basic and at the core of western culture as p.e. and music? I`d say that`s fine, too, but... They should just home school their kids like any other person who doesn`t like what public schools have to offer.

 

Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com

 

Never mind the fact that even in Saudi, there are compounds where non-Muslims can go about their 'Western' business away from the mullahs. Never mind the fact that in every single Muslims country, you will find mixed-gender British or American or whatever schools that cater to the cultural norms and values of foreigners. What if it was a fundamentalist Catholic that wanted to be excused from these classes? Deport him to the Vatican? Since when was P.E. at the core of western culture? And if thats the case, since when was it not at the core of what you'd define as non-western/Muslim culture? Muslim schools also teach P.E., these parents probably just didn't like the idea of mixed P.E. or something - I went to a British school and even they segregated the boys and girls during P.E. These threads are oozing with hate and irrationality, its unbelievable. You talk about picking and choosing, yet all you guys are doing is picking and choosing facts way out of context, without any sort of evidence, simply to reinforce nonsensical arguments. For example, its highly likely that the 'dozens' of Muslim families mentioned have just arrived in the country, probably from somewhere like Saudi or Libya (which are actually anomalies in the Muslim world) and are reeling from the effects of culture shock. Once again, they didnt demand a change of curriculum, simply that their children be excused from these classes. Integration takes time, and if Canadians have a more accurate sense of morality than everyone else they why wont the school simply allow them to skip class? Its no skin off anyones back.

In summation, if you want to state an opinion on something, you should have a basic understanding of it.

Originally posted by adifferentbreed
follow the rules or leave.

They are following the rules.

How many more times ?

These parents followed the rules and made a request to the school authorities to have their children excused from certain classes; it is now down to the school authorities to deal with.


How about Americans who make complaints about things such as TSA pat-downs ? What's your view on them ?

''Follow the rules or leave ?''

Originally posted by nastyj

i see what you did there.lots of unsubstantiated blanket statements. guess it makes you feel good writing this kind of cliche BS. BS being the the key word here. at least you have a huge company- people who love talking from atop their high horse about matters way above their head. in this day and age there`s such wealth of quality music that it would make Mozart feel jealous. (he himself was popular because he wrote a lot of simple pop stuff.) and yeah much of it being produced by "today`s kids"- people 100% inferior to your generation. if you cant see beyond lady Gaga in modern music then that`s, likely, the type of music you listened to "when you were young and the grass was greener", the likes of Madonna i guess. music from any time period isnt all the same. many love citing AC/DC from the past as the best, but there were much better bands- the likes of Led Zeppelin. and they were nothing compared to the bands like Rush. later came absolute mindf*cks like Dream Theater. in short music never stopped getting better. today there are so many bands who are expanding beyond Rush`s complexity,technicality and creativity. so much more can be said about modern music and music in general, but i am feeling lazy, besides the Game is getting ready to come over. gotta rush to the bar.

just get a taste of today`s music (something way beyond Led Zeppelin and Metallica, something they could never produce) :

Animals As Leaders- CAFO
Giraffes?Girraffes!- When Catholic Girls
Scale The Summit- Dunes

reply to post by Sherlock Holmes


Wow, simple minded replies are the norm when dealing with apologists I guess. What in the hell does a child taking a class have to do with violating someone physically? I know you have nothing but straws to grasp at, but try something a little more representative and equal. Plenty of people are not allowed to opt out of classes even for religious reasons, unless they happen to be a part of these professional victims. They moved there, it's the schools mandatory classes..............either comply or fail, but this "I'm special" b.s. needs to quit.

I would hope these Muslim parents would ask their children personally and first hand: "Would you like to try something different?" It's almost as if the parents ALWAYS know best. Personally, I see and hear how children do know what they want and are demanding if they can't get what they want. Muslim parents should remember their children have minds of their own and may one day choose to be free to explore strange new worlds. It's the 21st century for crying out loud! Let them play and hear music and mix in with the opposite genders!

Why don't Muslims try respecting their own women and treat them as equals, before expecting the rest of the world to cater to their beliefs?

