Dealing with cops, understanding your rights,.... by a cop.

reply to post by seeashrink


What are the likely consequences of a driver's choosing to remain completely silent during a traffic stop? Suppose you are a mute or have taken a vow of silence. What will happen to you as a result of your unorthodoxy?

Originally posted by 46ACE
I'll second the kudos for standing up here;Thank you for presenting the patrol officers side.

If you don't mind Sir; could you comment on the "rash" of taserings for seemingly minimal reasons ( i. .e old ladies or floundering with a license etc)? That we've seen become fairly common in the past few years. I can perfectly understand the taser is effective to control a struggling or dangerous individual or situation. But it appears ( and GRANTED we never have the entire story) It is being applied in situations one wouldn't ordinarily elevate to the level of a baton. It increases fear and resentment within the public.

edit on 14-1-2011 by 46ACE because: (no reason given)

in my small town a demented old man of 70 ignored the cops following him with their lights on for speeding, pulled into his driveway, and started walking into his house. four cops on the scene. what did they do? they tasered him. what happened to grabbing a guy? he made no threatening gestures, he was 70, just walking away from them, and they tasered him. i have heard many similar stories. whoever is training these fools is teaching them that we are animals and their own saftey is the ONLY concern. that is..um..idk...evil, at leats in a "free" society.

Originally posted by Orkojoker
reply to post by seeashrink

 

What are the likely consequences of a driver's choosing to remain completely silent during a traffic stop? Suppose you are a mute or have taken a vow of silence. What will happen to you as a result of your unorthodoxy?

Easy, trip to the iron bar palace....or worse the loony bin.

Originally posted by kennylee
reply to post by seeashrink

 

I don't hold any animosity against them for their beating. It was a bad deal all the way around. Honestly, it made me finally straighten my life out, so even though it wasn't right on their part, it helped me in the long run. I guess you could say that they knocked some sense into me..

You're just lucky you are male. If it had been a young lady who had gotten belligerent and kicked out the window of the police cruiser, it sounds like she may have been in for a violent gang rape by these peace keepers. Although I'm sure she would have later realized that the experience was good for her in the long run. A character builder, you know.

Originally posted by Golf66

Originally posted by Orkojoker
reply to post by seeashrink

 

What are the likely consequences of a driver's choosing to remain completely silent during a traffic stop? Suppose you are a mute or have taken a vow of silence. What will happen to you as a result of your unorthodoxy?

Easy, trip to the iron bar palace....or worse the loony bin.

Is failure to speak really a jailable offense? I doubt it. If so, I would enjoy reading the statute. And I think I'd take a psych ward over prison any day. Ahhh, Juicy Fruit.

reply to post by TheFlash


I already posted that video back on page 6

Originally posted by fixer1967

Originally posted by 11PB11
Hey guys, this is what I do every time I get pulled over and I would advise you to do it too......

I record the conversation on my phone, and I place the phone above the steering wheel on the dash so it has no problem recording. Not that I get pulled over a lot, but i've had my dealings with good and bad cops, and you never know which kind youre getting. So do everyone a favor in keeping the bad cops in check by recording!

By the act of recording the conversation you could go to jail. Have you not heard. Recording or tapping cops can get you thrown in jail even if the reording is being used to defend you in court. They can tape you but you can not tape them.

Don't say that. You can tape them and should tape them. Even if they say otherwise. They lie.

reply to post by seeashrink


this corporate officer has been INDOCTRINATED and is trying to indoctrinate you.

PROVE UP YOUR CLAIM!!!

WHERE THERE IS NO CONTRACT THERE IS NO CLAIM.. i am NO PARTY TO ANY OF YOUR CONTRACTS

here is a detailed example www.gemworld.com...

A couple things I would also recommend, to help put the cop pulling you over at ease with you initially is this:

1. When being pulled over(at nighttime obviously) always turn your interior lights on the moment you stop the car. This will make the interior of your car plainly visible to the officer and let him know/see that you are not reaching or hiding anything.

