Atheism is NOT a Religion - Accept this, move on.

reply to post by curious7


no, it is a belief, therefor, religious belief.

whether you and thousands others think different, you have a religion.

Originally posted by The Revenant
If you believe there is no God - you're an agnostic. If you KNOW there is no God, you're an atheist.

Using the word 'religion' to define your disbelief is a matter of semantics, but in my opinion, atheism is an act of faith. There is an elegance to the universe that suggests a higher order. To deny that is to express a 'belief' because there is no 'knowledge' available. You can't know.

Originally posted by fooks
reply to post by curious7

 

no, it is a belief, therefor, religious belief.

You seem to be missing an important point. Not believing something is not a belief.
Not jogging is not the same as jogging.

Originally posted by The Revenant
"Religion is a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of life and the universe, especially when considered as the creation of a supernatural agency, or human beings’ relation to that which they regard as holy, sacred, spiritual, or divine.

The key word there is especially. Note it doesn't say exclusively. I mean, atheists too have a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of life and the universe right? They believe its a causeless machine with no purpose, don't they? Do such beliefs qualify as metaphysical in any way?

Originally posted by JohnnyCanuck

Originally posted by The Revenant
If you believe there is no God - you're an agnostic. If you KNOW there is no God, you're an atheist.

Using the word 'religion' to define your disbelief is a matter of semantics, but in my opinion, atheism is an act of faith. There is an elegance to the universe that suggests a higher order. To deny that is to express a 'belief' because there is no 'knowledge' available. You can't know.

Atheism is not a matter of knowing something. It's a matter of not believing the claim that there are gods.

Atheism requires no more faith than not believing in Zeus, Thor or Isis, which very likely you do not believe in.

Originally posted by Student X
I mean, atheists too have a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of life and the universe right? They believe its a causeless machine with no purpose, don't they? Do such beliefs qualify as metaphysical in any way?

Atheism is the response to a single question: "are there gods?". Any issue beyond that, such as universe origins or purpose, is a personal matter.

reply to post by traditionaldrummer


Not if a community of atheists succumbs to groupthink. Then atheism becomes a bit more than that. All communities are vulnerable to groupthink. And yes I note high levels of groupthink when I visit atheist or "skeptic" forums.

en.wikipedia.org...

Originally posted by fooks
reply to post by curious7

 

no, it is a belief, therefor, religious belief.

whether you and thousands others think different, you have a religion.

Not really because I don't believe that I don't believe, I know that I don't believe.

To believe in something is to put blind faith and trust in something you may not be able to see, hear or touch, such as "I believe it's going to rain because the sky is overcast".

To know is to say "it's going to rain because there's a huge black cloud over here"

Huge difference between believing and knowing and personally, I know that I have no religion and that the facts, documents and other evidence proves that the Bible is based on earlier stories and myths mainly from the ancient Greeks and Babylonians

Originally posted by traditionaldrummer

Originally posted by SamTGonzalez
Atheism is pretty much the same thing as being agnostic, innit?

No.
Atheism is concerned with what one believes.
Agnosticism is concerned with what one knows.

I'm not sure I understand what you are trying to say.
From your perspective, what is the difference between the two?

This picture explains it well:

Originally posted by Student X
reply to post by traditionaldrummer

 

Not if a community of atheists succumbs to groupthink. Then atheism becomes a bit more than that. All communities are vulnerable to groupthink. And yes I note high levels of groupthink when I visit atheist or "skeptic" forums.

Whether atheists have similar beliefs beyond the One Big Question is irrelevant. There is no requirement that atheists follow any particular set of beliefs. For example, there are a group of atheists called Raelians who happen to be creationists, which is a largely unpopular view among a majority of atheists. Even if the majority of atheists all believe the same thing about, say, universe origins, it doesn't not make atheism a religion.

Originally posted by SamTGonzalez

Originally posted by traditionaldrummer

Originally posted by SamTGonzalez
Atheism is pretty much the same thing as being agnostic, innit?

No.
Atheism is concerned with what one believes.
Agnosticism is concerned with what one knows.

I'm not sure I understand what you are trying to say.
From your perspective, what is the difference between the two?

One concerns belief, the other knowledge.

Do you believe there are gods? If yes, you're a theist, if no, you're an atheist.
Do you know there are gods? If yes, you're a gnostic, if no, you're an agnostic.

You can be an agnostic atheist: you don't believe there's gods but you don't know for sure.
You can be a gnostic theist: you believe there are gods because you know that they exist.

reply to post by The Revenant

Atheism is NOT a religion - do not Troll by arguing that Atheism is one.

It´s not a religion in the traditional sense, but atheism, in a broad sense, is the rejection of belief in the existence of deities. Simply said it´s a belief in the non-existence of Deities. And according to this Source

In the United States, atheism is considered equivalent to religion under the First Amendment's Free Exercise Clause.

Also you might also want to check the First Chruch of Atheism.

As a legally ordained minister, you will be able to perform weddings, funerals, commitment ceremonies, and other functions that are reserved for members of clergy.

So if Atheism is not a religion, then why is the need for a church??

Peace

For all intents and purposes, atheism is not a religion -- it lacks the basis that religion provides. Some theists like to slap the label on atheists, because they think that it's a point of argument, but it's really not, and I don't see the value of making such a claim, anyway.

