Did the Poor Cause The Crisis?

Originally posted by prexparte
reply to post by TheWalkingFox

 

It wasnt the banks fault the poor took out loans they could not pay back.

That is, in fact, the bank's fault. See, when you go into a bank and fill out for a loan, you do not decide if you get that loan or not. The bank does. And that bank will NOT give you that loan, if they don't see profit in it. Doesn't matter if you're scraping dirt for a living, or living off the proceeds of your multi-trillion dollar ostrich meat industry, the bank will only loan to you if they think they can make money from it.

The banks placed poor bets, and that's their own damn fault.

When a poor person who never owned a house suddenly can without question, ya they will do whatever it takes to get into a home.efven if it means future foreclosure because they didnt read the entire contract...

Funny thing is, adjustable-rate mortgages don't actually tell you what the rate will be adjusted to, since it's based on market voodoo rather than any determinable scale. This resulted in predatory lending - again, the banks fault. The initial rate of interest is low and affordable, then suddenly rockets up without warning, and tough cookies, you now owe more than your house is worth, and the bank rakes it all in as profit.

That's right. Profit. Banks were making money off the poor with these things, which is the only reason they engaged in the practice at all.

it was both sides at fault bansk and the poor...

I can't fault poor people for being victims of predatory lending, when their other option might very well be living under an overpass.

The bigger problem is actually the middle class, if you want to blame people on the socioeconomic scale. The average household runs something like seven credit cards, and tend to live well beyond the means of their actual income by banking on their own debt.

Even then, the greater fault lies in the banks who issued those credit cards, knowing damn well what the result would be.

but hey we all know banks are not in it for the little people, at I do and did back when i was offered a loan so large I knew i could never pay it..

of course they're not. They're out to screw the little people and then get free money from the government - i.e, more screwing of the little people. Imagine what that $85 billion that went to AIG could have done for the people they had dicked over.

Originally posted by simone50m
I have never tried to get a house (or any thing else) that I could not afford with the actual funds in my checking account. But that home loan scheme stuff reminds me of those predatory pay day loan stores, which became so out of control that my state had to crack down on their unfettered capitalism.
findarticles.com...
You may enjoy denouncing those of lesser means. But they are deliberately maliciously ---targeted---.
www.businessweek.com...

I dont denounce those of lesser means, and made clear the distinction between the entitlement lazy " poor" and the truly poor. The entitlement poor fueled this scheme by the banks. They are the ones targeted. Being poor doesnt automatically mean that the person has no sense.. financial or otherwise.. and isnt automatically caught up in predatory practices. The predatory bank and CC practices are focused on those who entitlement minded, ignorant, and desire things for which they have not worked. Its unfortunate that truly poor anddeserving are caught up init.. but this scheme needed fuel to work. It could never have worked unless the "victims" were willing and participated.

I reiterate.. because it annoys me: Poor does NOT mean stupid. Poor people are not so subnormal that they can not learn, figure out, and/or see what the true risks are when entering into a mortgage, cc agreement, or anything else. I expect a lot out of my fellow man.. but not more than I expect out of myself. I am not a banker or appraisal professional, but if my house is appraised at 200K.. when I bought it for 60K.. or I make 60K and tey approve me for a 300K loan.. it doesnt take a rocket scientist to figure it out. Poor does NOT mean stupid or victim automatically and not all poor bought into this scheme. Lower middle and Middle class bought into it because they too feel entitled to what they can not afford.. and they knew better.

will there be a new hitler coming to power? I mean instead of the Jews this new hitler will force the poor to go to slave camps

Originally posted by starwarsisreal
will there be a new hitler coming to power? I mean instead of the Jews this new hitler will force the poor to go to slave camps

The lazy poor will always be poor, but the normal poor wouldnt be poor anymore if they werent caught in a catch-22 engineered by our govt and upheld by the weird thought that everyone deserves a hand out. If we ditched the lazy poor the truly deserving and disabled would be able to live in a healthy way and not stuck with the " welfare baby" stigma. Nothing says that in this prosperous country our poor should eat dirt and live in huts.. but it will come to that if we dont cut the lazy and either force them to work or allow them to live under bridges if they choose to stand around with their hand out and take away from the deserving. We cant afford to prop up lazy suckers who have absolutely no inclination to pull their weight. The truly needy will suffer until we decide enough is enough with the entitlement crowd.

whoa! thread is moving will post the following and hope i don't feel dumb later

Biggest Defaulters On Mortgages Are The Rich

Originally posted by DerepentLEstranger
whoa! thread is moving will post the following and hope i don't feel dumb later

Biggest Defaulters On Mortgages Are The Rich

same mindset... the rich are entitled to live in 4 million dollar homes even though they only make 200K a year. No one bothered to have a plan B or the sense to live within their means. The predatory lenders target a certain type of person.. they hit this nail on the head. The problem is that the banksters really havent suffered.. the dummies who bought into the scam have. Reorganization and bail out isnt suffering.