2. When being pulled over also the moment you stop the car, rest your left arm on the door with your hand up towards the roof or resting out the window. Put your right arm resting outstretched with your hand resting on the passenger seats head rest. Like above, it will let the officer see both of your hands and know that there is nothing in them(weapon) and that your not hiding anything.

3. When pulling over on a roadway, especially a highway, pull over and park the same way the cops do, swing over to the right of the roadway then pull back sharply to the left..this will create a pocket for the cop to stand in and talk to you off the roadway.

I have done this for years, and I can say without question that it has always put the officer at ease and much more friendlier right from the jump.

reply to post by nenothtu


you also saw someone who said an angry officer might just arrest you for no reason if you piss him off. so you saw illegal abuse of power.

as an earlier post said, "these instructions would work perfectly in a fascist police state. exactly as one should behave in nazi germany? what the person you are criticizing was saying is that police powers have gone too far if they can arrest you cuz they are angry.

Human system is flawed. For over a year or so I was targeted by a cop. He responded to a wreck I had. A neighbor across the street told the cop that a passenger had run into the woods (this wasn't true, I'm telling the forums as a stranger with no reason to lie) I assume he saw a person that had stopped to see if I was alright leave and thought it was my passenger. Anyway the cops came to a decision that I was on drugs, though I wasn't and it had nothing to do with my wreck there was probably evidence that I dabble ; P Either way, they let me go instead of drug testing me. When they asked if I had called a tow truck I said no, and they said don't worry about it and got their own. Well I guess it was a cop's friend or a cop that owned a tow truck, because If I had my choice the tow truck driver I use costs about 100 dollars less. They charged 150 dollars to tow my car less than 2 miles. THE KICKER? When I pulled in the "tow truck driver" was using a flashlight to look into the windows of my other car.

For a year after that when that cop saw me he pulled me over and required a search.. I guess he regretted not getting me that night.

reply to post by seeashrink


This thread really helps to understand the cop role, but we have to also remember that they are just doing their job! If it weren't for the police, our neighborhoods would be in constant distraught.

Play the game, be nice to the authorities!

I should correct myself by saying that perhaps Canadian Police are much "nicer" than American Police. I personally had "good" experiences with cops, and like always, if you treat them with respect and cooperate, things go much smoothly

...like the time I almost got a speeding ticket on my way to university...I gave the cop a sob story I was running late...so he gave me a warning (only because his son was attending the same institute as me! lol)

reply to post by urmenimu2


a few questions for the various officers posting on this forum. and if your going to answer, please answer all.
1. why do cops always say " i found this on his/her person"
2. why when in court, they always have to ask if not only "do you understand the terms", but also, they ask "do you agree". if there is no option, then why ask??
3. why is it that in the black's law dictionary. a person can in many occasions be a corporation??
4. if the law is indeed for the people. why make it so complicated that no average citizen can understand it??
5. why can a corporation be considered to be a natural person??, isn't a corporation a commercial fiction??N ya i know, that kinda go's together with # 3
6. what are your views upon compliance under duress??
7. what are your views on a notice of understanding and intent and claim of right??
8. if registering is only cor record keeping, then why is the definition of recording not one in the same??
9. what is the difference of real and personal?? and by that i mean the legal terms.
10. whats the difference between acting legally and lawfully??
11. is equality before the law paramount and mandatory??
12. have you ever heard of a fee schedule??
13. is a society not a group of people joined together in pursuit of a common goal??

ok i think im going a lil off the deep end, so i'll end with just one more.

14. why do you not need a drivers license # nor a ssn to obtain a pass port??

ps. im sure i'll think of more
and note, i mean no dishonor, i merely seek closure in my current understandings

Here are my suggestions for getting pulled over, I have used this technique many times and has always worked in my favor. Please correct me if you think any of this is incorrect or I should do it differently.

Once the car is stopped turn on the dome light. This will allow the officer to see everything in your car and give them reasonable assurance that there are no weapons lying around. Next take the keys out of the ignition and place them on top of the steering column or dashboard, so they know you do not plan to leave the scene before you are supposed to. Next Place your hands on top of the steering wheel so they can be assured that you are not intending to reach for a weapon or try to harm them when they approach your window.

