Should Mexican Cartels Be Labeled Terrorist Organizations?

Yes, they are indeed terrorists...

Bodies in barrels.... Cities interrupted with commandeed jack knifed trailers, political officials being assassinated left and right....

Definitely terrorists

Which is easier, labeling them as terrorist and spending more resources/money fighting them or finding a way to decrease the profits they can make?

IMO, the latter. The so called war on drugs is a failure and in need of a major overhaul. Of course we know that isn't going to happen because many legal organizations are making a killing off the drug war.

If we label them terrorist, it is just a continuation of the war on terrorism we are currently in. The cartels will adapt to the changes and will always have more poor recruits willing to step up to the plate in hope of making good money.

Well if they dicide to make them terrorists, then they should also make the U.S., the C.I.A, and alll other governments in all other countries terrorists.The governments of the world are the one's that allow this sort of crap. But when an inividual stands up to fight it, they are considered enemies of the state. If you go against people of this nature you win and lose. If you don't, you still win and lose. Either way, it is the people that must change their governments in order to stop this s#ht from entering our borders, where ever those borders might be. I can't see them being considered as terrorists. There is too much money to be made on all scales, from the C.I.A. to the local police officer.

The Mexican drug cartels should have been designated terrorists and "enemy combatants" from day one that DHS was formed. (Note that all of the listed organizations appear to be Arab/ Muslim, which makes me wonder if it is really about exploiting the energy in the Middle East, NOT "terrorism". I find it particularly annoying that "terrorism" in thre form of highjackings or kidnappings has never been limited to Middle Easterners- e.g. Greek Cypriots in the 60s/ early 70s, the Japanese group that released Sarin gas in Japan, Symbionese Liberation Army, and Randall Terry's anti abortion group. Just to name a few. I would call the Westboro Baptist Church bunch terrorists, but they haven't killed anybody. Yet)

Could it be that by recognizing them for what they are, we might have to do something about our wide open southern border? (Obviously, only a rhetorical question). Illegals coming into this country, unencumbered, serves more than one politically powerful interest in the US.

Why haven't gang members/ leaders- especially La Familia/ the Mexican Mafia who run crime from *within* prison been sent to GITMO? Why aren't members of street gangs also designated enemy combatants and terrorists? I would defer to one of our resident LEOs to clarify it, but aren't they the epitome of "terroristic threat" (which has existed long before the terrorist thing began in 2001).
If we're going to do this, it needs to be done right, not half-assed.

If one still isn't convinced, a Chief of Police in Nuevo Laredo across the border from Laredo, Texas has just been murdered- again, after barely a month (33 days) on the job.

www.ksat.com...

from 2005 (source Telegraph UK, but with commentary)

www.rense.com...

Labelling them as terrorists would be a ploy to secure international backing to support favorite "criminal" organizations' quest to corner all the profits gained through prohibition policies.

We don't need to name the favorite organization(s), you vote for (or against) them. Perpetuating prohibition perpetuates the crime and damage done by it. Clearly, the cure is worse than the disease. I don't look forward to your troops kicking in my doors to make sure my family is being compliant.

My city has been named in this thread. Until Calderon started his crusade we were just a sleepy burg, but things started getting bad when someone decided to "fix" it. Now a number of you want to send American troops in to support your puritan campaign and make sure we use only your favorite and sanctioned recreational substance, alcohol. Right! You know what it would take to put the criminals out of business - that includes the elected and sanctioned criminals in this game. It would take granting people ownership over their own bodies. Such liberty would be unconscienable to you slavers.

Most of the time things are quiet here in Morelia, life goes on as usual. Other times things just aren't so pretty when TPTB pits forces against the people. One thing I will say is at least the Mexican people still largely have the cojones to stand up against government oppression.

Who are the terrorists then? Not the oppressors, you tell me, but rather those battling against the oppression?

Here's a commentary from last year on the Mexican cartel problem entitled:

"Don't Go to Mexico...Right Now"

Commentary by 432 AT/FP
Chief, 432d Wing Anti-Terrorism & Force Protection

"5/19/2010 - CREECH AFB, Nev. -- Mexico is an amazing place. As far as I'm concerned, they have amazing cuisine. If I had to choose one type of food to eat for the rest of my life, I'd choose Mexican food. Mexico also has amazing history. The ancient Mayan and Aztec civilizations were remarkably ahead of their time, and they left impressive stone pyramids and artifacts as a testament to their abilities. Most of all, the Mexican people are amazing. I've never encountered a friendlier or more welcoming population than during my travels to Mexico. That said, for those of you who are considering a vacation to our great neighbor to the south, I have two words for you: "don't go" ... right now."

