Is Black Metal Evil?

I'll always remember an old man's first hand account of a near death experience in which he claimed to have been in hell or a hellish realm in which he says he saw many giant spiders playing heavy metal sounds...probably death metal.

reply to post by thisisnotaname


That would make for an awesome video concept.....

Hmmmm.....

Wish I knew how to program CGI!

reply to post by sixswornsermon


See, thats what i dont get. This glorification of evil, and darkness...while ignoring the accompanying suffering.

how many people in the midst of such suffering, gripped by a stark emotional content, will think "gee this is great..well worth my admiration for it"...If that man did percieve a hell filled with what we would call heavy metal; that is apt. The spiritual world is known by us through symbol and equivalence between concepts and images. That music would be the anthem of hell. But that man, although you make light of it, was probably in the most interminable sufferring; shame and agony. Its idiotic to respond to that with 'oh. that would be an awesome music video concept'. It probably would be, but it is incredibly malicious and irreverant to the truth of the matter.

Sufferring is horrible. End. point. Unfortunately, satanists, whose souls probably derive from whats called kabbalistically, from the 'Sitra Achra" - the other side, are composed of that very property. Evil, you probably think has a lasting existence, yet its clearly understood that evil is the spiritual example of a leech; a virus. It can only live by leeching to a host, and live through that host. Hence demons, and occult rites that seek to "use" them, when in truth its you they are using.

Its not that im ignorant of satanic philosophy; or the gnostic manichean dualism which underlies it. I just think it is STUPID. Dumb and self defeating, and it will by necessity result in your horrific demise when the wheel reaches full circle.

Is there seiously nothing more in your estimation, than this? So the Jews, even if they are right in their conception of G-d, with their optimism, should be dealt the harshest punishment because you hate yuor life; life in general, so much so that you worship the chaotic principle that destroys it? (this is what i meant by 'worshipping death'..a Dionysian type attitutude)

Im just commenting about this whole culture, which i find fascinating yet incredibly disturbing. Emotion is THE form of control of the New World Order. People get lost in emotion and take their brain along for the ride..which serves no other purpose than to justify the emotions, and beliefs generated by them.

Originally posted by Time2Think
I'm not really sure why.. but this is one of my favorite topics on the boards right now. It seems like something so simple, yet if you really stop and think about it you can twist it so many different ways... going into all sorts of different areas.

You are very correct, such a simple topic that can be thought about in many ways, which is one of the reasons that I made the OP... There are concepts as, the moral arguments behind some of the lyrics used, The notes and scales which are often used used to be banned by the church I can't remember the name exactly but the christian church thought that it invited dark/evil entities into a person's life and not to mention that it just sounds evil as! You can get into the argument of what defines evil, as I think that is an important question that needs to be thought about and disscused in order to begin understanding the simple question that was originally askedm is black metal evil?

Also there is a meta-physical discussion that can be had too, do certain notes/frequencies amplify different energies? I think that they do, harmonic resonance is a well known fact and even architects have to think about it when designing building bridges and other structures as they can literally shake themselves apart if the natural frequency resonates and in turn gets amplified. So if frequencies can do that through harmonic resonance, I am quite sure they can act as amplifiers of other energies (such as mood states, as it is nothing more than an electrical frequency in the brain).

Very cool topic, I'll enjoy reading it over the next few days at least.

I'm glad that you like it and I look forward to discussing the ideas that I have brought up

reply to post by sixswornsermon

I disagree with your premise that music can regulate and dictate emotion, beliefs and thoughts. I see it as bring more a reflection of our feelings at the time. I do alot of different types of music. Some happy, some not so much. I suppose it's reflective of the duality of our spirits, and our range of emotions. I am not scared to express both.

So, naturally, than.. those who dont express both sides of their inclinations, are afraid to? Or maybe theyre thoughtful, and courageously suppress the expression of the negative, and damaging, in favor of the

Gnosticism is the EASIEST most convenient philosophy in the world. Because it is so easy, and requires little to no effort; and results in egomania, it is clearly wrong. The bible makes reference to this on many occassions in the snake, cain, pharoah, amalek.... The worlds elites are just these sort of people.

