Armed bystander almost shot hero that disarmed AZ shooter

reply to post by DaMod


do you really think that pulling a trigger on a gun is just as easy as making a bomb..?

kx

reply to post by purplemer


Is doing your dishes in the sink as easy as using a dishwasher?

No, but the same end different means.

Your saying that I should have my guns taken from me because a madman entered a store and did something he would have done anyway? What if the bystander would have had a knife instead of a gun? He would have probably been more apt to use it because it's a knife not a gun... He may well not have hesitated as quickly which may also have gotten innocent people killed..

Your entire argument is relying on the pretext that because guns are easy to use they should be banned... A knife is just as easy to use..

I have a friend that can throw a knife so well.. If he went in there with a kitchen set he would have done just as much damage. (of course he never would but just an example.)

He could have also went in there with gasoline and a match.... Oh man.... I'm sure that would have been even more of a tragedy wouldn't it.

Originally posted by DaMod
reply to post by purplemer

 

Is doing your dishes in the sink as easy as using a dishwasher?

No, but the same end different means.

Your saying that I should have my guns taken from me because a madman entered a store and did something he would have done anyway? What if the bystander would have had a knife instead of a gun? He would have probably been more apt to use it because it's a knife not a gun... He may well not have hesitated as quickly which may also have gotten innocent people killed..

Your entire argument is relying on the pretext that because guns are easy to use they should be banned... A knife is just as easy to use..

I have a friend that can throw a knife so well.. If he went in there with a kitchen set he would have done just as much damage. (of course he never would but just an example.)

I dont like guns i see them as objects of violence and violence attacts violence.It is not up to me if your guns get taken away or not. I would much prefer people choose to give up there guns than have forced confiscation. I am not trying to knock you for what you do as a hobby. I can see you enjoy your guns....

I hope one day we the people will live in a world free of them. I know guns kill peeps but it seems many cultures are becoming more violent too, What is making us more violent?

reply to post by purplemer


Oh believe me, we where just as violent when it was just sticks and stones, swords and shields. People have been violent throughout our history..

Napoleon, Gengis Khan not to mention the Roman Empire.. Native American tribes have been killing each other long before the firearm.

You cannot just say.. "Welp they invented guns, that must be why people are getting so wriled up"

You want to talk about mass deaths? Look at the bow and arrow.. Whew now that's a killer right there!

reply to post by purplemer

Now onto your crime stats... where on earth did you get them from... 300 percent increase.

I actually got the statistics directly from the British Home Office. They are the government organization responsible for reporting the statistics. If you look at their list of "reported violent crimes against the person" the 2009-2010 number is more than three hundred percent higher than 1997. That is the year they pulled the guns out of circulation. You are comparing year to year. I have been stating numbers as an increase compared to the year of removal. That has been very obvious.

crime has been falling in the uk not going up.........

Over the last three reporting cycles crime decreased slightly. However, it is still higher than it was when they pulled hand guns. Compared to all numbers before the banning of handguns violent crime has gone up.

Home Office 2010 statistics

In a single year, 3,012 children and teens were killed by gunfire in the United States, according to the latest national data released in 2002.

Actually the most recent data is from 2007. It shows that 1,675 people between 1 and 18 were killed with firearms. That is not nearly as high as your claims. Your statistics are invalid.

Beyond that it was reported in 1997 that guns were being used 2.5 million times a year defensively. If the ratio of defensive uses and crime statistics have remianed stable guns are used more than 1.25 million times a year in defensive situations. I did have one thing wrong earlier. More than 200 rapes are prevented daily. More than 500 potential murders are also prevented. Sorry but 500 if that many lives are saved every day I am sure morekids are saved than killed.

Targeting Guns, Dr. Gary Kleck, Criminologist, Florida State University, Aldine, 1997

rape is a far lesser crime compared to murder..

It isn't murder if you are defending yourself from rape. It is stopping someone from violating your body, mind and spirit. No one has the right to do that to anybody. My mother worked at a rape crisis center and members of my family are rape survivors. I can tell by your assinine answer that you can not claim the same experience. The destruction that is caused by rape is far more devestating than terminating the life of a predator that would comit such a crime.

Why do you believe criminals have more rights to life and security than law abiding citizens? I usually wouldn't ask that question, but it really fits here.

Youre axiom is incorrect and for this reason. Gun crime and culture and two different things. Your data proves nothing. Can you prove that that violent crime would have fallen if handguns remained in legal circulation...

England and Australia banned handguns and confiscated them. Their crime rates went up. Brazil changed their laws and made it so that only police officers can buy guns. Their violent crime rate went up. America has been steadily relaxing gun laws and our crime rate has been falling for more than a decade.

Plus studies done in America have found that 60% of felons will avoid a target they know is armed. The same study showed that 40% admit that they avoid targets they think will be armed.

Armed and Considered Dangerous: A Survey of Felons and Their Firearms, James Wright and Peter
Rossi, Aldine, 1986

Gee our crime rate goes down while it comes up in countries that ban guns. Plus criminals tell us that they avoid armed targets. Then we hve evidence that guns prevent hundreds of thousands of crimes a year if not millions. I think it is safe to say the evidence definitely points to banning guns having the opposite effect of what is inteded.

Don't take my word for it though.
“ Nor is there a relationship between the severity of controls imposed in various countries or the mass of bureaucracy involved with many control systems with the apparent ease of access to firearms by criminals and terrorists.”

Minutes of Evidence, Colin Greenwood, Select Committee on Northern Ireland Affairs, January 29,
2003.

According to the 2004 Uniform Crime Report state that disallow concealed carry have a violent crime rate 11% higher than the national average.

Nina Butts of Texans Against Gun Violence has admitted that Concealed Carry is not a problem in the Dallas Morning News back in 2000. She admitted that concealed carry had not led to the "wild west" shoot outs that anti-gun advocates had predicted.

In over 80% of gun defenses a concealable weapon is used and more than a quarter of these defenses happen away from home.

Multiple Victim Public Shootings, Bombings, and Right-to-Carry Concealed Handgun Laws:
Contrasting Private and Public Law Enforcement, Lott John R., Landes William M.; University of
Chicago – covers years 1977 to 1995

Seems to me like a preponderance of evidence in favor of allowing the general population to have guns.

If you want to talk about culture though I will give you this much. Even if you eradicated all of the gun related homicide in America the murder rate would still be three times that of Japan and aproximately double that of England. Americans are a violent bunch.

Originally posted by purplemer
reply to post by CX

 

No the fact that he had a gun meant an innocent nearly died.

kx

I don't know what is more disappointing, the fact that someone actually posted this or the fact that others saw fit to reward their effort with recognition. I feel for people who actually feel this way.

I wonder how many innocents around the world were saved that day because "someone" had a "gun"...

reply to post by Asktheanimals

And if the tackler almost got there a bit sooner he might have shot thebad guy sometime after he made his murderous intentions clear preventing the shootings or at least
minimizing the loss loss of life.
"almost[/i] ..." works both ways...