Epic Blog by an Active MK Ultra Soldier, Read Immediately!

Originally posted by pianopraze
reply to post by B.Morrison

 

I was referring to the oversight, who is really in charge.

Yes military was involved in several of the sub-projects. Both Navy and Army. And they were repeatedly used for test subjects. Here's a nice little summary I just found from the Boston Chronicle which shows how and when the military was used (since you don't like wikipedia).

wiki is useless in discussing ongoing government sanctioned conspiracy wouldn't you agree?
the pages can be edited by anyone. So I'm looking at Stephens article and I can see one massive blunder already - the guy is stating

"It was run under the direction of Dr. Charles Savage of the Naval Medical Research Institute, Bethesda, MD from 1947 - 1953, after which CIA's Office of Scientific Intelligence continued it under the name Project Bluebird"

and then shortly after

"In 1951, it was renamed Project Artichoke, then MK-ULTRA under Deputy CIA Director Richard Helms in 1953."

The FOI documents I've seen state things differently. Bluebird came first - Then Artichoke - Then Ultra, Bluebird was the first incarnation - not the last. He got that completely backwards. How & why did he make that mistake? and then allow it to be published? Artichoke was quite different to bluebird. I've heard rumours that Bluebird continued with a different team though had been thought by the others to have been canned. But that is just a rumour. why do the host write

"Mr. Lendman's stories are republished in the Baltimore Chronicle with permission of the author."

why use the word stories instead of articles? where is the bibliography, sources...I.e. where is the proof? there is proof to be found in testimony, etc from guantanamo, why didn't he source it? he does a full article on it back at the blogspot but again - no indication of 'where' he got his info from - I also see he is making money selling books about his research. Sorry but I don't like that.

I have several books I could pull off the shelf and type out, but that gets a bit tedious. The info is the same in all sources.

no one would ask you too, that would be unreasonable.

Later when the project went black NASA and Air force bases were used. This gets more into the conspiracy side of MK and you have to start relying on victim testimony and deductive reasoning at which many here on ATS are so good.

kind of... Legitimate documents, courtroom testimonies - and certain testimonies from documentaries that carry particular weight - i.e. the Olsen family & friends - You can prove quite a bit with those things alone - and it will always be considered solid proof - you wouldn't have to deal with people like me chipping away at you.

I have put numerous links in both this and the other active mind control thread you can peruse at leisure.
I have put together a few playlists on my you tube page and will put more in the future. I don't know how to link in the individual playlists but they are on the right hand side of my page:
youtube channel

thank you, I'll check them out. EDIT: ok checked them out - Kathy & mark aren't trustworthy IMHO. The 'formula' book you posted I'm reserving judgement on for the time being - but I'm pretty sure that vigilant citizen references it for his work so I'm sceptical. No comment on you tube videos - I do not like you tube and it makes me biased.

Now admittedly - while I may have not seen the proof yet - that doesn't mean it doesn't exist - but I have not seen it - and you have not yet shown me it. Sorry to be such a stick in the mud about this but if we don't get our facts straight we are just propagating the disinformation.

-B.M

Originally posted by B.Morrison
wiki is useless in discussing ongoing government sanctioned conspiracy wouldn't you agree?

Yes, except for quick reference. I have studied these from other sources.

You have repeatedly caught me being lazy

The FOI documents I've seen state things differently. Bluebird came first - Then Artichoke - Then Ultra, Bluebird was the first incarnation - not the last.

I believe you are correct.

where is the bibliography, sources...I.e. where is the proof? there is proof to be found in testimony, etc from guantanamo, why didn't he source it? he does a full article on it back at the blogspot but again - no indication of 'where' he got his info from - I also see he is making money selling books about his research.

If you look at the links I provide there are literally hundreds of hours of information. One of the books I link to which you can download is over 500 pages.

Here is a good mass market published book I just pulled off the shelf: Secrets & Lies A History of CIA Mind Control & Germ Warfare.

I have several books I could pull off the shelf and type out, but that gets a bit tedious. The info is the same in all sources.

no one would ask you too, that would be unreasonable.

Not unreasonable. I was just being lazy.

