Humans are naturally plant-eaters

reply to post by TheDebunkMachine


That's not logical at all. I can make the choice not to eat meat, and I can live pretty well doing so. Animals can't make conscious choices and carnivores can't survive without eating meat.

So no, I don't think we should kill all predators.

Also I don't think killing animals for food is absolutely morally wrong. I mostly have a problem with the way the meat industry came to be today.

I would still not eat meat that's humanely farmed, but I am not opposed to that, in fact, I think it would be a very good idea.

Originally posted by Wallachian
reply to post by TheDebunkMachine

 

That's not logical at all. I can make the choice not to eat meat, and I can live pretty well doing so. Animals can't make conscious choices and carnivores can't survive without eating meat.

So no, I don't think we should kill all predators.

U said it...

Originally posted by Wallachian
reply to post by TheDebunkMachine

 

That's not logical at all. I can make the choice not to eat meat, and I can live pretty well doing so. Animals can't make conscious choices and carnivores can't survive without eating meat.

So no, I don't think we should kill all predators.

Obviously someone missed my point, you said that because neanderthals cannibalized we should too, because according to me our ancestors were omnivorous, but those are unrelated and irrelevant, so i said in parody of you, that since killing animals is bad, and predators kill animals, we should get rid of predators. Humans are naturally omnivores, a quick glance at us shows that we are built for group hunting/scavenging, but also foraging, i couldnt care less if you decide to be a vegetarian, but when people like you start bringing up your false facts and evidence to try and influence others to also be vegetarian, and potentially put their health at risk, well that's where i draw the line.

reply to post by TheDebunkMachine


How are those unrelated and irrelevant? You said our ancestors ate meat so we should eat it too, I said our ancestors did many things we don't do anymore. We came a long long way from Homo ergaster.

If you do things right, people who eat meat and people who don't eat meat can both be healthy. For anyone putting down vegetarianism, saying they are unhealthy, guess what? Only the ones who don't know what their doing are unhealthy. I am personally a vegetarian. Meat made me feel sluggish and have less energy and since converting I have been more energetic and heal from workouts quicker. A common question for vegetarians is "How do you get your protein?". It's obvious how dull people are when they equate that meat = protein, period. Lots of meats also = cholesterol, bad fats, slow digestion. There are lots of vegetables with protein, plus egg whites and cheese and such. You see, most meat eaters consume much more protein than required. Vegetarians who know what they're doing have a much lower risk for any sort of heart disease, digestive problems of any sort, obesity and so on. Now, please realize that there is a ton of junk out there which isn't meat so being a vegetarian doesn't guarentee health just as eating meat doesn't mean strength or muscles.

Also, I saw someone compare an omnivores diet with a bears diet. Bears are indeed omnivores, but why should we look at a bears diet when we are more closely related to chimps/monkeys, we are essentially primates, not just mammals. Chimps and monkeys will indeed eat animals, but very rarely, they eat them when they haven't got what they usually would eat. Just as a man on an island would eat unknown berry's and strange creatures, a man in a normal environment will eat what they would usually. I don't know about you, but I've never seen a chimp killing and eating a cow or a chicken or so on. So, can we eat animals? Well of course we can, you can eat anything you can fit in your mouth. The question isn't what can we eat and what can we get by with, but what is best for our system? Again, people who eat meat and do it the right way, will do just fine just as vegetarians.

Are we naturally plant-eaters? I don't know. What I do know is our systems seem to function better with much more plant and much less animal consumption. Protein isn't what you have to watch out for, it's vitamin B-12. That vitamin in itself shows us that man is meant to consume some animal life since B-12 is 99% derived from animal products. Vegetarians who know what they're doing eat cheese, drink milk, eat yogurt, eat egg whites and such to get B-12. It's a balance, but truly people who eat less meat and more vegies tend to find their body functioning better and them feeling better. Again, there are plenty who have no idea what they're doing, but happily people like myself do.

Until next time,

TheGoodDoctor

reply to post by Vandalour

Then why are our teeth not made like this?

Dental Anatomy of Ruminants

Ruminants such as cattle, sheep and goats are herbivores with a unique digestive anatomy. A prominent feature of ruminant dental anatomy is that they lack upper incisors, having instead a "dental pad", as shown in the image to the right of a goat.

Teeth II: Herbivores

Mammals that tend to be more omnivorous, such as pigs, bears, primates (including humans) and some rodents, have lower-crowned teeth with cusps that form separate, rounded hillocks called bunodont teeth. The bunodont tooth is used more for crushing food and some grinding, and allows an animal to have a more varied diet. You notice that humans have bunodont dentition; this allows us to eat a variety of foods, fruits, vegetables, grains, meat and junk food.

Although i do not agree with vegetarianism, i can agree that it is 100x healthier than veganism.

reply to post by Vandalour


Maybe a little research is in order before posting topic and making incorrect statements?

Chimps do eat meat

Originally posted by TheDebunkMachine
Although i do not agree with vegetarianism, i can agree that it is 100x healthier than veganism.

What do you base that assertion on?

