Did the Poor Cause The Crisis?

reply to post by Sestias


In part yes poor are somewhat responsible for some of our economic downfall. Afterall it is they who took out loans that were unreasonable. It stupifies me to think why would anyone get a mortgage on a large beautiful home, yes the first 5-7-10 years was interest only payments, indeed low. But that ballon payment lurked at them. They knew it would be payable at a defined date. They did this to themselves. Nlot only did they buy unreasonably high priced homes, they continued with buying large flat screen tv`s new furniture and every thing they could get their "I need it" hands on. But, it is the governments fault also. They set the poor and middle calss up to fall into economic disaster by allowing the loan sharks adn banks to give them loans without screening their eligibility.
Did you know our government allowed middle eastern loan sharks to give these bad loans out? then our american banks bought up all those bad loans in bundle loans without pre screening the loans...so it is a two way fault. american people damned themselves and governmetn set them up to damn themselves.
I know this because I went into real estate during the rush era, I got out without selling to anyone, I saw what was happening adn decided to not be one of the perpetraders of the fall of american poor and middle class.

reply to post by TedHodgson


That is rediculous what you say. The poor were nor forced into gaining loans no one put a gun to their heads, they knew they could not pay..

Originally posted by ~Lucidity
This is a sick twist on it. Wow. Should people maybe have known better? Yes. But you know? For the most part when you buy a home, you rely on everyone from the real estate agent, to the appraisers, to your bank or mortgage company and your closing attorney to be upright, honest and professional. When you have any or all of these people colluding with the crooks who were pushing them? The "poor" person really doesn't stand a chance. Utter hogwash.

They should have known better, absolutely, and they should have realized that a mortgage with payments that were a very large percentage of their income (or needed two incomes and a rental suite to make payments) was not really sustainable.

Blame the banks all you like, but people still took out mortgages, and refinanced when the value and perceived equity in their homes went up, without knowing what they were getting into.

Who gets into a 30 year contract without thoroughly knowing all the terms and conditions?

I had the opportunity for home ownership some time ago, declined due to loan conditions.

It wasn't the "poor" or the Right or the Left who were sending unsolicited credit card applications to my home or endlessly calling to restructure my mortgage. It was various corporations with little interest in the common good, a huge interest in the bottom line and almost zero liability.

reply to post by kosmicjack


Bingo. It was a mass of extremely bad decisions from the banks themselves. Blaming the poor for it is sort of like blaming starving people for world hunger.

reply to post by babybunnies


same with my family, we could had taken a rediculous loan during the push for all americans to own a house outside thier financial means...I did get luckry last year. I found a home extremely cheap, I put down a good downpayment, (took out my savings) went to a locally owned and operated bank, and after weeks of negotiations got the loan i knew was right for our family. We do not have a ballon payment facing us in the near future. We already have alot of equity in it. We was smart.

reply to post by kosmicjack


So, then, they weren't "forcing" you to refinance or take on a new credit card? I assume you didn't accept their offers? If you didn't then why did so many others? Were they forced into a new mortgage or did they just make a poor decision? Should their be any personal responsibility for making bad choices?

reply to post by kosmicjack


Ya it was greedy coirporatations, but did they force you by making you feel life threatened if you didnt take what they was offereing? or was it you who took the offer without reading the fine print? not sure if you fell prey to them so if you didnt sorry for the response.

reply to post by TheWalkingFox


It wasnt the banks fault the poor took out loans they could not pay back. When a poor person who never owned a house suddenly can without question, ya they will do whatever it takes to get into a home.efven if it means future foreclosure because they didnt read the entire contract...it was both sides at fault bansk and the poor...but hey we all know banks are not in it for the little people, at I do and did back when i was offered a loan so large I knew i could never pay it..

reply to post by indianajoe77


Well spoken. Yes there is a personel responsibility to not take something you know is not right.

reply to post by prexparte


Thanks.

Been saying the same thing in thread all day, yet no responses, just more the"big banks are bad " junk.

