Should Mexican Cartels Be Labeled Terrorist Organizations?

reply to post by manta78


Should they be designated terrorists?

Sure, I bet the Military Industrial Complex would love more target practice for it's drones.

Simple Question

Should they be taken down ?

Price to pay ?

Is the public willing to accept that and at what cost ?

Do we have means ?

Should we defend our borders regardless of nationality ?

Heres an idea; instead of fighting another international war:

the State of Mexico should be annexed into the United States of America.

let the People of the States of America and Mexico join together in the name of a better Life.

the Modernization and Expansion of the Mexican Economy could be just the thing needed for an American Boom.

113 million new taxpayers; new tech market; new housing; new resource grids.

the American Economy has stalled, we need a new Front to Expand to.

Manifest Destiny.

the State of Mexico could provide the failing States exactly what is needed: POSITIVE FOCUS.

Originally posted by AkaAlternate
Heres an idea; instead of fighting another international war:

the State of Mexico should be annexed into the United States of America.

let the People of the States of America and Mexico join together in the name of a better Life.

the Modernization and Expansion of the Mexican Economy could be just the thing needed for an American Boom.

113 million new taxpayers; new tech market; new housing; new resource grids.

the American Economy has stalled, we need a new Front to Expand to.

Manifest Destiny.

the State of Mexico could provide the failing States exactly what is needed: POSITIVE FOCUS.

Mexican Drug running operation in comparison to the global crisis falls short to how thing go bump. If its nation EVER decided to handle its issue without U.S. resources it would have done so a long time ago. So.....what if the U.N. entered Mexico.....think of it as reality.....its simply a matter of time..!

reply to post by manta78


Obviously your point as op is most anticipated !

These cartels are not just a border problem as many people believe. The Mexican drug cartels are continuing their expansion of territory deeper into the United States; Will your state be next?

Mexican Cartels Setting Up Shop Across U.S.
By Richard A. Serrano, Washington Bureau

6:59 p.m. AKDT, April 17, 2011

Frediberto Pineda, a member of the Sinaloa cartel, was sentenced to 20 years in prison for heading a coc aine operation in South Carolina's capital. Similar outposts have popped up in Seattle, Anchorage and Minneapolis.

Reporting from Columbia, S.C.— The house on Knightner Road is small, blue and white, with a stone front porch and a string of Christmas lights still hanging. Here, crack coc aine was sold to drive-up customers a few miles from the state Capitol in Columbia.

The one on Pound Road in rural Gaston, just south of Columbia, is a brown-and-white trailer, with a gravel driveway and woods out back. Here, federal law enforcement officers surprised Frediberto Pineda, who had 10 kilos of coc aine worth $350,000 in his possession.

Six months went by between the first FBI inquiries into coc aine trafficking at the house on Knightner Road and Pineda's arrest. But for the bureau, he was a prize worth waiting for. A member of Mexico's Sinaloa cartel, he had quietly settled in central South Carolina, put down roots and began managing one of the gang's new outposts in the United States.

As the cartels expand up and out from the Southwest border, they are sending waves of men like Pineda, many of them trained in Mexico, to run their U.S. operations. In the last few years, they have established a prosperous retail industry, with cartels staking out "market territories," lining up smuggling routes, and renting storage bins and drug houses.

Source: www.ktuu.com...

reply to post by manta78


Please remind me... whats so great about labeling people? Seriously, you must have some reason you want to label people and I'd like to know what it is.

reply to post by civilchallenger


I suggest you start reading this thread from page one and maybe you
will understand.....

Originally posted by manta78
reply to post by civilchallenger

 

I suggest you start reading this thread from page one and maybe you
will understand.....

Done... nowhere in the whole thread does anyone ever explain the benefits of labeling the cartels as terrorists. So, once again, why do you want to label them terrorists? What does that accomplish?

reply to post by civilchallenger


Despite the obvious reasons to label Mexican drug cartels as terrorists....if you had actually read all the comments and watched the posted videos within the thread, you would understand why; perhaps this section from page three of this thread will give you a clue:

"He further states some of the specific goals of this legislation:" (translation: reasons/benefits for labeling them as terrorists)

I have introduced legislation requiring the State Department to classify drug cartels as foreign terror organizations as a means to limit the groups' financial, property and travel interests.

This designation could:

- Bring separate charges against anyone providing "material support or resources" to FTOs. This includes, but is not limited to, money, identification, lodging, training, weapons and transportation.

- Provide an additional penalty of up to 15 years in prison and possible fine for providing material support or resources. A life sentence may be imposed if their actions resulted in death. This penalty is levied in addition to penalties for any associated crime.