And as for music not regulating emotion.. I dont think that can be logically argued. Music underminds intellect, and therefore goes straight to the emotional, feeling side of consciousness. If people only understood what music actually does, and what it will inevitably lead to, they would be much more careful to select what music they gravitate to. Notice i say gravitate to. You seem to imagine that feeling is more internal than intellect. Well, thats obviously not true, although it is a dogma of modern psychology. Intellect should govern emotion, and not all emotion is good, and thus the reason why are intellect has the unique ability to choose some things, and reject others. No animal manifests this. What an animal yearns for, it goes after; whether or not it is good for them or not (for instance my dog regularly eats wood because she likes the flavor and chewing on it. A few hours later, she violently throws it up. Animals are stupid. Human nature is NOT the nature we percieve in the outside world,and so the typical pagan creed of nature worship is idiotic nonsense).

Again, I wish to write about darker subjects, because it is fascinating to me.

I understand that it fascinates you. The problem is it leaves those who listen to it, with certain types of feelings. Right now in times of ease and excess, it sits latent in the back of their minds, and what manifests is the flip side of such music. Positive feelings of 'rock and roll', of heavy, spontaneous individualism. but when things go awr, and they will, these sorts of people are gonna have subconscious' filled with heavy and chaotic sounds, and it;'ll burst into consciousness and result in a real chaotic train of behavior. Insanity? Criminality?

This is just a case of like attracting like. The wheel goes full circle and this is what happens. This is why these monsters in power have 1/3rd of the public and psychotropic drugs and full of TV shows, Saw movies, death metal, rap, clubbing etc. Each has their own poison, but i would probably say the most nefarious is death metal.

The most idiotic combination ever, in anything, is christianity with this music. Im not a christian, so i really dont care to defend it, but its basic patriarchial system of respect for parents, and elders, patience, charity, is manifold times undermined by this sort of music. I know there will be nayserys who think these sort of influences arent immutable. That may be so, but it does have a pretty strong subconscious influence.

Does music form culture, or does culture form music? Because most kids in highschool who 'gravitate' to a certain music, than engage a particular culture. Whatever the culture it ultimately is, they all fall under "moral relativism". Exactly the way the elites want things.

reply to post by dontreally

See, thats what i dont get. This glorification of evil, and darkness...while ignoring the accompanying suffering.

It's an expression of emotion, just like any other... you get most mainstream music writing songs about love, money, fame blah blah blah. Black metal is just one way of expressing some of the darker emotions, to deny these emotions would be to supress your true nature, to become spiritual IMO you have to experience, this can come in MANY forms, you cannot deny or supress something simply because a religious dogma says that it is a sin.

A lot of the lyrics used in Black Metal is born OUT of suffering, so this is not ignoring the suffering of these darker subjects that get written about but a direct expression of that suffering, be it mental, spiritually or physically.

Sufferring is horrible. End. point. Unfortunately, satanists, whose souls probably derive from whats called kabbalistically, from the 'Sitra Achra" - the other side, are composed of that very property. Evil, you probably think has a lasting existence, yet its clearly understood that evil is the spiritual example of a leech; a virus. It can only live by leeching to a host, and live through that host. Hence demons, and occult rites that seek to "use" them, when in truth its you they are using.

Yes suffering is horrible, on that we agree... but that is were our agreement ends. I am a proud Satanist and our souls are not composed of the evil you speak of, that is nothing more than a very narrowminded view and of dogmatic thought. Satanists reject God, does the God in the christian bible sound like a just and fair deity? No... to me he sounds like a sadist, a sick deity that likes to smite the unbelievers and condemn them to an ever;asting hell in the lake of fire! That doesn't sound like the actions of a loving God to me!

Heaven and Hell are nothing more than states of mind, if you think your going to hell you will condemn yourelf to such an existance, but if you are happy with how you have lived your life then you will be in a heaven of your own making, thoughts manifest and that is also how I believe it to be on the higher astral plains, you don't need an "all powerfull" being to do that for you, I see God as an imposter.

reply to post by Q2IN2Y


I disagree.
Personally I like many forms of music. It all depends on my mood you see. So if I'm feeling a little angry already and like I could punch someone then I find nothing better or more therapeutic than blasting some Death metal whilst screaming along and throwing my arms around. Why? Because it gets all the stress out! Without having to lose it with an actual person.
It doesn't CAUSE evil doings. It prevents them.