Later when the project went black NASA and Air force bases were used. This gets more into the conspiracy side of MK and you have to start relying on victim testimony and deductive reasoning at which many here on ATS are so good.

kind of... Legitimate documents, courtroom testimonies - and certain testimonies from documentaries that carry particular weight - i.e. the Olsen family & friends - You can prove quite a bit with those things alone - and it will always be considered solid proof - you wouldn't have to deal with people like me chipping away you.

Just challenging me to raise the level of my posts. I've been lazy saying just go look at the other sources.

thank you, I'll check them out. EDIT: ok checked them out - Kathy & mark aren't trustworthy IMHO. The 'formula' book you posted I'm reserving judgement on for the time being - but I'm pretty sure that vigilant citizen references it for his work so I'm sceptical. No comment on youtube videos - I do not like youtube and it makes me biased.

Now admittedly - while I may have not seen the proof yet - that doesn't mean it doesn't exist - but I have not seen it - and you have not yet shown me it. Sorry to be such a stick in the mud about this but if we don't get our facts straight we are just propagating the disinformation.

-B.M

edit on 20/1/11 by B.Morrison because: (no reason given)

The waters get muddy quick, but there is a good strain of reliable information in these videos. At first I was quick to dismiss some of Fritzmeir/Wheeler info until I got to certain points in the book. There might be some information in there that is questionable but I know for a fact that some of the information is rock solid.

If you want it all laid out for you with sources beyond question you will not find it. Even MK victims cannot give you 100% solid information because of the trauma and torture they have been through. Even some of the information they recover is questionable to them and the world do to possibility of false information planted in some of the alters by the programmers to deliberately muddy the waters.

Marsboy and psychetruth and the "Conspiracy of Silence" produced for the History channel are the more solid of the links. Don't dismiss Fritzmeir/Wheeler. And yes, Vigilant Citizen uses his work extensively.

Originally posted by pianopraze
Secrets & Lies A History of CIA Mind Control & Germ Warfare.
The waters get muddy quick, but there is a good strain of reliable information in these videos. At first I was quick to dismiss some of Fritzmeir/Wheeler info until I got to certain points in the book. There might be some information in there that is questionable but I know for a fact that some of the information is rock solid.

I'll give these books some time when I start up again...unfortunately I'm taking a break - it sounds like a cop out I know, but I was researching this stuff for about a year, I need the break! when I feel like picking up where I left off I will start first with some other documents I know of that are on par with FOI docs, then I'll hit the footage, then the books. I have a lot to digest..

If you want it all laid out for you with sources beyond question you will not find it.

Well you're completely right there and thats why I just did it myself. Always the easiest route if you've got the time & energy. I was only able to cover 43-53, and only what was made available, I haven't looked through all my stuff yet..as to how much I can prove to my own standards, time will tell

Even MK victims cannot give you 100% solid information because of the trauma and torture they have been through. Even some of the information they recover is questionable to them and the world do to possibility of false information planted in some of the alters by the programmers to deliberately muddy the waters.

I agree.

Marsboy and psychetruth and the "Conspiracy of Silence" produced for the History channel are the more solid of the links.

thats great, thank you for giving me your opinion on the validity of these things, i can check against my own resource - if I have that stuff already I'll be sure to digest it sooner, and if not I know what to look for

Don't dismiss Fritzmeir/Wheeler. And yes, Vigilant Citizen uses his work extensively.

well I will have to read the stuff first, I've been dismissing by association - which is never fair, I really need to read the books before I pass judgement. I do think that anyone writing a non-fiction book who doesn't list sources isn't helping though, but thats just my 2 cent.

P.L.U.R.I
-B.M

So let me get this straight , He's apart of a crazy goverment cover up and is posting openly on the internet about how he apart of said cover up yet no one in the goverment shuts it down or censors it anyway?
I mean I know some of you had said they tried to kill him but why are they allowing his website to be up right now if he's apart of this cover up?

Plus if they tried to kill him once , wouldn't posting on the internet the worst thing you can? Can't they track through his IP adress?I mean if he's using a public computer?

Plus why does he have photos of himself on his blog if he's trying to hide fromt he goverment whos already attempted to kill him? Or is he not hiding from them despite the fact that as he's said himself they tried to kill and mind-wash him into being a killing machine?

reply to post by Reptius


all of those are excellent points. I wonder about these things myself, mostly other cases more than this one, but the same points apply - which lead me to think that there is a lot of disinformation being spread out there...

