The South Atlantic Anomaly

Originally posted by fakedirt
reply to post by loveguy

 

my initial feasability went something like this.. all assumptions btw.

collection aperture

transition corridor

containment vessel


a testing medium would need to be positioned in front of the aperture to determine
flow pattern and scatter. as the anti-protons strike the medium, they would
leave indentations that would be used to identify the best sizing for the aperture.
the medium could be boron impregnated polythene approx one inch thick. i think this
procedure would be impotant due to the unknowns of collecting such a volatile
resource. it would also show any cascade or concentrations of particles that could
potentially engulf and damage external unshielded components of the vehicle.

I should probably be embarrassed that I didn't know what an anti-proton is. Judging by this link, I'm supposed to believe anti protons never existed until '55. So that soup very well could be a collection of the pieces of nuclear radiation that was able to leave our 'breathing air'. So,

the aperture would need to be at a determined distance from the containment
vessel with multiple redundancies along it's transition corridor length, for safety and
consistency of flow. in the event of a cluster or too high a concentration of inbound
particles, the system could repel and detatch the flow. the assumption i imagined
regarding the transition corridor was that it would need to be calibrated to accept
a single stream of particles rather than a wider volume that could potentially
destroy the vehicle should the containment system along the length of the
corridor fail.

I think we are very fortunate that these particles are collecting outside our atmosphere. But not in terms of us one day being able to tap into and utilize it as another energy source, to milk the consumers til death. This stuff is the death of us, and we are trying to reel it in? I take it as a lesson to quit fidgeting with nuclear energy, and hope all them daughters of doom escape our atmosphere and go find some other civilization to wreak havoc on.

the containment vessel, again i imagined a setup similar to the plasma torus vessel
used in various experiments circa 80's onwards and an enhancement of the zeta
(zero energy thermonuclear assembly) setup from the fifties.
once the particles are injected into the torus, as long as the field held, they would
be in constant torus flow and ready for draw or available for transfer to another more
manageable vessel.

a number of redundant systems would need to be incorporated into the vehicle
to ensure there is no failure of the electro/magnetic containment or else the lightshow
would be visible from the ground but thats dependent on the size of the vehicle
and the amount of anti-protons collected. i would say a minimum of four redundant
systems taking account of cme's, circuit board failures etc...

I'm pretty confident it would be more than just a light show. Chain reaction; disturbed particles crashing into disturbed particles, crashing into our atmosphere; igniting it?

transit back to earth is another matter where serious feasability studies would be
required. due to it's volatility, i suspect any inbound delivery system would
need to be well away from population centres.

the revenue from such a system would far outweigh any initial costings,r and d and
operational outlay. uses are obvious and controlled annihilation of anti-protons
could generate electricity through pwr (pressure water reactor) right through to
nuclear remediation where a stream of anti-protons could by focused on a quantity
of nuclear waste and would cancel out the matter to produce heat and light and
again these by-products of annihilation could be utilised to produce electricity.

I certainly like the way that sounds in terms of ridding ourselves from these nuclear by-products. But that would be my initial objective. I would deny any feasibility in such an ambitious endeavor while creating nuclear by-products in the process/utilizing nuclear energy must end.

so there you have it loveguy, a slice of mine minus tangible drawings. wonder if there
are any burt rutans (sp!) out there with the scope for investing in such a system or
will the dod/mod/etc simply hijack any patent and dis-allow development?

best wishes fakedirt.

I wish humanity had more feasible ambitions...low consequential aspirations that extend life, not make it pay.
Why do we use rectifiers to utilize our electronics?

