The Day Before Roswell

Originally posted by Imtor
Thanks for the replies. I thought it was you with Phil Schneider, without knowing who you are, Would've been a good way in search for if Dulce base exists at all.

Since you are not, that makes you no different from anyone else who has nothing better to offer than anyone else. So don't worry, you don't have to waste your time with 'such creatures' as I just lost interest in any of your so called credibility.

Did you really call 'A51Watcher' a lier (or liar)? How rude of you. 'A51Watcher' have done a great job presenting very good stuffs from the real world. You on the other hand have offered nothing, 'Imtor', other than insulting 'A51Watcher'.
Beside, even Von Braun reportedly saw the crashed UFO and the dead alien bodies with reptilian looking skin.

I tell you what, the Roswell witnesses allegedly saw the dead alien bodies as they called "Small people". One of them was allegedly still alive and reportedly communicated by using telepathy, which Frankie Rowe also told on TV. General Roger Ramey admitted that the weather balloon was the biggest lie he ever had to tell, saying >>It was out of this world, Son. Out of this world!

For those following the early reports of Flying Saucer attraction to TS Atomic sites (such as Hanford discussed at length a few pages ago here), I recently came across one that certainly fits that category and indeed is dated 1945.


Mid- July 1945 - UFO SIGHTING OVER HANFORD NUCLEAR REACTOR

NICAP Case report


Radar detected a fast-moving object that was in a holding pattern directly above the Hanford plant.

It was extremely high and the pilots couldn't see it at first. As they rapidly increased altitude the pilots all spotted it at about the same time and headed directly for its position. None of them could recognize it, but they could see it well from their vantage point.

It had a saucer-like appearance, was bright, extremely fast, and very high.

The F6F had an operating ceiling of 37,000 feet, but on this day they exceeded that considerably and still couldn't get close enough. It didn't make any overt moves, gave no signals, just hovered there as if observing, staying well enough out of reach.

When some of the engines began to fail, and fuel consumption got critical, the planes returned to base one by one, and the strange craft disappeared as quickly as it came. The six F6F "Hellcats" made visual contact with the object described as the size of three aircraft carriers side by side, oval shaped, very streamlined like a stretched-out egg and pinkish in color.

The witness who filed this report said that some kind of vapor was being emitted around the outside edges from portholes or vents. The object was observed at noon in a clear sky at an estimated altitude of 65,000 feet. After hovering in a fixed position above the Hanford Nuclear Reactor for an additional twenty minutes, the object disappeared going straight-up as the six Hellcats limped back to the Pasco Naval Air Station (Washington).

link

-continued-

One of the most interesting parts about that sighting is the date:

Mid- July 1945 - UFO SIGHTING OVER HANFORD NUCLEAR REACTOR

Huh?


Hang on a sec, Hanford cooked up and supplied the Plutonium for the first Atomic Bomb test, called 'Trinity'.

Trinity was detonated on July 16 1945.


The B Reactor went critical September 26 1944.
720 grams was first delivered from Hanford to Los Alamos on February 5 1945.

The first 5 kilograms would be used to test the implosion system Los Alamos had invented.
Oppenheimer had his first 5 kilograms by May 18.

Matthias was able to inform Groves early in March that 10 kilograms of plutonium—enough for two bombs—would be ready for shipping between April 18 and... July 12.

June 24 1947 - Richland, Washington - 2:30 P.M. PST

RICHLAND VILLAGER (Washington) 7/3


Flying Disks Are Seen Here


Leo Bernier reported several silvery-shaped discs high in the sky heading west by southwest.

He stated they were traveling as fast as a P-38 fighter or about 400 miles per hour, and also
"I believe it may be a visitor from another planet."

__________________________________________________________________________


And so here we have a sighting at Richland, Washington... 20 minutes before Kenneth Arnold's sighting at Mt. Rainier, Washington which is very near by. You will recall that Richland was home to the Hanford Nuclear Reactor.

The Day After Arnold



June 25 - Pueblo, Colorado

NEW ORLEANS TIMES-PICAYUNE (Louisiana) 7/7


As Lloyd M. Lowry and his wife drove east near Pueblo, they "suddenly observed a strange oval-shaped object approaching at a high rate of speed."

