Be Prepared for the Cognitive Infiltration of ATS in the Wake of Arizona Shootings

reply to post by tristar


LOL you think I am a Govt Disinfo Agent? LMFAO

Yeah like I went to college for 10 years, learned the ways of the force to do good, to defect to the Dark Side? Are you serious?

Lord Have Mercy....

ProtoplasmicTraveler

Your post is a great read, I am new here, and most definately not a g man. Your argument does make sense to me, and lets be on the look out for the brainwashing techniques you describe. Freedom is the right to believe in anything you want, wether the goverment like it or not. Goverment is not there to think for us, it there to defend our right to dislike and mistrust them. That is true freedom.
Anything else by any state is interfereing and controlling. We must never allow our goverments to do this.The Internet is the peoples library, goverment should keep out of it.

peace and freedom

Originally posted by trekwebmaster
reply to post by tristar

 

LOL you think I am a Govt Disinfo Agent? LMFAO

Oh, i know you're not gov, that was a mere 2.45secs to confirm( roflmao ), no real e-drama if you must know, but i was, lets say more than surprised to say the least. .

peace.

reply to post by trekwebmaster

Are you so "narrow-minded" to your topic that you close your mind to certain things which are very relevant to this subject? Keep on closing your eyes to things that you don't want to acknowledge, I don't need to read the book, I have studied this topic for years and have several degrees in it.

Don't let me stop you from posting those unreferrenced undisclosed relevant things in theory you claim you have to share!

The premise of the thread is based on simple avenues of discussion based on some fairly well documented and straight forward foundational blocks.

So far you have managed to avoid discussing those to focus in on 'me' (I am used to this, in a world often all about me) and it's hard to acknowledge vague notions and references to things not clearly and succinctly stated.

So please if you have something topical and relevant to share, please get on with it man, some of us do have lives and other things to do you know!

Or perhaps you'd like to see my credentials first before I post for approval? You would think a person would desire discourse from anyone on a topic which has relevant tie-ins? Consider the converse; if you specialize your thread to the point that no one has any idea of what you are trying to say and do not post anything?

I suggest a thread on the Altermative Universe and Dimension you are supposedly reading this thread in, because I seem to be seeing a lot of "Spot on" "Brilliant as usual Proto" comments here in mine.

There are a few posters who seem distracted from the actual premise of the thread, and a few others who seem keen on misportraying it, but hey I already I explained to those members what they were concerned, otherwised confused, or willfully misrepresenting.

You might want to focus less on describing what you imagine you are sharing by categorizing it with things like 'relevant tie-ins' and actually describe what you imagine is tying in so we can make the determination.

You'd think that any topic which relates directly would be welcome?

Honestly the only direct relation I am seeing in the majority of your posts is some of the same verbage that typified the alleged perpetrators posts. Lot's of abstracts, and therefore's and thus's where you seem to be having a different conversation than the rest of us.

I love studying human behavior though, so have it!

I guess not. But my advice for you is simple. Do not become so personally and emotionally attached to any or your work or art, because you will be critiqued and not everyone has all nice things to say about it.

You forgot to throw in a "Remember thou art mortal Proto" you still though have failed to directly address Cass Sunsteins works and policy initiatives, past actions of the government in similiar situations, and the premise of the thread.

Constructive criticism is the best teacher, but first, you'll have to learn how to not take things personally and accept other's viewpoints and opinions, otherwise, you'll end up being so emotional and then everyone will think you are a nutcase or just plain stupid.

Hey wouldn't that be something, everyone thinking I am a nutcase or just plain stupid. Well, I suppose I can dream, you have no idea the burdens and responsibilities associated with having the kind of stature and following I do on this site.

One's I frankly could live with out, the problem is here my friend, you haven't addressed the actual topic, in fact you have to a tedious and painful degree steadfastly avoided it.

Fact: Cass Sunstien is the Obama Information Czar.

Fact: He has written a book, and white papers on Cognitive Infiltration of the Internet specifically conspiracy sites and would like the Government to do just that.

