Former FBI Chief Ted Gunderson Says Chemtrail Death Dumps Must Be Stopped

I never post on ATS, I mostly just read, try to avoid the BS, and sort out the paranoia from the true conspiracies.

I live in Southern California and Chemtrails are 100% real. A lot of people are on here talking about "critical thinking", "logic" , etc while debunking and dismissing this theory. Well let's make some logical observations.

1) I notice on a 2-3 times a week basis the patterns in the sky over Los Angeles. Long crossing streaks over the skies, as if the airplanes are are drawing tic-tac-toe boards in the sky. These trails then slowly fade and spread out like a hazy blanket over the entire sky! On days we are supposed to have clear blue skies! If at the very least its visual polution!

2) I also notice other very high flying jets over LA that do not create this same effect. A CONTRAIL, that dissolves quickly and never looks any longer than 100 feet behind the plain. There is a clear difference between the two. One is leaving a cloud that never completely dissolves and stays THE ENTIRE DAY OVER LA. The other, gone in seconds. ALSO. The planes that have the natural CONTRAILS behind them ARE NOT zig-zagging over the entire city all day. They are going from point-A to point-B. The ones leaving the clouds are "MOWING THE LAWN" so to speak.

3)Ok, so follow the money. How much does it cost to fly a plane for the day over LA, all day? How about every day? How about multiple planes, everyday, in every major city under the UN's control? How much does that cost daily? It must costs MILLIONS PER DAY! At a time when we are supposedly tanking financially our government that only spends money like that when they must for WAR, Black-Ops, and other BS.......this is OBVIOUSLY A PRIORITY to TPTB.

4)So something is going on, PERIOD. People can deny it all they want. If you think that our government is just flying jets over our cities for fun everyday and leaving giant clouds of "exhaust" like the jet is some sort of piece of # Gremlin/Pinto on the freeway, then you my friend are a complete idiot and lack critical thinking. The smoke is not exhaust, it is something being SPRAYED INTO OUR ATMOSPHERE.

5)So what are they spraying? Weather modification chemicals? Something to cool our atmosphere to "protect us"....Maybe. Maybe we are paranoid and they are trying to actually help us. Maybe its a chemical that reflects the sun's radiation in case this pole shift thing does go down and we are left vulnerable to the sun for a window of time and they dont want the public to panic. That is the most logical explanation. Why would they kill their own family and friends? Or, it could be something more sinister like mind altering drugs, maybe they are playing with species genocide...targeting one type of race of birds...testing it out, then they can do the same thing to non-white races around the world. Genocide. There are plenty of possibilities, but one thing is for certain....they are spraying something over our heads everyday, and spending a lot of money to do so, and are not talking about it. Conspiracy.

6)We have a right to know. Period. If I was skipping in circles around you tossing baby poweder over your head you would ask me "what the hell are you doing?!", you might even attack me, tackle me down, ask me "why am I doing that?". What if you didnt know it was baby powder? What if I was in a jet 40,000 feet above you....does that make it any better?


ATS.

STOP WASTING YOUR TIME ON ALL THE BS CONSPIRACIES. COMETS, ALIENS, ETC.

Focus on one, and demand answers! We can see this happening over our heads, it is real! I see so much confusion, fear, and paranoia on this website daily. We have the power to demand answers, protest and gain awareness to this topic.

These are strange times, but stay focused on what is happening right in front of us in REAL LIFE, not on the internet.

I do believe in life on other planets and more information will be known soon on these topics, but now is not the time. Something else is happening right now. Look up and wake up.

reply to post by JRockABM1


star for you on that!!!! that is exactly what is on the mind of every one who notices these chemtrails! well said ! i agree we can make a difference if everyone makes it known they do not want them there! and if they are there to help us then by god tell us !!! we are big boys and girls , id rather know that its to protect us from some radiation than think its some sinister plot against the American people
we need to seriously investigate for our selves where these planes leave from, who flies them and who is allowing this to happen!! and do what is necessary to stop them. talking about them! is doing no good.

reply to post by Johnze


I didn't read the rest of the tread before replying to you, so it's possible somebody's brought this to your attention already but... You've brought this up twice now and I feel compelled to interject the following:

"Chemtrails" and weather modification differ in a few important ways:

Weather modification exists, it's no secret, it's not new and it's nothing to worry about.