-B.M

Originally posted by Namaste1001
You can always tell when someone get close to the truth as all of the haters come out trying to discredit who ever is being talked about.

The usual slurs such as mentally ill, nut job etc. get banded about without providing any real proof of anything. It's pathetic.

And I suppose you can provide any proof at all for "Super soldiers" lifting people up using only their minds.
Seriously are you that logically numb or are you a troll? For your sake I hope you're a troll.

Originally posted by B.Morrison
which lead me to think that there is a lot of disinformation being spread out there...

-B.M

How long did it take you to reach that conclusion?
No disinformation here. Only a stupid bored person's blog filled with totally imaginary stuff he invented while lots of people buy that BS for some reason eventho there is not even a single proof handed out to the credibility of the stupid stories.

The people who think this BS is real are simply an embarrassment for the human species.

Almost to a T of what i thought within hours of the incident, people need to realize the black government technology is about 40-60 years more advanced than that of the average sheep living and breathing. Thus i will not say much else, as the good die young, and as they say the raised nail always get the hammer

Originally posted by Reptius
So let me get this straight , He's apart of a crazy goverment cover up and is posting openly on the internet about how he apart of said cover up yet no one in the goverment shuts it down or censors it anyway?
I mean I know some of you had said they tried to kill him but why are they allowing his website to be up right now if he's apart of this cover up?

Plus if they tried to kill him once , wouldn't posting on the internet the worst thing you can? Can't they track through his IP adress?I mean if he's using a public computer?

Plus why does he have photos of himself on his blog if he's trying to hide fromt he goverment whos already attempted to kill him? Or is he not hiding from them despite the fact that as he's said himself they tried to kill and mind-wash him into being a killing machine?

He is a programed MK-ULTRA asset. He was tortured from the time he was a baby and programed to be a killer. His mind has started recovering some of his memories. There is also dis-information memories programed into him. It makes it very hard to tell what is real and what is dis-information even to Duncan.

They can recall him at any time; Duncan takes pains not to be recalled but it still happens. The assaination attempts are on his front alter who is re-intigrating with other alters. He states that he has been saved by psychic intuition multiple times (source: lectureScarefestsymposium November 2010).

So he is a functioning MK asset (as he attempts to deprogram himself) and an obvious dis-information asset as the points you point out. This make the waters very muddy. Which is a win-win for them. This is an example of a MK asset trying to get his mind back.

Originally posted by IsraeliGuy
And I suppose you can provide any proof at all for "Super soldiers" lifting people up using only their minds.
Seriously are you that logically numb or are you a troll? For your sake I hope you're a troll.

The people who think this BS is real are simply an embarrassment for the human species.

edit on 21-1-2011 by IsraeliGuy because: (no reason given)

As a "simple embarrassment for the human species" I would suggest there are more things in heaven and earth than meet your philosophy. And reading both statements, one is earnestly asking questions and one is trolling.

It is possible this is part of the dis-information programed into these MK assets, but I don't think this particular part falls into that category.

reply to post by IsraeliGuy


If you are willing to help deny these peoples ignorance I would be grateful.
Read my post on page 2 and it will be case closed in one post.
I can't add links using my ps3 so I need someone to add them for me.
Read my post on page 2 which got ignored and you will see he has been debunked.

I just need someone to put the link up for me.

Originally posted by DrumsRfun
reply to post by IsraeliGuy

 

If you are willing to help deny these peoples ignorance I would be grateful.
Read my post on page 2 and it will be case closed in one post.
I can't add links using my ps3 so I need someone to add them for me.
Read my post on page 2 which got ignored and you will see he has been debunked.

I just need someone to put the link up for me.

Is this what your refering to? : link

Wow, just read through that forum thread. He got on the defensive and clammed up. Seems like there was some sort of issue with his agent telling him not to talk.

Well, he did talk, and was on Jessie's Conspiracy Theory and provided the medical evidence for which they were asking.

Originally posted by pianopraze
As a "simple embarrassment for the human species" I would suggest there are more things in heaven and earth than meet your philosophy. And reading both statements, one is earnestly asking questions and one is trolling.

It is possible this is part of the dis-information programed into these MK assets, but I don't think this particular part falls into that category.

