Bachmann: Founding fathers ‘worked tirelessly’ to end slavery

Originally posted by SLAYER69

Originally posted by glome
again, you can frame it anyway you want. When you die and free your slaves, ala washington, does not qualify for "working tirelessly to end slavery".

it's not a murky point.

Thanks for your opinion.

Many feel differently is all.

No matter how you slice it; the ownership of human beings is morally wrong. Then and now!!
Evasion and rationalization of this truth is very revealing on Bachmann and her supporters.

Originally posted by whaaa
No matter how you slice it; the ownership of human beings is morally wrong. Then and now!!

Are you trying to imply that "I" support the idea of slavery or am justifying it?
Could you please explain what exactly you're attempting or trying to say here other than stating the obvious.

ETA: I see you edited your reply while I was typing out mine.

Evasion and rationalization of this truth is very revealing on Bachmann and her supporters.

I'm not her supporter. I could actually care less to tell the truth. I like how many here make assumptions and simply try to railroad somebody who has a different political stance, and further how some will try to smear a stance of stating factual historical events into being a bigot.


Interesting tactic whaaa

reply to post by SLAYER69



I'm not implying anything. I just want to emphasize that rewriting history into trying to make Americas inception and it's founders
as some sort of Biblical, moral standard is rewriting history. And that's what I perceive Bachmann as trying to do. A clear case of letting ideology get in the way of common sense.

The truth will set you free!

Not directed at anyone in particular but astute students of history would do well to remember the Dred Scott decision when reflecting on slavery in context of our forefathers:

Dred Scott v. Sandford, 60 U.S. 393 (1857) commonly referred to as the Dred Scott decision, was a ruling by the U.S. Supreme Court that people of African descent imported into the United States and held as slaves (or their descendants,[2] whether or not they were slaves) were not protected by the Constitution and could never be U.S. citizens.[3] The court also held that the U.S. Congress had no authority to prohibit slavery in federal territories and that, because slaves were not citizens, they could not sue in court.

SOURCE

As we all know it was the 14th Amendment (9 years later) which FINALLY afforded slaves their rights as citizens. This sad era in American history does not bode well for those attempting to look back with rose colored glasses at the actions of our "forefathers." (Worth noting also that party agendas were quite surprising back then in that it was the Democrats who supported the Dredd Scott decision.)

Just sayin' since we are in search of truth and all.

Oh and Thomas Jefferson was quite the ladies man:

Yet Jefferson was no mere slave owner. He fathered seven children with his slave and mistress Sally Hemings.

SOURCE

Bachmann needs to brush up on her history especially as new celebrity spokesmodel for TPM after SOTUA.

reply to post by SLAYER69


And I will always maintain that it is very foolish to try and hold people of the psst to our moral standards. For example, what if in the future PETA wins the day and we are all looked upon as a bunch of savage animal murderers for simply eating meat? You all going to go vegan today to protect one of your possible future reputations?

Originally posted by kinda kurious
Bachmann needs to brush up on her history especially as new celebrity spokesmodel for TPM after SOTUA.

edit on 26-1-2011 by kinda kurious because: (no reason given)

And have her past and that of her family santitized to keep all of them from being vilified by a bunch of people (here) who couldn't stand up to the same scrutiiny themselves.

Originally posted by centurion1211

Originally posted by kinda kurious
Bachmann needs to brush up on her history especially as new celebrity spokesmodel for TPM after SOTUA.

edit on 26-1-2011 by kinda kurious because: (no reason given)

And have her past and that of her family santitized to keep all of them from being vilified by a bunch of people (here) who couldn't stand up to the same scrutiiny themselves.

BS... I offer myself up to that scrutiny and so should anyone that puts themselves to be paid by my taxes, especially elected officials or candidates for office. If you can't stand the heat, stay out of the kitchen!
And that goes for libs, TPM, GOP, everyone from dog catcher to President. I call for total transparency from everyone that picks up the mantle of public servant paid by taxes. Federal, State, county, local...no exceptions.

reply to post by whaaa




Such a pity that I probably will never have an opportunity to speak personally with this member of congress. I think she means well but has no education at all and is not afraid to let it be known. She, and others like her, are an embarrassment to America.

reply to post by tsawyer2


Worse; at least Obama could have been like "Yeah, well, I was just really in the mood for some steak sauce." He certainly didn't put it in a prepared speech (the "57 states" thing; he might have put steak sauce in a speech, I have no idea.)

Bachman's drivel is an outright perversion of American history. I mean really, doesn't she have an editor?

Originally posted by centurion1211
reply to post by SLAYER69

 

And I will always maintain that it is very foolish to try and hold people of the psst to our moral standards. For example, what if in the future PETA wins the day and we are all looked upon as a bunch of savage animal murderers for simply eating meat? You all going to go vegan today to protect one of your possible future reputations?

