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In my opinion, you are offering a fantastic option. Also, I don't accept a single alleged "alien abduction" as having any basis in reality. They are all mental construction and the "evidence" points in that direction.
Originally posted by Unknown Soldier
reply to post by The Shrike
In my opinion, you are offering a fantastic option. Also, I don't accept a single alleged "alien abduction" as having any basis in reality. They are all mental construction and the "evidence" points in that direction.
Really? So you are saying you can explain away these cases?
www.abovetopsecret.com...
What evidence points in the direction of? You mean lack there of, please do tell. They are all a mental construction? So you had the chance to mentally evaluate all these abductees?
Hahahah Oh Shrike you make me laugh in your attempt to sanitize the UNEXPLAINEDedit on 15-1-2011 by Unknown Soldier because: (no reason given)
Aliens have never abducted skeptics, only believers. How do "they" know who is a skeptic and who is a believer and why do they choose believers?
Originally posted by Unknown Soldier
Aliens have never abducted skeptics, only believers. How do "they" know who is a skeptic and who is a believer and why do they choose believers?
Sure there have, and because you had sleep paralysis and can explain what happened to you does not mean every one else has the same experience, your experience sounds unlike an abduction scenario so I agree you were not abducted. But it really does not relate to each end every person that has claimed to be abducted. Not all people think the same this is where your error in judgment begins. You are generalizing an entire group of individuals as a whole, in a stereo type. While some are flaky and unstable others are very down to earth average people who are skeptical of the subject like myself. Im saying in your line of explanation and theory does not look at the wide spectrum of it and all the factors that go along with it.
Im guessing all the witnesses that Observed these abductions as well must have been under the same Mental condition as well? Total strangers to the abductee mind you were subject to this contagious mental condition as well? Please tell me something i have not heard in the 20 plus years looking for a viable answer. You would be surprised how many of us are not willing to invest total belief in to the Alien answer. Its not a subject i would suggest reading up on while wearing blinders.
…There is only thing I think SI may possess a possible fragment of and that is the idea that some individuals are more conscious than others…
They Come From Within
by mikeboydus
Originally posted by The GUT
reply to post by The Shrike
…There is only thing I think SI may possess a possible fragment of and that is the idea that some individuals are more conscious than others…
They Come From Within
by mikeboydus
I just happened to be reading that outstanding thread and it made me think of you & your posts around here, Shrike. So maybe something like that is part of the reason some attain--or are involuntarily subjected to--astral experiences and others are just pinned to the bed on their stomach.
Plus, you're alright and all that but have you ever considered that your raspy personality might bore beings from another dimension? Or scare 'em--you are feisty and I give you respect for that.
For anyone else here that might be interested the thread above is a tour de force far-ranging synthesis & hypothesis of topics that will interest many here on this thread. From Vallee & Hynek to Theosphy to Jung to Swedenborg to Quantum puzzles and so much more. I'm still reading it. Check it out.
edit on 15-1-2011 by The GUT because: clarification
Originally posted by The Shrike
quote] ...I used to work for The American Society For Psychical Research when they were housed on 5th Ave., NYC, in 1969. I was the Assistant to the Executive Secretary and maintaining the Society's library, with its thousands of books, was my responsibility. The Society moved to its present address at West 73rd St. I didn't go with them...
...I became a topnotch hypnotist...
Originally posted by The GUT
Originally posted by The Shrike
quote] ...I used to work for The American Society For Psychical Research when they were housed on 5th Ave., NYC, in 1969. I was the Assistant to the Executive Secretary and maintaining the Society's library, with its thousands of books, was my responsibility. The Society moved to its present address at West 73rd St. I didn't go with them...
...I became a topnotch hypnotist...
That's pretty cool stuff, Shrike. I don't want to get off topic here, but I would definitely like to hear your opinion on whether someone can--as opposed to most claims about hypnotism--be induced to do something that is in conflict with their value system?
And back to this subject somewhat: So you don't believe in abductions & such...does that mean you have no belief in a non-human consciousness existing in a dimension normally unseen by 'us' in this one?
Originally posted by Pimander
This is not just a re-hash of old material. After a brief review of the topic, I will discuss a new angle that I don't remember seeing anybody else bring to the table.
The experiences of alien abduction/visitation have been reported by many thousands of people. Let us remind ourselves that the experience goes back into history. It is only in the space-age that it has been associated with aliens. Ancient examples include the incubus and the Celtic fairy phenomenon.
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/f4bd79b7074d.jpg[/atsimg]
In modern times, while the historical aspects of the phenomena continue, a new dimension has manifested. This is the space age popular notion of the Alien Abduction. The Hills Abduction (1961) is probably the most famous and first well known example.
Five of the most solid cases are discussed in this thread by JKrog. JKrog draws the conclusion from studying these cases that the following conclusion.