And continues to state:

"Even though the country technically isn't at war, Mexico has been entrenched in one of the bloodiest and deadliest battles in its entire history since 2006. Violent drug cartels have been battling each other and government forces for control over lucrative drug (and human) smuggling corridors that transit Mexico between Central America and the U.S. To call these drug cartels violent is a horrible understatement ... terrorists would be a more appropriate description."

Thank you for your comments Chief!


Source: www.creech.af.mil...

Yes.

I bet the U.N. countries heavily involved in the drug trade will try to veto Mexico.

Found this very detailed 84 page report entitled: "Crime Wars Gangs, Cartels and U.S. National Security" from September of 2010

From the introduction:

"Criminal networks linking cartels and gangs are no longer simply a crime problem, but a threat that is metastasizing into a new form of widespread,networked criminal insurgency.The scale and violence of these networks threaten civil governments and civil societies in the Western Hemisphere and, increasingly, the United States as well. American policymakers have been slow to recognize the evolution of the drug cartels and gangs from purely law enforcement problems to the strategic threat they now pose. Drug trafficking is variously described solely in terms of a drug problem, a challenge to other countries or a problem for states along the United States' southern border. Drug trafficking groups are, in fact, a threat across all these categories – they are part of networks attacking the United States and other friendly countries on many fronts.

Although the U.S. government is currently implementing measures to address the separate pieces of this problem – for example, deploying National Guard units to the border – it has yet to craft a truly comprehensive domestic and foreign strategy to confront the inter-related challenges of trafficking and violence reaching from the Andean Ridge to American streets.

This report is the product of a yearlong study by the Center for a New American Security (CNAS). It seeks to explain the scale of organized crime in key countries in the Western Hemisphere and provide elements of such a strategy.

We make these observations based on research and analysis of regional trends as well as conversations with government and law enforcement officials, in the United States and abroad, on the front lines of this fight.

The first section presents the geography of crime in Latin America, outlining how the criminal networks in Mexico, Colombia, Venezuela and other countries in between pose a common problem for the region and the United States. While the circumstances and potential futures of each Crime Wars Gangs, Cartels and U.S. National Security country differ, they are linked.

The following section shows how the same networks are also active and growing within the United States, posing the need for domestic as well as foreign action. The last section of this study recommends principles to guide a national strategy against cartels and gangs.

Finally, to make the point that illegal drug trafficking is not the cartels’ only business, the appendix summarizes the major kinds of illicit commerce that support organized criminal groups in this hemisphere.

Five conclusions emerge from the study.

First, crime, terrorism and insurgency are interwoven in new and dangerous ways that threaten not just the welfare but also the security of societies in the Western Hemisphere. Scale and the capability to destabilize governments have made the cartels an insurgent threat as well as a criminal one. The United States must lead a hemisphere-wide effort to confront and defeat the cartels’ threat to civil society.

Second, the huge geographic scope of the criminal networks makes this challenge multinational. Cartels operate in at least 14 sovereign countries, each with its own culture, economy, government, law enforcement, justice and military establishment, transportation hubs and routes. Cartel operations also vary widely, so U.S. and other states’ responses must become as adaptable as the criminal insurgencies they confront. Governments must leverage international and regional organizations to bridge gaps and ensure continuity of operations from state to state.

Third, any U.S. strategic effort must include appropriate assistance to Latin American states to strengthen security and law enforcement institutions. The ultimate response to terrorism and insurgency is the rule of law, and justice under the law, for people...."

To read more go here: www.cnas.org...

Originally posted by Erongaricuaro
Labelling them as terrorists would be a ploy to secure international backing to support favorite "criminal" organizations' quest to corner all the profits gained through prohibition policies.

We don't need to name the favorite organization(s), you vote for (or against) them. Perpetuating prohibition perpetuates the crime and damage done by it. Clearly, the cure is worse than the disease.
My city has been named in this thread. Until Calderon started his crusade we were just a sleepy burg, but things started getting bad when someone decided to "fix" it. Now a number of you want to send American troops in to support your puritan campaign and make sure we use only your favorite and sanctioned recreational substance, alcohol. Right! You know what it would take to put the criminals out of business - that includes the elected and sanctioned criminals in this game. It would take granting people ownership over their own bodies. Such liberty would be unconscienable to you slavers.