After this anything can happen really but I do know for certain making them comfortable and feeling safe is the most important thing you can try and do. I read this all in a magazine or something and made a point to remember it. Like I said I have used this exact technique many times since then and 4 out of 5 times I was allowed to proceed with no tickets or warnings.

reply to post by sputniksteve


It may also help to sing a really good song before the cop walks to your car. It will help calm your nerves!

Originally posted by Skywatcher2011
reply to post by seeashrink

 

This thread really helps to understand the cop role, but we have to also remember that they are just doing their job! If it weren't for the police, our neighborhoods would be in constant distraught.

Play the game, be nice to the authorities!

I should correct myself by saying that perhaps Canadian Police are much "nicer" than American Police. I personally had "good" experiences with cops, and like always, if you treat them with respect and cooperate, things go much smoothly

...like the time I almost got a speeding ticket on my way to university...I gave the cop a sob story I was running late...so he gave me a warning (only because his son was attending the same institute as me! lol)

edit on 15-1-2011 by Skywatcher2011 because: added extra note

it doesnt surprise me that canadian police are nicer.. everyone is kinda nicer in canada. its different.


as a side note: my props to the OP. i enjoyed reading this thread, and the OP clearly has character. i like that.

a few questions for the various officers posting on this forum. and if your going to answer, please answer all.
1. why do cops always say " i found this on his/her person"
2. why when in court, they always have to ask not only "do you understand the terms", but also, they ask "do you agree". if there is no option, then why ask??
3. why is it that in the black's law dictionary. a person can in many occasions be a corporation??
4. if the law is indeed for the people. why make it so complicated that no average citizen can understand it??
5. why can a corporation be considered to be a natural person??, isn't a corporation a commercial fiction??N ya i know, that kinda go's together with # 3
6. what are your views upon compliance under duress??
7. what are your views on a notice of understanding and intent and claim of right??
8. if registering is only for record keeping, then why is the definition of recording not one in the same??
9. what is the difference of real and personal?? and by that i mean the legal terms.
10. whats the difference between acting legally and lawfully??
11. is equality before the law paramount and mandatory??
12. have you ever heard of a fee schedule??
13. is a society not a group of people joined together in pursuit of a common goal??

ok i think im going a lil off the deep end, so i'll end with just one more.

14. why do you not need a drivers license # nor a ssn to obtain a pass port??

ps. im sure i'll think of more
and note, i mean no dishonor, i merely seek closure in my current understandings

reply to post by seeashrink


I remember when I worked for the stlpd...oh the abuse I witnessed by uniformed officers...I worked as a booking officer the cops were so corrupt I was appalled...only met a few out of 2000 that were decent....what a world

reply to post by seeashrink


sorry for spouting too much, but i wanted to mention one more thing before bailing on this interesting thread. many of the OPs suggestions are practical for the reasons he has already stated. but what about this issue of "officer discretion". Some police training programs require an entire course in this subject, and all SHOULD.

the issue of officer discretion is central to the suggestions in the OP: that if you keep cool while being fined for revenue...if you are polite...you may benefit from officer discretion. however, if you have a bad attitude, you might just end up in jail for no reason.

ok, here's the problem that bothers me about all this: no one should have to "dance" just to receive just and fair treatment. that is indeed, buttlicking. The concept that being nice is the way to survive officer discretion is in fact, contrary to the concept of just and fair treatment. if its a personality contest to get fair legal treatment from some cop's ego, the how are we protected by law? i would rather my fate be decided by law than personality. in fact, any officer who acts outside the bounds of law to favor ego should be fired. that was never what officer discretion was supposed to mean.

officer discretion DOES NOT actually refer to an officer chosing who he likes or adding punishment on mouthy motorists. officer discretion refers to chosing wisely, and yes, humanely. maybe your county has a "spitting" ordinance because in 1922 people would spit buckets full of chew in front of the saloon. officer discretion would suggest not to arrest, lets say, skateboarders for spitting once on the street in 2011, because thats not sane. with a true understanding of officer discretion, an officer such as the OP should NOT seek to arrest marijuana smokers, only dealers. why? officer discretion. its like the 1922 spitting law. in good practice, officer discretion should be solely based on reasonable law enforcement, not who strokes his ego. thats one key area where police training falls short.