The principle consists of dispersing particles that are big enough to be seen with the naked eye in a manner that has NOTHING to do with the airplane's propulsion system so that water particles that are already present (in the form of clouds) in the sky will bind to them until they're heavy enough to fall down to earth as rain. It's called Cloudseeding. Look it up.

Contrails ARE, for all intents and purposes, weather.

reply to post by weedwhacker



Matey, you broke security if you were there and saw the planes, reading between the lines. go to the hangar and bring photos back. Or if you allude to being a commercial passenger, you don't know what goes on behind closed doors. but, BIG but, if you hae security acces you can confirm/deny what you haev/haev not seen. If you are an airline employee you won't breach rules to what is publically available, unless you signed a "shut-up" piece of paper. If not, cough up and prove yourself.

Dare you too

If it don't make sense it's generally not true. Rule of law. back your opinion with fact.

Happy Hunting

HADES

happy hunting

HADES

hey the fbi guy just made a introduction to ats www.abovetopsecret.com...

and then they 404d it

reply to post by matrix12


In the past it has been to test how useful they would be for germ or chemical warfare, and also used to test our own anti-germ/anti-chemical warfare safeguards.

Please see my previous post on page 21, I have linked to an abundance of declassified MOD documents, admitting to this FACT.

For anyone who says they don't exist, I'm sorry, its pure FACT they DO exist, have been used in the past, and there is no reason to suggest that the government, all of a sudden, stopped using this method of testing.

Anyone who actually took the time to read what I posted, would see these are REAL. There is even a letter from the company DERA (Defence Evaluation and Research Agency), dated 1999, stating that they cannot rule out further testing.

Originally posted by wcitizen
If you're genuinely trying to understand, I'm happy to share my beliefs with you. If you're trying to draw me out to shoot me down, I'll know and I'll bow out.

The difference between chemtrails and contrails is how they create cloud cover. Contrails, even those which hang for a good while in the sky, tend do stay the same width and disappear more or less quickly. The sky remains the same as it was prior to the contrail. I have observed this many, many times, even when there are several contrails in the sky at a time.

Chemtrails expand, a bit like expanding spray foam does from an aerosol can. There is never just one of them, there are always many. The planes cross the sky constantly in lines, covering an area, and as the trails expand they remain, they don't dissipate and they create cloud cover which lasts for many hours.

I've observed skies where both are present. The contrails disappear, the chemtrails remain, expand and cover the sky.

I'm sure you've seen the photos of them, so I'm surprised you're asking me this question - I guess I don't entirely trust your motive yet.

edit on 17-1-2011 by wcitizen because: (no reason given)

I am trying to debate the reality of chem trails. I am tired of the same old debate of "they are real cuz I seen um", and "no they ain't, yer crazy!" That stuff gets old. If I don't understand what you believe, then I can't very well talk to you about your beliefs. If you see this as me drawing you out, then I apologize and understand if you ignore my response.

If what you are saying is true, then the amount of times this happens per day, per city, is astronomical. The amount of planes involved would be massive, wouldn't they? In your estimate, how many planes might be involved with this conspiracy?