Originally posted by ScorpioRising
So if I'm feeling a little angry already and like I could punch someone then I find nothing better or more therapeutic than blasting some Death metal whilst screaming along and throwing my arms around. Why? Because it gets all the stress out! Without having to lose it with an actual person.
It doesn't CAUSE evil doings. It prevents them.

I completely agree with you, music like Black Metal and Death Metal are great outlets for anger, generally people repress a lot of anger and stress and those who have a weak resolve will often snap, so to have a means of letting this anger and hatred out, in what I see in a positive way is brilliant.

A lot of people don't get it, why bands write such dark lyrics but it's an expression for them and a means emotional release for the people who listen to it.

reply to post by dontreally


"See, thats what i dont get. This glorification of evil, and darkness...while ignoring the accompanying suffering."

Personally I do not wish anybody to suffer. Although I may write about suffering sometimes, it fits the nature of the subject matter. I certainly do not think suffering is "neat". This is my dark project with dark subject matter.

"how many people in the midst of such suffering, gripped by a stark emotional content, will think "gee this is great..well worth my admiration for it"...If that man did percieve a hell filled with what we would call heavy metal; that is apt. The spiritual world is known by us through symbol and equivalence between concepts and images. That music would be the anthem of hell. But that man, although you make light of it, was probably in the most interminable sufferring; shame and agony. Its idiotic to respond to that with 'oh. that would be an awesome music video concept'. It probably would be, but it is incredibly malicious and irreverant to the truth of the matter."

I agree, my levity was perhaps uncalled for. I apologize.

"Sufferring is horrible. End. point. Unfortunately, satanists, whose souls probably derive from whats called kabbalistically, from the 'Sitra Achra" - the other side, are composed of that very property. Evil, you probably think has a lasting existence, yet its clearly understood that evil is the spiritual example of a leech; a virus. It can only live by leeching to a host, and live through that host. Hence demons, and occult rites that seek to "use" them, when in truth its you they are using."

Its not that im ignorant of satanic philosophy; or the gnostic manichean dualism which underlies it. I just think it is STUPID. Dumb and self defeating, and it will by necessity result in your horrific demise when the wheel reaches full circle."

I'm not a Satanist. I am not religious at all. I don't believe in demons, fairies or unicorns. In my estimation (read IMHO), the concept of evil is a man made construct, and purely subjective. I certainly do not begrudge anybody their beliefs however.

"Is there seiously nothing more in your estimation, than this? So the Jews, even if they are right in their conception of G-d, with their optimism, should be dealt the harshest punishment because you hate yuor life; life in general, so much so that you worship the chaotic principle that destroys it? (this is what i meant by 'worshipping death'..a Dionysian type attitutude)"

This is out of left field. I'm not sure where you are going with this one.

"Im just commenting about this whole culture, which i find fascinating yet incredibly disturbing. Emotion is THE form of control of the New World Order. People get lost in emotion and take their brain along for the ride..which serves no other purpose than to justify the emotions, and beliefs generated by them. "

The culture is fascinating, and disturbing. So is life at times. I'm not sure where NWO comes into a discussion of black metal, but I do believe that if you are of sound mind and body, you are able to choose what actions you make in this life. In other words, no song will ever commit me to an action involuntarily. For those who cannot control themselves, the issue lies deeper than what music they listen to. I feel zero responsibility for someone else's sick mind.

reply to post by dontreally


"So, naturally, than.. those who dont express both sides of their inclinations, are afraid to? Or maybe theyre thoughtful, and courageously suppress the expression of the negative, and damaging, in favor of the"

Perhaps that is the case. Humanity contains a range of emotion. I choose to experience all. Sometimes we don't even have a choice in the matter, do we? This does not mean that I cause any ills upon others however.

"Gnosticism is the EASIEST most convenient philosophy in the world. Because it is so easy, and requires little to no effort; and results in egomania, it is clearly wrong. The bible makes reference to this on many occassions in the snake, cain, pharoah, amalek.... The worlds elites are just these sort of people."

I'm not sure where you are going with this statement .

