Video Showing Houston Cops Beating Teen Finally Released

Originally posted by TKDRL
reply to post by Xcathdra

 

Yeah but there is a huge difference between getting arrested, and getting beaten and kicked and stomped. Bogus charges of resisting arrest and assaulting a police officer for trying to block yourself during a beaten are handed out. With that in mind, I am probably more likely to actively defend myself against an attack by an cop, rather than laying there and trying to block myself, then getting charged as if I did knock the cop out.

While I understand your argument and where you are coming from, my point is what occured in the video is not the norm. Resisting an arrest believe it or not is as simple as me saying

"turn around and place your hands behind your back. I am placing you under arrest for Driving While Intoxicated."

if the person fails to comply with that command, then technically they are resisting arrest. People have this mind set, again from tv, that resisting an arrest means actively resisting (fighting) which is not the case. If I go to pull a car over for a traffic violation, and that person decides he does not want to stop (hes not drunk, no criminal history, no warrents etc) then the person can be charged with resisting arrest by fleeing. If during that flight he places others in immediate danger of death or injury, then its felony resisting arrest by fleeing with enhancements.

Assault on an officer is essentially (varies from state to state) any unwanted physical contact. Its becoming increasingly difficult to explain how its "suppose" to work. The laws in place that protect law enforcement and our actions are their with the expectation we do our jobs like we are suppose to. They are designed to protect law enforement from people who blatantly disregard the law and make an effort to injure the cop or others present.

Its human nature to defend against an attack, hence the fight or flight reponse we have built into us. This must be taken into account when we deal with people for the reason that when we intentionally take actions that "escalate" a situation, we are making the problem worse and inviting actions that might not have occured if we kept our emootions in check.

I am not saying all cops act innapropriately, its going to be a case by case basis.

I always said that people that are trained to be in a position of power such as the police should be reprimanded two folds for acting as they did in that video. That one was pretty mild compared to some other vids I've seen. And if you happend to read this and you're a police officer and you are deffending those so called law enforcement officers than you should have you badge removes as well. There is no excuse for acting as they did. You are trained "profess-anals" You should know better.

Cop publicly exicutes handcuffed man

Cop tacles innocent into coma

Two cops beating up a guy

We get pushed, we push back

I just whanna say that I don't approve of violent behavier but everybody has to draw the line somewere.

I keep saying it and I will say it yet again. [color=#FF0000]WE NEED CIVILIAN REVIEW BOARDS!! The police are incapable of policing themselves. Review boards should work like jury duty. You are called and expected to serve when your turn comes up. Ordinary citizens doing the work, not somebody with community standing who has a stake in letting the criminal cops off the hook.

It is my fervent hope that every one of these disgusting pigs gets street justice.
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/959a8d5188fa.gif[/atsimg]

Originally posted by DevilDog0311
Just a slap on the wrist, and they go back to work...

They're not the only ones...

Jurors deliberated less than three hours before reaching the verdict. Holley was sentenced to probation until his 18th birthday.

I'm not one to defend the cops, my post history here will make that clear. But there's a point everyone is missing here. This wasn't a 70 year old grandma, Chad Holley has proven himself to be a genuine threat to society. These are the types of kids that graduate to invading occupied homes, and people start dying.

With that said, I'll add that the cops were certainly not right, and my personal opinion is that they all ought to be living in a penitentiary for the next 5 to 10 years. My issue, is that Chad Holley ought to be right there with them. People at ATS always get so riled up about abusive LEO's getting "slaps on the wrist", that they simply ignore the fact that often times, violent criminals that pose threats to you, me, our families and the rest of society, get the same wrist-slap treatment. Not to mention, I'm sure once all of the criminal deliberations are over, young Mr. Holley will bring forth a civil action, and ensure a standard of living far superior to mine as a result. The fact that this is how it goes so much of the time likely has a significant role in why the officers allowed their emotions to prevent them from doing their jobs. One of the infinite reasons I could never be a LEO, is that it wouldn't take long for me to snap watching criminals walk while judges validate their parking.

Ok, end rant, I just don't want any more "poor kid" attitude, because it's BS.