How hypocritical is it to want to be treated as equals on other countries, yet they kill, degrade, torture, etc., their own women? Maybe public opinion would change if the more of the large percentage of "well-intensioned" Muslims spoke up against the extremists. My biggest problem with Islam as a whole is that doesn't appear to be a tolerant or accepting of othe values, and all you have to do is look at countries where Islam is the main religion. Then they move to another country and want others to be tolerant and accepting of their ways? Take a look in the mirror! Don't throw stones in a glass house.

Originally posted by MysticPearl
Why don't Muslims try respecting their own women and treat them as equals, before expecting the rest of the world to cater to their beliefs?

How hypocritical is it to want to be treated as equals on other countries, yet they kill, degrade, torture, etc., their own women? Maybe public opinion would change if the more of the large percentage of "well-intensioned" Muslims spoke up against the extremists. My biggest problem with Islam as a whole is that doesn't appear to be a tolerant or accepting of othe values, and all you have to do is look at countries where Islam is the main religion. Then they move to another country and want others to be tolerant and accepting of their ways? Take a look in the mirror! Don't throw stones in a glass house.

There's something I've always wanted to know, from someone with a load of first hand experience - is it really true that ignorance is bliss? Everyone else on that side of the fence, feel free to answer. I know a lot more about Islam most the people here, or even on this entire forum, so at least read my posts before you want to go spewing nonsense.

Originally posted by arollingstone

Originally posted by MysticPearl
Why don't Muslims try respecting their own women and treat them as equals, before expecting the rest of the world to cater to their beliefs?

How hypocritical is it to want to be treated as equals on other countries, yet they kill, degrade, torture, etc., their own women? Maybe public opinion would change if the more of the large percentage of "well-intensioned" Muslims spoke up against the extremists. My biggest problem with Islam as a whole is that doesn't appear to be a tolerant or accepting of othe values, and all you have to do is look at countries where Islam is the main religion. Then they move to another country and want others to be tolerant and accepting of their ways? Take a look in the mirror! Don't throw stones in a glass house.

There's something I've always wanted to know, from someone with a load of first hand experience - is it really true that ignorance is bliss? Everyone else on that side of the fence, feel free to answer. I know a lot more about Islam most the people here, or even on this entire forum, so at least read my posts before you want to go spewing nonsense.

Your understanding of Islam has nothing to do with the perception of Islam,or the negative affects it has on society. I couldn't care less if you get down on your knee's and bow to Allah 20 times a day. That's not an excuse for the way Muslims treat their women every day. That't not an excuse for Muslim fathers killing their daughters for disgracing their families for various rediculous reasons.

Funny how you think it's all nonsense, yet this crap is in the news every day. So please, go ahead and defend redical islam, because that's is a part of islam, and I assume you'll also defend murderers and wife beaters.

Music?

Originally posted by MysticPearl

Originally posted by arollingstone

Originally posted by MysticPearl
Why don't Muslims try respecting their own women and treat them as equals, before expecting the rest of the world to cater to their beliefs?

How hypocritical is it to want to be treated as equals on other countries, yet they kill, degrade, torture, etc., their own women? Maybe public opinion would change if the more of the large percentage of "well-intensioned" Muslims spoke up against the extremists. My biggest problem with Islam as a whole is that doesn't appear to be a tolerant or accepting of othe values, and all you have to do is look at countries where Islam is the main religion. Then they move to another country and want others to be tolerant and accepting of their ways? Take a look in the mirror! Don't throw stones in a glass house.

There's something I've always wanted to know, from someone with a load of first hand experience - is it really true that ignorance is bliss? Everyone else on that side of the fence, feel free to answer. I know a lot more about Islam most the people here, or even on this entire forum, so at least read my posts before you want to go spewing nonsense.

Your understanding of Islam has nothing to do with the perception of Islam,or the negative affects it has on society. I couldn't care less if you get down on your knee's and bow to Allah 20 times a day. That's not an excuse for the way Muslims treat their women every day. That't not an excuse for Muslim fathers killing their daughters for disgracing their families for various rediculous reasons.