The object was seen first at an estimated altitude of 2,000 feet, and descending rapidly toward the observers' car. It swooped down to 500 feet above the car.

Following this object was another similar one, approaching on the same course. "We were alarmed," Mr. Lowry reported.

"As the first one approached, we could see it revolving at tremendous speed on its axis, even faster than its forward flight."

As it reached a point just above and ahead of the car, "it suddenly veered off sharply to the right, and at the same time its companion did likewise."

The objects then disappeared to the south in a matter of seconds.

Mr. Lowry hesitated to make known their experience at first because he was afraid it would not be believed.

reply to post by A51Watcher
The evidence of craft flying at incredible speeds in US air space is incredibly strong. I am amazed at the lack of any discussion of the implications of the evidence presented in this thread.... Maybe I should start the ball rolling?

Does anyone reading this thread (come on I know you're following it really) have a credible explanation for the data presented in this thread?

The hoax idea is one worth dismissing right here. The scale of hoax required would be of such epic proportion and involve so many people as to be unimaginable. So if the reports are of real bona fide craft, who the hell was controlling them?

reply to post by Pimander


Ah yes, the incredible speeds you mention. Let's take a closer look at the speeds reported, keeping in mind:

The maximum speed of a P-38 was about 440 miles an hour.

In August 1947, with Commander Turner F. Caldwell and Major Marion Carl, USMC, at the controls, Skystreaks established two world speed records, achieving 640.663 MPH and 650.796 MPH over a 30-kilometer course.

_______________________________________________________________________________________

May 16 1947 - ... went shooting past... traveled to the west at terrific speed
("something that looked like a ball") Valley City, North Dakota - 9:00 P.M. CST

May 17 - ...tremendous speed.
(more than one plate-shaped object) Bremerton, Washingtonous

May 18 - ...speed estimated at more than 1500 mph (3x current jet speed in those days)
(shiny disc... as big as six B-29 bombers “bigger than any aircraft we have.” )
Oklahoma City, Oklahoma - Dusk

May (last week of) - ...terrific rate of speed ...sped out of view in less than twenty seconds
(formation of four disc-like objects... silvery and appeared “highly polished,”... spinning on their axes... no sound) Augusta, GA

June 17 - ...tremendous speed.
(more than one plate-shaped object) Bremerton, WA

June 17 - ...wavered as they flew, and shot off at extreme speeds...
(Three platter-shaped discs) Bremerton, Washington - Late afternoon PST

June 18 - ...multiple "saucers racing overhead"...speeding out of sight at tremendous velocity - 1,700 mph.
Eugene, Oregon

June 19 - ... as they zoomed over...
(eight to ten discs which were lighted from within) Cedar Rapids, Iowa - Night

June 22 - ...traveled at a high rate of speed... and "streaked across the sky" in a matter of only eight to ten seconds
(a "brilliant, round-shaped silvery-white object") Greenfield, Massachusetts - 11:30 A.M. EST

June 23 - ...then zoomed away
(a large shiny silver ball hovered for several minutes over a mountain) Clayton, Georgia

June 23 - ...terrific speed
(two illuminated discs) Huntsville, Alabama

June 24 - ...1200 mph
(nine strange "saucer-shaped" planes) Mt. Ranier, Washington

June 24 - ...flew off faster than anything he had seen before
(five or six discs flying silently overhead) Hood River, Oregon - 3:00 P.M. PST
-He noticed that his compass began spinning when the discs passed over.
-His watch also stopped running.

June 24 - ...They sped so fast she could not count them
(sighting the “whatzits,”) Yakima, Washington - 3:00 P.M. PST (approx)

June 24 - ..."I have seen a P-38 appear seemingly on one horizon and then gone to the opposite horizon in no time at all, but these disks certainly were traveling faster than any P-38."
Richland, Washington - 2:30 P.M. PST

June 24 - ...moving at fantastic speeds.
(several flying discs) Yakima, Washington

June 24 - ...flash by to the north
(nine shiny discs) Washinton - 3:00 P.M. PST

June 24 - ..."going faster than any planes I ever saw”
(peculiar formation of nine flat, circular objects) Joliet, Illinois 1:50 P.M. CST

June 25 - ...approaching at a high rate of speed... disappeared to the south in a matter of seconds.
(a strange oval-shaped object) Pueblo, Colorado

June 26 - ..."was moving at a terrific rate of speed."
("The machine, or whatever it was, was a shiny silvery color — very big)
Oklahoma City, Oklahoma
"I know that boy up there (Arnold), really saw them."