Thanks for listening, and I apologize for having an ill-fatuation for this topic, while utilizing your posts.
My best wishes to you too.

reply to post by loveguy


if memory serves me correctly, astronauts initially became aware of these particles during the mercury missions and i think the 14 day orbit to test how man would fare in space, readying for the moonshots. as they attempted to sleep in orbit, they noticed unusual flashes in their eyes. they also noticed unusual effects within their craft as they passed through that region.

you bring up an interesting possibility that this region is the by-product of nuclear activities on earth. i take that on board, however, my assumption is that this region has always been there and until recently has come to light.

i suppose that if this region was the by-product of nuclear activity here on earth, it may be possible to analyse any radio-isotope from the region to ascertain if that is the case.
it may very well be the case that the high altitude nuclear detonations carried out from johnson island could have been the cause. quite a mystery here.
have you looked into the sprites in leo/upper atmosphere? it has recently been said that a by-product of lightning are sprites ejecting into space and that these sprites produce anti-protons again in abundance. seems nature may be the main producer here.

nuclear remediation and clean energy production are my main considerations here but i get your drift regarding possible abuse of and it will probably be the case that ownership of this region may well be an impotanat future consideration.
if the dod do possess the ability to re-charge satellites while transitioning through this region, it makes the case for a commercial undertaking all the more feasible. if you consider the cost/benefit analysis of producing anti-protons down here on earth, it seems that a tremendous amount of resources are being used to produce minute amounts.
it's unfortunate that this planets administration and governing bodies are so fragmented as well as under the thumb of banking institutions and big oil interests. this imo will always be a barrier to any future clean energy system. i would take my hat off to anyone who had the balls to plough through all that in order to create a pure sustainable energy framework but i suspect with the multitudes of special interest groups and lobbyists, it would be near impossible to achieve without muscle and finance.

for now regards fakedirt.

' Why do we use rectifiers to utilize our electronics?' i sense a touch of tesla in this question!

reply to post by fakedirt


Yep.

Thanks for asking.

New user here, first-time post; actually came for an entirely different topic, but I'll throw down my two cents on this somewhat outdated thread.

I flew a mission called the Space Experiments Support Package; a sun-sync LEO primary concerned with mapping the near earth magnetic, radiation, and ionic environment. Needless to say, the SAA was of significant interest and impact. We called it the 'SAMA' (South Atlantic Magnetic Anomaly), and so did NASA at the time - although 'Magnetic' fell out of favor owing to evolving theories.

Besides its scientific value, I can tell you it was a real PITA for the operators, since it often messed up a lot of things (instruments, cals, measurements, etc.) at least four times a day: two consecutive passes ascending, then later two descending. While the community had been aware of the SAA well before the mission ever launched (Wiki says 1958), the experimenters didn't realize it would cause as much of an impact as it did. After a while, we figured out how to enter a pre-canned series of stored commands to reset stuff every time we passed through. Worked pretty well, but since we only had 4K of memory (early 70's technology), it cramped our style a bit. And, a few of the instruments got fried early on.

While I don't purport to be either a geophysicist or an ET theorist, it seems WAAAYYY less than plausible that this could be man-made. That would be on the scale of massive planetary engineering, and altering the inner-core (as opposed to the surface) at that.

It never seemed satisfactory to me that the effect is caused solely by - as Wiki puts it - the 'non-concentricity of the Earth and its magnetic field' - i.e., the center of the magnetic dipole being offset from the center of mass. If that were true, wouldn't we see a stronger magnetic field opposite the SAA? After having watched the data for years, I can assure you we don't. Nor can I entirely accept that the Van Allen Inner is simply 'closer to the earth' at the SAA than anywhere else. This discrepancy in the explanation is alluded to in the 'Singapore' portion of the Wiki explanation, and has been referred to by some as the 'Singapore Sling' Theory.

The mere fact that the Earth's magnetic axis is a) titled 11 degrees off the spin axis; and b) wanders from year to year; would tend to indicate the inner core is non-uniform - as if there is perhaps a big chunk of something inside different from the rest of the molten iron - although this cannot borne out by variations in the gravitational field. And yes, there are daily and annual variations in the shape and intensity of the SAA, but that can be fairly easily explained by the solar wind.

