A woman's "right" to have a child

Why would you think he is a dirtbag?

He entered into a relationship where he expected that he and she were on the same page about this issue. That's about as good as you are going to get.

She changed. He hasn't.

Neither is a worse person for it.

Originally posted by Aeons
Why would you think he is a dirbag?

He entered into a relationship where he expected that he and she were on the same page about this issue. That's about as good as you are going to get.

She changed. He hasn't.

Neither is a worse person for it.

Well there's those vows you know isn't there something to honor and to cherish? If she wants to have a child, honor her wishes or GTFO(set her free)! Most of the time this kind of thing is because the man talked her into agreeing with those terms or else, no wedding for you dear. Men are a manipulative bunch, she wants children now = she always wanted to, but she was bending to his will, which means he = manipulative dirtbag! But she is free to divorce and go have her child and raise it as a single parent. He is selfish. Why anyone would actually say they didn't want to have children and bend to someone elses' will; well there is many different reasons she may have:
1) she thought he was the best she was going to land
2) Money
Or 3) The sex was good and she was hooked.
She bent to his wishes and married for the wrong reasons simple as that, some people simply settle for less and that is sad.

My husband had everyone put pressure on me to have a baby. I caved in and had our son. I would not trade him for the world. As people move on in their lives, their priorities change, they grow....up. I would rather have a child of mine give me my last drink of water on my death bed than a paid stranger or extended family member. My advice is the couple should split up before it is too late for her to have a baby. If she stays in the relationship without a child, she may end up becoming unconsolably bitter in the future. If he loves her enough to not want to lose her, then he should bless her wish. Imagine if she does have a child and he falls completely in love with it? He should explore this possibility.

reply to post by ldyserenity


Oh no. She might not marry him. The horror.

If a woman is so weak that in a society where she HAS choices and legal protections, but she cannot live without a specific man marrying her...she's pathetic BY CHOICE.

Now, if we lived in a society where you didn't have any legal standing outside of marriage, and few legal protections and rights I'd empathize.

Good God weak women annoy me.

Originally posted by Aeons
reply to post by ldyserenity

 

Oh no. She might not marry him. The horror.

If a woman is so weak that in a society where she HAS choices and legal protections, but she cannot live without a specific man marrying her...she's pathetic BY CHOICE.

Now, if we lived in a society where you didn't have any legal standing outside of marriage, and few legal protections and rights I'd empathize.

Good God weak women annoy me.

Yes but it happens sadly it's true I agree with you on that. I would almost be positive it was money, so she was a weak money grubber, but still she should leave now grow a backbone to have her kid. JMO.

ADD:Maybe the more appropriate word for sad is pathetic.

I'm pretty sure child birth is an inalienable natural right. Just my two cents.

I've been through this exact issue. Priorities change. My wife put on a campaign of sorts, though she did not enlist others. I ultimately came to the conclusion that if I wanted to continue the relationship, it was very selfish of me to deny her the one fervent wish that she had come to have. It's true that she did not have it originially and that we had started off our relationship both insisting we did not want children, so I could and did claim she changed the rules. Nevertheless, stuff happens. Parents die. You come to view the world differently as you age. If you are going to take this journey together you have to recognize this and be willing to adapt.

If this guy refuses to change, ok. That's his right, too, but there are consequences. A friend of mine divorced his wife over this issue. She did not want children. Now he is sending his two off to school and she has one very geriatric cat. You make choices.

Originally posted by schuyler
I've been through this exact issue. Priorities change. My wife put on a campaign of sorts, though she did not enlist others. I ultimately came to the conclusion that if I wanted to continue the relationship, it was very selfish of me to deny her the one fervent wish that she had come to have. It's true that she did not have it originially and that we had started off our relationship both insisting we did not want children, so I could and did claim she changed the rules. Nevertheless, stuff happens.

Sometimes priorities chage that's true, but that is rare. Sometimes people just say what they think others want to hear. But you know that was great you did that for your wife.And how do you feel about that choice? Do you love your child/children?
Is there any resentment? I thin this is what the OP wants to hear from people that have dealt with this situation.

I have another personal story for you OP, maybe for the man involved in this situation.