Most of the time things are quiet here in Morelia, life goes on as usual. Other times things just aren't so pretty when TPTB pits forces against the people. One thing I will say is at least the Mexican people still largely have the cojones to stand up against government oppression.

Who are the terrorists then? Not the oppressors, you tell me, but rather those battling against the oppression?

edit on 6-2-2011 by Erongaricuaro because: (no reason given)

Have you stopped to think that we don't want your people drugging, killing, raping our children and citizens and all the other criminal activities that go a long with the Mexican cartel/immigration problem. If Mexico could deal with their own problems or keep them on their side of the street than we don't need to be their do we? If the citizens have the large cajones you say they have, then why don't they stand up and fix the problems in their own country instead of turning their backs and heading North. Seems more to do with the lack of willingness and effort to fix your own problems than it does heuvos my friend.
Mexico's trying their hardest to make their problems ours and we do have a large part in it but it gets old hearing Mexico blame us for all their problems and corruption. If you don't like what Calderon's doing then get rid of him or maybe the citizens could stand up against the govt/cartel. I know it would be bloody but nothing worth having is free, better than living in fear the rest of your life.

Originally posted by mtnshredder:
Mexico's trying their hardest to make their problems ours and we do have a large part in it but it gets old hearing Mexico blame us for all their problems and corruption. If you don't like what Calderon's doing then get rid of him or maybe the citizens could stand up against the govt/cartel. I know it would be bloody but nothing worth having is free, better than living in fear the rest of your life.

I believe standing up against the govt. is the gist of what I was saying. That is the general reason for the highway blockades. Not pretty? No. Some think it is necessary to stop govt oppression though.

You speak of fear. Your speech is colored with fear.

Have you stopped to think that we don't want your people drugging, killing, raping our children and citizens and all the other criminal activities that go a long with the Mexican cartel/immigration problem. If Mexico could deal with their own problems or keep them on their side of the street than we don't need to be their do we?

You are blaming Mexico for the US being the most drug-consumming nation in the world? Mexico made you into addicts, funny. Quit buying drugs and Mexicans will quit selling them to you.

Mexican border towns grew into large cities during US alcohol prohibition era courtesy of US drug tourists. I would favor a similar policy today.

You speak of fear. Your speech is colored with fear.

I am fearful and concerned for the health of our country and your's too. If you research the criminal stats of the Cartel and immigration problems that we are facing in Mexico and the states, they're staggering and are making a huge negative impact on both country's but you can't blame them all on American's doing drugs. That's nothing but propaganda to blame the US for all of Mexico's problems. Like I said in my earlier post the US has a large part to play in Mexico's problems, it's definitely not just Mexico's doing.

You are blaming Mexico for the US being the most drug-consumming nation in the world? Mexico made you into addicts, funny. Quit buying drugs and Mexicans will quit selling them to you

.

No not blaming Mexico for our drug problems but I could present the same scenario to you; Stop importing, selling and manufacturing drugs and we won't buy them.
If our govt/police was as corrupt as Mexico's, we wouldn't need to buy drugs from Mexico cause they could make them here (although I'm sure we would out source that too). If Mexico had the same tenacity in the past to bust drug dealers, manufacturers and regulate chemicals used in the manufacturing of drugs as we do here, neither country would be faced with a lot of the issues that we are. You would have a lower homicide rate and we would have less junkies and crackheads. What I see now is that the corruption has been allowed to go on for so many decades that it's accepted, a way of life and probably the largest form of revenue Mexico has, that's not going to change over night, if ever. I doubt the Cartel's going to be sitting in church pews anytime soon, they're criminals, and they do what criminals do best, commit crimes regardless of what they are.
The US is one of the largest manufacturers of weapons in the world, guess who's buying our guns? Mexico has some of the toughest gun laws in the world but they also hold the title for the murder capital of the world and one of the most violent countries in the world. It's very comparable and linked to the drug situation; Stop killing each other and we'll quit selling you guns.
I'm curious what the general consensus is of the families that are seeing their relatives hanging, beheaded or riddled in bullets, do they feel they need or would like help or not? IDK is why I'm asking. I understand your thoughts on the matter but what about others in your country that are being terrorized do they feel the same as you?

Personally I think they should probably legalize or decriminalize all drugs and start treating it for what it is, a social problem and not a criminal issue. We know that isn't happening.

Glad to see that there is now some actual movement in the right direction with the idea of labeling Mexican drug cartels as terrorists:

Mexican Drug Cartels Considered Terrorists?