- Authorize the deportation of any foreign member of an FTO from the United States even if they are in this country legally.

- Require banks to freeze any funds tied to FTOs.

Cartels kidnap, kill and mutilate innocent civilians, elected officials and law enforcement, using gruesome tactics to intimidate government officials and citizens to abide by their rules. Torture, beheadings, dismembering and mutilation are common.

We must secure our borders. We must intensify southbound inspections to seize weapons and cash that arm and fund drug-trafficking organizations. The United States funnels an estimated $25 billion to $30 billion a year into Mexico, which funds the cartels. We should seize this money, then use it against the cartels by paying for U.S. border-security operations.

I have visited our troops in Iraq, Afghanistan and Pakistan. But the last time I visited the El Paso Intelligence Center and requested to go across the border to Juarez, the State Department told me they could not guarantee my safety.

It is time for the United States to show a serious commitment to this war on our doorstep.

Originally posted by manta78
reply to post by civilchallenger

 

The United States funnels an estimated $25 billion to $30 billion a year into Mexico, which funds the cartels. We should seize this money, then use it against the cartels by paying for U.S. border-security operations.

US banks no longer satisfied in just laundering Mexico's drug money and would just rather seize it now?

www.abovetopsecret.com...
www.guardian.co.uk...

More shocking, and more important, the bank was sanctioned for failing to apply the proper anti-laundering strictures to the transfer of $378.4bn – a sum equivalent to one-third of Mexico's gross national product...

A little Mexican vacation money?? Wachovia paid dearly, $160m in forfeits and fines for their... oversight?? Care to do the math on that one?

You drug warriors have quite a racket going. I can see why you would want to perpetuate your game. I would rather just call-off the war but that drug game seems to be keeping your banks solvent. And that was just ONE US bank, mind you.

If you must apply the label don't you have the slightest inkling to apply to the instigators of the whole mess, those that perpetrated and perpetuate the maddness? Or would that hurt run a bit too deep?

Originally posted by Erongaricuaro
Labelling them as terrorists would be a ploy to secure international backing to support favorite "criminal" organizations' quest to corner all the profits gained through prohibition policies.

We don't need to name the favorite organization(s), you vote for (or against) them. Perpetuating prohibition perpetuates the crime and damage done by it. Clearly, the cure is worse than the disease. I don't look forward to your troops kicking in my doors to make sure my family is being compliant.

My city has been named in this thread. Until Calderon started his crusade we were just a sleepy burg, but things started getting bad when someone decided to "fix" it. Now a number of you want to send American troops in to support your puritan campaign and make sure we use only your favorite and sanctioned recreational substance, alcohol. Right! You know what it would take to put the criminals out of business - that includes the elected and sanctioned criminals in this game. It would take granting people ownership over their own bodies. Such liberty would be unconscienable to you slavers.

Most of the time things are quiet here in Morelia, life goes on as usual. Other times things just aren't so pretty when TPTB pits forces against the people. One thing I will say is at least the Mexican people still largely have the cojones to stand up against government oppression.

Who are the terrorists then? Not the oppressors, you tell me, but rather those battling against the oppression?

edit on 6-2-2011 by Erongaricuaro because: (no reason given)

Who are you? Are you a law abiding citizen of Mexico or are you a member of a Drug Cartel?

In my opinion labeling the drug cartels terrorists would grant power to international forces to help stop the cartels. You seem to think that it would open a way for more corruption.

A puritan campaign? Where do you get this stuff? Hey, I don't care what your cartels do on your side of the border but when they cross the border and do it on American soil I have to draw the line. You guys can smoke all the pot you want over there. I don't think anyone here is going to seek to stop you. that's between you and your government.

You seem to claim that you get a lot of oppression from the government. That's sad and should be rectified. No American troop is going to go bust down your door to see if you are complying with anything. If you have no ties to the cartels, you have nothing to worry about.

You seem to indicate that the drug cartels are the ones fighting against a corrupt government and thus are the good guys? Am I reading you right?

So, You condone the use of terrorist tactics against Americans across the border from you by the drug cartels? I'm just trying to understand your post here.

I have read reports of the drug cartels coming into smaller Mexican towns and killing all the police robbing all the houses and keeping the towns people in fear for their lives on an ongoing basis. Many times these things spill over into towns that are adjoining the USA or are just over the border. Do you think that these things should be allowed to continue? These Mexican drug cartels do rape and kill lots of innocent people. That is a fact. It's happening in your country and mine. It's growing, and it must be stopped for both our peoples sake.