Asking questions? How can anyone ask questions about people being blown away by "mindpowers" and not being either a troll or a gullible idiot?

Just answer these questions.
a. If this is indeed a legit story and this guy is really that big of a deal as he says, how come the government didn't shut the site down, OR caught the guy using simple 90s decade IP tracer?
b. Do you believe in Super Soldiers and people using their minds to blow people away?
c. Do you have any kind of REAL proof at hand? A blog with stories or a youtube video are not proof. I can very well make a blog saying I'm the devil's spawn.. does that make me so?


...An embarrassment to human intelligence.

reply to post by pianopraze


Yeah thats the link...thank you for adding that.
He started that thread and when he was challenged to provide proof to his claims he got flustered.
He underestimated the critical thinkers that obliged his request and I have to point out,they were very polite and respectful.
The letter they received from the producer was a total joke and was met with a responce that showed the pure ignorance of both the producer and her client Mr. O'Finnion.
If Jesse Ventura's research team was any good they would have read that and taken it into account....sadly they did not and I highly doubt he was given the proof that is claimed because he would be the only one who has ever seen any form of proof because I have yet to see anything anywhere that proves what he claims.

Duncan is a legend in his own mind.....ask him and I am sure he will tell you all about it.
I wonder how much he is charging these days.

Here's a blogtalkradio episode interview with Duncan
www.blogtalkradio.com...

And also his Project Camelot Awake and Aware conference Sept. 2009 interview:
www.youtube.com...

Originally posted by IsraeliGuy
Asking questions? How can anyone ask questions about people being blown away by "mindpowers" and not being either a troll or a gullible idiot?

Just answer these questions.
a. If this is indeed a legit story and this guy is really that big of a deal as he says, how come the government didn't shut the site down, OR caught the guy using simple 90s decade IP tracer?
b. Do you believe in Super Soldiers and people using their minds to blow people away?
c. Do you have any kind of REAL proof at hand? A blog with stories or a youtube video are not proof. I can very well make a blog saying I'm the devil's spawn.. does that make me so?

...An embarrassment to human intelligence.

Nice to see you still trolling, So I will speak up for us "embarrassments to the human intellect."

People asking questions are not gullible idiots, they are seekers of the truth.

a: I believe he is a real MK victim. Please see my other posts on all three active mind control threads about how MK victims have programed disinformation in them so it makes it hard to separate what really happened from programmed disinformation. His talking serves the government as most people will scoff at him. None of that "IP Tracer" crap as needed. They can recall him in a variety of ways. He is still being used. You can see him live at conventions around the U.S. I saw him in November at Scarefest in Lexington KY (link in previous threads).

b.I absolutely believe he has memories of it, and so do many other MK survivors. If this is real or programed disinformation I can not confirm or deny.

c: I have repeatedly linked videos and documents with such things as victim testimony before congress and foia documents like the 20,000 MK-ULTRA documents: FOIA Link

sincerely,
human embarrassment
pianopraze

Originally posted by DrumsRfun
reply to post by pianopraze

 

Yeah thats the link...thank you for adding that.
He started that thread and when he was challenged to provide proof to his claims he got flustered.
He underestimated the critical thinkers that obliged his request and I have to point out, they were very polite and respectful.
The letter they received from the producer was a total joke and was met with a responce that showed the pure ignorance of both the producer and her client Mr. O'Finnion.
If Jesse Ventura's research team was any good they would have read that and taken it into account....sadly they did not and I highly doubt he was given the proof that is claimed because he would be the only one who has ever seen any form of proof because I have yet to see anything anywhere that proves what he claims.

Duncan is a legend in his own mind.....ask him and I am sure he will tell you all about it.
I wonder how much he is charging these days.

Your welcome. Will work for stars

Many were quite respectful, other not so much.

I agree he should have responded to the respectful requests.

It looks like he got bombarded and overwhelmed. Easy to happen to an MK asset. Talking about this is not easy at the best of times, and on bad days it is nearly impossible.

I especially liked the post with the suggestion that they link him in with George Knapp, C2C, etc... very polite and helpful.

They showed the x-rays in the Jessie video, he has also provided it to other sources, i disremember which but I have seen them.