June 26 - ...a "silver ball flashing through the sky" too swift to be an aircraft... "It was a distinctly large ball, moving extremely fast..." It was in the sky one minute, and by the time I had called my son's attention to it, the form had swooshed to almost the horizon point. Then it was gone." - Grand Canyon, Arizona - Day

June 26 - ...a pilot was flying a small plane when he saw a "silvery streak" approach him at high speed ... It then disappeared to the east. - Cedar City, Utah - Just before sundown

June 26 - ...great velocity heading eastward
(one silvery colored disc) Cedar City, Utah - 7:45 P.M. MST (6:45pmPST)

June 26 - ...traveling at least 1,200 miles per hour
(a round large disc in an easterly direction) Oklahoma City, Oklahoma - 8:30 P.M. CST (6:30pmPST)

June 28 - ...approached the observers in a jagged, zigzagging course, with frequent bursts of speed... to a point directly overhead, and the four officers reported that it then made a sharp, sudden 90° turn toward the south... they heard no noise.
(strangely maneuvering light) Montgomery, Alabama - 9:20 p.m. CST (7:20pmPST)

-continued-

June 30 - ...moving extremely fast
(V formation contained five disc-shaped objects in perfect line but the ones on the right "seemed to weave.") Hailey, Idaho - 2:30 P.M. MST - (1:30pmPST)
Forest ranger Hunter Nelson, who was marking trees with Nicholson three miles from Galena Summit, counted seven to nine objects in the V- formation. He said "it took the objects but a few seconds" to pass out of view. Both men stressed that point, stating that they flew "-much- faster than any aircraft of that day."

June 30 - ..."jet planes are very slow in comparison to what I saw."
("a bright, shiny object coming from the west,"appeared to be round," and had no wings or apparent means of propulsion.no motor sound") Spokane, Washington - Afternoon PST

June 30 - ...flashed westward over Knoxville
(A round bright object) Knoxville, Tennessee - 8:00 P.M EST (5:00pmPST)

July 1 - ...moving at great speed...
(a silver disc-shaped object) Tucson, Arizona - 9:30 A.M. MST (8:30amPST)

July 1 - ..."hurtling through the sky at a great rate of speed"
("a lone disc silver—colored and discus—shaped,") Chandler, Arizona - 9:30 A.M. MST (8:30amPST)

July 1 - "going like blue blazes... it zoomed by in a matter of only fifteen seconds.
(a disc-shaped object... resembled a flattened—out balloon) Dallas, Texas - 12:45 P.M CST (10:45amPST)

July 1 - ...compared the "saucers" speed to that of a "shooting star."
(saucers in a formation of six to eight objects.) Pendleton, Oregon - Afternoon PST

July 1 - ...moving over at a terrific speed.
(disc—like object fly overhead) Sullivan's Island, South Carolina - 9:55 p.m. EST (6:55pmPST)

1 JulY - ...speed in excess of 500 mph
(GCA radar picked up an unidentified target which split into two targets, reversed course, broke up into two responses, each estimated to be larger than a P-51, then merged back together again into one large response.) Hokkaido, Japan

July 1 - ...whizzed overhead heading quickly toward the south.
(six to nine shiny platter—shaped objects) Pendleton, Oregon - Mid-afternoon PST

July 1 - ...zip over the city of El Paso, hurtled over Mount Franklin and then flew off towards Mexico
(a 'flying disc'shaped like two pie pans rim—to—rim, estimated to be 30 feet in diameter) El Paso, Texas

July 1 - ...extremely fast speed over Charleston
(disc—shaped object) Charleston, South Carolina - 9:58 P.M. EST (6:58pmPST)

