Atheism is NOT a Religion - Accept this, move on.

liked the post thank you ...

the reason religious folks have such a hard time wrapping their heads around this is because their paradigm is so far removed from the typical atheists that they can not fathom anyone denying what they feel to be so blatantly obvious...funny thing is, that is the same POV as the typical atheist. I can not understand at all how religious people delude themselves to the point of believing in magic beings controlling their lives and...deaths.


i believe that is the source of the abortion debate it isnt a moral issue at all. it is a biological imperative to sustain the species hardwired into all life on the planet. even advocates of abortion find it distasteful. it sucks but until we get past the hype that its morality, and realize its biological and it is something that is common throughout nature,(as is homosexuality, though that’s another topic) such as wolves eating their young…we will never find a way to remove it from our nature. once we get past the false belief that this is a moral issue and realize that the contention is due to biological imperatives, then we can have an honest debate.
i don’t believe that ultimately biological needs can be eliminated, controlled yes,eliminated no. i think that the more we understand them the easier it gets to find balance to the equation,
good / evil / morality are just judgments collectively made for the good of the species, just human constructs created to explain biological imperatives. --quoting myself from another blog site

to an Atheist the above comment is pretty clear, my stance and my reasons for that stance...
to a religious person that statement is the most alien thing they could imagine.

tried to have this debate with a born again christian... it didn't go well. guess to many atheist = Antichrist. i was raised a religious person. i respect the fact that many use it as a crutch(not a bad thing) to assist them in being moral good persons. however even Jesus spoke of those that did not have his laws yet behaved in the manor of a good honest upright person...he spoke of those although not having the law where a law unto themselves. he respected the fact that there are those that did not have his system of beliefs where still good people. why cant Christians behave similarly?

The way I see it, you atheists are a group of people with one common belief, who come together to discuss those beliefs. you get angered when people challenge the notion that your beliefs are foolish or wrong, and you seek to disprove others beliefs through "logic and reason" or sheer ridicule.

that sounds a lot like a religion to me...

reply to post by NadaCambia


I do not understand why you speak so openly your hate for Americans when in fact UK governmental institutions are enacting laws against Atheists speaking out, but American Law has already established for you the right and freedom to speak anything you want here.

You just can not challenge our establishments ruling as an institution, eg: the Church of Atheism Vs United States because we have separation of church and state...

Is Atheism a protected religion under the Constitution?

Freedom of religion means freedom to choose one's religion, or freedom to choose no religion at all. Always has been. There's a reason that the Constitution specifies that there can be no religious tests for public office, including no bar against people who aren't interested in religion at all.

Atheism isn't a religion. It's the rejection of religion. But that rejection is itself protected.

answers.yahoo.com...

so one could come here and leave pamphlets in prayer rooms all they want, no one solidified in their faith would give a hoot and just throw them out !

I guess this has something to do with that American saying ("Give me your tired, your poor, Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free") on the Statue of Liberty ?

get with it guys...

Originally posted by The Revenant
Atheism is NOT a religion - do not Troll by arguing that Atheism is one.

Oh my - I'm not quite sure where to go with this then. It seems that right off the bat you label anyone who might disagree with your thoughts a troll. If that is the case - what is the purpose of the thread? Are you only looking for responses that agree with your standpoint?

It doesn't honestly leave much room for discussion. How about I just show you what I found?

I looked up "Region" in a couple of dictionary. Its worth noting that there are several meanings to the word. For example -

Religion - Dictionary.com says...

1.a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, esp. when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs.
2.a specific fundamental set of beliefs and practices generally agreed upon by a number of persons or sects: the Christian religion; the Buddhist religion.
3.the body of persons adhering to a particular set of beliefs and practices: a world council of religions.
4.the life or state of a monk, nun, etc.: to enter religion.
5.the practice of religious beliefs; ritual observance of faith.
6.something one believes in and follows devotedly; a point or matter of ethics or conscience: to make a religion of fighting prejudice.
7.religions, Archaic . religious rites.
8.Archaic . strict faithfulness; devotion: a religion to one's vow.

Hmmm - that #6 is kind of interesting don't you think? Lets see what another dictionary has to say. Maybe one of the older, more established ones?