IMO bailing them out and not prosecuting them for predatory lending practices or forcing bankruptcy was the true crime. Too big to fail my butt.

reply to post by Advantage

Poor does NOT mean stupid or victim automatically and not all poor bought into this scheme.

damn right!
my grandma was a farmers daughter who only went to up to 3rd grade [b. 1911]
she could not multiply or divide, she 'd use repeated addition or subtraction as was the case.
it took her 40 years[over half of that was as a widow,grandpa was 30yrs older] but she paid off the mortgage and the banks were always offering deals and such but it was always the same answer "No Señor!"

Originally posted by DerepentLEstranger
reply to post by Advantage

 

Poor does NOT mean stupid or victim automatically and not all poor bought into this scheme.

damn right!
my grandma was a farmers daughter who only went to up to 3rd grade [b. 1911]
she could not multiply or divide, she 'd use repeated addition or subtraction as was the case.
it took her 40 years[over half of that was as a widow,grandpa was 30yrs older] but she paid off the mortgage and the banks were always offering deals and such but it was always the same answer "No Señor!"

Amen dear.
I also resent it when people say crime comes from poverty too. WTF.. thats classist, racist, elitist, etc! Crime comes from criminals. I know and am related to poor .. dirt poor.. folks. Poor doesnt mean criminal, stupid, unable, or all of these other stupid ideas. I really do resent it. I dont get offended often... but that always gets my goat.

My dad was rez educated.. aka.. not real educated and definitely NO silver spoon in his mouth. He moved off the rez, went to New Orleans, and started a construction company which turned into construction companies ( plural) in several states ( plural) .. he can barely read... but apparently he could add! LOL! Dont EVER tell me that poor equals dumb or criminal...

Originally posted by starwarsisreal
will there be a new hitler coming to power? I mean instead of the Jews this new hitler will force the poor to go to slave camps

...and why not?

Then once all the poor are dead,
and the [color=gold]system forces the
middle class to replenish
their ranks we will have
proof that poverty
is created by
corruption
from on
high.


David Grouchy

reply to post by davidgrouchy


i remember that ! the argument was something like since those poor[read potential criminals] weren't born in the 1st place the crimerate dropped.

reply to post by prexparte


That is ridiculous what you say. The banks were not forced into giving loans, no one put a gun to their heads, they knew the borrowers could not pay..

reply to post by indianajoe77


You and babybunnies and several others on this thread seem to have missed one of my major points.

The crash of the subprime market was disastrous, but it was not, in and of itself, the cause of the worst worldwide financial crisis since the 1920's. That came about when the banks and Wall Street messed themselves up badly with their greed, lust for a quick buck, and illegal and/or ethically questionable practices just to make a quick buck. They knew they could screw up completely because they were "too big to fail" and the government would rush in and rescue them in order to forestall a worldwide catastrophe, and that, of course, is what it did.

Yes, it's true that some borrowers should have been more cautious about taking these mortgages, though I'd like to point out that the poor usually didn't qualify for more conventional ones and these adjustable rate kind were the only ones available for them. Almost everybody dreams the American dream, and a home of one's own is one of the key elements of that. Can't blame people for striving to realize their dreams.

But to get back to your line of argument: I, for one, agree that personal responsibility is very important, and I think many people would agree. But you can argue personal responsibility from here to eternity and still miss the point.

The point is that the crash of the subprime market was bad, but it was not responsible for the worst global economic crisis since the 1920's. That was caused by much bigger and more powerful entities than they themselves.

Well when people get raped, doesn't the person who committed the act blame the victim?

B-b-b-but, it wasn't it wasn't my fault, that girl shouldn't have been wearing that mini-skirt.

Gimme a break.

I see that most of the responders are still under the wrong impression of what this world financial crisis is really about.

It has NOTHING to do with bad home loans or people using the equity in their homes as a credit line, or Credit Card abuse.

Remember in 2008 when the FED received the bailout, $40 billion would have PAID OFF every bad home loan in the United States. Let me state this again, The Government could have purchased EVERY home in foreclosure in 2008 for $40 billion.

If this was about the common person being irresponsible with the credit they received

WHY WAS the FED DEMANDING $700 Billion BAILOUT.
The answer lies with where the bailout money went.