July 3 - ...zoom by at several thousand feet and make a forty-five degree turn before vanishing toward the southwest.
(a shiny, mirror-like disc) Denver, Colorado - 8:55 A.M. MST (7:55amPST)

July 3 - ...streaking overhead on a straight course
(three discs) Cincinnati, Ohio - 12:00 P.M. EST (9:00amPST)

July 4 - ...fly directly overhead at a tremendous speed and disappear over the horizon in a matter of seconds.
(a single disc) Boise, Idaho

July 4 - ..."catapulting across the sky"
(a disc-shaped object "about 40 to 50 feet in diameter.") Santa Monica, California - 5:00 P.M. PST

July 4 - ...all of a sudden it shot straight up into the sky and vanished in "a fraction of a second."
(shiny aluminum disc—shaped craft to having the appearance of a silver dollar approximately 30 feet across.) Hauser Lake, Idaho - 7:00 P.M. PST

July 4 - ...streaking past Mount Jefferson.
(four disc-shaped objects) Portland, Oregon - 10:59 A.M. PST

July 4 - ...speeding toward Oregon
(a shiny disc-like object) Idaho - Day

July 4 - ...They were traveling at a high rate of speed and looked like nothing he had seen before.
(five large, disc—shaped objects dipping up and down in an oscillating fashion. They disappeared quickly, at great speed, two going south and the remaining three going east.) Portland, Oregon - 1:05 P.M. PST

July 4 - ...streaking over toward the southwest
(20 to 30 disc—like objects) Portland, Oregon - 1:05 PST

He was emphatic in saying these objects could not have been regular aircraft.

July 4 - ...going at "terrific speed" without decelerating, made an abrupt 90—degree turn "with no difficulty"
(a single disc) Portland, Oregon

July 4 - ...traveling very fast...flying at "terrific speeds"
(three to six silvery, metallic, oscillating, flashing discs.) Portland, Oregon

July 4 - ...scudded across the sky at a terrific speed...in a matter of three or four seconds.
(silver disc) Boise, Idaho - 6:30 P.M. MST (5:30pmPST)

-continued-

July 5 - ...This effect would be caused if they were very, very large and very high, and flying at a terrific speed -- l,000 miles an hour,"
(discs, seen first directly overhead, "appeared to be made of metal and looked like bright silver) Auburn, California - 2:30 P.M. PST

July 5 - ...they were moving "very fast" and traveling faster than any aircraft he had ever seen.
(disc-like objects flying northward over the city...)Augusta, Maine - 1:15 P.M. EDT (10:15amPST)

July 5 - ...a "shooting star" turn and float toward the Phillips Packing Company in Cambridge. It then turned again in an opposite direction.
Cambridge, Maryland - 9:45 P.M. EST (6:45pmPST)

July 5 - ..."terrific speed,"
("bright, flat object about 12 feet in diameter.") Waterloo, Iowa - 1:30 A.M. CST

J. E. Johnston, reported that a high—speed object had flown over his home. The disc was flying about 25 feet above the ground and made a "rocket—like, swishing noise" as it flew directly over his house, It was too close to the ground to be an airplane.

It was a terrible experience," he added. "It numbed me from head to foot."

July 5 - ...made a sudden stop, reversing its course almost instantaneously and moved back north. The entire maneuver took place in less than 15 seconds, according to the witnesses.
(a silvery, disc—shaped object) Albany, Oregon - 3:20 P.M. PST

July 5 - ...approaching at an "excessive speed,"
(it did not "in any way, shape or manner" resemble any type of known aircraft.

The two described the object as "definitely of metal construction," about 20 feet long, and "not exactly round in shape.") Alton, New Hampshire - 4:26 p.m. EDT (1:26pmPST)

Dale had been an ATC pilot during World War II and was thoroughly familiar with all types of conventional aircraft.

Both Dale and Stetson said they "had never seen anything like it" in the air before, and added that its appearance left them both "flabbergasted."

July 6 - ...a very fast disc appeared over Santa Rosa, California. Observers Calvin McEntire and his brother Jack thought it to be the fastest thing that they had ever seen.