Religion - Merriam Webster Dictionary

1a : the state of a religious b (1) : the service and worship of God or the supernatural (2) : commitment or devotion to religious faith or observance
2 : a personal set or institutionalized system of religious attitudes, beliefs, and practices
3 archaic : scrupulous conformity : conscientiousness
4: a cause, principle, or system of beliefs held to with ardor and faith

Examples of RELIGION

1. Many people turn to religion for comfort in a time of crisis.
2. There are many religions, such as Buddhism, Christianity, Hinduism, Islam, and Judaism.
3. Shinto is a religion that is unique to Japan.
4. Hockey is a religion in Canada.
5. Politics are a religion to him.
6. Where I live, high school football is religion.
7. Food is religion in this house.

Hmm.. interesting. That #4 "a cause, principle, or system of beliefs held to with ardor and faith" is no doubt what causes Hockey, politics, food, etc to be listed as examples of "religion".

It seems that many atheists hold their belief that there is no god with ardor and have full faith in the proof that there is no god.

reply to post by JohnnyCanuck


You are a wise man.

2nd line

Originally posted by fooks
reply to post by traditionaldrummer

 

belief is, by definition, religion.

there is only religion.

NO! Lack of a belief in a deity is not a belief.

I believe many things - - there is nothing that says an Atheist can't have beliefs.

Those beliefs DO NOT include a deity.

Why do some try to complicate it? It is not complicated.

You have belief In the scientific theory, faith it will never fail, without any knowledge of future information that is unable to be attained yet. Not saying your wrong just pointing out the obvious what is true in science today is old news, proven wrong, proven right, expanded, revised, changed tomorrow. Truth in science is constently in flux. That's a historical fact.

Originally posted by The Revenant
Continually, theist ATS members are openly spreading lies and deceit about what Atheism is, and what it is not. Many ATS members are actively trolling any threads or comments which display an openly atheist theme.

Understand this: Atheism is NOT a religion.

Religion IS:

"Religion is a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of life and the universe, especially when considered as the creation of a supernatural agency, or human beings’ relation to that which they regard as holy, sacred, spiritual, or divine. Many religions have narratives, symbols, traditions and sacred histories that are intended to give meaning to life. They tend to derive morality, ethics, religious laws or a preferred lifestyle from their ideas about the cosmos and human nature.

The word religion is sometimes used interchangeably with faith or belief system, but religion differs from private belief in that it has a public aspect. Most religions have organized behaviors, including congregations for prayer, priestly hierarchies, holy places, and/or scriptures."

SOURCE: Wikipedia

Atheists do not know what the cause, nature or purpose of life and the universe is. We do not pretend to know.

Atheists think that the only supernatural agency we know of is the FBI's X-Files department. That and the staff department of ATS!

Atheists are not capable of thinking something 'holy' or 'divine', unless you take into account sport - then you'll find we're very holy about our favourite teams!

Atheists have no standard 'narrative' or 'dogma'.

Atheists have no symbols or traditions.

Atheists have no sacred histories or ancient stories to tell.

Atheists DO NOT KNOW THE MEANING OR PURPOSE OF LIFE, and do not pretend to know. (Again, just for good measure.)

Atheists derive morality, ethics, laws and our lifestyles from the society around us, based on empirical, provable, 'Social Contracts' and 'Utilitarian' philosophies associated with Democracy. NOT Theocratic 'diktat'.

Atheists generally have ideas about the cosmos and human nature derived from the application of scientific method to generate facts. If scientific method proves something beyond all reasonable doubt, we take it as fact.

Atheists generally only have faith in hard evidence. Sometimes we have faith in humanity, but we are a sceptical bunch.

Atheists do not discriminate between private and public and public opinion on theism - we can't, as the difference just doesn't apply to us, we do not comprehend this difference.

Atheists have no organized behaviours - we all do our own thing, with our own motivations.

Atheists have no prayers. We have hopes and fears - but we know that our destiny is of our own making for the most part.

We do not need to congregate to share our lack of belief.

Atheists have no organisational structure, and therefore hierarchy is not applicable.

Atheists have no holy places, unless you count sites where mass murder in the name of religion took place - e.g. Ground Zero.

Atheists have no scriptures - only protests at being abused by theism formed in the written word. To normal people, these are known as books.

Atheism is NOT a religion - do not Troll by arguing that Atheism is one.