Fact: After prior acts of violence against high ranking government officials new laws as a direct response to those crimes were enacted such as the Brady Act.

Fact: High ranking government officials were murdered and greviously injured in this incident.

Now all this other little personal nonsense you want to focus on, is really just personal nonsense you want to focus on.

Originally posted by rigel4
ProtoplasmicTraveler

Your post is a great read, I am new here, and most definately not a g man. Your argument does make sense to me, and lets be on the look out for the brainwashing techniques you describe. Freedom is the right to believe in anything you want, wether the goverment like it or not. Goverment is not there to think for us, it there to defend our right to dilike and mistrust them. That is true freedom.
Anything else by any state is interfereing and controlling. We must never allow our goverments to do this.The Internet is the peoples library, goverment should keep out of it.

peace and freedom

Welcome aboard and thanks for sharing. Please don't worry about having to proclaim your intentions. The great thing about ATS is that posts speak for themselves.

It's a very diverse, often highly intelligent, usually very critically minded, and often very eclectic group of people, who for the most part are open minded, passionate and articulate.

I think you will really enjoy posting and socializing here, teaching and learning, it's probably the best place on the Internet to do that.

I share your concerns about the freedom of the Internet, and it's importance. It's reassuring to see that even the newest members can ascertain the importance of this issue, and why it's something that the Internet Community at large and not just ATS might soon have to be dealing with.

Thanks for posting, welcome, and enjoy the site.

Great post Mr Proto, but in reality I believe that this site has had it's fair share of spooks perusing around, deflecting, denying and stirring up mayhem for quite a while now.

Yes it is a known fact that the PTB never like to let a good tragedy go to waste, because when people are emotional and confused they tend to go along with anything.

I have no proof, but it is my personal opinion that spooks have been living here for as many years as this site has been up and running. It has all but been proven that for example Israeli agents with the Megaphone society have been caught red handed posting propaganda.

And truly anyone with a brain can go into any random 9/11 thread and find the same old posters, posting the same old official story lies, offering little more than to try and ridicule and attack anyone and everyone who even questions the events of that day.

The spooks have been here, this is nothing new. Will they become more vocal now that the time to seize control is near? Maybe. But I find that the ones with a set agaenda are easily found out and easily spotted.

So my answer to this topic is yes, everyone knows that free information and free thought are the enemy of the tyrant oppressor, and as such they will do their own due dilligence to manipulate information and to keep a close ear to the ground. I suppose if I were responsible for the murder and the manipulation of millions of people, I may want to watch my back as well.

Cheers

Proto,

I am not going to mince words, the topic is right up my alley.

But, please, if you want to promote, go ahead, but the experience and expertise I wish to share is due to the fact I hold several degrees in the subject.

Baccalaureate Degree in Digital Film / Minor in Mass Communication.

How is this not relevant to this topic?

Another great source for this topic, it's like an early warning system, is:

Electronic Freedom Foundation: eff.org

Read their "Deep Links" blog and the site as a whole is very useful and informative.

I could care less what Obama's Internet / Information / White House stooge is doing. They are so far "out of the loop" as opposed to the general public is isn't funny. How can they come-up with tactics and direct policy on the internet without "having their boots on the ground and living in the trenches as we do?" They don't have a clue, or a good realization of it, to even think of making policy; they'd really screw-it-up, IMHO.

reply to post by trekwebmaster


Congradulations on your University Education.

However the topic of the thread really is Cognitive Infiltration of the Internet, and it really is based on some very simple premises.

Dismissing those out of hand, is a fairly easy enough venture that doesn't really require one post after another, accentuating negatives as positives, and making vague references to things that simply haven't been said or shared.

The opening piece is laid out on a progressive foundation designed to encourage topic along those foundational lines.

I have pointed out to you several times what they are.

Alernative theories are always welcome, but if all a person really has to say, is I don't believe this is real or could happen primarily simply because I don't want to believe this is real or is happening, well, just come out and say that.

It makes it easier on all of us.