Originally posted by XLR8R
I always said that people that are trained to be in a position of power such as the police should be reprimanded two folds for acting as they did in that video. That one was pretty mild compared to some other vids I've seen. And if you happend to read this and you're a police officer and you are deffending those so called law enforcement officers than you should have you badge removes as well. There is no excuse for acting as they did. You are trained "profess-anals" You should know better.

Its professionals thank you.

Originally posted by XLR8R
Cop publicly exicutes handcuffed man

Officer was charged, tried and convicted under California Law. The Federal Government is in the process of charging him with the same crimes under Federal Law (does not violate double standard).

Originally posted by XLR8R
Cop tacles innocent into coma

Police chased the wrong person, which is tragic. However, the guy for some reason ran from the police. Hindsight being 20/20 is one thing. If you were responding to that call, saw a person matching the description, attempt to make contact and the person runs, chances are the thought process is this is one of the guys we are looking for. As far as pushing the guy, it was done in a manner to end the pursuit and not intentionally cause a brain injury from the guy hitting the wall.

Context is king here.

Originally posted by XLR8R
Two cops beating up a guy

You can see in the video the guy has one hand cuff on and is refusing verbal commands. A handcuff is just as deadly as a gun when used against a person head. 2 Officers on top of this guy and they are both having issues getting his hands under control. Please read the additional information present as to the officers actions.

Originally posted by XLR8R
Cop beates up woman in cell

This link takes you to the same link above.

Originally posted by XLR8R
We get pushed, we push back

This incident occurd in Austrailia, not the US.

Originally posted by XLR8R
I just whanna say that I don't approve of violent behavier but everybody has to draw the line somewere.

edit on 4-2-2011 by XLR8R because: (no reason given)

While I somewhat agree with what you are saying, some of the incidents linked are not the entire story at all. My argument in the area of Police brutality has always been that to untrained people, officers action come across as police brutality, when in actuality its not.

I am not defending the officers in the OP video. or any other blatant case of police brutality. However, as you stated, where does one draw a line?

If I tell a person they are under arrest, and instead of complying decide to fight me, am I guilty of Police brutality? Not every encounter is going to be as black and white as some people make it out to be. The reason for this again goes back to a misunderstanding of how laws work, and how your rights work in different situations.

I will point out that in almost all cases where people are claiming police brutality, the interaction of law enforcement was for a reason. Cops did not just randomly stop people and decide to beat them down. In the videos cited above, which only show the actual fighting, it ignores the circumstances of their involvement, including what led up to the physical contact in the first place.

As I said, I am not defending blatant abuse of authoeirty by the police. I am just pointing out how misunderstanding of laws and rights coupled with video that is not placed in proper context can be problematic. People see these videos, dont do the research, and just assume that any contact they have with police will result in the above.

Originally posted by groingrinder
I keep saying it and I will say it yet again. [color=#FF0000]WE NEED CIVILIAN REVIEW BOARDS!! The police are incapable of policing themselves. Review boards should work like jury duty. You are called and expected to serve when your turn comes up. Ordinary citizens doing the work, not somebody with community standing who has a stake in letting the criminal cops off the hook.

It is my fervent hope that every one of these disgusting pigs gets street justice.
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/959a8d5188fa.gif[/atsimg]

Would you be ok with a person who has nothing do do with your line of work sit in judgment over your actions? Would you be ok with a person who has a personal bias sitting in judgment over your actions?

While I have no issues with review boards, randomly grabbing people to review actions would be no different than randomly grabbing a person off the street to serve as a lawyer for another person.

I guess I wasn't quick enough. The video from link in the OP is gone now. Didn't take long to scrub it. We need to archive these things so they don't vanish forever.

Ive said it over and over again. The local police departments have hired former soldiers (war veterans preferably) and are training the non-war vets to use the same tactics that were/are being used in Iraq and Afghanistan.

Specifically that everyone is a threat, regardless of age, sex or condition.
Our government no longer trusts its own citizens, their paranoia is out of control and completely unjustified.

Everyone is guilty until they are able to prove otherwise in court. Which they hope wont happen since the Prison system is also a corporation.