Funny how you think it's all nonsense, yet this crap is in the news every day. So please, go ahead and defend redical islam, because that's is a part of islam, and I assume you'll also defend murderers and wife beaters.

My understanding of Islam has nothing to do with the perception of Islam? Thats a really strange statement. How is your perception valid if you don't know any facts or history about the religion? You sound like a 14 year old - I don't get on my knees and bow to Allah 20 times a day. Neither do I pray 5 times a day, which is what the religion actually dictates. I never even said that I was a Muslim. Where have you ever found evidence that Muslim generally treat their women badly? As I already mentioned, countries like Saudi and Yemen are anomalies in the Muslim world. The cases you read or heard about on the grape vine are probably just as frequent or sporadic as those in the Western world. Another factual error on your behalf -the introduction of Islam actually gave rise to the concept of women's rights in the region. No, I don't defend radical Islam, which is not a part of Islam, as I've already mentioned - I at least read your post before replying. That's like saying that Nationalism and Hitler's radical form of National Socialism are the same thing or that all Christians are murderers because they started some of the Crusades. Neither would I defend murderers or wife beaters and don't know why you would 'assume' that from what I've already written. You're off to a terrible start if you're trying to look intellectual. Go to the FOX news forums if all you want to do is regurgitate nonsense like that.

Edit: That 'stuff' actually is not on the news every day either, and I challenge you to prove otherwise. Additionally, the whole murdering daughters is not a Muslim concept - I know it happened a lot in China during the heavy one child policy days, it also happens a fair bit in India. I never hear about fathers murdering daughters in the news, and I watch SKY, BBC, FOX, Al Jazeera - you name it.

Originally posted by Kalithe
reply to post by destination now

 

Wow... that's so pathetic on so many levels. I say befriend a muslim and you hand me a terrorist.

First I was talking about Canada... not the U.K...

So I'm guessing you aren't totally oppossed to the camp idea eh? (and yes I say eh.)

No, I was responding to your incredible suggestion that muslims are not obese, so I showed you a picture of a famous one...

I do have muslim friends, so do not attempt to judge me when you don't know me!

Why would it make a difference whether in Canda or the UK in terms of befriending muslims?

And what does "oppossed to the camp idea eh? (and yes I say eh)" (sic) actually mean?

Originally posted by arollingstone

Originally posted by MysticPearl

Originally posted by arollingstone

Originally posted by MysticPearl
Why don't Muslims try respecting their own women and treat them as equals, before expecting the rest of the world to cater to their beliefs?

How hypocritical is it to want to be treated as equals on other countries, yet they kill, degrade, torture, etc., their own women? Maybe public opinion would change if the more of the large percentage of "well-intensioned" Muslims spoke up against the extremists. My biggest problem with Islam as a whole is that doesn't appear to be a tolerant or accepting of othe values, and all you have to do is look at countries where Islam is the main religion. Then they move to another country and want others to be tolerant and accepting of their ways? Take a look in the mirror! Don't throw stones in a glass house.

There's something I've always wanted to know, from someone with a load of first hand experience - is it really true that ignorance is bliss? Everyone else on that side of the fence, feel free to answer. I know a lot more about Islam most the people here, or even on this entire forum, so at least read my posts before you want to go spewing nonsense.

Your understanding of Islam has nothing to do with the perception of Islam,or the negative affects it has on society. I couldn't care less if you get down on your knee's and bow to Allah 20 times a day. That's not an excuse for the way Muslims treat their women every day. That't not an excuse for Muslim fathers killing their daughters for disgracing their families for various rediculous reasons.

Funny how you think it's all nonsense, yet this crap is in the news every day. So please, go ahead and defend redical islam, because that's is a part of islam, and I assume you'll also defend murderers and wife beaters.