Originally posted by kosmicjack
It wasn't the "poor" or the Right or the Left who were sending unsolicited credit card applications to my home or endlessly calling to restructure my mortgage. It was various corporations with little interest in the common good, a huge interest in the bottom line and almost zero liability.

Thats part of what I was saying. None of it could have worked unless that segment of those "entitlement poor" (who are not truly poor) wouldnt have bought into it. No one forced them to accept the CC or the bank loans unless they were desiring to live above their means. It took both for it to work. The real losers in the whole thing are the truly deserving poor, disabled, and working poor... and us working stiffs that know from us to our great grandkids will be footing the bill for the entitlement crowd. The responsible poor who we SHOULD be giving a hand up are the ones who will immediately suffer. We're too concerned with the handouts to tell the difference in the 2 types of poor. God forbid someone tell a lazy fool he is NOT entitled to a 200K home if he has been on welfare for 3 generations or the person who has a job himself that would qualify him for a 60K home he can afford rather than that 200K home.

No one can tell me that a working responsible person who is not of that entitlement mindset would EVER take the word of a loan officer, real estate agent, or bank concerning what he or she can actually afford. The banks could press and offer everything under the sun, but it takes a person who thinks he is special and entitled to things he or she has not worked for to make the whole scheme work.

My opinion of course, Mod.. dont beat me..

These same kind of rightwingers are always trashing on the Mexican illegal aliens working in this country, but notice, when do they ever instead go after the Mexican and US 'Leadership' and the businesses who keep hiring those folks.

reply to post by simone50m

This is on topic because.........

Oh, that's right. Anyone that might blame both sides and not just the big, bad, banks is an evil right-winger.

That's how it ties into the foreclosure issue. I forgot this was a yeah-poor-people-boo-the-banks-thread.

Originally posted by indianajoe77
reply to post by simone50m

 

This is on topic because.........

Oh, that's right. Anyone that might blame both sides and not just the big, bad, banks is an evil right-winger.

That's how it ties into the foreclosure issue. I forgot this was a yeah-poor-people-boo-the-banks-thread.

I think I too just got called a right-winger..

Hey, I guess its some folks nature to cry victim so they can feel absolved of their participation of the evil bank's scheme.

reply to post by babybunnies


I still stand by my original statement, which really included most of yours. Should people have known better? Yes. Maybe. But it's a fuzzy line. Again, we pay people a lot of money for their advice and process when we buy our homes. With mortgages, a large part of the problem was inflated appraisals, where the appraisers were in collusion with the broker and/or lender.

Also, the language of the paperwork is simply opt comprehensible by the average person. Only those who deal with it daily really understand it (broker or attorney), and I'm not even all that sure about them. I'm betting the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau wouldn't be simplifying and reforming all the credit and mortgage paperwork if this wasn't a very big issue. Or maybe they would be. Who knows. The lenders sure seem to be worried about it. Big Lenders May Lose With Simpler Mortgage Disclosure

Originally posted by TedHodgson
reply to post by Sestias

 

No, the rich caused the crisis by implementing the monetary system in the first place

The poor are just those that suffer in a flawed system that was bought upon them whether they wished it or not.

Agreed they are just the scape goats to deflect attention from the fraud perpetrated in mortgages every day.

The big secret is no money is ever loaned in the mortgage scam. The Promissory note is what pays for the house in a debt based monetary system. The banks know this and they also know most people have no idea how this works so they scam the person into believing they got a loan they need to pay back. When the funds were created on the spot by the supposed buyer.

They got even more greedy using this scam knowing the funds come from the buyer and they get to sell the note and make double the money etc. so they went hog wild in creating these money from nothing scam mortgages and are now blaming it on the poor and ignorant who operate under the illusion there is any money in the system and that they were actually loaned some money they must pay back.