Shoot first, especially if they have a cell phone or camera with an extended lens (remember all the journalists killed because they had 12 inch long RPG's (telephoto lenses) and US citizens shot because they were holding cell phones or garden hoses with a spray nozzle?)

Pull people over at random, they may have a roach in the ashtray which may allow them to seize their vehicle to further fund the corporation that law enforcement has become.

Practice your tasing skills on children and senior citizens, since they are no threat to your safety.

Either the Federal Govt is personally involved in training LE officers now or they have recruited former soldiers who trained other soldiers in the Middle East (or both) either way, the tactics are far to similar to ignore.

Ive always hated to use the "Nazi" analogy because it is so over used.
So Ill just say this, we are fast becoming everything that Cold War America "seemingly" stood against when talking about the "Evil Empire"

Another disgusting slew of criminality from the world's largest gang of thugs. And yet another cover-up by those who are charged with looking out for our best interests.

What a shame.

Addendum to my last post:

Anyone still unclear as to why the cops are starting to haul people off for filming them?

Originally posted by redgy
not justifying the actions of police in any way, but the lad was a criminal who also more than knowingly ran from an arrest being made towards him.
just wondering how most homeowners would have dealt with this person if caught stealing in their home beforehand.

when police give warning to stop or they will shoot, there is always consequences to be had if the assailent keeps on running. he got off lightly in this case.

If you're not trying to justify the actions of the police then what are you trying to do? Police has never the right to act as judge, jury and excecutioner. Even if the goon was the most hardened criminal. Even if he had shot a cop, beaten a grandma or Bin Laden himself. He is a suspect and the police only have one job. Catch him. Even after a court conviction police still do not have the right to dispence justice.

Originally posted by whitewave
I guess I wasn't quick enough. The video from link in the OP is gone now. Didn't take long to scrub it. We need to archive these things so they don't vanish forever.

It works perfect for me. Do you have adblock or something on?

Okay, here I go, you won't like this at all.

I grew up in Houston, and it has not gotten worse, this is actually an improvement. This used to happen ALL the time. For example, back in the '60s if the police were called to a house where the neighbors heard loud arguing and breaking furniture the police would go in the door and if they saw one trace of blood or bruise on the wife the husband would be taken out back for pretty much what you saw in the video. After the beating the police would say something like, "Don't make us come out here 'gin, ya hear?"

Known paederphiles were pretty much hunted down in officers' free time, most just went missing. The number one circulating rumor was that the officers drove the pervs to the Houston Ship Channel and sold the pervs to ship captains, usually Greek ones with all Greek crews.

In other words, tough justice and it usually happened when the victims of the crimes were women and children.

I'm wondering if this code still exists, if maybe these burglars broke into a home with the family in it? Maybe threatened some children?

Don't get me wrong, I'm not endorsing this behavior, just stating how it was.

reply to post by seentoomuch


My Father was a Dallas cop throughout the 70s and 80s and I can pretty much confirm most of what you said about the way police handled things back then.

He told me about an incident where a drunk driver ran up on the curb and tore apart a little girl riding her tryke.
He, his partner and another set of cops, arrested the guy, drove him to a discreet location and beat him unconscious, woke him up and started over, then took him in for booking.
While he wasnt really bragging about it and wasnt necessarily proud about it, he also wasnt sorry about it.
Also, the "brother hood of cops" also called professional courtesy, also extended to family members, no speeding tickets etc..

reply to post by Xcathdra


Points duly noted. If you have no history of violent behavior towards a suspects than my little play on words does not apply to you.

Officer tried and convicted under California Law (No double standards) and that makes it ok? I think not. You can't take any idiot and slap a badge on him. And I include myself in that as well. I have no delusions of gradure towards myself. I could never do what they do. That's why I'm not a cop. But some people don't have that filter that tells them "Mmm maybe I should try that out" Such as this guy. Not only do I blame him, I blame the system that put him there. So under california law shouldn't this be murder one. Doesn't that mean Capital punishement. I know if someone was video taping me tying up some guy than shooting him I would face the needle for sure.

Australia, Canada, United States, France , England...police brutality is police brutality.

As for the brain dead guy. I don't care what or who's after me. If something or someone twice my size is charging at me I will move my butt out of there. Aspecialy if I didn't do anything. It's called self perservation.