Originally posted by PuterMan
reply to post by Vandalour

 

Maybe a little research is in order before posting topic and making incorrect statements?

Chimps do eat meat

edit on 21/1/2011 by PuterMan because: (no reason given)

I never said they did not...

Carnivorous Diet of Chimpanzee

Chimpanzee diet also consists of meat as these primates tend to hunt small monkeys and baby mammals. It is mostly the male chimpanzees that hunt for meat more than the females. However, meat consists of only 5% of the chimpanzee diet.. 5%

www.buzzle.com...

People are addicted to meat, they don't know any better. Only when they actually try new diets that they open up to these concepts. Vegetarianism is abit of a joke because it still partakes in eating fish flesh and eggs.

I challenge anyone to try a 30day raw fruit and veg diet and then come back and preach about ancestors and things that don't matter. So people made the same mistakes in the past, what does that prove?

There are so many myths and misinfo out there because the profit industry want you eating meat, they want you unhealthy, they want you in hospitals and popping pills. They want you to stay asleep, they want you productive, they want you to die younger. You need to wake up and try alternate ways of living.

You think cows need to eat meat to get big? Hmm so we need to eat cows because...

Originally posted by nightrun
People are addicted to meat, they don't know any better. Only when they actually try new diets that they open up to these concepts. Vegetarianism is abit of a joke because it still partakes in eating fish flesh and eggs.

I challenge anyone to try a 30day raw fruit and veg diet and then come back and preach about ancestors and things that don't matter. So people made the same mistakes in the past, what does that prove?

There are so many myths and misinfo out there because the profit industry want you eating meat, they want you unhealthy, they want you in hospitals and popping pills. They want you to stay asleep, they want you productive, they want you to die younger. You need to wake up and try alternate ways of living.

You think cows need to eat meat to get big? Hmm so we need to eat cows because...

I have done that, i didn't feel that different other than i was a bit less energetic, and if you look at human anatomy, just even at our teeth, you will see we are built as omnivores, and trust me buddy i have embraced alternate ways of living.

Originally posted by nightrun
People are addicted to meat, they don't know any better. Only when they actually try new diets that they open up to these concepts. Vegetarianism is abit of a joke because it still partakes in eating fish flesh and eggs.

I challenge anyone to try a 30day raw fruit and veg diet and then come back and preach about ancestors and things that don't matter. So people made the same mistakes in the past, what does that prove?

There are so many myths and misinfo out there because the profit industry want you eating meat, they want you unhealthy, they want you in hospitals and popping pills. They want you to stay asleep, they want you productive, they want you to die younger. You need to wake up and try alternate ways of living.

You think cows need to eat meat to get big? Hmm so we need to eat cows because...

This is as far from truth as it gets. Humans are in no way "addicted" to meat, very cute. More like programmed by nature, you know?

One cannot thrive in a raw fruit and veggie diet because it lacks too many nutrients essential to the human body, like uh, protein? Vitamin B? Iron?

The food industry does not profit too much from meat: meat is just meat; good old simple flesh. Unlike your trendy, extremely processed fake ass soy products.

Meat is not unhealthy. You're made of meat. We're not cows, we're humans, whose ancestors were unarguably omnivores.

There has never been a single vegan society on Earth. On the other hand you have a completely carnivorous one (Inuits) and they are healthier than the average Westerner. So suck it.

reply to post by PoorFool


Your screen name makes more and more sense to me as I read your posts and responses in this topic. In response to your 'suck it', how about we keep things civilized here?

The food industry doesn't profit much from meat? Interesting. They sure do go out of their way to mass produce it, there must be some value. Your thinking in terms of price, not quantity. When you increase the quantity, the product becomes cheaper and therefore while it may look like the profits won't be much, the food industry does not gather profits in a single serving of meet, but thousands and hundreds of thousands to a time.

Do you know why many vegans and vegetarians choose not to eat meat? Because of what is done to the creatures and the effects of the meat industry. Did you know that the food required to feed a cow to the point of slaughter could feed us more abundantly? Did you know that of the greenhouse gases everyone has a fit about, 75-85% of it originates from cow waste and flatulance? Laugh all you want, but with less meat eating, you have less of those sorts of problems. Your quite satisfied with our ancestors going out and hunting for their food, so go hunt for yours. If people cut down their meat intake to 5%-15% of their diet and actually hunted for their food, let's say, you wouldn't hear so many complaints. The fact of the matter is that these animals are being treated as mere quantity without any consideration for the quality of their lives. Why quantity? Because there are so many meat overeaters in the world who just must have a serving of meat that they didn't even hunt for on their dinner plate. Unless you hunt for all of your meat, your just as bad as those 'wimpy vegans' because you are fed by people who do things to your food that you don't even care about. As long as you've got a hunk of meat on your plate then your set. Let me know which you are.

Being omnivores does not mean that you SHOULD eat something it just means you can. If you feel you want to eat meat, more power to you as long as you realize the full depth of it. I have not always been a vegetarian, I was a meat eater before, I loved the taste but over time I realized my body didn't respond to it so well. Not everyones body is like mine, thus why I do not tell people not to eat meat.

