What do we do if another erad3 starts up?

Why single out Loughners style and subsequent actions? I believe there may have been at least two other posters here who went on to commit murders.
And on the flip side of that, I can think of at least three or more posters here now who could easily qualify for further scrutiny if we are going to start looking upon unintelligible ramblings as a sign of possible future homicidal actions. Where do we set that bar? Are all people that believe in UFOs crazy? Are you or I crazy?

As a forum we should do nothing. As people we should act and converse as we normally do. The burden of Loughners, or anybody elses, actions do not lie with ATS itself or with us.

reply to post by beezzer


Haven't read through this thread... the title just caught my attention and I just have to say........
According to many of the posts/thread I've seen here at ATS since the murders.... there already are many members with mentality just like erad3.

Here's just 1 perfect example

Thanks for posting.
WHERE do we draw the line? I mean, it's not our job to monitor, right? But do the mods have to carry the burden? Do they have degrees in psychiatry?
We have no responsibility. But is that okay? Granted, erad3 gave no indication of harming anyone with his posts.
But what if one poster did?

If one poster did show signs and it wasn't deemed a wrongful accusation then mods and admin could in essence alert somebody of relevence but after pointing it out, again not much they can do about it.

Besides, I know from experience having been a mod at a forum with literally thousands of members visiting and posting daily how hard it can be to keep up with everyone so a site and forum as big as ATS (even if the subject matter ws totally different I admit) would be unthinkable and possibly unteneble as far as keeping up with what each member does.

Originally posted by beezzer
You are absolutely correct. But since his "outing" won't others look at this or any post that appears off-kilter and jump to conclusions? I mean, look at all the false allegations made concerning this incident! The press, the MSM, doesn't care about being right.

You got it. That's the line I was waiting for. It sure isn't just this website, it's everywhere all the time. What has to change is not ATS, it's the internet as a whole. People shoot their mouths off as if they feel there's no consequences at all. It's actually pretty funny when you think of it. Some even brag about doing illegal things because they think there's anonymity in a weird username. Yeah, sure there is, right up until court date when all the online evidence is presented. Try and get a job somewhere without Facebook accounts being checked into. Twitter? Oh, yeah.

Then there's all the other venues available. Got a political party you despise? Let it all hang out, because you'll never be held to account for what you say online. Oh, no, it's impossible because I'm invisible. Woot.

Google any news site, click on a story and then check out the reader comments. Wow. Talk about an ignorant bunch of crap. It makes ATS look exceptionally intelligent by comparison.

At least here there's a concerted effort to stem the tide of ridiclous statements.

Bottom line is that we are all responsible for what we post (get this important part now, you can't miss it...)

FOREVER!

Don't worry so much what somebody else says. It's not your concern.

Originally posted by curious7
If one poster did show signs and it wasn't deemed a wrongful accusation then mods and admin could in essence alert somebody of relevence but after pointing it out, again not much they can do about it.

Besides, I know from experience having been a mod at a forum with literally thousands of members visiting and posting daily how hard it can be to keep up with everyone so a site and forum as big as ATS (even if the subject matter ws totally different I admit) would be unthinkable and possibly unteneble as far as keeping up with what each member does.

I'm a former mod myself, but so much of what we discuss here is subjective. Taken out of context, anyone of us could be targeted.
It's an impossible task, but one that will be isolated/glorified/and blown out of proportion, with forensic detail when all is said and done.

Originally posted by Lug


Don't worry so much what somebody else says. It's not your concern.

But it will be my concern when what he says, just by association, will target me. Again, the press, MSM, doesn't care about being right. They want shock, readers, followers. We are put in an impossible situation here, with no clear venue.

Because it isn't about the site, the posters, the mods, it's about the individual. And no one focuses on that aspect anymore. You could post nothing but sunshine and unicorns all day long, then go out and commit a horrible act and someone, somewhere, will link it to what you said.

Click here for more information.

reply to post by Electric Crown


This is what I mean though, is he tweeked, or is he tweeked like us? I can't be the only person on ATS that has thought this. It's McCarthy-ism all over again.

Are you now, or have you ever been a member of. . . . . . a conspiracy site?

It's a doorway I don't want opened. And by bringing it up, I hope to defuse the situation.

reply to post by beezzer


The same thing we did in this case.
Nothing. He wasn't talking violent. Most people probably just thought he was a troll.
If you reported him precisely nothing would happen except you may be infringing on some asshole trolls rights if he were to get investigated. It's no ones fault. Why not hold his classes at school to blame because he wrote things there as well? No point, nothing we can do that we should do.

Originally posted by GogoVicMorrow
reply to post by beezzer

 

The same thing we did in this case.
Nothing. He wasn't talking violent. Most people probably just thought he was a troll.
If you reported him precisely nothing would happen except you may be infringing on some asshole trolls rights if he were to get investigated. It's no ones fault. Why not hold his classes at school to blame because he wrote things there as well? No point, nothing we can do that we should do.

Brilliant! It's all about personal responsibility. That's what I wanted to hear. And that is what is needed t be said!

Thank you.

Originally posted by beezzer
But it will be my concern when what he says, just by association, will target me.

Horsepucky. If it is a personal concern to you if a member here is targeting you, give a shout out to the mods. Let them handle it. If there's a REAL personal threat posted or sent to you by U2U, they'd be gone within the hour because the T&C's are there to protect you from that.