Sorry about the faulty link. It was this mouthy petite woman in the cell and the male cop was exiting the cell. She says something then he turns around running smashed her into to the wall and just starts beating her up. Then, of course, there's this other officer that comes in and restrains her while the first cop get a couple more shot in for good measure

Originally posted by Xcathdra

Originally posted by groingrinder
I keep saying it and I will say it yet again. [color=#FF0000]WE NEED CIVILIAN REVIEW BOARDS!! The police are incapable of policing themselves. Review boards should work like jury duty. You are called and expected to serve when your turn comes up. Ordinary citizens doing the work, not somebody with community standing who has a stake in letting the criminal cops off the hook.

It is my fervent hope that every one of these disgusting pigs gets street justice.
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/959a8d5188fa.gif[/atsimg]

Would you be ok with a person who has nothing do do with your line of work sit in judgment over your actions? Would you be ok with a person who has a personal bias sitting in judgment over your actions?

While I have no issues with review boards, randomly grabbing people to review actions would be no different than randomly grabbing a person off the street to serve as a lawyer for another person.

Your anology is flawed. We are talking about a citizen board to review actions against citizens by out-of control cops whose salary is paid by...you guessed it CITIZENS. You as a cop are to be a servant of citizens not a heavy handed thug.

reply to post by romanmel


Then you need to research how a citizen review board works. They do not get every single complaint, nor do they get to review every single use of force. The suggestions / recomendations made are not required to be followed for the single fact they are not trained law enforcement.

I am not saying its a bad idea. What I am saying is the manner in which Law Enforcement does their job is not fully understood by the citizens, and threads on this site is a pefect example of that problem.

reply to post by Xcathdra


In cases that have been pointed out in the thread, a citizen does not really need to know exactly how police do their job. It is plain as day to see that what the cops did was wrong, and them cops should be stripped of their badges, and put on trial as any regular citizen would be tried. Like the OP video, dude was hit by a car, thrown through the air like a ragdoll. Obviously no threat whatsoever after that, so those officers should be tried for at least aggravated assault I think it is called, if not for attempted murder. If it was a cop getting stomped on like that, i think the stompers would probably be tried with attempted murder, no?

Oh yeah, one other thing has been bugging me. Why is it considered ok for the police to hit someone who is fleeing and not obviously armed and dangerous with a car. If someone robbed my house, I caught them coming out and ran him down with my car to make a citizens arrest, I am pretty sure I would be charged for it. Or am I wrong and it is not considered ok for the cops to hit a fleeing person with a car?

reply to post by TKDRL


The video in this thread is going to be an exception to my argument. I am not defending their actions in the least bit. What I am trying to get across is people are not familiar with laws and the manner they are applied when it comes to how law enforcement does there job.

A few examples:
* The 4th Amendment does not apply to the individual
* A person can be arrested, charged, tried, convicted and sent to prison for murder without ever being read their miranda warnings.
* An Officers use of force can only be reviewed in the manner it occured in = hindsight 20/20 cannot be used to determine if an officers use of force is valid and justified.
* A Law Enforcement Officer taking action and a private citizen taking action are completely different in terms of what laws govern their allowable actions.
* Law Enforcement Officers, in addition to being required to abide by all state and local laws just like civilians, are also required to obey 42 USC 1983, where civilians are not.
* When an Officer is being investigated for a possible law violation, in addition to Miranda, Law Enforcement also has a secondary notification that is required called our Garrity rights. The 5th Amendment says we can refuse to answer questions that might incriminate ourselves, but since we are employed by an agency with a chain of command, we can be ordered to answer those very questions we take the 5th on, which leads to intresting investigations.

Like I said, I am not trying to shoot it down to hide something. My argument is and has been that the world of Law Enforcement is unique in terms of requirements and how things work. Taking a civilian with absolutely no background or understanding of how this works and what we can do while acting under color of law that civilians cannot do, can lead to serious issues.

Most notably a ruling by a citizen review board of a violation by law enforcement when in actuality no violation ever occured as its covered under law.

I am just pointing out my concerns and offering an explanation for them.