The Reverend Revenant.

edit on 18-1-2011 by The Revenant because: (no reason given)

edit on 18-1-2011 by The Revenant because: spellings!

edit on 18-1-2011 by The Revenant because: (no reason given)

I give a simple answer from a Christian. I don't care what atheism is, call it a religion a belief set, a myth, a delusion, the truth, good sense. It is a set of beliefs that one lives their life based on. Why care if they call it a religion, why is that term so offensive? Why do care if people you believe are delusional call it a religion (by the way, I don't give it that credit - I gave my definition). Believe what you want; but, don't waste your time worrying about those who view your belief to be a religion. Whether God exists or not, whoever is right, whether we call it a religion or not will not effect the outcome and we all die on this earth. Be well and chill.

Originally posted by Snorkelbacon
You have belief In the scientific theory, faith it will never fail, without any knowledge of future information that is unable to be attained yet. Not saying your wrong just pointing out the obvious what is true in science today is old news, proven wrong, proven right, expanded, revised, changed tomorrow. Truth in science is constently in flux. That's a historical fact.

We only know what we know today - - - with the knowledge available to us. Any scientist closing the door on discovery - - is an idiot - - in my opinion.

"A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky dangerous animals and you know it. Fifteen hundred years ago everybody knew the Earth was the center of the universe. Five hundred years ago, everybody knew the Earth was flat, and fifteen minutes ago, you knew that humans were alone on this planet. Imagine what you'll know tomorrow."

It's a religion, get over, your Gods are yourselves

reply to post by Cosmic.Artifact

a "doubter" suspects there is a God or wants to believe in a deity but only looking in the wrong form being that of a flying spaghetti or a human like being with white hair and fiery eyes.

As a doubter myself let me say that for me it goes the other way around.

I suspect that there is no god(s) and have no desire to believe in them unless I'm presented with evidence however because there is still the possibility one might exist out there I remain an agnostic-atheist.

I do not doubt the possibility of god(s) but I do doubt the existence of god(s) (in much the same way I doubt the existence of Bigfoot or Fairies) and the claims made regarding them by religious individuals.

reply to post by mattias

It's a religion, get over, your Gods are yourselves

I'm an atheist. I do not worship myself. Having an ego or being a narcissist are not traits found exclusively in atheists, I've met plenty of theists who were full of themselves. Making these sort of sweeping character assassinations is really a pretty pathetic tactic.

Most theists I've met believe that God created them in his image and that he loves them more than anything in the world and is focused almost solely upon the human race.

Meanwhile most atheists I've met believe we arose from natural processes on an ordinary pale blue dot in an ordinary corner of an ordinary Galaxy in a gargantuan Universe. We're not the center of anything.

Which one of these sounds to you like people are worshiping themselves?

There is a distinction, I think, between American and British concepts of what "a religion" is.

Britain has an established religion, and the head of state is the head of that established church. The United States, who violently separated themselves from Britain, haven't had anything like that for four or five generations now. Individual states stopped tax-supported religion in the 1830's, and the last religious tests for public office ended about 40 years later.

So, when an American court finds that atheism is a religion, they may well do so on the basis that a religion is whatever performs the function for some individual that religious worship performs for a believer. The focus is on the individual because it is the individual who has rights, not the religion.

When the matter comes up on an international board, British posters, and Commonwealth posters (who may be more culturally aligned with Britain than Americans are), recite all the things that established religions have, and atheism doesn't. Fixed bases, paid clergy, scheduled collective and individual rituals, hierarchy, procedurally approved doctrines, etc.

OK, both sides of the Atlantic can now join in a kumbaya moment. Atheism is not, and has never been, an established religion, at least nowhere in the English-speaking democracies.

But atheism does perform the functions for its adherents that other religions perform for their adherents. From the volume of postings here, atheism obviously provides lots of direction for how to spend your spare time, for example.

Whether a label is appropriate, whether a specific instance is to be viewed as a member of some larger category, is generally not a question of fact, but a question of usefulness or convenience. Metaphorical application is a bona fide candidate use. It is perfectly legitimate to ask "In what ways might it be useful for atheism to be viewed as a religion?"

Quite a few. Enough to have the practical result, the very practical result, that an American taxpayer can be compelled to pay for police protection for atheists while they blaspheme her God, slander her clergy, and accuse her of child abuse for mentioning God in her home, which she shares with her son, who is under the age of eighteen.

Just as she can be taxed for the protection of Quakers, adherents of another noncredal belief system, when they do the same things.