That said, one can see how some non-believers provide a basis for making such a claim, and I think that a point might be made that, perhaps, an atheistic "religion" may be forming, with all the dogma, doctrine and organization. In the end, if such a thing happens it wouldn't necessarily be a religion, per se, but it would certainly blur the lines between faith and non-faith oriented organizations.

This does not apply to many (probably most) atheists, rather a subset that is adamantly evangelical and intolerant.

For these people, simply saying "I don't believe in God" and letting it go at that, or saying "adjensen is a Christian, good for him, glad that he's happy with it" are not accepted practices. Instead, it is "I am enlightened, you are not, and you need to be" and a simple "I don't believe in God" convinces no one other than yourself. So reasoned arguments, dogma, a set of beliefs, and other trappings of religion, which are often decried, emerge.

Again, this does not apply to most atheists, at least not that I've seen, but if you do not wish to be labelled as an evangelical, the best course is to stop acting like one. Few curling clubs or stamp collectors actively preach hate against people who don't belong to their club, or dream of the day when everyone on Earth agrees that curling or stamp collecting are the only way to go.

reply to post by Maslo


Hmm.....I seem to be an agnostic theist. Learn something new every day, apologies to fooks if I came across as argumentative or confrontational.

Star for that image

Originally posted by The Revenant

Atheism is not belief in one's self. That's called self-confidence, and is a very different thing. You're talking semantics here.

Rev.

See? Even you agree with me that atheism is all about beliefs, even NON beliefs, which in the end, is still a 'belief' system. And within that system will it builds your religion, not semantics - a system of beliefs that you use daily in your interaction with yourself when you look at the mirror and to others.

And within that system of beliefs- religion, is where you find comfort and solace, not from some higher authority that you don't BELIEVE in, but only within yourSELF, as well as to gather adherents to your system of beliefs. Thus, viola! Your religion! :-P

PS: There is nothing wrong in it as some posters had already pointed out. Your religion does not make you any lesser than anyone of us, so long as you hurt or harm no one. It is your gifted free will, and when you truly seeked which is your own personal journey, you will find as billions others before had found.

Cheers!

Originally posted by traditionaldrummer

Originally posted by SamTGonzalez

Originally posted by traditionaldrummer

Originally posted by SamTGonzalez
Atheism is pretty much the same thing as being agnostic, innit?

No.
Atheism is concerned with what one believes.
Agnosticism is concerned with what one knows.

I'm not sure I understand what you are trying to say.
From your perspective, what is the difference between the two?

One concerns belief, the other knowledge.

Do you believe there are gods? If yes, you're a theist, if no, you're an atheist.
Do you know there are gods? If yes, you're a gnostic, if no, you're an agnostic.

You can be an agnostic atheist: you don't believe there's gods but you don't know for sure.
You can be a gnostic theist: you believe there are gods because you know that they exist.

Thanks for clearing that up, friend.
I'm not sure I fall into any of those categories.
Like I stated before, I think "God" is the universe in its entirety...
The highest dimension and conciousness that we are all contained in, if you will.
I don't really care enough to think past that.
Maybe we'll know after we die.
Maybe we won't.
To me, there is no use in arguing over such things.
Why don't we all just live and enjoy life while we still can?

Originally posted by traditionaldrummer
Do you know there are gods? If yes, you're a gnostic, if no, you're an agnostic.

I think that we've been down this road before, TD, but the first part of your statement is incorrect. I'm not sure what term might be applied to one who claims to know that there is a God, but it cannot be "gnostic", as that describes a very specific set of beliefs, and has been so applied for over 2,000 years.

The error was in the use of the term "agnostic" to mean not knowing, because it implies the connection to "gnostic", which is incorrect. Were the term not misapplied, I could consider myself an "agnostic Christian", because I am a Christian who does not believe in gnosticism.

Maybe "aagnostic" would do

personally, i couldn't care less whether anyone labels christians or athiests or any other a religion.
i think they are more than welcome to do so, and i also believe that religion is in ones heart, whether denying the existence of a god or standing on a street corner telling people they are not religious due to the simple fact they don't believe in the same god you do.

i see this entire subject as a perfect divide and conquer issue.
keep seperating yourselves from one another and the power is gone.
poof, no more.

Originally posted by traditionaldrummer

Originally posted by Student X
reply to post by traditionaldrummer

 

Not if a community of atheists succumbs to groupthink. Then atheism becomes a bit more than that. All communities are vulnerable to groupthink. And yes I note high levels of groupthink when I visit atheist or "skeptic" forums.

Whether atheists have similar beliefs beyond the One Big Question is irrelevant. There is no requirement that atheists follow any particular set of beliefs. For example, there are a group of atheists called Raelians who happen to be creationists, which is a largely unpopular view among a majority of atheists. Even if the majority of atheists all believe the same thing about, say, universe origins, it doesn't not make atheism a religion.

All that could be said about theists, so I think you're missing the point. Sociological forces are the "requirement". A skeptic who believes in psychic ability will not fit in at JREF. Not because there is a "requirement" that skeptics reject psychic ability, but because of JREF sociological factors - groupthink. An atheist mystic will not fit in at Richard Dawkins website, not because atheists can't be mystics (they can) but because of the very same sociological forces which operate in a religious community.

But even so, I wouldn't call atheism a religion. I would call it a dysfunctional mythology.