In conclusion,obviously we can see the stunning similarities here stretched out not only by space(accounts all over the world),but by time as well.All the creatures look the same,the modus operandi is the same,I think these can also be presented as a clincher for proof of aliens existence.I am more than willing to hear any and all debate on any one of these cases,as well as invite opinions from the members who believe in this ongoing phenomena. www.abovetopsecret.com...
The 'alien abduction' phenomenon has, given us remarkably little by way of physical evidence. One of the few examples is an alien hair that was left on the penis of Australian, Peter Khoury after a visitation experience. This hair was subjected to DNA analysis and showed that the DNA was a extremely rare human Asian type which is further from the human mainstream that all but the African pygmy family. Bill Chalkers article on this case can be found here. He has also written a book on the case.
As Chalker discusses below, we had more of this type of evidence to work with. As a trained scientist with a working knowledge of molecular genetics, I can only concur. I would love the opportunity to review more of this type of research. It is high time mainstream UFOlogy and alien research became a more credible discipline.
I certainly would be more comfortable if dozens of samples like that from Khoury’s experience existed and if their testing revealed some consistency of results. But for now we have only this anomalous sample, which has provided us with a strange DNA profile. Meanwhile, our findings will continue to be subjected to review and debate. While the Khoury case confirms the utility of the DNA forensic approach, the real challenge ahead for researchers is to determine if these anomalies are both valid and significant. To do this, abduction researchers should cooperate in a testing program focused on DNA profiling. Testing of a significant number of legitimate samples would allow us to validate or invalidate the apparent anomalies so far documented. Such a strategy could help us determine whether the aliens are a biological reality and if indeed any of them are visiting our planet and abducting humans.
Chalker, Bill (1995). Hair of the Alien: The DNA Paradigm.
As is well known, the experience is associated with sleep paralysis. This has been taken by many sceptical researchers and pschologists to dismiss the phenomenon as a physiological or spiritual experience.. Skyfloating wrote an interesting peice in the OP to this interesting thread and draws the conclusion that it is all astral in origin.
Originally posted by Skyfloating
So why do I think that the "Grays" are not actually ETs but astral-beings? Because:
* Almost all Abduction accounts take place in the bedroom in states of sleep, half-sleep, half-waking, etc. The only way the astral-world is accesible is in a state between waking and sleeping.
* Some Abductees talk of sleep-paralysis, which is a telltale-sign of an astral-experience.
* The only physical evidence that ever shows up is related to the physical body (scars, wounds, rashes). The astral-level, in conjunction with the mind is able to create such phenomena (if the mind is convinced of its reality) but unlikely to have any stronger influence on the physical realm.
* The actions performed are not immediately recognizable as those we might associate benevolence or a species that is ethically highly advanced with. Holding people against their will is more typical of astral-entities.
There is a more important reason I think alien-abductions may not be alien-abductions but astral-phenomenon: Because I experienced abductions myself, as a child. And I also experienced astral-projection. And sleep-paralysis. And they all tied in with each other. And the experiences were very real, even horrifying, but they did not seem to take place in the same reality as waking-life. And I didn't seem able to bring back evidence of the experiences as they all happened at night.
www.abovetopsecret.com...
But could JKrog be right that there is a real group of creatures responsible?
My new suggestion on the alien abduction/visitation phenomenon is as follows. What if the modern manifestation is due to an exploitation of the physiological mechanism of sleep paralysis. This could be by either an extra-dimensional race (which ties in nicely with both JKrog's and Skyfloating's respective ideas above) or Extraterrestrial race or even a mixture of the both.
If the phenomena is partly physical, evidenced by the hair mentioned above, marks on the body mentioned by Skyfloating and even the reports of possible implants then it must be possible to induce sleep paralysis by an astral (extra-dimensional) or technological means. This would also mean that covert MILABS operations may have exploited the same techniques in the MILABS abductions mentioned in this thread started by decoy.edit on 15/1/11 by Pimander because: Altered thread title
Originally posted by nomadros
I've banged on about this on here before, so in a nutshell, if you want "sleep paralysis" do the following and if you don't, then don't.
Find a room with a smooth, plain, light coloured wall that has a store room or unused room on the other side of it. The key point is the other room must have been undisturbed for a long time (some months minimum). The wall must have no decorations (pictures etc) on it. Move your bed length ways against the wall so that you are sleeping parallel to and directly adjacent to the wall. "It" won't happen immediately but this is the sleep paralysis equivalent of painting a massive "inter-dimensional" bullseye on your ass.
Originally posted by torsion
reply to post by Pimander
The fact is that there has never been any independently witnessed abduction. Nobody has stood there and watched a group of non-human entities carry a person away.
Originally posted by Pimander
My new suggestion on the alien abduction/visitation phenomenon is as follows. What if the modern manifestation is due to an exploitation of the physiological mechanism of sleep paralysis.
During the first two decades of research when the very concept of a UFO abduction was formed, all of the central cases involved people who were outside their homes when they were taken.
None were lying paralyzed and half asleep in their bedrooms.