Duncan comes across as very humble and polite in person. Not at all macho, legend-in-his-own-mind. He is a little hillbilly, but he takes pride of that

He is not charging much, and doesn't do many conventions. He was not selling anything at the convention I attended,he just did a lecture/q&a/and was available to talk... I saw him and talked with him in Lexington KY Scarefest last November. There is a lot more to his story than he shows in these videos.

I fully believe he believes this happened to him. He shows all the signs of an MK victim. What memories are absolute truth and what memories are programmed disinformation I am sure not even he knows.

MK happened, continues to happen, and more victims come forth all the time. Victims have testified before congres, received cash settlements for mistreatment, and President Clinton officially apologized for it.

Originally posted by Expat888
Funny.. All these "super-soldiers" running around yet they still havent nicked ol bin laden or any other terrorist.. Nor have they apparently done anything in iraq and afghanistan or are tribesman with old aks tougher ?

This is because the PTB don't actually want bin laden, nor do they want the wars to end, because their constituent contractors and the bankers are making fortunes... Even the CIA have been found to be promoting supportive propaganda in the war regions to foster increasing local, and ongoing support of the allied presence there..

Originally posted by pianopraze
People asking questions are not gullible idiots, they are seekers of the truth.

People who ask questions about some guy who is obviously an attention seeker that tells stories about super telekinetic powers being used by soldiers aren't seekers of any truth. They are dumbasses that inject themselves other truths and forcing their own versions of the truth on others. While others naturally reject those idiotic opinions, these "truth seekers" resort to more idiocy in the forms of epic logic fails like this thread has produced.

a: I believe he is a real MK victim.

Unfortunately your belief has no relevance to you proving something. If you want to convince someone you'll have to do better than to believe in it.

b.I absolutely believe he has memories of it, and so do many other MK survivors. If this is real or programed disinformation I can not confirm or deny.

Same as above.

c: I have repeatedly linked videos and documents with such things as victim testimony before congress and foia documents like the 20,000 MK-ULTRA documents: FOIA Link

Don't put words in my mouth. I have never said anything about MK-Ultra at large and I am fully aware of many evidences to this issue. I don't doubt it at all.
However, this Duncan guy is an obvious joker with extraordinary claims which he has yet to confirm or validate any of them. People are buying this BS fairytale based on what? On "I believe he is...", just that.

Originally posted by IsraeliGuy
People who ask questions about some guy who is obviously an attention seeker that tells stories about super telekinetic powers being used by soldiers aren't seekers of any truth. They are dumbasses that inject themselves other truths and forcing their own versions of the truth on others. While others naturally reject those idiotic opinions, these "truth seekers" resort to more idiocy in the forms of epic logic fails like this thread has produced.

Your language and tone are objectionable and unproductive for a civil discourse. Please follow the T&C.

Unfortunately your belief has no relevance to you proving something. If you want to convince someone you'll have to do better than to believe in it.

You ignored the basis for my arguments.

He displays all the characteristics of an MK survivor.
He has been threatened.
His memories are full of disinformation which serves the government and neither he nor anyone else can say which are which. He admitted this in person last November. Where one chooses to draw the line between belief and disinformation is a choice everyone has to choose individually. Duncan presents many, but not all, of his memories.

Don't put words in my mouth. I have never said anything about MK-Ultra at large and I am fully aware of many evidences to this issue. I don't doubt it at all.
However, this Duncan guy is an obvious joker with extraordinary claims which he has yet to confirm or validate any of them. People are buying this BS fairytale based on what? On "I believe he is...", just that.

edit on 21-1-2011 by IsraeliGuy because: (no reason given)

I have put no words in your mouth.

My consistent statement has been He displays all the characteristics of an MK victim.

You have repeatedly ignored my arguments or not understood them.

There are plenty of people on this site that believe things I can never accept, but I would never dream of suggesting they believe BS. What a person believes is up to them and maybe we should not be so quick to judge. Many things we believe are false might be true... and how many things do you now believe that you used to think were false? In my case the answer is "many."

Please adjust your argument style towards civility.

Thank you.

Originally posted by pianopraze
You ignored the basis for my arguments.

He displays all the characteristics of an MK survivor.
He has been threatened.
His memories are full of disinformation which serves the government and neither he nor anyone else can say which are which. He admitted this in person last November. Where one chooses to draw the line between belief and disinformation is a choice everyone has to choose individually. Duncan presents many, but not all, of his memories.