April 15, 2011 By Rafael Romo, CNN Senior Latin American Affairs Editor

U.S. Rep. Michael McCaul, R-Texas, says Mexican drug cartels should be considered terrorist organizations.Should Mexican drug cartels be considered terrorist organizations? They murder, plot, kidnap, and dismember bodies. They're also responsible for shootouts, explosions, fires and other atrocities.

McCaul has introduced a bill that would add Mexico's six dominant cartels to the State Department's foreign terrorist organizations list. The criminal organizations included in the bill are the Arellano Felix organization, Los Zetas, Beltran Leyva, Familia Michoacana, Sinaloa Cartel, and the Gulf Cartel/New Federation.

Source: articles.cnn.com...:WORLD


Thank you Representative McCaul.

Originally posted by manta78
Glad to see that there is now some actual movement in the right direction with the idea of labeling Mexican drug cartels as terrorists:

Mexican Drug Cartels Considered Terrorists?

April 15, 2011 By Rafael Romo, CNN Senior Latin American Affairs Editor

U.S. Rep. Michael McCaul, R-Texas, says Mexican drug cartels should be considered terrorist organizations.Should Mexican drug cartels be considered terrorist organizations? They murder, plot, kidnap, and dismember bodies. They're also responsible for shootouts, explosions, fires and other atrocities.

McCaul has introduced a bill that would add Mexico's six dominant cartels to the State Department's foreign terrorist organizations list. The criminal organizations included in the bill are the Arellano Felix organization, Los Zetas, Beltran Leyva, Familia Michoacana, Sinaloa Cartel, and the Gulf Cartel/New Federation.

Source: articles.cnn.com...:WORLD


Thank you Representative McCaul.

edit on 4/17/2011 by manta78 because: (no reason given)

But still not a blessed thing done to those who create the prohibition environment in which such criminality can be so labelled and encouraged to flourish. In an open market these drugs would be dirt-cheap. Instead the profits are inflated beyond all reason, solely because there is a demand and they can be so inflated.

Controlling who gets to traffic them has been used to prop-up rebel forces, topple governments, and fund black operations. Major US financial institutions have been permitted to launder drug money for big profit and pay fines of a fraction of a penny on dollars. www.abovetopsecret.com...

Mexico has some problems and these were compounded several years ago with a stepped-up Drug War. I agree there is criminality involved, from boths sides of the war. I would reserve the designation of "Terrorists" for the perpetrators and perpetuators of these problems. Your and others willingness to hook, line, and sinker the mainstream line about this situation has welcomed violent crime into your streets. In Mexico our problems have remained fairly localized, except for some recent developments as the heat has been turned up, while the US has built an evironment where everyone gets to enjoy the violence and crime.

Good going! Keep wagging the dog.

Never gonna happen... these cartels have the money to buy agents and judges and who knows who else.

If you want to cut thier balls off legalize marijuana as that would seriously crimp their buisness.

Ya, they should be. While were at it lets add every congressman but Ron Paul to it.

reply to post by Erongaricuaro


You make an excellent point, imo- both in terms of going into other countries ostensibly "to hunt down terr'ists" and prohibition feeding the violence. (I agree with others, too, re the CIA and corruption. And raise them the banks washing drug money. It's an industry and it reeks)
To clarify, the US should be *defending* our borders, not invading other countries under the pretense of "defending ourselves".

Originally posted by MikeboydUS

Originally posted by Fractured.Facade
No, first and foremost they should be labeled "Affiliates" of various covert U.S. agencies.

As far as the Mexican government is concerned, they ARE terrorists.

Unless you have real proof of any connection between them and the US government, thats pure speculation and hypothesis.

The mere fact that drugs can make it into the US via Mexico is evidence of political corruption. That would seem to be a link to me.

What the above poster is likely true to some degree. Although the demand by everybody else is what makes it profitable.

Also relates to this short post I made on another topic.

I have some difficulty seeing them labeled as terrorists, because of the likely repercussions of their high-level buyers in this country no longer being supplied or being outed to the public. Also the cartels more often than not tend to be a lot more specific in who they target in their acts of terror. Their modus operandi doesn't involve blowing up random buildings or places, they tend to hit places where certain targets are likely to be. (If not anybody in the police, politics, media, or a rival gang, it's very likely they did get some friend or family of those people. They just aren't widely known about. The acts of violence in the later category tend to be labeled as random, when they're really not. The big downside and upsetting part is they don't care about any bystanders either.) With all the illegal immigration networks and all the other people they have on the hook, it's not like they're lacking people to do jobs for them in this country either. (The numbers of people they have available and living unnoticed likely dwarfs Al Queda's wet dreams.) But right now the cartels haven't felt motivated or desperate enough to make those calls, in most cases it would be bad for their business.