We have had two family friends, males, who were in the same situation.

One of them vehemently did not want any children. He did divorce his first wife over the issue.

And two years later, had a child with his second wife. And then another one after that. He loves being a Dad.

He ruined his first marriage to defend a goal he apparently didn't even really believe in anymore. He wanted to be in control and right more than he wanted to examine himself.

Another family friend did, EXACTLY THE SAME THING.

I find it amazing that vehemently childless men, willing to go to the mattresses on the issue, will find that once they "win" this argument go away and IMMEDIATELY decide to have children with another woman.

I bet just about every guy on this board knows a guy who did exactly this.

If you are their friend, perhaps you might bring up this story to him. Really examining what he wants, and if he is going to be one of those guys in two years, might be a worthwhile spent couple of minutes in his life.

Originally posted by muzzleflash
Here is a perfect comparison.

Do you have the right to urinate or sneeze?

To breathe?

They are just bodily functions.

She has the right to have a guinea pig.... a child is a person and has a righto be born into a loving home where he or she is cherished.Not because a biological clock is ticking down
Its a common form of selfishness on her part. older women having kids and a career.because Gloria Steinem says they should be "super women" and can have it all..



There are plenty of kids who need a home she can adopt anytime.


added: I guess(sneezing) "It's a bodily function" makes
it easy to throwaway a fetus ( likea dirty kleenex)during an abortion too,
where kids are involved its not just the mothers' biology involved.

Originally posted by muzzleflash
Here is a perfect comparison.

Do you have the right to urinate or sneeze?

To breathe?

They are just bodily functions.

Not a perfect comparison. In order to urinate, sneeze or breathe we do not require the input of another person. Last I heard having a child still does. If having a child by asexual reproduction was possible then yes indeed it would be just a bodily function.

reply to post by DogsDogsDogs


Quote for Dogs last post:

"If she wants a child and he doesn't... I don't recommend going to a sperm bank. Any child conceived within the boundaries of marriage is still his responsibility despite who fathered the child. She should divorce her husband and find a willing partner elsewhere. And if a sperm bank is used after the divorce is final... she should be prepared to raise the child alone without tapping into any financial resources other than her own. JMO... for what it's worth."


That's just exactly right. If he does not wish to be a father he had better bail on the marriage soon or no matter what he will be paying for the child she will surely have. Take it from one who has been to court and got the damned t-shirt. Judges do not care who fathered the child in a marriage. If you're married it's your problem!
Zindo

reply to post by Jkd Up


I haven't read any replies, as to keep my answer pure, so if I am repeating things, I do apologize. I just didn't want to water down my original thoughts here...

If this man gets "worn down" by peer pressure, and agrees to engage in procreative acts, then he was not forced into anything. He made an informed choice, peer pressure or no.

It is HER right to want a child. It's HIS right to say "Oh Hell NO!" and to keep his pants on.

To me, to think of this in any other terms, is to engage in emotional rhetoric.

~Heff

Originally posted by ldyserenity
Men are a manipulative bunch, she wants children now = she always wanted to, but she was bending to his will, which means he = manipulative dirtbag!

Wait a minute. Firstly, you're totally assuming that he manipulated her in the beginning. If she always wanted children, she shouldn't have lied to him (in your scenario).

. He is selfish.

For not wanting children, being honest about it and sticking to his original plan? Doesn't sound selfish to me.

She bent to his wishes and married for the wrong reasons simple as that, some people simply settle for less and that is sad.

I'll agree that in your scenario, she married for the wrong reasons, but we have no indication that your scenario is correct.

You're calling the man a dirtbag and selfish and I fail to see where he's being either. She went back on deal.

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic


I also agree she was weak and/or mislead him as well. Usually people say what they want their partner to hear. I didn't mean he managed her, it probably was more like he said "I don't want kids" first and then she stated she didn't because she thought that's what he wanted to hear. You're right Dirtbag was the wrong choice. So was selfish. I just hate mine right now so...well you know how that goes. But all in all both of them were/are wrong in thier own way. She's weak because she's gotta enlist friends to help and he won't say "hey later days" to her outright. If her priorities DID change and his have not, simply he should move on and she should grow a backbone. JMO.