Derivatives, that’s where the money went.
A very simplistic explanation of what a derivative is:
it is a WAGER on a Yield. Say you have 100 mortgages in a bundle and you sell the yield ( the projected income from the interest income of these 100 mortgages) as an investment. Then you sell the derivative of the yield as an investment, which in reality is only a Wager (a bet) The derivative investor is betting that the yield is what was projected for it to become. You can either bet that it will meet the yield or you can bet that it will not meet the projection. It is Gambling pure and simple. When these Gamblers (the Banks and Investment Funds) could not pay their losses, this is what caused the crisis.

THIS IS WHAT HAPPENED

“Poor Charlie” had nothing to do with it what so ever.

The Bailout was the People of the United States paying off gambling debts of the rich.

Remember that the program to help low income people obtain a home loan was started during Jimmy Carter's administration. This program worked very well over the next 30 years.

Punp & Dump scheme is what caused the sub-prime market to fail, and that is done intentionally

Here is another thread where I went into detail on the mortgage scam and some back and forth with someone in the industry. And here is an audio that explains how your mortgage really works. Get your deed out and follow along. Warning you will be pissed.

www.freedomsphoenix.com...

"The LAZY self important gimme crowd that hides among the truly poor and deserving of help are the issue as much as the criminal banksters and the feds for allowing it in the first place. That crowd is why benefits and help are at an all time low and not reaching the folks that truly need it. If the PC crowd wants to admit it or not, its true.. the system is completely skewed by this lazy entitled segment... and its huge. "


Yeah...You know how everyone wants to live on $400 a month. I think corporate welfare is a way bigger problem than some "self important" single mother scraping for help anywhere she can get it.

This is who TPTB want us to believe caused it but the truth is this was systematically manufactuered for the enjoyment of TPTB while leading to heartache, negative financial immenency, loss of our homes and livelyhoods.

That is known as something called a "Cover Story" or "Distraction/Diversion Play" as they are what they say. Name says it all. All 3 are employed to distract you and I long enough so that they get their agenda through.

reply to post by TheImmaculateD1


there's been about three or four economic downturns that I've experienced in my lifetime here in the US, while in reality, I believe there's been big economic downturn throughout that whole time....
but, well, in all those times... in all those times, people lost their homes, there were foreclosures, in at least one case, fraud was found in the banking system and people were prosecuted for it....
but never, not once, did it cause whole flipping countries to collapse like this one did Iceland and a few other countries.
they peddled investments around the world that had fraud as their base! the homes were worth what they were valued, the people buying them weren't as credit worthy as the let people to believe, they weren't the grade AAA quality as the raters claimed they were, and then, just to make sure that those investments were not worth much of anything, they destroyed the notes and made sure the trail of ownership never saw the light of day!!!
if there was a family in your neighborhood who was making little bars out of lead, and painting them with a pretty gold paint and pawning them off to everyone in the neighborhood as pure gold bars and well, and they were found to not be, and then this family came around wanting to borrow more money, you you lend it to them??
we have been in the position of being the worlds provider of the world's reserve currency since WW2...but that was based on the faith that american would honor that currency and act responsibly to mamintain it's trustworthiness.....
well, we are more than likely gonna lose that position now.....just like that family that were creating gold out of lead and peddling around the neighborhood would lose much respect in that neighborhood....
and it's gonna hurt!!! most of us have no idea just how much the dollar being used as the reserve currency has benefitted the US!! to blame a bunch of sub-primers for our woes is just glossing over a whole mess of illegalities that should have never happened and is bringing alot of hurt and pain into our lives...while the crooks that committed them is left to go on their way, enjoying the benefits of their crimes!
instead of blaming the poor, who have basically no power to influence much of anything in this country, why aren;t they going after the crooks and coming down on the banking and gov't policies that allowed for this to happen, probably even encouraged it!! because all this has benefitted the ptb and they don't want to go to jail???

There is this world view that appears (to me) deeply welded into the very brains of --many-- Americans, that capitalists are heroes and role models. It resembles, to me, this (1950's era) TV interview with Ayn Rand, where she said people who can't make it very well, of their own accord, "should not be loved". Because those types are wholly at fault. I have seen people in this chat forum write with disdain toward certain people who get their hair and nails done, ya know, the fancy acrylic nails and braided hair. Lots of "code" reference about those who are "lazy". Is there realy such a thing as lazy though, or could illnesses which sap your energy, be a more rational alternative way of looking at that? And don't a lot of angry white people realize that a lot of those with done-up hair, braid each other's hair? I lived in a big city for a long time, I gleaned such. It's pure psyops diversion away from the real problem causers.

reply to post by brokedown


You said it better than I did. Thanks and a star.