July 6 - ...two shiny disc-shaped objects zoomed over
Cincinnati, Ohio, 6:00 P.M. EST

July 6 - ..."It was going like a bat outa hell,"
(bright object which he was convinced "was not an airplane "round and shiny, like silver," "shooting up and down." It made no noise,) Denver, Colorado

July 6 - ...such a tremendous rate of speed that they were unable to get a good look at them. They tried unsuccessfully to clock them once when one flashed by.
(nine of the 'saucers') Oklahoma and Kansas - 2:30 to 3:00 P.M. MST (1:30 to 2:00pmPST)

July 6 - ...appeared to be moving at incredible speed."
(three strange objects)Norman, Oklahoma - 6:00 P.M. CST (4:00pmPST)

July 6 - ...terrific speed, flashed across the sky
(a disc-shaped object "a large serving dinner plate") Long Beach, California - 1:15 P.M. PST

"it swerved broadside towards the ocean," and then "side-slipped" to the west and vanished from view. They viewed the object for three or four seconds before it disappeared from view.

Both admitted that they had been "awed by the terrific speed and brilliance" of the phenomenon and were now "among the believers."

July 6 - ...zooming eastward
(two groups of three discs) Shrewsbury, Missouri - 7:45 P.M. CST (5:45pmPST)

July 6 - ...zoomed over Cincinnati
(Two shiny disc-shaped objects) Cincinnati, Ohio - 6:00 P.M. EST (3:00pmPST)

July 6 - ...moving at over 1,000 miles per hour
(Former Army flying Cadet Hazen Kennedy glimpsed an "orange-colored" object)
Washington, D.C. - 8:40 P.M. EST (5:40pmPST)

July 6 - ..."It was shooting toward Mount Diablo," He estimated the height of the object at approximately 3,000 feet and said that it was moving "faster than jet planes."
(a disc-shaped object flying rapidly) Pittsburg, California - 8:20 A.M. PST

July 6 - ..."shooting" westward across the sky, in a V-formation
(a group of disc-like objects) Denver, Colorado - 9:05 P.M. MST (8:05pmPST)

July 6 - ...overhead at a high rate of speed
(a silver, disc-like object) Ashland, Oregon - 6:40 a.m. PST

July 6 - ...rapid speed
(formation of seven disc-shaped objects passing directly overhead) Lake Lotawana, Missouri - 10:00 a.m.

July 6 - ...hurtle over Mount Tamalpais
(a disc) Mount Tamalpais, California - 1:30 P.M. PST

July 6 - ...It hovered there momentarily, whirling on its lateral axis at high speed, and then suddenly rose up and disappeared into the clouds...it moved at "a terrific speed."
(a disc-shaped object, It "whirled like a top") Logansport, Indiana

-continued-

July 7 - ...took off at a speed estimated at 6,000 miles per hour—calculated by the 25 mile distance the object covered between Koshkonong to Elkhorn in fifteen seconds.
(a "saucer") Koshkonong, Wisconsin 11:45 A.M. CST
At the end of its speedy run the object suddenly stopped and hovered, then disappeared in the distance.

July 7 - ...It then covered the 22 mile distance between Eagle to Muskego in twenty seconds, placing its speed at 3,960 miles per hour.
(a flying disc) East Troy, Wisconsin 2:30 P.M.

July 7 - ...the crew figured that it must have been flying 1,440 miles an hour because it overtook and passed their plane in such a short time.
(members of the crew also saw the disc. "I think it was about 18 feet in diameter and looked as though it was made of glass," Sgt. Clifton said. "It was extremely bright and kept flashing.")

It was round and was flying at a slightly tilted angle. "The disc seemed to be spinning as it flew," Sgt. Clifton reported. "It blurred radio reception slightly."

July 7 - ...race across the sky over the Salt River Valley north of Phoenix, They were in view for about 25 to 30 seconds, the estimated distance they traveled while under observation indicated a speed well in excess of 1,000 miles an hour.
(two silver, ball-like objects) Phoenix, Arizona: 3:30 p.m. MST

July 7 - ...flying at terrific speed
(three discs that were in V-formation and were brightly illuminated.) Tacoma, Washington 10:45 p.m. PST
Portland, Oregon - 2:05 P.M. PST
-...Multiple reports over city

July 8 - ...Russo, who had piloted 35 combat missions over Europe, estimated their speed at 850 miles per hour.
(six disc-shaped objects in the formation) Avalon, California - 1:00 P.M. PST
Several hundred witnesses on Santa Catalina Island off Long Beach observed a formation of "saucers."