"And as for music not regulating emotion.. I dont think that can be logically argued. Music underminds intellect, and therefore goes straight to the emotional, feeling side of consciousness. If people only understood what music actually does, and what it will inevitably lead to, they would be much more careful to select what music they gravitate to. Notice i say gravitate to. You seem to imagine that feeling is more internal than intellect. Well, thats obviously not true, although it is a dogma of modern psychology. Intellect should govern emotion, and not all emotion is good, and thus the reason why are intellect has the unique ability to choose some things, and reject others. No animal manifests this. What an animal yearns for, it goes after; whether or not it is good for them or not (for instance my dog regularly eats wood because she likes the flavor and chewing on it. A few hours later, she violently throws it up. Animals are stupid. Human nature is NOT the nature we percieve in the outside world,and so the typical pagan creed of nature worship is idiotic nonsense)."

Well, music has never made me want to throw up before, with the exception of possibly the junk playing on VH1. I will agree to an extent that music can influence emotion, but regulate to me seems the wrong concept. Are you suggesting that music can overide a persons intellect to the degree that they would commit an action that is either out of character, or involuntary?


Again, I wish to write about darker subjects, because it is fascinating to me.



"I understand that it fascinates you. The problem is it leaves those who listen to it, with certain types of feelings. Right now in times of ease and excess, it sits latent in the back of their minds, and what manifests is the flip side of such music. Positive feelings of 'rock and roll', of heavy, spontaneous individualism. but when things go awr, and they will, these sorts of people are gonna have subconscious' filled with heavy and chaotic sounds, and it;'ll burst into consciousness and result in a real chaotic train of behavior. Insanity? Criminality?"

This seems like a cop out. "The music made me do it". I'm sorry, I cannot see this happening unless a person already has a predisposition for instanity and/or criminality.

To you, my music may impart negative feelings, but to me, it imparts positive feelings to me. A type of music you may like may make me want to crawl up the wall, and therefore be a negative experience to me. It's a damn good thing that there is variety in life.

"This is just a case of like attracting like. The wheel goes full circle and this is what happens. This is why these monsters in power have 1/3rd of the public and psychotropic drugs and full of TV shows, Saw movies, death metal, rap, clubbing etc. Each has their own poison, but i would probably say the most nefarious is death metal."

Personally, I do not watch Saw movies because they are overdone and quite frankly disgusting to me. I don't want to see overt violence and blood and guts. Have I before? Yes. I choose not to. Have I listened to Cannibal Corpse? Yes. They are awesome musicians, but I would not wear their T shirt, because I do not identify with their message personally.

The other items that you relate to each other seem to be handpicked items from your basket of dislikes. Fair enough. I don't like rap either. Is it because it's part of a "nefarious" plan to subvert the public in conjunction with tv and drugs?

Well...........maybe.....=D

Worst case scenario you are putting the puzzle pieces together to fit your agenda, the way that you see fit.

"The most idiotic combination ever, in anything, is christianity with this music. Im not a christian, so i really dont care to defend it, but its basic patriarchial system of respect for parents, and elders, patience, charity, is manifold times undermined by this sort of music. I know there will be nayserys who think these sort of influences arent immutable. That may be so, but it does have a pretty strong subconscious influence."

I disagree. It is only a form of music, among many others, and, again, it is my belief that it is the intent that matters, not the medium. You know what also undermines respect for parents etc? Teenage rebellion! Unfortunately, this cannot be avoided, as it is a normal part of the process towards reaching adult hood. Blaming music, or a certain genre for these ills is a faulire in logic.

Do you remember when Elvis was too hot for tv? Or when the Beatles were accused of subverting the nations youth? I wonder what you think of these artists......

Strong morals come from parents. Not from religion, the state, or God. We have to accept that there will be some kids who fail, make bad decisions, or otherwise blow it. Part of life.

"Does music form culture, or does culture form music? Because most kids in highschool who 'gravitate' to a certain music, than engage a particular culture. Whatever the culture it ultimately is, they all fall under "moral relativism". Exactly the way the elites want things."

I would say a bit of both. Those who gravitate to any image, that cannot think for themselves, deserve my pity for their weak minds, but I would not take responsbility personally unless I was that kids parent. A culture does not fall under moral relativism, weak minded people do until they are instructed otherwise. Either by lifes hard lessons, or somebody who cares. And even then, some refuse to listen to the voice inside themselves.

I'm curious. What belief system do you subscribe to? The idea / concept of moral relativism is a concept that is usually villified by the devout, despite the obvious differences in culture throughout the world over.