I don't actually care if the poster I am conversing with is the director of the CIA or FBI, Baron David De Rothschild, or an unemployed dishwasher from Peoria, I really just care about having a topical, intelligent conversation, with people who have relevant things to share.

I am not dismissing critics, some of which had some valid concerns that hopefully were fully addressed to their satisfaction as they felt and stated something was being stated or suggested through the lines that wasn't.

Those minor points of contention have been addressed.

The Topic is a real and timely one, based on some valid premises, based on real things, both present and past, that have a high probability of being employed.

That is really what I envisioned the discussion is about.

I personally hope (as always) that I am wrong, that the government doesn't take such a route, that such things don't come to pass, and as always I am always willing to intelligently discuss the ideas and opinions that have a contrary view on the actual topic.

However if to do that you need to make the topic something that it isn't, insist that it is something that it isn't, well I am a pitt bull when it comes to keeping a thread on topic and on task.

So please, if you want to intelligently discuss any of the main points in the Opening Piece, take your time, reread it, it means precisely and only what it says, and then discuss specifically what you disagree with and why.

Otherwise have a great day!

I honestly don't know what to think of this man. He seems to be an "oxymoron between disciplines." Is the man a lawyer or freedom fighter? Sounds and reads like a giant "conflict of interest."

He also argued that the Internet may weaken democracy because it allows citizens to isolate themselves within groups that share their own views and experiences, and thus cut themselves off from any information that might challenge their beliefs, a phenomenon known as cyberbalkanization? What are they doing to do, sit alone and play "Farmville" on Facebook? Or merge together and form a "Tea Party?"

This man seems to have as many books and professor credentials to go around the moon and back, but I do know this much, if a professor doesn't keep-in-touch with the "grass-roots," he loses touch with the "real world." Then everything this man does is for naught. It's obsolete and rhetorical. How people are using the internet these days to "replace interpersonal relationships" with technology seems to me to be a worse problem.

Cold logical and mislead groups using internet devices to perform some delusional protest. Now we can't have this, it must be regulated. The more I read of this man, the more I think his agenda is paranoid. If this is how the "administration" views its constituents, then something is very wrong in this country. When did we stop conversing as civil human beings and jump-to "texting terrorists," is beyond me.

It is really simple. Bring back the "Fairness Doctrine," and elect representatives which know and remember "where they come from and who they represent," is a better policy. Mend fences and pound the pavement getting to know people you represent. Get out there in the ghettos and crack alleys of the country and really make a difference by seeing first-hand how it "really is," will be a good method to start with.

If you are not willing to "get your hands dirty" with the people of this country, they'll always feel as if there is a division and never ever really trust those in the positions of power which make laws. It's really this simple, and look, I didn't have to publish one book to illustrate this point.

Additional:

In hindsight, I realized how much angst we had trying to arrive on the same page, this is very indicative of what's going on in the country today. A bunch of infighting and nerves shot before we all realize we are wanting the same thing. Democracy is this, vigorous discussion to arrive at a mutually beneficial remedy and fairness in laws. To sanction this right or deny it in any way, short of yelling fire in a theatre, is not democracy; it's fascist and dictatorial, if not socialist.

During my attendance at the university studying film, one of my favorite and most insightful classes was one where we studied Russian filmmakers and its history. Can you imagine? But it has great relevance to everything of Democracy.

My professor said that "The only difference between Socialism and Democracy is Transparency." This is so true and if freedoms of speech, in all its forms is even sanctioned in the slightest, Democracy is perverted into Socialism. The Elites vs. Anyone Who Isn't Elite and it is doomed to failure.

We must be FOREVER vigilant to promote democracy and our fundamental freedoms as speech, thinking, and the right to travel to pursue any innocuous occupation without restrictions for any group or class. It's a very fine-line and the "watchful citizens" must watch forever, because it is when an eye blinks that we shall lose it.

When the first link of the chain is forged, the first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably.

As wisdom and warning, the first time any man’s freedom is trodden-on, we’re all damaged. You’d think we’ve come so far, torture of heretics, burning of witches, in all ancient history.