. . .
This is, again, your belief. It still doesn't mean it's true unless you prove it better than just stating your belief. Assuming you want to convince others ofcourse.

So what if he "admitted" it whenever he did? This guy has a blog that's talking about ridiculous stuff aswell! Ofcourse he's going to admit it, can't you even try to consider he's lying?
This guy has some outrageous claims that NONE have yet to be even slightly confirmed in any sort of way. Is it easier to buy the whole story just like that? Is this what "truth seeking" is?.. UGH!


..Let's try it this way, can you show me any evidence to make me even consider the possibility of you knowing what's going on inside this man dreams? And solid way of proving me this guy was an MK-Ultra victim?
I'll also give you credit for proving any BS (damn straight I call it BS!) on his blog aswell.

I have put no words in your mouth.

My consistent statement has been He displays all the characteristics of an MK victim.

You have repeatedly ignored my arguments or not understood them.

I've understood you completely. All I'm saying is that all arrows are pointing at a hoaxer, one out of many.
Is it too much asking you how do you assume all that stuff is real?

There are plenty of people on this site that believe things I can never accept, but I would never dream of suggesting they believe BS. What a person believes is up to them and maybe we should not be so quick to judge. Many things we believe are false might be true... and how many things do you now believe that you used to think were false? In my case the answer is "many."

Please adjust your argument style towards civility.

Thank you.

You're right here.. my apologies. I just hate compulsive liars like that guy.

Originally posted by IsraeliGuy
How long did it take you to reach that conclusion?
No disinformation here. Only a stupid bored person's blog filled with totally imaginary stuff he invented while lots of people buy that BS for some reason even tho there is not even a single proof handed out to the credibility of the stupid stories.

It didn't take very long at all, a few youtube videos got me interested enough to read the project superman book, and after discussing it in a few forums I decided it was largely BS. But here's where you and I differ. I took the next step and aquired legitimate proof. Then I read it and went "wow its true." ("it"=MK-Ultra)

so here's the thing - you are wrong. The projects were real.

The people who think this BS is real are simply an embarrassment for the human species.

how do you manage to get 29 karma points when you're baiting arguments like that?
theres something very wrong with that.

Originally posted by allprowolfy
Thus i will not say much else, as the good die young, and as they say the raised nail always get the hammer

how compassionate...

Originally posted by IsraeliGuy
Asking questions? How can anyone ask questions about people being blown away by "mindpowers" and not being either a troll or a gullible idiot?

People who ask questions about some guy who is obviously an attention seeker that tells stories about super telekinetic powers being used by soldiers aren't seekers of any truth. They are dumbasses that inject themselves other truths and forcing their own versions of the truth on others. While others naturally reject those idiotic opinions, these "truth seekers" resort to more idiocy in the forms of epic logic fails like this thread has produced.

There is no such thing as a stupid question if the person asking it learns something from the answer. The only people doomed to ignorance are people who refuse to ask questions.

a. If this is indeed a legit story and this guy is really that big of a deal as he says, how come the government didn't shut the site down, OR caught the guy using simple 90s decade IP tracer?

its possible (though I feel unlikely) he is being allowed to talk because most of what he says - to borrow a term - 'muddies the waters' - much like you are by taking on the role of shooting down theories - without providing any of your own - and no, denying other peoples theories doesn't equate to you offering one of your own.

b. Do you believe in Super Soldiers and people using their minds to blow people away?

I don't think its likely, but I do believe that as we don't use about 80% of our brains, there is an undeniable possibility that we could uncover extra power if we did use it. We may one day evolve into something that can use its brain for these kinds of things and you cannot deny that without appearing a fool - which incidentally is something you seem very afraid of.

c. Do you have any kind of REAL proof at hand? A blog with stories or a youtube video are not proof. I can very well make a blog saying I'm the devil's spawn.. does that make me so?

plenty - take a good look around this site and I guarantee you will find solid proof of these projects on at least one thread.

..An embarrassment to human intelligence.

wow you're desire to be correct just overtook you ability to be rational & unbiased.
Congratulations on being unpleasant, I'm sure it made you feel...something.