July 8 - ...a P-51 pilot at 20,000 feet spotted a wingless, tailless "flat object of light-reflecting nature." He twice attempted an intercept but could not climb high enough.
40 miles south of Muroc 3:50 P.M.

July 8 - ...beyond capability of known aircraft
(two saucer or disc shaped objects) Muroc Army Air Field, Calif. 10:00 a.m. (PDT).

July 8 - ...fifty miles up and making over fifteen thousand mph
(six fast moving silvery-white saucers) Muroc Air Force Base

July 10 - ...incredible speed
("flying tin lid" shaped object reflected sunlight brilliantly) Smyrna, Georgia - 5:30 p.m. EDT

July 10 - ...terrific speed
("mysterious flying saucers." two dozen objects flew in first a V formation and then into a straight line) Mission, British Columbia - 9:50 p.m. local time

July 10 - ...dazzling burst of speed ...the lead disc suddenly shot upward, the other three followed and all were out of sight in a twinkling of the eye.
(formation of six, luminous spherical craft) Morristown, New Jersey - Morning

July 13 - ...several aircraft pilots who tried in vain to pursue it
(A round object flying over Baker Valley with a "dipping motion") Baker Valley, Oregon

July 28 - ..."going like hell when it disappeared."
(a bizarre object) Boise Statesman (Idaho) - 8:34 p.m. MST
Captain Gibian described that it appeared to be "weaving," as if "it were going through choppy air" Both men watched it vanish from view and agreed that they had never seen such a thing before. They also felt certain what they saw could not have been an aircraft.

July 29 - ...three to four times the apparent speed of a P-80 jet fighter also in sight ...The P-80 flew in excess of 250 miles per hour as the unknowns proceeded to pass by the jet "as if it was standing still."
(two round, shiny white objects) Hamilton Air Base, California - 2:50 p.m. PDT
Lieutenant Stewart piloted B-29 bombers during the war and had considerable experience as a flyer. He conveyed authority to Intelligence officers when questioned, stating that the objects were "unlike any conventional type of aircraft he had ever seen."

August 17 - ...flying above them at a tremendous rate of speed
(sphere shaped craft) Fort Richardson, Alaska (September 19 file)

August 17 - ...shot off to the southeast at great speed.
(a disc-shaped object) Mt. Josephine, Washington

August 18 - ...speed estimated at 900 miles per hour by pilot and copilot
(Two silver round flat disc-shaped objects, looking like "skeet targets") Mountain Home, Idaho - 12:00 p.m.

August 19 - ..."terrific speed"
(multiple groups of flying objects in the night sky. These formations resembled a "glow in the air" the color of electric lights. The "lights" flew in triangular formations. At one point three of them peeled-off of a larger group of ten and sped away in a different direction.) Twin Falls, Idaho - 9:39 P.M. MST

-continued-

September 12 - ...zooming out of sight at tremendous speed (in six seconds), estimated at over 1,000 miles per hour.
(two separate orbs) Midway Island - 1:00 A.M. local time

Wow. This is the best, informative thread I've ever seen!

Originally posted by A51Watcher
June 28 - ...approached the observers in a jagged, zigzagging course, with frequent bursts of speed... to a point directly overhead, and the four officers reported that it then made a sharp, sudden 90° turn toward the south... they heard no noise.
(strangely maneuvering light) Montgomery, Alabama - 9:20 p.m. CST (7:20pmPST)

Hi A51

There are some incredible speeds there. But a lot of these might be simply exceptionally quick conventional craft that the witnesses didn't recognise. That's what drew my attention to the report above....

There is no way this is a conventional craft from that period, or even current technology. This jagged zigzagging at high speed would likely kill the pilot as a result of the physical forces exerted on his/her body. More examples of these impossible seeming movements would raise some fascinating questions.