If you feel if it an infringement for me to inquire, then please accept my apologies in advance.

This is ridiculous neither the music or the creator is evil... Just overly self conscious people trying to keep up a look for themselves. It should not be categorized to the music or the creator, just a messed up group of people who happened to like metal

Originally posted by gmacousins
This is ridiculous neither the music or the creator is evil... Just overly self conscious people trying to keep up a look for themselves. It should not be categorized to the music or the creator, just a messed up group of people who happened to like metal

I have to disagree with you here, your logic is somewhat flawed

Ok, say a murderer creates some black metal... oh wait that already happened!

No but seriously, I think you have to look a little deeper on this one rather than the face value question, Is Black Metal Evil? In itself is a simple enough question you would think that a simple yes or no answer would suffice, but no IMO it simply does not.

It's a simple question with a deeper meaning and sub questions within it...

Well i tell you what.... A good pit and some metal is a great way to release some pent up aggression. When I can't get that a good session on the heavy bag blasting some metal works as well. People that ignore and suppress the "negative emotions" are the ones that snap and beat the crap out of their wife once a year. Or when they just can't take it anymore, go to the job they were fired from and open fire. It is not healthy at all to keep your "negative emotions" bottled up until you burst. Better to find a healthy way to get rid of it, like headbanging, a pit, a good workout etc. Expressing emotions is human, even the "negative emotions".

Black Metal is just as evil as money is .
Seriously , an object or concept is demonised or labelled evil only because of human tendencies and attitude towards the said concept or object .

Originally posted by WeRpeons
I personally don't like it because it does sound like it's evil.

A lot of the bands don't dispute it. But it's the music that doesn't sound evil you have to keep an eye on.

reply to post by NuclearPaul


If we wish to speak of a musical outworking of emotion, being dangerous or evil, I would point the members toward Hiphop, and gangster rap. Objectification of women, obsession with fame and money and drugs, guns and blood in all but a few tracks per album. That sort of thing.
Im sure if you went and really looked at the history of Black Metal, and then looked at the history of gangster rap, you would see far more depravity, wrongdoing, blood letting, ritualism and godlessness in that musical genre. In fact, there is much more actual EVIDENCE of gangster raps dangerous and malignant influence. Whoring, drug dealing, protection, theft,and murder all feature in gangster rap lyrics, and some even recommend to the listener to get involved, wear the colours, go join a gang and get blooded.
If you look at the amount of people on murder charges in the western civilisation which most absorbs these genres, then perhaps you would see clearly, that gangster rap is a feature in far more actual crime, and actual evil doing , than Black Metal is.
The only reason that Black Metal is feared and repulsive to some, is that they do not understand it very well. I often giggle at this myself, since it often means that the person who is listening to the music, has not understood it, and often the person who cannot abide it, is into gangster rap and what have you. This means that not only has the person not listened to the Metal properly, but neither have they listened to thier own preffered choice of music properly. Either that , or they are just so frightened by the awesome majesty of Black Metals powerful riffs and thundering bass beats, that they merely assume danger where there is only mastery .
Personaly , I believe that even if Black Metal could alone, summon up the legions of hell, I would rather deal with that (and trust me, it would be dealt with), than deal with an army of gangsters in big black SUVS, throwing 9mm rounds in all directions, cursing for the hell of it, and smoking heaps of crack.

In my opinion, all forms of music (including Black-Metal) are very powerful emotive tools or outlets as people have described in this thread.

Many people use certain lyrics for example to inspire greatness, while others might use it to justify their current lifestyles.
This is true in most genres, whether it be rap/hip-hop, pop, black metal etc.
[In hip-hop, a band like Dead Prez is completely different to DMX with respect to lyrical content or musical outlook.]

It is exactly the same in the case of Black Metal. Some bands are 'hellbent' on being outcasts and the embracing the negatives in life, while other bands aren't.

Personally, I play in a black metal band and draw inspiration from bands of all genre's which share similar ideals to me, and those that i dont agree with, i just sit back and enjoy the music for what it is: A group of people getting together to create something unique that could never be re-produced.

That to me, is the joy of music. Never evil, never good, but always thought-provoking and emotive.
All is in the eye of the beholder

My 2c

In my mind this can be approached from two angles.

A Judeo-Christian perapective,or a moral relative/gnostic perspective.