There are two arguments I've heard that actually make a point. One is "being a vegetarian doesn't just make you healthy" and the other is "your going to die anyway, why worry about health?". My answer to those are that, yes that's right. However, the reason I am a vegetarian isn't because I'm obsessed with life or have the dillusion that I won't die, it's because... for as long as I live, I would like to feel healthy and live to my best ability and being a vegetarian is helping me do that.

One last comment. What is meat? You say "your made of meat", but did you know that most of us if we consumed parts of ourselves or another human, we would become deathly sick? There are actually many creatures which can't stand the taste of human, we are not appetizing. Other meats are, sure, but we are not. So, meat is not unhealthy? That's a generalization. Technically water is not fully healthy, the sun is not fully healthy, the air we breath is not fully healthy, but there are things we can do to decrease the negative affects of those necessary things. Meat in the form of chicken and fish is generally healthier than other meats. Pork in the form of ham.. not good for you. Pork in the form of bacon, the serving size is 1 strip per 3 years. Steak is not good for you.. don't get started with hotdogs. Are you not familiar with cholesterol, high blood pressure, digestive problems, obestity? Lots of meat is abundant in fat, but even if not it's abundant in salt and cholesterol and is very slowly digested, causing problems to the digestive system over time. Some meat isn't nearly as unhealthy, but some meat is very unhealthy. Why make such a general statement saying it isn't?

Until next time,

TheGoodDoctor

(1) Life feeds on life, this is necessary.. (study your TOOL!)
(2) Like said above, humans have canine teeth and we are able to digest meat.
(3) You have probably never been hungry enough to kill, but you would to survive
(4) Like most of us, you've been hand-fed by grocery stores, so your mind thinks killing is unnecessary
(5) It's not wrong when the lion does it.. it's not wrong when we do it!

I could go on, but you get the point.
Do not live with artificial guilt... it's a killer! (see Jane Roberts/Seth: The Nature of Personal Reality)

end transmission ;|

If we were actually meant to be vegetarians, then we wouldn't have such a bad time when we get low doses of protein. We would have that special part of our colon that is especially for digesting plant materials like many animals if we were supposed to be primarily plant eaters; instead, we have an extremely hard time digesting many, many types of edible plants.

Now, if you were to argue that we're not meant to be meat-eaters in the common way, i.e. by eating tons of red meat, then I could actually see that.

reply to post by TheGoodDoctor


Thank you for taking your time to respond.

Livestock as a matter of fact can live perfect lives while eating nothing but grass. Humans don't eat grass, so they're not stealing our food. One good reason to eat free range, grass-fed, wild, etc. Even animals fed a diet of corn, wheat, soy, etc. are good food.

Man-made global warming is a hoax. Now you're talking about animal made global warming?

Define "overeating." I eat enough meat to satisfy my protein intake which around 1.5 x bodyweight for weightlifters, which is not even a lot of meat.

No, being omnivore means that this is what nature has intended for you through millions of years of evolution. The human body is adapted to a diet of meat and plant, possibly more of the former. I mean, there's not much vegetation around in Winter...

Being a vegetarian does not make one healthy. Eating like humans have for thousands of years does. It's in your genes.

I see you're trying to attack my credibility. As a matter of fact I am very much familiar with diseases. Meat, saturated fat, cholesterol, etc, does not contribute to any disease you mentioned.

And last but not least, some sources:

www.amazon.com...=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1295668297&sr=8-1

www.cholesterol-and-health.com...

www.ajcn.org...

rawfoodsos.com...

www.marksdailyapple.com...

I expected more from members of a site that is dedicated to conspiracies. I really hope you are not a doctor, but I wouldn't be surprised.

reply to post by Vandalour


I read two pages of your posts and had enough. Sure there are benefits to giving up meat. Chemical and hormonal laden meat. Your going to sit here and bash people if they don't accept what you say, even the ones with biology/nutritional degrees. "I love how people post here as they are expert in humans, just because they munch meat often... and almost get upset about it." What exactly are you doing?..oh yeah, that VERY THING only difference is you seem to be an "expert" on the anti meat train. For every study you want to use, there will most likely be a counter study out there refuting it. Its the same with low carb/ low fat diet studys. One week a study will come out and say low carb diets are bad bad bad. The next week a study will come out from a different source and say low fat is bad. See my point? Bottom line is you weren't around for the period of human evolution, so therefor you are no expert and neither is anyone else here, so please, get off your high horse, and stop trying to push your agenda and actually read both sides and learn from both. Jeez.

I am a vegetarian and proud of it! I get so sick of people knocking me because of their ignorance - I am sorry but true! People knock me because I have a conscience and they can't understand. Glad you posted this topic. If animals were bred in an "old fashioned type" farm and killed quickly I would still eat meat - but unfortunately this is not the case anymore. The thought of animal killing factories make me sick to the very core of me. If everyone saw how their yummy burger or neatly presented raw meat came to be on their supermarket or butchers shelves, I am more than positive there would be a lot more vegetarians.

Peace

who doesn't love animals..my best friends are animals.
but you can have my turkey drumstick after you pry it from mycolddead fat greasy fingers.