I would support an international effort to stop these drug cartels. If need be, I would support small tactical bombs to pinpoint the areas where the cartels hide in the hills and mountains and kill them. I would support walls along our borders 6 feet thick and 50 feet high with snipers positioned to shoot anyone who tries to cross illegally. I would support raids on cartel bases to gather intelligence to trace their activities to see who else they are working with and also go after them. We must protect our people, Mexican people must act in accordance with your laws. If your laws and government is corrupt and you need help, formally ask other countries for help. It's not about the governments and the big corporations, it's about the common people. They need to be protected able to live without fear.

reply to post by manta78


"These cartels are not just a border problem as many people believe. The Mexican drug cartels are continuing their expansion of territory deeper into the United States; Will your state be next? "

I'm not scared of drug cartels.. or terrorists.

Since wicked potent weed is cheap and readily available to anyone who wants it around here, a predictable change took place: violent gang related crime went down. Way down. City wide

Look it up.

Go to LAPDs website at .lapdonline.org, research the crime stats relative to proto-legalization of marijuana.. maybe check out LA Sheriffs' stats as well. Caution: the pungent aroma of reality can be mind opening.

The so called "cartels" did 2 main things:

Went legit. Got business licenses and opened MJ dispensaries hiring trusted homies / cholos. Minor corner squabbles, ego inspired sword fights and other territorial pissings all but vanished as a result of being bad for business.

Focused more on local growing / hydro.. why smuggle long distances what can easily be hydro grown around the corner?. requiring they fuel the economy renting houses & apartments. Guess who gets hired to maintain a low profile while growing?.. trusted fellow gangsters who sit around playing x-box eating Doritos.

reply to post by manta78


Ah, so the point was buried somewhere on page three and I did miss it. It was notably missing from the link provided in the OP, where it belonged.

Bringing additional charges, penalties, and consequences is highlighted as the top points. As usual, the problem and solution are not attempted to be matched in any way. Who ever showed that additional penalties or charges are an effective way of stopping terrorists? Your link in the article refers to people given hammers and ordered to pummel each other. And the way to stop that is the threat of extra charges and jailtime? Legislators are morons and that is why politicians never accomplish anything.

As for requiring banks to freeze any funds tied to FTOs, the US government already seizes drug money.

Like the article states, the cartels KILL PEOPLE. KILL THEM. The penalty for that is already life in prison or even execution in some states. The purpose in applying the label is a complete joke just as I expected.

This same exact situation with gang violence spiraling out of control occurred in the 1920's when alcohol was outlawed. The solution worked spectacularly. The solution was ending prohibition. By applying that same solution that already is shown to work we can get the same results today.

The solution to less war is more often than not declaring peace rather than escalating the situation. Its time to declare PEACE on drugs! The USA is already on the path to self-destruction from its other wars. The USA loves wars and its clearly destroying the USA over the long term just like happened with the Soviet Union.

The same solutions that have always worked in the past will continue to work in the future. But don't waste your time telling that to legislators who have a "new" type of war they can wage.

Originally posted by JohnPhoenix
In my opinion labeling the drug cartels terrorists would grant power to international forces to help stop the cartels. You seem to think that it would open a way for more corruption.

Yes, prohibition tends to promote corruption. Well, that is a severe understatement, I don't believe prohibition exists without corruption.

No American troop is going to go bust down your door to see if you are complying with anything. If you have no ties to the cartels, you have nothing to worry about.

Such clamoring for invasion into Mexico, would that be a guarantee that American troops would not bust down doors of innocent people? US invasions I have seen elsewhere seem to offer no such protection

I would support an international effort to stop these drug cartels. If need be, I would support small tactical bombs to pinpoint the areas where the cartels hide in the hills and mountains and kill them. It's not about the governments and the big corporations, it's about the common people. They need to be protected able to live without fear.

This is Mexico not Afghanistan, the people and the cartels tend to live in urbanized areas. And it IS about governments and big corporations, the ones who keep this prohibition in place. Big US banks, in fact, seem just fine with the status quo.

Keep your tactical bombs, please. Use them to protect your border if you must, but to protect the "common people" on all sides of any of the world's borders let's just stop the insanity and horrendous profits and end prohibition, at least with pot which is 90% of the trade and what many people want. Prohibition is unenforceable and creates corruption. There are better ways to deal with a perceived health issue than with bombs. Fighting it with full military interventions and powers of government is overkill and has either profit-making or puritanical motives.

reply to post by GovtFlu


That is excellent news and came with a highly predictable outcome. I was not sure I would ever see it in my lifetime. Southern California was my home and where I was born and grew up in the states. I haven't been outside of Mexico since 2007 so have not seen that change but am very glad to hear about it from you.