They will get away with it too because most still believe we use money instead of debt notes or promissory notes. Promissory notes for fake mortgages are the main source of currency in our system. Federal Reserve notes (what everyone incorrectly calls dollars) are just the petty cash of the system. They don't have to have printing presses for promissory fake mortgage notes, they can create them at will on the spot, that is how they inflated the real estate market to infinity, and why it is deflating now. Money from nothing is returning to whence it came; nothing!

So no it is not the poor guys fault trying to get himself a nice place to live and raise his family, it is the entire fraudulent system created by the banksters and given a monopoly on the monetary system by the politicians whom they own.

That is why the new congress will not change a thing and perpetuate the same BS that got us here, and will continue to drive us into oblivion until the whole system crashes and burns. That is the only place it can go there is no turning it around now.

I have never tried to get a house (or any thing else) that I could not afford with the actual funds in my checking account. But that home loan scheme stuff reminds me of those predatory pay day loan stores, which became so out of control that my state had to crack down on their unfettered capitalism.
findarticles.com...
You may enjoy denouncing those of lesser means. But they are deliberately maliciously ---targeted---.
www.businessweek.com...

Originally posted by prexparte
reply to post by TheWalkingFox

 

It wasnt the banks fault the poor took out loans they could not pay back.

Banks are experts in investment, lending, accounting, etc. It's reasonable to assume that the banks should have a complete understanding of risk. Far more than the average mortgage consumer.

If banks have the money and banks decide to lend the money, then who should bear the most responsibility if banks lose the money?

But I'll throw you bone and say that the responsibility does cut both ways, people need to have personal responsibility. However, it can also be argued that banks were making money two ways as well. One way if the borrower maintained the mortgage and another if they were a risky bet. In my mind that just supports the notion that the banks had little interest in vetting loan applicants.

www.publicintegrity.org...

Several state laws included the assignee liability provisions, but were preempted by federal regulators. If those provisions had stayed in the law, investors might have been more attentive to the questionable actions of lenders and brokers. When investors are responsible for abuses in the loans they buy, Keest said, “they have some skin in the game,” and are more likely to closely scrutinize the loans in a securitized pool. Investors might have noticed sooner that the subprime loans they were gobbling up were going bad, fast.

As it was, the demand for securities backed by subprime loans was insatiable.

“The secondary market, it was Jabba the Hutt — ‘feed me, feed me,’” Keest said. It was a “two-demand market,” she said, with borrowers seeking credit on one side, and investors clamoring for securities on the other.

And no, I haven't been on the ugly side of this mess - fortunately - but I did have to navigate the sleazy landscape filled with realtors, appraisers, loan officers, mortgage companies and credit card companies that were bottom feeders in this predatory, insatiable, cannibalistic game.

if the initial payment for that house was less than the rent to obtain suitable housing of and adequate size, well....
I can see why the poor got sucked in,......now what about the rest of the people out there. I've seen some pretty nice house, expensive houses up for foreclosure sale, and well, even at interest only rates, and such, I don't think the poor could have afforded these home! it wasn't the poor that bought them!!!

and well, if it was just the banks losing the money on all the mortgages, well.....the money that our gov't gave them, I believe, far exceeded that amount that was owed, seems to me, if it was just that little subprime market that triggered it, more than enough money has been thrown at it to make up for the losses the banks and investors had incurred. so, why are we still having the problems why are 50 or so attorney generals investing the banks, and their foreclosure processes why did the bank have to resort to fraud just to go through the foreclosure process? why are the banks being forced to buy these securities back? and well, how can four different servicers, all try to foreclose on the same house?

a few subprimers couldn't create this chaos!! the bankers, I heard from someone who actually rubs elbows with these guys, actually believe this, it's all those people not paying on their loans that is the problem. but, well.....if it wasn't for all those people not paying their debts, we would have never learned of all the fraud that they were involved in. and well, that is what they are ticked off about....they didn't pay their bills and the scam blew up in the banker's face! as long as we all paid our bills, the thing would have kept chugging along they think, just like any good ponzi scheme.