Google Video Link

(If you understand German only. Worldwide we are asking questions. I think due to the fact that there are so many languages we are not really able to see how big this is)

CHEMTRAILS HAARP & never heard? Then it time Altnickel AZK ex-Greenpeace 1:44:17 - 2 jaar Werner Altnickel new chair, former employee of Greenpeace Chemtrails & Haarp further auflußreiche videos under www.tu-berlin.net/videos.htm, 911 lie, Evolution, Fascism , communism, dictatorship, September 11, terrorism is lying, info war, smoke and mirrors, vaccination, Money, Peak Oil, genetic engineering, pharmaceuticals, Darwin, Harun Yahya

Originally posted by firepilot

Originally posted by RelentlessLurker
reply to post by firepilot

 

i would love to see some examples of naturally occurring barium, aluminum, and strontium, in the levels detected by the researchers.

hell, ill settle for 1/10 the levels detected.

and what i would love even more, is an explanation on why they occur together every single time in almost identical ratios.

edit on 17-1-2011 by RelentlessLurker because: (no reason given)

Of course they are naturally occuring, since they are often MINED. Again, this idea that somehow metals should not be naturally occuring, its complete bunk and utter junk science that some of you fall for.

Aluminum make up 8 percent of the weight of the earths surface as aluminum ore., 3rd most common element.

Barium - well for supposedly it should not be out in nature, 6,000,000 tons (12 billion pound) of it are mined yearly. Estimated reserves yet to be mined - 450,000,000 tons.

Strontium - 15th most abundant element in nature, and used in vitamin supplements for osteoporosis. Also used very heavy by sugar beet industry in refining sugar. Also forms of it are commonly used in toothpaste too.

this answers nothing.

i dont care if the 3 are the most abundant elements in the universe, it doesnt explain how they ended up in the samples taken by the researchers.

and i am still awaiting your example.

the presence of an element on a planet does not explain its sudden presence in a controlled experiment.

although i appreciate your attempt to downplay and make me feel like everything is as it should be, aluminum falling from the sky and such.

hint: the research was not done anywhere near a mining site.

Originally posted by matrix12
hey the fbi guy just made a introduction to ats www.abovetopsecret.com...

and then they 404d it

edit on 18-1-2011 by matrix12 because: update

WTF? is this! maaan!

roswellwitness turned out to be former banned member pulling a fast one

hope its not the same but a probability.

maybe a mod can chip in to clear it up

Real or not real?

I live in Ho Chi Minh City in Vietnam. I see planes almost everyday flying at different altitudes and they NEVER have contrails lasting for hours and hours lingering in the sky, NEVER. I have never seen anything last over a few minutes. Maybe with all the motorbikes here, I guess 'they' figure that is enough pollution to kill us off? HA! When I lived back in the states I would see the classic tic tac toe spraying on a regular basis. Maybe if 'they' sent me a check I would say I saw them everyday! =D Whoever says they don't exist, please contact me, I need some quick cash... I will spew they don't exist crap all day over the net for a fee. Same with 9/11 JFK etc...

This is my first post on ATS, as I joined around 3 weeks ago. I've been reading about numerous conspiracies, but the subject of chem-trails/con-trails strikes very close to home with me.

I live in a small, fairly remote town (3hrs from a big city) on the southern Oregon coast. Nearly a month ago my girlfriend and I made plans to have a nice picnic on the beach and watch the clear skies on a nice sunny day. Let me say that extraordinary events seldom reach us here.
Anyway we were sitting there eating our sandwiches when I noticed a seemingly unmarked, white "commercial looking" jet, flying what I'd guess to be about a mile(maybe 2, hard to tell with no reference) up in the air, maybe half a mile west off the coast in the harbor of our town, right over the ocean. The jet was maybe 1/4'' inch long holding my fingers up to it.

First let me say that I, and everyone I know in this town (lived here 20+yrs) do not frequently see large aircraft flying around our beaches like that, it just doesn't happen.
I'll further explain what I saw that day.

The jet was heading north when I saw it, and as I watched, it turned on something and out of nowhere (there were no con-trails or anything anywhere in the sky prior to this) began releasing a very thick cloud of white stuff. He flew for what seemed to me maybe 5 miles one direction (north) then immediately the valve was closed and the trail completely stopped. He flew another minute or two, turned around, and laid another perfect line of this stuff heading now south along our coast over the ocean.
The pilot repeated this ON/OFF of the trail 6 or 7 times, turning it off each time and circling back, lining another one up ( they weren't grids of lines, more like parallel patterns) as they blew towards our town.
An interesting thing I noticed was that 30 minutes later (the winds weren't very strong that day) the lines of smoke were not even close to dissipated, and were carried in gigantic, unbroken lines right over us.