¡Que te vaya bien!

Continued updates on the Mexican cartel expansion within the U.S. contained within the articles here:

Mexican Drug Cartels Operating in at Least 1,286 U.S. Cities

Written by Kelly Holt
Tuesday, 19 April 2011 11:03

On April 13, All Headline News reported that the influence of Mexican drug cartels operating in U.S. cities, is growing because cartel members are becoming residents. Roberta Jacobson, Deputy Secretary of State for Mexico and Canada, brought this information to a political forum in Washington, D.C., quoting a March 27 report from the Justice Department. The findings are also being widely disseminated in the Mexican media.

The National Drug Intelligence Center (NDIC) report, according to Jacobson, listed the cartels with the most influence in the U.S. as follows: the Sinaloa cartel, operating in 75 U.S. cities; the Gulf and Zetas cartels, both in 37 cities; the Juarez, in 33 cities; the Beltran Leyva Organization, in 30; La Familia, in 27; and Tijuana, in 21. This list contains the largest and most widely known cartels; the Zetas organization, comprised mostly of Mexican Army special forces soldiers, is considered to be one of the most vicious. The unnamed cities are all said to have seen a substantial increase in drug sales and violence.

Source: www.thenewamerican.com...

And from borderlandbeat.com:

Mexican Cartels Migrating to the USA
Monday, April 11, 2011

The emergence of a new cell from La Familia Michoacana calling themselves "Los Caballeros Templarios," The Knights Templar. Not known by most US authorities. A picture of the arsenal and propaganda seized by Mexican police.

Mexico's cartel members, their families and their associates have been moving to various cities in the United States along the border to live, to the extent that these criminal groups have expanded their operations on American soil, warned a declassified alert of the National Drug Intelligence Center (NDIC).

The alert cautioned that efforts by Mexican drug trafficking organizations (DTO's) to expand their operations in the United States has been the cause of increased violence across the southwest.

Information from the Center Intelligence indicates that Mexico's cartels are operating in at least 1,286 cities in the nine regions.

Of all these cities, in 143 operations of drug trafficking are entirely controlled directly by the members of the cartels in Mexico.

It is noted that the Sinaloa cartel operates in at least 75 U.S. cities, the Gulf Cartel and the Zetas at least 37 cities, Juarez has been established in 33 cities, that of the Beltrán Leyva in 30, "La Familia Michoacana" in at least 27, and Tijuana in 21 cities.

Source: www.borderlandbeat.com...

From DallasNews.com on why Mexican drug cartels should be considered FTO's:

Why Mexico's cartels must be labeled as the terrorists they are
ByTod Robberson

2:17 PM on Mon., Apr. 18, 2011

"More than 150 Mexican news outlets have reported over the past week about the controversy surrounding Ambassador Arturo Sarukhan's unusual defense of his nation's most murderous drug cartels as being like businessmen who engage in "mergers" and "hostile takeovers." His remarks were prompted by a Dallas Morning News editorial supporting a bill by Rep. Michael McCaul, of Austin, to put the six biggest drug cartels on the State Department's list of Foreign Terrorist Organizations."

Well that statement Mr. Ambassador, has got to top the list as one of the ten most stupid comments made in 2011....at least to date.......congratulations........

And Robberson also states:

"Mexico's drug cartels deserve to be on this list. When someone goes to the trouble -- repeatedly -- to kill people and saw off their arms and legs, then dump the corpses on the street, that person is trying very deliberately to terrorize a population. When corpses are hung from overpasses to send a message to everyone who sees it, that's terrorism. When 35,000 people are killed in six years, and entire cities show no activity on the streets after dusk because of the fear of being murdered or kidnapped, that's terrorism. When the same groups go after journalists, police officers, soldiers and public officials -- killing and/or torturing anyone who gets in their way, that's terrorism."

Source: dallasmorningviewsblog.dallasnews.com...

It is a rough call I can see it going either way really, it's just such a slippery slope to reclassify

Originally posted by AkaAlternate
Heres an idea; instead of fighting another international war:

the State of Mexico should be annexed into the United States of America.

let the People of the States of America and Mexico join together in the name of a better Life.

the Modernization and Expansion of the Mexican Economy could be just the thing needed for an American Boom.

113 million new taxpayers; new tech market; new housing; new resource grids.

the American Economy has stalled, we need a new Front to Expand to.

Manifest Destiny.

the State of Mexico could provide the failing States exactly what is needed: POSITIVE FOCUS.

HELL NO!
Are you out of your mind?
I would literally leave this country if we "joined with mexico".