Originally posted by LegalTender
a few questions for the various officers posting on this forum. and if your going to answer, please answer all.
1. why do cops always say " i found this on his/her person"
2. why when in court, they always have to ask not only "do you understand the terms", but also, they ask "do you agree". if there is no option, then why ask??
3. why is it that in the black's law dictionary. a person can in many occasions be a corporation??
4. if the law is indeed for the people. why make it so complicated that no average citizen can understand it??
5. why can a corporation be considered to be a natural person??, isn't a corporation a commercial fiction??N ya i know, that kinda go's together with # 3
6. what are your views upon compliance under duress??
7. what are your views on a notice of understanding and intent and claim of right??
8. if registering is only for record keeping, then why is the definition of recording not one in the same??
9. what is the difference of real and personal?? and by that i mean the legal terms.
10. whats the difference between acting legally and lawfully??
11. is equality before the law paramount and mandatory??
12. have you ever heard of a fee schedule??
13. is a society not a group of people joined together in pursuit of a common goal??

ok i think im going a lil off the deep end, so i'll end with just one more.

14. why do you not need a drivers license # nor a ssn to obtain a pass port??

ps. im sure i'll think of more
and note, i mean no dishonor, i merely seek closure in my current understandings

edit on 15-1-2011 by LegalTender because: (no reason given)

Dude,
Police Officers do not dispense legal advice. However, I will try to answer some of them:
1) Affirmative links- Meaning positive possession or control of something that is contraband or used in the commission of a crime, like a weapon.
2) I don't understand this one, but if my guess is that you are asking about a trial proceeding with the judge involving a plea agreement, you must understand that plea agreements are voluntary. If you do not agree then you go to trial. In order to accept a plea agreement you must either plead nolo contendo or guilty, thus agreeing with the facts of the State's case against you.
3) Anyone who can fill out the paperwork can become a corporation. It is a way to separate business earnings and assets from personal earnings and assets for civil liability, criminal liability, and tax purposes.
4) The law is complicated because lawyers write it. Statutes, Case Law, and Common Law. The rule of law is something one must study and protect. If court operated like a pure democracy we would all be screwed. In actuality most statutory law is easy to understand for laymen, although its very boring.
5) I have no idea what you are asking. However a corporation can be held liable for a criminal or civil action, just as a person may be. However since you can not jail a corporation they may be fined. A person can be prosecuted as well. If a company president is named as a criminal defendant, his company may be as well, but only he will face prison.
6) Compliance with lawful orders is generally required by statute. The famous charge is called "obstruction of justice" or "interference with official duties" usually. Duress to a degree is a given, as the mere presence of a police officer is considered a level of force. I think you meant "consent" under duress. Consent not given freely, intelligently, and voluntarily is invalid, meaning you MUST be free to leave in order to properly give consent. Most consent for searches of homes is generally written, with a form stating your rights. Generally, consent for vehicles is verbal. The common excuse criminal defendants give counsel for allowing a search is, "Well, I thought they would anyway if I said 'no'."
7) They are both imaginary unless you actually have the ability to back them. The deceleration of independence is a fairly good analogy. As far as judicial process they are meaningless. They don't hold water unless you are ready to fight a war. However, it is colorful when guys try to secede their houses from the US.
8) Registering something with the state is legally a formal contract of understanding for some privilege. You register your car, for example, to lawfully drive it on Uncle Sam's interstate system. Recording is merely the preservation of speech or other communications medium, either lawfully or unlawfully.
9) Real Property is a property interest in land. So and and whatever is on the land. Personal Property is tangible goods, possessions, securities, etc.
10) Each is a synonym for "within the law."
11) Yes. See the 14th Amendment.
12) Fee Schedules are defined limits for what someone is allowed to charge for services. Like a doctor may bill X amount to an insurance company for some procedure. The document that defines the X is the fee schedule.
13) Society is many things. I know law not philosophy.
14) You should probably call the State Department and ask them.

Hope I could help with out being to facetious.
Comm