Originally posted by jstanthrno1
If you want to cut thier balls off legalize marijuana as that would seriously crimp their buisness.

Not according to this former Mexican Attorney General who indicates:

April 15, 2011
California Legalizing Pot Won't Stop Drug Cartels, ex-AG in Mexico Says

A former Mexican attorney general from Baja California said today that legalization of marijuana in California
would curb pot-related violence in Mexico but would do little to stop the overall killings and corruption of Mexican drug cartels.

Antonio Martinez, who served as attorney general for Northern Baja California from 2001 to 2007, told a McGeorge School of Law symposium on marijuana and legal issues, that sanctioning marijuana use
in California would force cartel to increase other forms of drug trafficking.

"They still will be in the black market," Martinez said of Mexican drug networks. "And those individuals will shift into other sectors of organized crime. They will kidnap. They will steal ... They will go into coc aine, firearms and other things. For that merchandise (marijuana), violence will go down. But that doesn't mean it will stop."

Read more: blogs.sacbee.com...

Here's Represenative McCaul's actual statement on why he is sponsoring this bill to label Mexican drug cartels as terrorists:

Classify Cartels as Terror Groups
by Michael McCaul - Apr. 16, 2011 12:00 AM
Special for the Republic


Over the past year the increase in violence by the Mexican drug cartels has expanded to include more-brutal forms of violence and deaths of civilians and political leaders:

- March 13, 2010 - Cartel members killed three individuals (two of them U.S. citizens) connected to the U.S. consulate in Juarez, Mexico.

- June 28, 2010 - A Tamaulipas gubernatorial candidate was killed by a drug cartel.

- January through October 2010 - 12 sitting mayors were killed.

- February 15, 2011- Immigration and Customs Enforcement Special Agent Jaime Zapata was killed and his fellow Special Agent Victor Avila was wounded by the Los Zetas.

- March 2011- A law-enforcement bulletin warned that cartels were overheard plotting to kill ICE agents and Texas Rangers guarding the border by shooting at them from across the border.

These are acts of terrorism as defined by federal law.

The shooting of Special Agents Zapata and Avila is a game-changer that alters the landscape of the United States' involvement in Mexico's war against the drug cartels. For the first time in 25 years, the cartels are targeting American law enforcement. Avila described this ambush to me as "pure evil." Even at the Mexican hospital, he feared that they would come back and finish the job.

The agents were forced off a highway in Central Mexico in their vehicle bearing diplomatic license plates. Both agents pleaded for their lives in Spanish, identifying themselves as U.S. federal agents. Members of the Los Zetas cartel responded by firing more than 80 rounds from automatic weapons, killing Zapata and wounding Avila.

He further states some of the specific goals of this legislation:

I have introduced legislation requiring the State Department to classify drug cartels as foreign terror organizations as a means to limit the groups' financial, property and travel interests.

This designation could:

- Bring separate charges against anyone providing "material support or resources" to FTOs. This includes, but is not limited to, money, identification, lodging, training, weapons and transportation.

- Provide an additional penalty of up to 15 years in prison and possible fine for providing material support or resources. A life sentence may be imposed if their actions resulted in death. This penalty is levied in addition to penalties for any associated crime.

- Authorize the deportation of any foreign member of an FTO from the United States even if they are in this country legally.

- Require banks to freeze any funds tied to FTOs.

Cartels kidnap, kill and mutilate innocent civilians, elected officials and law enforcement, using gruesome tactics to intimidate government officials and citizens to abide by their rules. Torture, beheadings, dismembering and mutilation are common.

We must secure our borders. We must intensify southbound inspections to seize weapons and cash that arm and fund drug-trafficking organizations. The United States funnels an estimated $25 billion to $30 billion a year into Mexico, which funds the cartels. We should seize this money, then use it against the cartels by paying for U.S. border-security operations.

I have visited our troops in Iraq, Afghanistan and Pakistan. But the last time I visited the El Paso Intelligence Center and requested to go across the border to Juarez, the State Department told me they could not guarantee my safety.

It is time for the United States to show a serious commitment to this war on our doorstep.

Article Source: www.azcentral.com...