Originally posted by pianopraze
a: I believe he is a real MK victim.

Originally posted by IsraeliGuy

Unfortunately your belief has no relevance to you proving something. If you want to convince someone you'll have to do better than to believe in it.

no but you're cherry picking, here is the proof he provided in that very post -

Originally posted by pianopraze
MK happened, continues to happen, and more victims come forth all the time. Victims have testified before congres, received cash settlements for mistreatment, and President Clinton officially apologized for it.

Originally posted by IsraeliGuy Don't put words in my mouth. I have never said anything about MK-Ultra at large and I am fully aware of many evidences to this issue. I don't doubt it at all.
However, this Duncan guy is an obvious joker with extraordinary claims which he has yet to confirm or validate any of them. People are buying this BS fairytale based on what? On "I believe he is...", just that.

like Praze said, no one put words in your mouth - if you can't see how this statement -

The people who think this BS is real are simply an embarrassment for the human species.

- could have been interpreted by others as applying to the broader topic of MK-Ultra, then there is no helping you.

..Let's try it this way, can you show me any evidence to make me even consider the possibility of you knowing what's going on inside this man dreams? And solid way of proving me this guy was an MK-Ultra victim?
I'll also give you credit for proving any BS (damn straight I call it BS!) on his blog aswell.

it's a valid argument but also a cheap argument generally used by people with no interest in learning the truth behind something, anyone educated in the broader topic know that there isn't really any way to confirm a lot of this stuff.

One more thing - just a tip - making things bold or underlined or whatever - doesn't make your statements any more relevant or intelligent. It just shows your getting frustrated.

You're right here.. my apologies. I just hate compulsive liars like that guy.

Whether you care that I was offended or not, you are forgiven, however when it comes to your original intentions - I've been duped before - I don't sling crap at people because of it.

-B.M

Originally posted by IsraeliGuyThis is, again, your belief. It still doesn't mean it's true unless you prove it better than just stating your belief. Assuming you want to convince others ofcourse.

So what if he "admitted" it whenever he did? This guy has a blog that's talking about ridiculous stuff aswell! Ofcourse he's going to admit it, can't you even try to consider he's lying?
This guy has some outrageous claims that NONE have yet to be even slightly confirmed in any sort of way. Is it easier to buy the whole story just like that? Is this what "truth seeking" is?.. UGH!

I am putting information out. Feel free to believe whatever you choose. I would probably not believe anything about MK ULTRA beyond the foia documents given a choice. It is a much better world to live in if this were not true and I don't belittle anyone for not believing it.

I thought this was utter bull when I first saw Duncan. I dismissed it for years. For my own reasons I ended up studying MK ULTRA and related MK extremely intensely. I find the core of his testimony lines up with that which I know of MK victims. If the more difficult to believe aspects make you throw out the whole case, I would suggest that is a mistake.

Almost all MK victims that start to recover their memory end up with "out there" info. It is a part of the MK programming so that when they start to remember they are driven to commit suicide or goto a hospital. Once in a hospital for either reason they are quickly officially branded with onerous diagnosis which even further discredit them. There is a certain evil genius to it.

I don't dismiss truth seekers. I'll have to agree to disagree.

..Let's try it this way, can you show me any evidence to make me even consider the possibility of you knowing what's going on inside this man dreams? And solid way of proving me this guy was an MK-Ultra victim?
I'll also give you credit for proving any BS (damn straight I call it BS!) on his blog aswell.

His testimony, and even his "out there" testimony line up as a classic MK victim. I see his blog as the classical psychology a true MK victim would elicit. You will have to survey all the literature and links and decide for yourself rather than ask for proof. Proof in MK is next to nonexistent.

I've understood you completely. All I'm saying is that all arrows are pointing at a hoaxer, one out of many.
Is it too much asking you how do you assume all that stuff is real?

I do not assume all that stuff is real. Duncan displays all the characteristics of being a MK victim not a hoaxer.

You're right here.. my apologies. I just hate compulsive liars like that guy.

edit on 21-1-2011 by IsraeliGuy because: (no reason given)

Accepted, thank you for the change.

I can understand why this information would be triggering. It was difficult for me to fathom such inhumanity could exist; and Duncan has stated many statements that would make it particularly easy to dismiss his testimony.