My understanding of Islam has nothing to do with the perception of Islam? Thats a really strange statement. How is your perception valid if you don't know any facts or history about the religion? You sound like a 14 year old - I don't get on my knees and bow to Allah 20 times a day. Neither do I pray 5 times a day, which is what the religion actually dictates. I never even said that I was a Muslim. Where have you ever found evidence that Muslim generally treat their women badly? As I already mentioned, countries like Saudi and Yemen are anomalies in the Muslim world. The cases you read or heard about on the grape vine are probably just as frequent or sporadic as those in the Western world. Another factual error on your behalf -the introduction of Islam actually gave rise to the concept of women's rights in the region. No, I don't defend radical Islam, which is not a part of Islam, as I've already mentioned - I at least read your post before replying. That's like saying that Nationalism and Hitler's radical form of National Socialism are the same thing or that all Christians are murderers because they started some of the Crusades. Neither would I defend murderers or wife beaters and don't know why you would 'assume' that from what I've already written. You're off to a terrible start if you're trying to look intellectual. Go to the FOX news forums if all you want to do is regurgitate nonsense like that.

Edit: That 'stuff' actually is not on the news every day either, and I challenge you to prove otherwise. Additionally, the whole murdering daughters is not a Muslim concept - I know it happened a lot in China during the heavy one child policy days, it also happens a fair bit in India. I never hear about fathers murdering daughters in the news, and I watch SKY, BBC, FOX, Al Jazeera - you name it.

edit on 6-2-2011 by arollingstone because: (no reason given)

First off, I didn't reply to you originally. Where did you get that from? Trouble reading I suspect? Secondly, what makes you think I don't know anything about the facts or history of the religion? Because I didn't summarize my entire understanding of the religion in a response to you? That's a rediculous assumption on your part.Your sitting their assuming you know what I do or do not know, when I only registered a couple hourse ago?

Take a deep breath, calm down, a focus your attention on the words I typed, not the words your putting in my mouth. Pretty arrogant of you to think I was responding to you, and you only, when I didn't quote you or reply to you originally.

And where have I found evidence of Muslims treating women badly? Lol. Have you been living under a rock? You can answer that yourself if you open your eyes a little. Would you also want examples of Christians not being tolerant, or Catholics taking advantage of alter boys?

Originally posted by SmedleyBurlap
reply to post by destination now

 

Many people in this thread said exactly that. I quoted at least five of them. Many more said that they should be compelled to take the same cirriculum as everybody else. I am responding to them. If they don't like MY vision of the country and culture, then they can leave as well.

Where did I deny that anybody said those things? And yes, the majority do believe that all kids in the state education system should have to follow a universal curriculum with no exemptions, except on medical grounds, that is what the debate is about. But now, in a further pique of hypocrisy, you say that you are responding to their opinions by stating that as they don't agree with YOUR vision of culture and country that you think they should leave the country....bigotry at it's finest...

And you are absolutely no different to anyone else on the thread then...

Originally posted by MysticPearl

Originally posted by arollingstone

Originally posted by MysticPearl

Originally posted by arollingstone

Originally posted by MysticPearl
Why don't Muslims try respecting their own women and treat them as equals, before expecting the rest of the world to cater to their beliefs?

How hypocritical is it to want to be treated as equals on other countries, yet they kill, degrade, torture, etc., their own women? Maybe public opinion would change if the more of the large percentage of "well-intensioned" Muslims spoke up against the extremists. My biggest problem with Islam as a whole is that doesn't appear to be a tolerant or accepting of othe values, and all you have to do is look at countries where Islam is the main religion. Then they move to another country and want others to be tolerant and accepting of their ways? Take a look in the mirror! Don't throw stones in a glass house.

There's something I've always wanted to know, from someone with a load of first hand experience - is it really true that ignorance is bliss? Everyone else on that side of the fence, feel free to answer. I know a lot more about Islam most the people here, or even on this entire forum, so at least read my posts before you want to go spewing nonsense.

Your understanding of Islam has nothing to do with the perception of Islam,or the negative affects it has on society. I couldn't care less if you get down on your knee's and bow to Allah 20 times a day. That's not an excuse for the way Muslims treat their women every day. That't not an excuse for Muslim fathers killing their daughters for disgracing their families for various rediculous reasons.