The former will insist that distinctions exist on a moral level, between literally everything; things thought, said and done; foods, clothing, styles of music etc

Everything is a reflection of the persons inner nature. Judaism roots everything back to that most ancient and primal of human faculties; free will. Because we have the innate ability to choose, that implies an ability to make distinctions between one thing and another.

Obviously, harming others is wrong. That is what would be described as evil. It separates one from a proper attitude towards other humans which we know all too well what thats like.

Our own nature impels us to make distinctions, and to see some things as evil, and others as good, and righteous. In the case of black metal, its melody conduces to evil, destruction and all around chaos. Hence the association of most of these styles of music with satanism, or gnosticism. It is initself an expression of a dark, destructive tendency that can only be described as suicidal, and bad; yet indulged in for insane and irrational reason.

The music speaks for itself. If it wont lead to evil actions, the music itself is negative, and promotes egotism. Or moreso, those who feel the need to give expression to this aspect are egotists who find exploring the negative, destructive and shameful, interesting. Despite its sheer stupidity.

There are those who consider war, and the results of it, as being an important element to human nature. While i agree that war can sometimes be necessary, the prevailing view in the darker, more powerful circles is that war is integral regardless. In ones own life, or in society at large, conflict, aggression, and egotism are requisites that give meaning to their opposites, peace, tranquility and selflessness. Such assumptions - which are completely false - create things like the holocaust. The leaders that be stood by knowing, and having the power to help. But not doing so because the Jews had to sacrificed to this dark god, whom Jung felt was so intrinsic to mans nature. No philosophy which tolerates and infact creates these sort of conditions can be true. It is only narcissistic nonsense. Even their kindnesses lack meaning when fueled by such decadent self interest.

So, black metal is black, and dark, and only exists in a culture on the verge of destruction. Post Modernism has set in, and black metal is an expression of it. 30 years from now this genre will be dead, along with those who find it fascinating.

reply to post by dontreally


Excuse me, but Im 25 years of age, in prime physical condition, and Christian. I listen to Black Metal, thrash metal, death metal and tech metal and I love it all . Hard. Often all night long!
I have no medical defects and I do not think Im going to be dead in thirty years. There is NOTHING wrong with having an appreciation for music that doesnt lie to you about its intentions, nor is there anything wrong with me enjoying the utterly stupendous skill of the artisans that create the sounds I love. If anything my faith is stronger for my enjoyment of Black Metal. Jesus mixed with the sinners, I like the mixes of the sinners. Whats the problem?
In all seriousness, Black Metal causes alot less trouble than rap does, and a hell of a lot less than country music... you know the kind... the kind that fat fella plays in the cab of his truck in American History X (and if anyones wondering, yeah I wanted to kill all the white guys in that film, but only cause the characters were nazis... I can be forgiven right?).
By the way, were you aware that there are Christian Black Metal bands as well ? www.youtube.com...
Dontreally , the fact is that if you think theres a problem with Black Metal then the real problem is not the metal, but your fear of it, and what you falsely believe it represents. Music , like all artistic media, is what YOU personaly make of it, and if deamons come for you when you hear it, then they are YOUR deamons, not mine, and not the composers. Deal with your deamons on your own time, but dont make them everyone elses problem!

reply to post by TrueBrit


I dont have problem with demons, or my own inner demons for that matter.

Also, i dont mean to say that only those who like black metal will die. Its a fair assumption to look at the world the way it is today - at this juncture, and predict that the next 10-20 years especially will be very much different from what weve enjoyed the last 60+ years.

Of course i dont know definitively, but i am pretty sure that this culture and what sustains it is dying, and a new one forming.

I understand your reasons for liking black metal, however, your unable to look at this objectively. Why should salvation, love, and happiness, be expressed through loud screaming, and drum banging?

That is a complete distortion of the consonance between ideas - thoughts and feelings - and their expression. If for instance i love someone, would i yell at them? Or would i speak gently with them? I would say one who is being yelled at, in a "loving way" would still be left with a confused impression, because true love, and divinely inspired love is expressed in a vessel that resembles the quality that creates it.

Youre confused, and this music infact is designed to confuse those unfortunate christians who think metal can give expression to their relationship with G-d, which it obviously cant. The lyrics say one thing, yet the tone, and melody of the music says something completely different.