Actually, an apt comparison. Ever been to a slaughterhouse or meat packing plant? Toured one of the "farms" where these animals are raised? There's really no way to argue that the meat industry is humane. Would you treat your dog like layer hens are treated? I doubt it. It would probably be regarded as immoral if someone were to trim off a a part of a dog's jaw and cram it in a cage the same size as its body, along with several thousand other dogs, right? And there's really nothing that says that a dog is "better" than a chicken, or more deserving of humane treatment.

I'm sure you realize this. And I'm sure that you, like myself, still eat meat. Can I justify my carnivory with the moral problems of the meat industry? Nope, I could get the same nutrition from plant sources. If I had the time, I could raise, hunt or fish my own animals; something's still dying, but at least I'm confident the animal in question was living a decent life up until that point, and that my killing it was less traumatic than that of, say, an industry cow.

Though I cannot morally justify it, I can thus economically justify it; it costs me fewer personal resources to pick up a package of drumsticks, than it does to either raise that many chickens or acquire a taste for wheat gluten. If as you say, PETA wins the day in the future, and that future society regards killing and devouring animals to be immoral, they're not so much transplanting their own morals onto my head, as they are exercising the same morals we already have, but choose to ignore.

Same with the slave owners. I doubt you would find ANY slave owners back in the day who thought the trade, procurement, use of, and punishment of human slaves was actually "moral" by any standard of the day. Most of the "founding fathers" did in fact have moral qualms over the practice, even while they kept their hands in the field; Patrick Henry, of "give me liberty, or give me death" fame was such a man. he openly admitted that he could not reconcile his revolutionary sentiments with his own practice of slavery - but that the economic advantage was too great to abandon the practice. So too with Jefferson and Washington, and many others of the day.

Slavery was always an evil; it's just that for a large chunk of history in our nation, it was a profitable evil, and thus could be accepted, even if it could not be excused.

oh my begeeeez ... has Bachmann completely lost touch with reality?
yeah ok, i probably shouldn't ask such a rhetorical question, but come on ppl ... i sure hope NO one buys into this BS cause that's all it is and a classic example of our clueless 'leaders?'
If she's speaking off the cuff, she sure needs a writer ... otherwise her writer needs an edumacation.

Aside from Bachmans hyper partisan modality (as opposed to someone like Ron Paul)

What bothers me is the attempt to recast historical record to create more identity politics, which is exactly what America needs to abandon.This is the same coded talk that Bush used throughout his presidency, speaking of freedom, eagles and evil doers to mesmerize Tea Partiers of the day. The talk is an update on the same formula as Bush's, Bachman uses the Founding Father as an emotional prop in order to establish the nationalistic bound that seems to be hard wired into most America Conservatives. You will go straight over the cliff, I have seen it, this is the same thing


Enemy

2000 Terrorists

2010 Socialists

Emotional Bound and lynch pin

2000 Democracy

2010 1776

IT is not that hard - I really hope conservatives can figure this out

The simple truth that escapes most of us is that Liberals do not have ANY SAY over what conservatives do and advocate. Conservatives do not have ANY SAY over what Liberals do and advocate...

I have come to understand Bush is allegedly a liberal, socialist, commie pinko, heard it here many time by disgusted conservatives... Well if this is true, why are you going to tolerate this lady who uses the SAME EMOTIONAL MANIPULATIVE PROCESS as Bush the liberal, socialist, commie pinko??? You have a whole lot more say about your own party, ideas and actions then you do over the opposite. The lady is an extension of Bush... that cliff we fell off due to Bush's commie, liberalism HAS EVERYTHING TO DUE WITH THIS RHETORICAL PROCESS Bachman uses with impunity. You cannot control who I vote for, so why don't you guys finally clean house... this lady is a corn in same turd you guys claim to hate, I know you hate it, I know you want to grow. Fixing fault is a strength,,, letting this manner continue is masochistic and only hurts your cause.

Originally posted by trailertrash
reply to post by whaaa

 

I think she means well but has no education at all and is not afraid to let it be known.

Well stated.

Her utter ignorance is exacerbated by her ability to speak. As the old adage goes, It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to open one's mouth and remove all doubt. Blondes of America rejoice, Palin and Bachmann have elevated you all to rocket scientists. (BTW, not intended as a slight to females, I love women.)

Why are people surprised??? She's proven time and again that she's VERY uneducated and often blatantly lying

Let's have a look at some of Bachmann's quotes, shall we? She's definitely not the intelligent women the right wants her to be...some of those quotes are lunatic!

"I find it interesting that it was back in the 1970s that the swine flu broke out under another, then under another Democrat president, Jimmy Carter. I'm not blaming this on President Obama, I just think it's an interesting coincidence."

But she's obviously fully aware that some of her crazy followers will pick up on that and claim this to be true...