I have also seen examples of objects doing 90 degree turns and stopping dead from high speeds. Did the newspapers in that locality report many such examples? The possibility of craft not originating from Earthly technology coupled with suspiciously high air accident reports right where the most sensitive military tests on Earth were being conducted is intriguing to say the least.

Originally posted by dgtempe
Wow. This is the best, informative thread I've ever seen!

Well now... that's really quite a compliment coming from such a long time member.

Many thanks.

(I find some of the sightings really 'creepy' actually)

Originally posted by Pimander
Hi A51

There are some incredible speeds there. But a lot of these might be simply exceptionally quick conventional craft that the witnesses didn't recognise....

Yes perhaps, they -might- be.
However none of the reports mention conventional craft.

They are all round silver metallic discs, meaning that regardless of propulsion, they have no control surfaces.
No means of guiding or turning the areroform.

And with 'exceptionally quick' ones these surfaces become even more important.

Also, many of the reports are from trained witnesses who gauged their speed as accurately as they could. Even with a margin of error, these speeds go WAY beyoned the pale of earthly technology.

We also have a theodolite recording showing 15,000 MPH. So our trained observers estimates ranging from 1200 to 3500 mph were if anything, conservative.

The rest of of our observers seemed to second that motion, with various colorful descriptors such as
'going like a bat out of hell', 'terrific speed', 'incredible', 'hurtling through the air', etc., all designed to clearly get the point across that these were something completely new.

That's what drew my attention to the report above....

There is no way this is a conventional craft from that period, or even current technology. This jagged zigzagging at high speed would likely kill the pilot as a result of the physical forces exerted on his/her body.

Precisely. Not to mention the craft itself.

More examples of these impossible seeming movements would raise some fascinating questions.

I think I have a few more examples of those lying around somewhere.

I have also seen examples of objects doing 90 degree turns and stopping dead from high speeds.
Did the newspapers in that locality report many such examples?

I will sort out a list.

The possibility of craft not originating from Earthly technology coupled with suspiciously high air accident reports right where the most sensitive military tests on Earth were being conducted is intriguing to say the least.

Indeed.

First remote control bombs/ guided bombs were created by Germany. Nazi Germany.

After their defeat the US scooped it all up and used them for the first time when the United States re-took Guam.

They were radio controlling bombs to Japanese targets/ villages on Guam.


The super secret flying thingy's were remote controlled flying discs all right. Crazy wacko's were beaming up heavy amounts of energy for them to fly and didn't realize the energy mirrored off the upper atmosphere and was really doing some damage to living things on Earth. Nor did they care at the time of radiation leaching from said objects into the air people were breathing.

That's why it can't ever ever ever be declassified. And the whole "weather balloon" and "aliens ufo" PsyOps programs.

People are generally stupid and don't realize the energy/radiation hitting them right now. Case in point.....how many minutes per week is considered safe by the FCC for cellphone exposure to you?

People are generally stupid.

Originally posted by Pervius
The super secret flying thingy's were remote controlled flying discs all right. Crazy wacko's were beaming up heavy amounts of energy for them to fly and didn't realize the energy mirrored off the upper atmosphere and was really doing some damage to living things on Earth. Nor did they care at the time of radiation leaching from said objects into the air people were breathing.

That's why it can't ever ever ever be declassified. And the whole "weather balloon" and "aliens ufo" PsyOps programs.

I'm guessing you have some evidence that this is the case?

If you are correct, why does the propulsion system produce so much radiation? Why did they spend trillions developing rocketry if they had a better propulsion system available?

Originally posted by Pimander

Originally posted by Pervius
The super secret flying thingy's were remote controlled flying discs all right. Crazy wacko's were beaming up heavy amounts of energy for them to fly and didn't realize the energy mirrored off the upper atmosphere and was really doing some damage to living things on Earth. Nor did they care at the time of radiation leaching from said objects into the air people were breathing.

That's why it can't ever ever ever be declassified. And the whole "weather balloon" and "aliens ufo" PsyOps programs.

I'm guessing you have some evidence that this is the case?

At this point we can safely assume the answer is no.