If you're online making statements like the rest of us, then you're liable to get answered by any one of the billion or so other internet users who just might contain another JLL. Ya never know.

How could you guarantee me that by saying horsepucky to you that you won't be targeting me as a result? I don't know you. Heck, you could be all sorts of psychopathic and I'd have no way of knowing it because they are expert at hiding their true intentions.

The only way to really stay safe is to go and hide in the castle keep and put your faith in paid guards. Good luck with that though. I hear Blackwater/Xe isn't all that trustworthy

Originally posted by Lug

Originally posted by beezzer
But it will be my concern when what he says, just by association, will target me.

Horsepucky. If it is a personal concern to you if a member here is targeting you, give a shout out to the mods. Let them handle it. If there's a REAL personal threat posted or sent to you by U2U, they'd be gone within the hour because the T&C's are there to protect you from that.

If you're online making statements like the rest of us, then you're liable to get answered by any one of the billion or so other internet users who just might contain another JLL. Ya never know.

How could you guarantee me that by saying horsepucky to you that you won't be targeting me as a result? I don't know you. Heck, you could be all sorts of psychopathic and I'd have no way of knowing it because they are expert at hiding their true intentions.

The only way to really stay safe is to go and hide in the castle keep and put your faith in paid guards. Good luck with that though. I hear Blackwater/Xe isn't all that trustworthy

You are right. 100%
This issue could be carried over to TSA, terrorists, bombing et al. Sometimes freedom carries a risk. Sometimes you have to have that risk in order to have freedom. Here? It's freedom of speech. In the real world, it's freedom to travel, freedom to talk, freedom to write, freedom to pray, freedom to do what YOU want. Because we can scare our own selves into a corner. And it may not be one we can escape.

I dont think its up to anyone on this board to determine whether or not someone might do something illegal and could you really tell by the threats that he posted here that he would have done what he did? if so they maybe you should work for the fbi and you can keep stuff like this from happening.

What criteria would you use to justify reporting someone, ect? Also who are you to judge what someone says on the internet to be truth/joking/fun/propaganda/ect? I can say all the things in the world on the internet on some random msg board does that mean im going to do what I say? Should I be penalized for joking? For people being so obsessed with freedoms and whatnot it seems like a lot of people on this site like to tell people what to do and push their views and are against freedom of speech.

From what I have read nothing that jarad posted anywhere online would make me think he was going to kill anyone, its not like he had a list of names with cross-hairs on them, oh wait that was sarah palin sorry maybe she should be reported? Oh wait no one cares because government can do anything they want and it wasn't meant the way people took it even though someone on the list was shot and almost killed.

Brings to mind something I had wanted to suggest a while ago. Is there any way to possibly assign some form of "grading" system whereby ATS mods, members, or some third party could quantify the subjectivity vs. objectivity in any thread and it's subject. I would suspect the thread itself would be as far as needed since subsequent posts are well moderated by moderators moderating their domain (duplicitous, repetitive, redundant verbiage and pun intended). If there were three threads, each regarding subject "A", there are countless criteria that could be sensibly applied enabling such a system whereby a very quick glance would advise the reader how solidly based in reality or conjecture said subject is. In fact, it could be possible (maybe even fun) for the OPs themselves to pro-actively assign their own "grade" of subjectivity, subject to validation by mods, upon posting the thread.

As with all things in life, we are ultimately responsible for filtering and/or censoring what we deem acceptable for ourselves. Free speech often seems to interfere with itself through what many would consider ill-advised or inappropriate comments or positions which, however, should in turn lead to open and honest (hopefully) debate and discussion.

ATS is a tremendous asset, but without an internal mechanism to police itself could potentially become a pool of abuse without limitation. I for one think the mods do an exemplary and mostly thankless job here, but nothing is perfect and in order to preserve the best possible outlet and resource for us all change may eventually become necessary. I suspect there is no one answer that will satisfy all the masses, and for me personally I will be content as is or I can abide by the better judgment of those who, as I said earlier, are already doing a fine job.

Originally posted by Sauron
reply to post by beezzer

 

It is nothing you need worry about, if you see a post or thread that you think has breached the TOS, just alert the the thread or post. Don't reply to it, or quote it in a reply. That will lead to your post being removed as off topic or edited..

Bottom line just use the alert tab and let the staff deal with it.

If there is a problem with this action however, it is that people like erad did not breach the ToS. They were merely space cadets with no ties left to reality.

The red flag gets raised for me when I see a thread where the OP states conclusive evidence, offers nothing but opinion based on faulty information, and then resorts to attacking anyone who does not agree with them.

These are the people I think we should be concerned about, but they don't often break the ToS so we can't use the alert button.

I doubt there is anything we can do as members anyway, there are a number of people on here who I'd distance myself from if we were on the same bus as it is - but no one is a mind reader.

reply to post by TKDRL



yeah...

Currently there is a real erad3 running amok throughout America.....


It's real name is the federal government and their best friends, unnaccountable corporate contractors....

Well you definitely DO NOT purchase a bright red banana hammock for him!!

But seriously... nothing.

Some people actually do snap when they behavr normally all of the time. That's why you hear so many times "I would have never thought so and so was like that". Then again some people can appear as crazy as a crap house rat and actively/positively affect society.

Who ever knows what someone else will do? Post and let the authorities deal with the rest. Unless of course someone actually threatens to do something bad, then you have to go with your gut.

Some other dude was trying to recruit people into doing random acts of violence. Isn't that supposed to be against the rules?