Jordan's powerful Muslim [Brotherhood] opposition warns that Arabs will topple US-allied Mideast le

Asked whether Mubarak should step down, U.S. Vice President Joe Biden said, "No, I think the time has come for President Mubarak to move in the direction to be more responsive to some of the needs of the people out there." He further said that he felt Mubarak would respond to the "legitimate concerns that are being raised" and that many of the protesters were middle-class people simply looking for more opportunity.

Ahmed, the protester, said Egypt wants democracy, after the American model, and he was disappointed by the United States' reaction to the protests and its support for Mubarak.

"We can't understand how come this leader of the free world is looking the other way when it comes to our rights or freedom," he said. "The despotic regime that (the U.S.) supports always demonizes the image of United States ... always putting blame on the United States for everything."

Source: news.blogs.cnn.com...

I think that sums up the US' dilemma nicely ... We live in interesting times.

Originally posted by Secularist

Cant wait for Egypt to join us in the free world.

Sarcasm ... ? Do you live in the US?

reply to post by AllIsOne

It does sum it up pretty well. A new development I just heard on al Jazeera was that Murbarak assured the people in a speech that there would be no military action against the protesters. That the military was there for their security above all. I'm not sure whether he included police in this.

In the same report, the Muslim Brotherhood spokesperson assured the people they were just there as fellow Egyptians and had no political aspirations but were more concerned for the wellbeing of the people. FWIW.

As an aside, after watching Clinton and the rest of the administration, despite Biden's comments, I am becoming more and more convinced that they would not be torn up to see Mubarak go.

Makes sense, they see the Obama administration as weak (whether you believe it is or not, flack jacket needed) and I personally dont blame this for thinking this. I believe Obama is out of his league and is not taking the right advice or foreign policy. They see him as week and one who will bow under pressure...

I cannot believe I am saying this but maybe Hillary can knock some sense into him...

I am no expert so please hold off on the attacks...I plead ignorance... : ) though I knew what the Muslim's brotherhoods agenda was going to be from the first moment I read about them...scary...sharia law, islamic rule....arggghhh I will miss visiting the middle east...

reply to post by marinesniper0351

This administration's foreign policy aligns with that of the Council for Foreign Relations, or CFR. The Clinton and Bush-41 administrations did as well. It was the Bush-43 administration that deviated somewhat and really got us entrenched in the Middle East. So your sense about Clinton is probably on the money.

They're claiming it's not. But we all know people don't always tell the truth.

reply to post by ~Lucidity


Friend I am glad we can both agree Obama needs a Clinton lecture... : ) Sometimes I wonder if she privately laughs her arse off at Obama...I would love to year what says when she thinks the microphones are off....!!!! jajajaa

Originally posted by MMPI2

Right, someone challenges your opinions - so they have absolutely no idea what they are talking about? Wow. That's some kind of perverse logic at play.

I don't deal in opinion. I deal in fact.

And yes, you are absolutely right. The person to whom you are referring has absolutely no idea what they are talking about. No idea at all.

Well, clearly you don't deal in fact, because you just twisted my words in an attempt to make them mean something which you know I never intended.

reply to post by FredT


This reminds me of a TIME DVD documentary set on the World Wars that I had seen. The scenario is pretty much reminds me of what existed before the pre WWI. Countries trying to regroup or establish a stable government. Dictators toppled and opposition parties moving in. Neighbors eyeing neighbor's resources (oil in this case) when the economy is weak within their own nation. Certainly Middle East has always been a perfect candidate region for unstable government and experiments by TPTB (Book named..The Great Chess Game).

reply to post by FlyersFan


Agreed, the US and the West notwithstanding, we will all have ringside seats to watch the Egyptian peoples go from the frying pan into the fire.

And do not think for one minute that this Brotherhood will not use the army against the people, I believe they will in the name of Islam.

Its almost to painful to watch. We have the most beautiful Middle Eastern neighborhoods in Los Angeles...I could not walk down the streets without tears in my eyes, this just cannot happen.

What about a coalition of the finest Egyptian minds representing every democracy in the world come together in Cairo to retrofit this new government. What do you think? Then they can bring others in by invitation to assist.

Too Pollyanna?

Muslim Brotherhood...

Ever hear of anyone able to herd cats? Let me know if you do, because that's the kind of leadership required to unite all of Islam under the banner of religious radicalism.

It happened once that Islam spread around the Mediteranian all the way into Spain. Lasted 50 years and failed due to inner strife. Truth be told, factions upon factions (have been and) are continually at each other's throats.

Sound familiar? It should, because it's the same notion as thinking Southern Baptists, Catholics and Calvinists could get behind each other to unite into a single Christian faith. Hasn't happened in 1700 years. There's just as much division within Islam as there is within Christianity.

Roll Islam and Christianity into one group and then call them all Jews... think it's hopeless? Well, they ALL worship the same God and OT Bible, so why not?