Then, if we even blink an eye, suddenly it threatens to start all-over again; spreading fear in the name of righteousness.

Jean-Luc Picard

reply to post by trekwebmaster


The truth is that Sunstein is a very bizarre but rather typical Obama White House Official.

He at times comes across as the quintesential liberal, while at other times, as a totaltatian Hegelian of epic proportions.

To give you an idea, one of his other more notable ideas, is granting Pets, that's right, dogs, and cats the right to sue their owners and testify in court by using Animal Behavioral Specialists to define what the animal is trying to convey under questioning.

Not even I can make up things like this!

So the man is a real enigma, a rather bizarre one.

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler


I support the ethical treatment of animals, because they are sentient beings and it is ethical and moral for humans to do this. Suing their owners? That is just not practical. Human Beings are higher on a level than animals. They can't speak, so Human Beings must be the stewards of their existence. How great of stewards we are.

Any sentient animal which can feel pain and has the awareness of themselves enough to feel fear when being rounded up for slaughter is a thinking, feeling, and sentient creature. We must realize this, but suing an owner? That is just a bit over-the-top. There is an order in our world, which was directed and commanded by God; thus giving Human Beings dominion over every other creature on Earth. How well or how horrible we handle this "dominion" by ethical treatment is the domain of man.

There are extremes to all contemporary moral problems as this, but the courts are for human beings and they are bogged-down too much as it is. It seems as if no one can think of any sensible approaches for problems these days, perhaps the reason is that they haven't been taught how, they lack the coping and skillsets to handle this. Education is the answer, not regulation. You don't need regulation so much if the population is rational and logic-driven. Passion and logic can go together; it's just in what order you apply them that fails.

reply to post by BlackOps719


Thanks for posting my friend and joining in. I know a number of members feel that the site has long been infiltrated by 'spooks and disinformation agents' and it very well might be.

I think one of the biggest concerns we all have is that posters who ever they might be, not make an inhospitable posting environment, and the 9-11 Forum is one of those where passions on the topic run real high, and sometimes overheat.

Presently we can only suspect maybe correctly or incorrectly if we feel based on posting patterns if someone might be more than agenda driven.

Yet what worries me is not what we presently deal with, but how things might change in the future.

I was born in 1964, and I am sorry this is not the same America I grew up with in the 1970's.

A lot of the liberties and freedoms we have lost and the additional powers that the Government and Corporations have picked up were ones that were freared by conspiracy theorists back in those day, many of whom looked at Orwell's 1984 decades before 1984 arrived as a harbinger of things to one day come.

A lot of their fears from back then have been exceeded, and it's happened slowly over a lengthy period of time, one little bit at a time, but let me tell you in my humble opinion that one little bit at a time in retrospect adds up to a whole lot over time.

So what concerns me is not really what we presently encounter, but where and what we might encounter in the future.

Using the TSA and the Patriot and Homeland Security Acts as an example, how they start out and what they morph into 10, 20 years down the line are two different things.

My concern, is what might happen if a law were passed that actually legally officialized government agents who's sole job and job description is to post, on internet sites, who end up being granted enforcement powers.

Slander of charachter is a big one, say the wrong thing about Kissinger or Rothschild that you can't prove, and you might be looking at a fine, being censored, even a felony over time.

Sunstein has talked a lot about the slander of charachter of public and private officials on the Internet on conspiracy oriented sites, as we theorize who goes to the Bilderberge Meetings and the CFR and the Grove, what they say and do and why, and what their agenda is.

At first they would just be here to say, "Henry Kissinger is a Nobel Prize Winner, former Secretary of State, Statesman, loving father, and devoted husband" blah, blah.

Two years later though that might become: "You have said some disturbing things about Henry Kissinger, please provide the proof to back them up or your post will be removed"

Three years from now that might become: "You have said some offensive things regarding Henry Kissinger and are being fined $300.00, failure to pay the fine may result in the dermination of your Internet Access priveleges".