"Carbon dioxide is portrayed as harmful. But there isn't even one study that can be produced that shows that carbon dioxide is a harmful gas."

WRONG

"Speaker Pelosi, who has been busy sticking the taxpayer for a $100,000 bar tab for alcohol on the military jets that she is flying."

And another lie

"if there is taxpayer funding of abortion, there will be 30 percent more abortions."

Blatant lie...even if abortions might get covered, the current law on when an abortion is lawful or not doesn't change. So there shouldn't be a noticeable increase. But who cares about the truth if the lie serves to further mislead your fundamentalist followers, right?

"There are hundreds and hundreds of scientists, many of them holding Nobel Prizes, who believe in intelligent design."

For crying out loud, there's mor scientists called "Steve" than scientists who believe in creationism...and most of those don't even work in fields that would qualify them to make any claims regarding the subject. LAUGHABLE comment by her...

Source

"I want people in Minnesota armed and dangerous on this issue of the energy tax because we need to fight back. Thomas Jefferson told us 'having a revolution every now and then is a good thing,' and the people -- we the people -- are going to have to fight back hard if we're not going to lose our country."

Yeah, brute force always works, right? Not sure Gifford would agree with her statement...

"Does that mean that someone's 13-year-old daughter could walk into a sex clinic, have a pregnancy test done, be taken away to the local Planned Parenthood abortion clinic, have their abortion, be back and go home on the school bus? That night, mom and dad are never the wiser."

Only in your fantasy world Michelle

"I don't know where they're going to get all this money because we're running out of rich people in this country."

In reality, there's now more rich people than ever before, while the low income class is growing at a scary rate, and the middle class is slowly dying. But who cares about reality, right?

"Little children will be forced to learn that homosexuality is normal and natural and perhaps they should try it."

Yes, because homosexuality is clearly a choice, lol. I wonder if she ever wanted to give it a go just because someone told her

"Literally, if we took away the minimum wage—if conceivably it was gone—we could potentially virtually wipe out unemployment completely because we would be able to offer jobs at whatever level."

Yes, and turn the US into China, full of working poors...speaking of working poors, it's something Michelle really should look up. The amount of working poors is growing at an alarming rate, even with minimum wage. Minimum wage is a bit of a joke anyway, not even $6/hr, are you kidding me? I make more sitting in the street begging, and just for comparison, I made $25/hr delivering pizzas in Switzerland. Goes to show what a joke minimum wage is in the US...

"Many teenagers that come in should be paying the employer because of broken dishes or whatever occurs during that period of time. But you know what? After six months, that teenager is going to be a fabulous employee and is going to go on a trajectory where he's going to be making so much money, we'll be borrowing money from him."

Riiiiiiight

"If we allow businesses to be prosperous and accrue capital, they’ll be giving their employees more than they can even begin to imagine. But when we continue to tie cement blocks on businesses (like the minimum wage) and constrain them, they can actually do less than their employees."

Yes, because companies would voluntarily pay employees more...just because. Their goal isn't to maximize profits, it's to give money to their employees, right? What a joke...

"I look at the Scripture and I read it and I take it for what it is. I give more credence in the Scripture as being kind of a timeless word of God to mankind, and I take it for what it is. And I don't think I give as much credence to my own mind, because I see myself as being very limited and very flawed, and lacking in knowledge, and wisdom and understanding. So, I just take the Bible for what it is, I guess, and recognize that I am not a scientist, not trained to be a scientist. I'm not a deep thinker on all of this. I wish I was. I wish I was more knowledgeable, but I'm not a scientist."

Maybe, if she'd put the bible away she'd have the time to actually look up facts and stop distributing her hogwash view of the world...

"Something that I think sometimes people don’t like to hear is that secular people can be sometimes even more dogmatic in beliefs than people who are not secular. ... In some ways, to believe in evolution is almost like a following; a cult following — if you don’t believe in evolution, you’re considered completely backward. That seems to me very indicative of bias as well."

No, it's called "accepting reality" and believing in things that are backed up by facts rather than random doctrines and religious scriptures.

'Where do we say that a cell became a blade of grass, which became a starfish, which became a cat, which became a donkey, which became a human being?'

PUT AWAY THAT BIBLE FOR CRYING OUT LOUD!! No one is saying that, certainly not scientists. It just shows how uneducated she is...

Not all cultures are equal.

Hitler would agree...good for you Michelle

[Same-sex marriage] is probably the biggest issue that will impact our state and our nation in the last, at least, thirty years. I am not understating that.

Only in your little fantasy world Michelle...in the real world, we are much more concerned with wars, hunger, unemployment, or the economy.

This is not about hating homosexuals. I don't. I love homosexuals.

Closing statement after ranting about homosexuals for minutes on KKMS...ironic

I never questioned Barack Obama’s patriotism.

ORLY Michelle...let's have a look, shall we?