So what it is then? I suggest this may be a (quasi-spherical) vortex of iron inside the core, kinda-sorta analogous to the Great Red Spot on Jupiter, or a hurricane here on Earth, only on the inside. Our Sun exhibits similar phenomena, with wildly complex flux variations that wrap, warp, converge, diverge, and ultimately 'snap', releasing massive outbursts of both energy and particles - CME's and solar flares - taking out the power grid in Ontario, Dresden, or Buenos Aires every few decades.

Of course, we could postulate that advanced-race-type visitors deliberately engineered this eons ago, creating a homing beacon, an underwater-landing worm hole, or a launch-boost mechanism, but like I said, I'm not an ET theorist, so I don't roll that way.

It is intriguing to propose that we could take advantage of the SAA by utilizing the extra energy in this region, but I'm not sure we have the proper technology to do that just yet.

I'm still waiting for the poles to flip so we won't have to worry about it anymore. j/k.

I wonder if that Secret USAF space plane is playing around in this anomaly ? If there is high energy there it would make a great place to put a space based laser for intercepting missles in flight.

truth1000 mentioned a box that the 'agencies' lofted up to ascertain whether these particles could be converted into stored energy enabling a more efficient satellite power source rather than carrying 'nuclear batteries'.

both of you above have interesting points indeed!
best wishes fakedirt.

Originally posted by fakedirt
truth1000 mentioned a box that the 'agencies' lofted up to ascertain whether these particles could be converted into stored energy enabling a more efficient satellite power source rather than carrying 'nuclear batteries'.

both of you above have interesting points indeed!
best wishes fakedirt.

Hmm.

I wonder, if not antiprotons---but creating/charging up metastable nuclear isomers for use in a "nuclear battery"?

reply to post by mbkennel


i'd speculate that the x-37b payload content is a continuation of previous r and d into metastable isomers. the electron hole process of the silicon substrates reminds me of the dirac equation mentioned earlier in the thread by t1000.

i can't help but revert back to maxwells theory on vortex/spin torsion when thinking about the saa. perhaps the exotic particles are a product of the earths orbital tilt as it ploughs through space/time and in turn the sub-atomic level mirrors this.

hedex needed!
f.

If you were to make energy collectors that mimicked a feather, it could collect the energy that is in this anomaly. As a bird flies it collects this energy and the design of the wing excites the air above because of the shape of the wing. Planes use a very inefficient system to do this but the upper curve does create this dome.

The feathers of the bird moving creates a high energy field. By observing the humming bird you see that their wings blur out the wings, same with a prop on a plane. This high energy field causes a lessening of the magnetic pull from the earth. Half the energy of a bird comes from the air itself, all it has to do is propel itself forward, not cause lift. The exact structure of the feather can be constructed on metal using certain combinations of minerals along with some of the DNA information of a feather. I am sure science can figure out how to do this. Maybe a composite would be better.

In this area the energy is higher so gaining energy would be easier. A person who works with metal, a blacksmith, knows of the properties of the designs that form on metals. They can see this to figure out strength and temper. It should not be hard to figure out if they are aware of the principle. This system is used in designing house wrap for homes also. Layered paper can help hold a charge and help lower heating bills and allow moisture to escape but not come in. Science is well aware of the nature of an electric charge to protect from heat loss, it is incorporated into many products but the information is sort of patented so noone can do it on their own.

Back to the feathers. The ink or fluid of the feathers may have something to do with conversion of this energy. I have no way to test this. The initial process would require a little energy input but could help to overcome gravity. I am sure NASA is aware of this principal, if they are not than something is wrong. They may rely on others to build their stuff, a trade secret that will not be released. The marks on the metal can be ground off, the structure of the metal itself is full of this pattern and can be incorporated into everything. Leaving the design on the metal will not cause any more drag, in fact the drag may be less as the energy field is what air actually touches. When a person touches something, you do not actually touch it. The energy field touches it. If we did touch the material we would get stuck to it, as touching something like iced metal with our tongue. Welding occurs till energy is returned to push the bond away.