As we sat there in horror (this # can't be good for us) we suddenly heard the roar of two fighter jets right over our heads flying a mission. Now these jets didn't fly over our city and keep going, they held a pattern together and flew in tight circles just a little east of where this jet was pumping this crap out at.
They seemed like they might have been possibly escorting this other aircraft, and they appeared to be f-18's but I could be mistaken on that.
Then, once about 7 lines were sprayed, the aircraft turned the valve off, and flew away south. Immediately after, the fighters flew away in the same general direction.
These spray lines looked much like the photos on the previous page here.

To be honest, growing up here I never paid much attention planes spraying stuff up there, so I don't know how long this has been going on. But I sure as hell will be paying closer attention to our skies. If there's any truth to these chem-trail conspiracies, I will be beyond pissed.
One last side note, my girlfriend, her parents, my parents, and my brother and a few friends ALL got sore throats and felt "like they were coming down with something" all ONE DAY after this happened. Not a joke and no exaggeration here.

Thought I'd make my first post about this, as it of course affects all of us, our food, our health and safety, and I'm positive this is NOT legal to be dumping on citizens.

Regarding the ex FBI chief, I just don't see why an obviously successful government agent would fabricate lies like this, seems like he has more to lose than gain over it.

Originally posted by JRockABM1
I never post on ATS, I mostly just read, try to avoid the BS, and sort out the paranoia from the true conspiracies.

I live in Southern California and Chemtrails are 100% real. A lot of people are on here talking about "critical thinking", "logic" , etc while debunking and dismissing this theory. Well let's make some logical observations.

1) I notice on a 2-3 times a week basis the patterns in the sky over Los Angeles. Long crossing streaks over the skies, as if the airplanes are are drawing tic-tac-toe boards in the sky. These trails then slowly fade and spread out like a hazy blanket over the entire sky! On days we are supposed to have clear blue skies! If at the very least its visual polution!

2) I also notice other very high flying jets over LA that do not create this same effect.

Have you ever flown in a plane? Once you get to an altitude above the cloud ceiling you notice that you can look down on the clouds. It almost looks like you could walk on them. The conditions at that altitude we favorable for cloud formation. If the plane you were in stayed at the altitude that had clouds, it could leave a lasting con trail.
Do you have any idea of how many flights come in and out of LAX on a daily basis? There is no need to spray you, there is enough pollution from cars and airplane exhaust to cover the sky.

A CONTRAIL, that dissolves quickly and never looks any longer than 100 feet behind the plain. There is a clear difference between the two. One is leaving a cloud that never completely dissolves and stays THE ENTIRE DAY OVER LA. The other, gone in seconds. ALSO. The planes that have the natural CONTRAILS behind them ARE NOT zig-zagging over the entire city all day. They are going from point-A to point-B. The ones leaving the clouds are "MOWING THE LAWN" so to speak.

3)Ok, so follow the money. How much does it cost to fly a plane for the day over LA, all day? How about every day? How about multiple planes, everyday, in every major city under the UN's control? How much does that cost daily? It must costs MILLIONS PER DAY! At a time when we are supposedly tanking financially our government that only spends money like that when they must for WAR, Black-Ops, and other BS.......this is OBVIOUSLY A PRIORITY to TPTB.

4)So something is going on, PERIOD. People can deny it all they want. If you think that our government is just flying jets over our cities for fun everyday and leaving giant clouds of "exhaust" like the jet is some sort of piece of # Gremlin/Pinto on the freeway, then you my friend are a complete idiot and lack critical thinking. The smoke is not exhaust, it is something being SPRAYED INTO OUR ATMOSPHERE.