About the same chance the Brotherhood has, imho.

reply to post by MMPI2

I had been to Istanbul in 1997. Most of the people have 2 sides to them when it comes to international politics or Americans in general. Its like that with pretty much many countries where they would certainly welcome the Dollars in investment(s) or aid for which they'll be extra nice. As soon as the work is done, they turn their face. I think upto certain extent it works for pretty much any human being????? or atleast most of them are that way????? Part of my experience also told me that most of the post WWII generation still instilled a different moral and values against the Western countries with regards to the politics that it has been passed down to the current generation(s). The typical stereotypes that exists even in the West about the East or ME exists on the other side as well. But then again that is what keeps us apart. However most of them gave me the feeling that if given a chance, they will join hands with anyone that can topple or remove the power from the West/Great Satan/US or whoever that may be.

Originally posted by mayabong
reply to post by MMPI2

 

If you've been following anything, the Egypt Police force are the most hated by the people, because of their brutality. They also have plain clothes cops all around that they call thugs.

Its widely known that Egypt gets 1.3 billion a year in MILITARY aid.

The people are rioting because they are poor. You have to be pretty desperate to go out with the possibility of getting killed every day.

Because the dictator himself has close to 40 billions in assets spread across the globe

www.jpnews-sy.com...

I don't know if this is the proper thread but I wanted to toss out a few thoughts. It seems to me that the Muslim Brotherhood are taking advantage of a crisis, wouldn't want to let a good crisis go to waste, ahem.

It seems to me that a major issue in Egypt would be a Muslim government taking over. I would think the U.S. would then be faced with the decision to continue sending billions of dollars of our annual paychecks to a Muslim governed nation. Will the U.S. allow Abrams tanks and F-15 fighter jets to come under the governance of Muslim leaders who already see the U.S. as the enemy?

As for the Suez canal, once again, will the U.S. allow a critical shipping lane to come under the control of a religious faction and a Muslim state? The promise from the Muslim Brotherhood is freedom and all the bread you can eat with some state run healthcare, ring any bells? So what does the U.S. do? Move troops to the Suez canal? Are American forces capable of holding a strategic point surrounded by what would quickly become an overwhelming enemy force? Highly unlikely.

Also the call for all American ambassadors to convene for the first time in history would reflect that protocols are about to be put into place as embassies world wide will come under protest and/or attack if the U.S. moves into the Suez canal. It is easy to say that this is really nothing new, the Middle East is always in turmoil, however, Egypt in the hands of a Muslim government could easily be a global game changer with very serious ramifications. I'm not that intelligent, just an average guy with an opinion.

ah yes another fake prophet nut job claiming territory for his gang, paging all team members radical clean up on isle 5.

reply to post by ~Lucidity


Obviously the softness of Obama contributes to the fact that those demonstrators are bold enough to topple the best friendly regime of the US in Egypt. Not that there is anything the US can do at this moment.
The overall landscape of the Middle east will change after all the dust settles down. Hope for the best for Egypt. The Islamic fundamentalist regime will be the least the US wants there.

By the second term of the Bush administration, CIA documents show there were efforts to cultivate Muslim Brotherhood groups in Europe for U.S foreign policy aims.

America`s chickens coming home to roost ?

Has anyone noticed obama`s stance on this ,when the muslims want power he says mubarak should resign

When there was rioting in Iran by the people for more democracy he never said a word,you never heard him tell the mullahs to step down

reply to post by bigyin


It is a very simplistic view to say that the US is in the Middle East only for oil. The US is in the Middle East to contain and manage the Islamic influence in the surrounding global strategic points including the Suez Canal as well as to protect Israel from their aggression. No one in the free world wants the Islamic power to overflow out of the Middle East. First of all, it is against the Vatican's vital interest. And the US happens to be the military super power that the Vatican needs to protect its own interest. What better excuse is there to make the US military to stay in the region than the "oil"?

The fallacy of this is in the fact that the US has more than enough oil for themselves in Alaska for the next 200 years of supply.

reply to post by ~Lucidity


I don't know, but I did see that the police were back out today all over Cairo and from the footage I've seen it seems to be going well. So......let's hope for the best.

Originally posted by masqua
Muslim Brotherhood...

Ever hear of anyone able to herd cats? Let me know if you do, because that's the kind of leadership required to unite all of Islam under the banner of religious radicalism.

It happened once that Islam spread around the Mediteranian all the way into Spain. Lasted 50 years and failed due to inner strife. Truth be told, factions upon factions (have been and) are continually at each other's throats.

Sound familiar? It should, because it's the same notion as thinking Southern Baptists, Catholics and Calvinists could get behind each other to unite into a single Christian faith. Hasn't happened in 1700 years. There's just as much division within Islam as there is within Christianity.

Roll Islam and Christianity into one group and then call them all Jews... think it's hopeless? Well, they ALL worship the same God and OT Bible, so why not?

About the same chance the Brotherhood has, imho.

edit on 31/1/11 by masqua because: Added (have been and)

All true, but perhaps the Muslim Brotherhood will not need the peoples' support?

They are using the what started as a populist uprising and putting their own stamp on it. What if the military decided to back them? With them in charge, they could violently suppress the uprising and install themselves into power.

Would Obama and the French go in to put them down? Hard to say.

I think the people the most worried about all these development would be the Jews in Israel. Wouldnt wanna be living there is Eqypt does go hardline Islamic.

This is definitely a domino effect that isn't over yet. Anyone who can't see that this will continue to spread needs to open their eyes. I can only imagine where things will be by the end of the week. Crazy stuff my friends, crazy stuff.