Funny how you think it's all nonsense, yet this crap is in the news every day. So please, go ahead and defend redical islam, because that's is a part of islam, and I assume you'll also defend murderers and wife beaters.

My understanding of Islam has nothing to do with the perception of Islam? Thats a really strange statement. How is your perception valid if you don't know any facts or history about the religion? You sound like a 14 year old - I don't get on my knees and bow to Allah 20 times a day. Neither do I pray 5 times a day, which is what the religion actually dictates. I never even said that I was a Muslim. Where have you ever found evidence that Muslim generally treat their women badly? As I already mentioned, countries like Saudi and Yemen are anomalies in the Muslim world. The cases you read or heard about on the grape vine are probably just as frequent or sporadic as those in the Western world. Another factual error on your behalf -the introduction of Islam actually gave rise to the concept of women's rights in the region. No, I don't defend radical Islam, which is not a part of Islam, as I've already mentioned - I at least read your post before replying. That's like saying that Nationalism and Hitler's radical form of National Socialism are the same thing or that all Christians are murderers because they started some of the Crusades. Neither would I defend murderers or wife beaters and don't know why you would 'assume' that from what I've already written. You're off to a terrible start if you're trying to look intellectual. Go to the FOX news forums if all you want to do is regurgitate nonsense like that.

Edit: That 'stuff' actually is not on the news every day either, and I challenge you to prove otherwise. Additionally, the whole murdering daughters is not a Muslim concept - I know it happened a lot in China during the heavy one child policy days, it also happens a fair bit in India. I never hear about fathers murdering daughters in the news, and I watch SKY, BBC, FOX, Al Jazeera - you name it.

edit on 6-2-2011 by arollingstone because: (no reason given)

First off, I didn't reply to you originally. Where did you get that from? Trouble reading I suspect? Secondly, what makes you think I don't know anything about the facts or history of the religion? Because I didn't summarize my entire understanding of the religion in a response to you? That's a rediculous assumption on your part.Your sitting their assuming you know what I do or do not know, when I only registered a couple hourse ago?

Take a deep breath, calm down, a focus your attention on the words I typed, not the words your putting in my mouth. Pretty arrogant of you to think I was responding to you, and you only, when I didn't quote you or reply to you originally.

And where have I found evidence of Muslims treating women badly? Lol. Have you been living under a rock? You can answer that yourself if you open your eyes a little. Would you also want examples of Christians not being tolerant, or Catholics taking advantage of alter boys?

Haha I literally quoted you quoting me, no arrogant assumptions there! My challenge for you to present evidence and facts still remains, you clearly lack any sort of understanding of life in Muslim countries or Muslim culture, or the rules of the religion - that's no assumption, thats what you've presented yourself. Lol take a deep breath and calm down and focus on the words you typed? Who said I was annoyed? If anything, I find your ramblings laughable - and every point I made was a reponse to the 'words you typed', I don't put words in other people's mouths because I'm not so insecure that I have to win arguments with individuals, and my debate stands on its own without such devices. I didn't say no Muslims treat women badly at all, I said the same amount of Muslims beat their wives than those in the West. I've lived in both Muslim and non-Muslim countries, I have first hand experience - I don't just listen to uninformed ramblings. Anyway I cant be bothered having a nitpicking argument with someone who is driven more by their ego than by rationality, and I cant be bothered with this thread anymore. I'm sure loads more will crop up full of the same nonsense.

Point is, Islamic values are pretty similar to those of Judaism or Christianity. And in my opinion (though not exclusively my opinion), all humans are the same, all of earth belongs to all or it belongs to no one, look inside yourself for the truth for only there will you find it, long live unconditional love.

Originally posted by eletheia
reply to post by inforeal

 

Issues arising from other races and religions would not occur if they respected the rules

and laws of the country they were visiting or intending to live in. Just as i pointed out in an

earlier post when families visit others the visitor RESPECTS the visited........

I have been in Bhuddist countries, as a sign of RESPECT I made sure to keep my head below the home satatue. It wasn't real easy for me being 6 feet tall but I managed. The point is, I held respect for the culture I was in.

Star for your post, very to the point.