5)So what are they spraying? Weather modification chemicals? Something to cool our atmosphere to "protect us"....Maybe. Maybe we are paranoid and they are trying to actually help us. Maybe its a chemical that reflects the sun's radiation in case this pole shift thing does go down and we are left vulnerable to the sun for a window of time and they dont want the public to panic. That is the most logical explanation. Why would they kill their own family and friends? Or, it could be something more sinister like mind altering drugs, maybe they are playing with species genocide...targeting one type of race of birds...testing it out, then they can do the same thing to non-white races around the world. Genocide. There are plenty of possibilities, but one thing is for certain....they are spraying something over our heads everyday, and spending a lot of money to do so, and are not talking about it. Conspiracy.

6)We have a right to know. Period. If I was skipping in circles around you tossing baby poweder over your head you would ask me "what the hell are you doing?!", you might even attack me, tackle me down, ask me "why am I doing that?". What if you didnt know it was baby powder? What if I was in a jet 40,000 feet above you....does that make it any better?


ATS.

STOP WASTING YOUR TIME ON ALL THE BS CONSPIRACIES. COMETS, ALIENS, ETC.

Focus on one, and demand answers! We can see this happening over our heads, it is real! I see so much confusion, fear, and paranoia on this website daily. We have the power to demand answers, protest and gain awareness to this topic.

These are strange times, but stay focused on what is happening right in front of us in REAL LIFE, not on the internet.

I do believe in life on other planets and more information will be known soon on these topics, but now is not the time. Something else is happening right now. Look up and wake up.

Since you seem to be so passionate about this, I suggest you get a job in aviation. There is no better way to get close to the perpetrators of this terrible crime. Be the change you want to see, be a doer and not just a talker.

STOP WASTING YOUR TIME ON ALL THE BS CONSPIRACIES. COMETS, ALIENS, ETC.

Just wanted to point out that the "Alien" issue is very real and the "UFOs and Aliens" forum is the second largest on this site. Aliens interact with our planet everyday.

Anyways back to the topic... yes we must DEMAND answers as to why they are spraying Chemtrails!

Congress knows they are real we just need to push them to act more. Write to your senator or congressman today!

reply to post by Mellok


I am not disbelieving your story at all. But do you think it's even remotely possible that the stuff that was sprayed a half of a mile above you into a jet stream that blows 200MPH or more honestly fell down on your coastal community? If you were crop dusted, I could believe it, but a plane at altitude pinpointing a town. Not in my wildest dreams could I imagine that accuracy with a variable wind pattern.

The plane you saw was most likely an AWACS plane. It is like a mobile command station.



They fly in circular patterns to stay in a certain area. They usually have fighters in the general area as well. I am only guessing on the white lines, but they usually form when conditions are right for cloud formation. Maybe they were spraying you, but I seriously doubt it.

reply to post by dplum517


you seem to be very vocal on this issue, why not get a job in aviation and expose this from the inside?
you can even get paid for it.

reply to post by network dude


Well I do love aviation and everything connected but I have already started a career in IT.

Also, tell me who's paying and I might apply! : )

Originally posted by network dude


I am trying to debate the reality of chem trails. I am tired of the same old debate of "they are real cuz I seen um", and "no they ain't, yer crazy!" That stuff gets old. If I don't understand what you believe, then I can't very well talk to you about your beliefs. If you see this as me drawing you out, then I apologize and understand if you ignore my response.

If what you are saying is true, then the amount of times this happens per day, per city, is astronomical. The amount of planes involved would be massive, wouldn't they? In your estimate, how many planes might be involved with this conspiracy?

I couldn't even begin to guess how many planes would be involved in this project. Indeed, the scope of what they are doing is astronomical.

reply to post by dplum517


IT pays better, but aviation is a cool field. I started in the USAF, and learned quite a bit. There are a few schools that will train you and help find a job. Emery Riddle is one. If you are young and not set in a career yet, I just thought it would be a great fit to bust the conspiracy wide open. What would actually happen is you would learn first hand why the conspiracy as presented here is impossible, but then again, I might be very wrong.

reply to post by matrix12


Wow. Did you read what he said? If so, please could you let us know what was in his post? Why would they 404 it?