Instead they were driving automobiles, fishing, hunting, making their rounds as police officers, even, in one famous case, driving a tractor on a farm.
www.intrudersfoundation.org...
Neurophysiological explanations include sleep paralysis and temporal lobe epilepsy (Spanos et al. 1993; Persinger 1992; Blackmore 1994), but researchers exploring these possibilities have either failed to find such pathology among abduction experiencers or have chosen to overlook important aspects of the phenomenon.
For example, many abduction experiences occur under conditions that do not appear to be associated with sleep.
Second, abduction experiences are often corroborated by independent UFO sightings or physical evidence.
Third, neurophysiological explanations do not account for hyperarousal and anxiety triggered by certain events or images symbolically linked to abduction.
With the integration of the specific abduction-related traumatic experience, these reactions sometimes resolve, as predicted by theories of post traumatic stress disorder.
www.ufoevidence.org...
For those of you who think that this subject is purely a psychological one, or an aberration of our brain’s unfathomable functionality, we would ask you to think again. Several abduction cases have been witnessed by independent third parties, for example, the infamous Brooklyn Bridge case with its multifaceted development.
Budd Hopkins started off almost routinely investigating the claims of one Linda Cortile that she was abducted from her apartment by aliens of the ‘grey’ variety.
Apparently, the creatures had somehow floated Cortile through the window of her 12th-floor apartment, despite it being locked and covered with a metal child-guard fence. The aliens then levitated the helpless Cortile up into the belly of the waiting craft, where they began examining her back and her right nostril. She was then questioned about her family before being allowed to leave the examining table. She headed for the door of the craft and suddenly found herself back in bed at home.
Anyhow, apart from this detail, this case was no different from many that Budd had investigated, a consistency that had led to his conclusion that there was a disturbing underlying reality to the phenomenon. It was what was later to emerge that made this case stand out.
Budd started to receive letters from two men who claimed to have witnessed the abduction. Their accounts of the event tallied with that of Linda. They claimed to be bodyguards escorting a senior UN statesman through Manhattan when the three of them were confronted with the site of a woman and several entities floating in mid-air up to a UFO.
To add to Budd’s burgeoning file on the case, further witnesses came forward. They described the same incredible scene that they, too, had witnessed from the Brooklyn Bridge that night.
So, Budd left the man’s identity undisclosed in the book, although dropping enough clues for others to establish who he was. The hypothesis was aired that the whole incident was for the former Secretary General’s benefit, to perhaps raise the exposure of the Greys’ presence on Earth within the corridors of power.
The story of Betty and Barney Hill begins in September 1961, in the state of New Hampshire. Barney had recently developed an ulcer, and he and his wife Betty decided to take a short vacation to Canada. The couple had visited Niagara Falls, and Montreal, and on the 19th of the month, they began their journey back home to Portsmouth. The night was clear, with a crescent moon shining on the heavily wooded landscape that surrounded US Route 3 in the central part of New Hampshire.
At about a quarter past 10:00 P.M., three miles south of the city of Lancaster, Barney noticed what appeared to be a bright star, or planet. which seemed to move erratically. Barney pointed this out to Betty, and they both began to keep track of the object.
www.ufocasebook.com...
In the city of South Ashburnham, Massachusetts on the night of January 25, 1967, one of the most celebrated cases of UFO abduction began. Betty Andreasson was working in her kitchen while her seven children, mother, and father were in the living room.
Shortly after 6:30, the lights in the house briefly blinked. Immediately thereafter, a reddish light began to beam through the kitchen window. The sudden darkness in the house set the kids nerves on edge, and Betty ran to comfort them. Her father ran into the kitchen to peer out the window, and find the source of the unusual light.
www.ufocasebook.com...
In Ashland, Nebraska, on December 3, 1967, Herbert Schirmer, a 22 years young patrolman, was making his usual rounds. He had checked the Ashland Sales Barn, and several gas stations along Highway 6 when he noticed what he thought were red lights on top of a large truck. He had just passed through the intersection of Highways 6 and 63 at about 2:00 AM.
He drove the short distance down 63 and stopped with his headlights shining on the object. According to Schirmer, the object was definitely not a truck. The red lights that he had seen were blinking through the oval portholes of a metallic, oval-shaped object that was hovering at a height of about eight feet above the road's surface.
www.ufocasebook.com...
This baffling UFO case began on November 5th, 1975, in northeastern Arizona's Apache-Sitgreaves National Forest. A logging crew of 7 men were working on a government contract, clearing forest. The men loaded into a single pickup truck leaving work for the day. As they started their journey home, they saw, not far from the road, a "luminous object, shaped like a flattened disc."
All of the men agreed that Travis Walton, captivated by the sight, left the truck to get a closer look. While gazing up in awe at the object, suddenly a brilliant bluish light struck him and threw him to the ground some distance away. This event caused the other crew members to flee the scene in fear for their lives. After arguing among themselves, they decided to go back and see if they could help Travis. Returning to the scene, they found no trace of the craft, or Travis.
www.ufocasebook.com...