Originally posted by Titen-Sxull

As a doubter myself let me say that for me it goes the other way around.
I suspect that there is no god(s)

actually you question... for a definition... when the definition is "love"

or are you searching for a bearded man with fiery eyes ?

hint: you are looking up the wrong tree, but if you choose to "deny" love so be it.

most are only "active" resentful "deniers" not "doubters" or open-minded individuals.

Originally posted by Titen-Sxull
Most theists I've met believe that God created them in his image

yes I believe now God created humans to love one another and celebrate this existence.

Which one of these sounds to you like people are worshiping themselves?

people are worshiping love to others actually...

He that love not know not God; for God is love.

Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us

Beloved, if God so loved us, we ought also to love one another.

No man hath seen God at any time. If we love one another, God dwell in us, and his love is perfected in us.

1John 4

for if one does know love, indeed they know God...

Well this thread is dying, but that's never stopped me.

The problem, again, is semantics.

Atheists say "I don't believe in gods".
Theists say about atheists that "they believe there are no gods".

There in lies the problem. The atheists are saying there is lack of belief. The theists are saying there is belief. It's just a matter of wording.

HOWEVER, lack of belief is NOT belief (as stated a million times previously).

There is no good way to convince people of the above statement. There are an infinite number of things I don't believe in, but they don't encompass my "belief system" simply because I don't regard them.

It's hard to explain.

Originally posted by Cosmic.Artifact
reply to post by NadaCambia

 

I do not understand why you speak so openly your hate for Americans when in fact UK governmental institutions are enacting laws against Atheists speaking out, but American Law has already established for you the right and freedom to speak anything you want here.

You just can not challenge our establishments ruling as an institution, eg: the Church of Atheism Vs United States because we have separation of church and state...

America has seperation of Church and State, since when? Nobody could campaign for the Presidency as an open Atheist and win. You call this seperation of Church and State?

Furthermore, my statements weren't intended to insult. They were merely truthful observations. America is run by theocratic fascists. America has been bastardising the English language. I could maybe understand if I was spreading untruths, but I'm not. If these truths offend then blame your government, not me.

I'm not Anti-American, America is Anti-Me.

Originally posted by NadaCambia
America has seperation of Church and State, since when?

well quite literally since we have separated from the British church-state and established our own union here.

We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

United States Constitution

Nobody could campaign for the Presidency as an open Atheist and win.

since it is granted a freedom here in USA, the protections are afforded it, the only problem is not enough people have believed in it living under our common law and freedoms of thought and beliefs in order for Atheism to gain much momentum, it is in fact quite senseless...

Furthermore, my statements weren't intended to insult. They were merely truthful observations. America is run by theocratic fascists.

Americas fascist, will not imprison you for denouncing Christianity, but only if you break the law or do harm to others by it.

America has been bastardising the English language

actually there are only those who have become so small in their reach and in which their society is crumbling, they have only forgotten the roots of their version of the English language from lack of proper education, and true knowledge of that which established their society... I hear alot of people making open comments about how UK is already fallen and beyond redemption ?

quite simply, in the words of a respected Briton... Isaac Newton:

"Opposition to godliness is atheism in profession and idolatry in practice. Atheism is so senseless and odious to mankind that it never had many professors"

Plato

"Atheism is a disease of the soul before it becomes an error of understanding"

Marcus Tullius

"The habit of arguing in support of atheism, whether it be done from conviction or in pretense, is a wicked and impious practice"

Godspeed !

Originally posted by Cosmic.Artifact
since it is granted a freedom here in USA, the protections are afforded it, the only problem is not enough people have believed in it living under our common law and freedoms of thought and beliefs in order for Atheism to gain much momentum, it is in fact quite senseless...

Atheism probably hasn't gained momentum since it has no stated conversion goals and is not a religion and has no churches - and subsequently no tax free status by which to buy government lobbyists.

To address the point you responded to, an atheist president would likely be the best thing for this country even though at this point in history it's extremely unlikely one could be elected.

Originally posted by traditionaldrummer
To address the point you responded to, an atheist president would likely be the best thing for this country even though at this point in history it's extremely unlikely one could be elected.

If only.

I hope I live to see the day.

Originally posted by Annee

Originally posted by traditionaldrummer
To address the point you responded to, an atheist president would likely be the best thing for this country even though at this point in history it's extremely unlikely one could be elected.

If only.

I hope I live to see the day.

It is possible that Obama could be an atheist. However, he does kowtow to various religions as well as claim to be a christian, so in his case it wouldn't matter much.