Just 3 days earlier:

Absolutely, I'm very concerned that [Barack Obama] may have anti-American views.

Do I have to go on??? Or is this enough to prove what an uneducated fool she is??

What's really sad is that she has followers...who must be at least as dumb as her to fall for her hogwash

reply to post by MrXYZ


Wow, what a compilation of greatest hits. And nice rebuttals. The last time I read such a litany of falsehoods and bigotry it was the minutes of a meeting where they were wearing sheets and burning a cross.

Seriously, if the TPM wants to be taken seriously they had better do some damage control and offer a legitimate representative. Humble grass-roots beginnings are admirable but to be a legitimate force in American politics they would do well to seek a representative who speaks for their entire organization. Anti-establishment is one thing but without structure, goals and a unified message I suspect they'll be relegated to a yard-sale, lunatic fringe category.

I actually am excited about them evolving into a potent political party in the long term if they don't continue to sway from alienating those with moderate common sense. My .02¢

Originally posted by whaaa

Originally posted by centurion1211

Originally posted by kinda kurious
Bachmann needs to brush up on her history especially as new celebrity spokesmodel for TPM after SOTUA.

edit on 26-1-2011 by kinda kurious because: (no reason given)

And have her past and that of her family santitized to keep all of them from being vilified by a bunch of people (here) who couldn't stand up to the same scrutiiny themselves.

BS... I offer myself up to that scrutiny and so should anyone that puts themselves to be paid by my taxes, especially elected officials or candidates for office. If you can't stand the heat, stay out of the kitchen!
And that goes for libs, TPM, GOP, everyone from dog catcher to President. I call for total transparency from everyone that picks up the mantle of public servant paid by taxes. Federal, State, county, local...no exceptions.

edit on 26-1-2011 by whaaa because: (no reason given)

Then how about keeping your attacks to policies and not make them personal? That's where your (and many other libs) statements comes off the rails.

Keep in mind that if questioning obama - in the minds of many liberals - makes one a racist, then what does viciously and personally going after every conservative woman (but hardly saying a word about male conservatives) make a person?

Just asking ...

Originally posted by centurion1211
Then how about keeping your attacks to policies and not make them personal? That's where your (and many other libs) statements comes off the rails.

Pretty amazing hypocrisy by someone who harasses other members privately who disagree. (Hint: not necessarily me)

I'll need to review new T&C regarding posting U2U's but you know what I'm talking about.

Wanna go there?

Originally posted by centurion1211



Then how about keeping your attacks to policies and not make them personal? That's where your (and many other libs) statements comes off the rails.

Keep in mind that if questioning obama - in the minds of many liberals - makes one a racist, then what does viciously and personally going after every conservative woman (but hardly saying a word about male conservatives) make a person?

Just asking ...

Hypocrite! Should I bring up some post/threads attacking Nancy Pelosi, Hillary Clinton, Chelsea Clinton, Michelle Obama, on a personal level, made by conservative men.
For Christ sake it's politics; the acrimony flows both ways. Should we all make nice, nice now? Not gonna happen from either side and you damn well know it!

I wish I had of saved all the physical threats made to me in U2Us by conservatives that disagreed with my stance on particular topics, but I just chalked it up to people drinking while on the www. and getting wrapped up in the moment.

reply to post by MrXYZ



Wow I was not aware of these statements by Bachman, I was only familiar with her methods.

SO

ok...

It is very clear that she is not a libertarian (TEA PARTY ). If fact she sounds like a neocon heavy, control freak.
She is a joke, she is tea party with the tour buses and corporate sponsors, again, what is this lady doing associating with a libertarian movement? Clean your house, worry bout mine when your work is done.

reply to post by centurion1211


Let me help you out since you seem to be perpetually confused:

How to Question Obama and not be a racist:


1. Obama isn't even American = Racist
2. I don't America is ready for a black president = Racist
3. Obama doesn't see America like you or I do = probably Racist
4. Obama is a marxist, socialist, fascist, ist, ist ist ist = Racist


5. Obama has no real plan to lower the deficit = not racist
6. Obama's not offered up any real plan = not racist
7. Obama signed a flawed piece of legislation = not racist
8. I want my candidate to beat Obama in 2008/ 2012 = not racist
9. I could do a better job than Obama = not racist

10. Obama is a muslim = racist
11. Obama and Michelle gave each other a "terrorist fist bump" = racist
12. Michelle Obama was not proud of her country until Obama started to win elections = racist
13. They grow watermelon on the white house lawn= racist
14. Obama wants to see America suffer for reperations for slavery = racist

15. The democrats are also in bed with business and Obama hasn't changed anything = not racist
16. I don't like Health Care reform = not racist
17. I want lower taxes = not racist
18. All that welfare money helps blacks = racist
19. This is America you should speak English and be a Christian= racist


hope that helps.