Originally posted by ldyserenity
Well there's those vows you know isn't there something to honor and to cherish? If she wants to have a child, honor her wishes or GTFO(set her free)! Most of the time this kind of thing is because the man talked her into agreeing with those terms or else, no wedding for you dear. Men are a manipulative bunch, she wants children now = she always wanted to, but she was bending to his will, which means he = manipulative dirtbag! But she is free to divorce and go have her child and raise it as a single parent. He is selfish. Why anyone would actually say they didn't want to have children and bend to someone elses' will; well there is many different reasons she may have:
1) she thought he was the best she was going to land
2) Money
Or 3) The sex was good and she was hooked.
She bent to his wishes and married for the wrong reasons simple as that, some people simply settle for less and that is sad.

edit on 2-2-2011 by ldyserenity because: space bar is being retarded today!

edit on 2-2-2011 by ldyserenity because: SPELLING

edit on 2-2-2011 by ldyserenity because: clarification

I don't even know what to say..... wait, yes I do.

You seem like you have done some serious research with a large population sample to come to the conclusion that this happens most of the time because the man manipulates the woman into bending to his will to not have kids. What was the outcome of said research? 60%? 80? I'm curious. As far as men being a manipulative bunch, I thought we were just stupid and immature? It takes a decent amount of understanding and intelligence to be manipulative. I always hear women say that men just don't understand them, well we must understand them pretty well in order to manipulate them so easily. Plus, in the OP the ONLY reference to any sort of manipulation is coming from the woman, not the man. That jerk! All he wanted to do was love and cherish his wife, who agreed to not having any kids. Now he has to choose between being alone or possibly unhappy with a child. The nerve of some men.

I have a close friend that really doesn't want to get married, his now-fiance wouldn't let it go, over the course of about 2 years tried everything in the book to get him to marry her. I even told him to do it, because I'm sure she would have left him if he didn't. He had said many times how he wants to get married in the future, but would prefer to wait until he had his life more in order. He gave into her wishes, and they are engaged. Does that mean "usually men only get married because their girlfriend wears them down until they agree"? No, it doesn't. Does that mean it's her fault if he is unhappy with married life? No, it means he personally decided to take the gamble and get married before he was ready, in hopes it would work out okay. If he ends up in a bad spot it's his fault, as he is an adult who is free to make his own choice.

Just like it was the choice of the woman in the OP to agree to not have children when they got married. If she changed her mind, too bad. She is a free woman to should have been more mature and thought ahead, to the fact that she MIGHT want kids one day. That's not his fault, nor is he a dirtbag for it. Doesn't mean she has to stay with him, and stay childless, but it does mean it's HER own doing that causes it, just like it would be my friend's own doing if he is unhappy, because he made his own choice. That's life, choice and consequence. Sounds like some people need to learn to deal with it.

Please delete.

reply to post by ZindoDoone

Quote for Dogs last post:

"If she wants a child and he doesn't... I don't recommend going to a sperm bank. Any child conceived within the boundaries of marriage is still his responsibility despite who fathered the child. She should divorce her husband and find a willing partner elsewhere. And if a sperm bank is used after the divorce is final... she should be prepared to raise the child alone without tapping into any financial resources other than her own. JMO... for what it's worth."

Apparently there was a belch in the system... because that was my quote.

Originally posted by ldyserenity
Sometimes priorities chage that's true, but that is rare.

You see, I don't think it is rare. We're seeing some of that testimony here.

And how do you feel about that choice? Do you love your child/children? Is there any resentment?

Well, that's the irony, isn't it? My wife is now deceased and now all I have is my grown daughter and my grandchildren. So, no, there is no resentment. I would say THAT would be rare.

Originally posted by muzzleflash
Of course she has a right to have a child, if she gets preg.

Do you have a right to your own nature?

And who will stop you from this?

What kind of monster would intervene and prevent this?

How do you prevent it? Mutilate her body? Kill a fetus?

It's free by default.

Everybody has the right to chose, Its making the right decision,or the wrong one that decides your future. Think wisely before taking a path. It might not be the one you envision.