Five years from now that might become: "You have been repeditively warned and fined not to slander Henry Kissinger without valid proof of your accusations, you are herby permanently banned from accessing the Internet and are sentenced to a year in jail".

Right now that seems unlikely, I grant you, but playing off of crisis like these, gradually expanding the pervue and scope of the powers, slowly as people will accept it based on circumstances is what I am really theorizing here.

If we see legislation pending to Officially infiltrate the Internet chances are the powers of those people will gradually expand.

That's the theory.

Thanks for posting my friend.

I suspect that those Cognitive Infiltrators are already here, albeit probably in smaller numbers than they will be. I say that cause I also suspect you are right Proto.

However ...

I also think that any new members joining ATS with Cognitive Infiltration in mind will be in for both a shock, and somewhat of a thankless task.

Shock because of the sheer diversity of poster and opinion on here ... derailing a thread with an 'official' viewpoint is quite difficult, when there are a million other opinions being touted. This is especially so when some of those opinions carry the weight of researched logic (much like many of your threads)

Thankless task because Conspiracy Theorists in general tend to view anyone touting an official government line with much suspicion... Not to mention those aforementioned well-researched, logical posters (like yourself) will tear their shallow arguments and viewpoints to shreds.

It might make for quite an entertaining read.

reply to post by trekwebmaster

I support the ethical treatment of animals, because they are sentient beings and it is ethical and moral for humans to do this. Suing their owners? That is just not practical. Human Beings are higher on a level than animals. They can't speak, so Human Beings must be the stewards of their existence. How great of stewards we are.

I support the ethical treatment of animals too. Some of my friends think I am crazy for getting up 5 times a night to feed the stray cat that I have been feeding for almost a year now when she meows at the door, but hey when you are hungry, you are hungry.

But what Sunstein envisions once again here, much like with his Cognitive Infiltration Initiatives are ways for the state to make more money from fines and penalties.

The money obviously would not go to the animal, the money would go to the state.

Many people fail to recognize that the government is primarily first and foremost a business enterprise constantly looking for ways to fund it's own aggressive expansion. It can only tax so much, so it's always looking for ways to fine through code violations.

You and others might imagine it is far fetched that Internet Agents one day in the future might be issuing us fines for unubstantiated statements that other wise impinge on or assail a public figures charachter, but this would be an outstanding additional source of revenue from the state, that sadly a lot of Americans who have suffered hostile people on the Internet, or feel that someone they know has some how been victimized by Internet posters, would support it.

One of the funniest things I have ever seen was a old film of when the first Cross Walk Sign was installed here in Miami Beach, as the Police tried to hand out J-Walking tickets to little old retirees from the North East, they turned around and told the Police to go screw themselves "What is this Nazi Germany we are telling people when and how they can cross the street now, no I won't give you my name, no I won't accept the ticket", yet the truth is today no one would bat an eye or lodge a protest if given a J-Walking Ticket, some cities make a sizable revenue off of J-Walking Tickets.

The idea of imposing fines on the Internet is a lot of what is at heart in Sunsteins proposals.

Just watch the "Gun" restrictions or anything related to it. When those rights are infringed, speech won't be far behind. Use this as a "litmus test," and "indicator."

Watchful waiting. Bear in mind, that the UK already has restrictions about what people can say regarding slander or libel. If a person has an opinion, they should be freely able to express it, and any opposition must be given the same accord, which hasn't been since the repeal of the "Fairness Doctrine," which gave every citizen the same media coverage without regard to how much money a person has. IMHO, the repeal of this doctrine was the first nail in our country's coffin, and there will be others.

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler


We already have a sort of internet agent: Our ISP - internet service provider.

When DMCA laws are revised, IF they are, you'll see your ISP being watchdog over everything you do. They are the ones who can monitor and sanction users.

Keep up with EFF.org, they are the foremost watchdog in protecting our rights.

Originally posted by Dagar
I suspect that those Cognitive Infiltrators are already here, albeit probably in smaller numbers than they will be. I say that cause I also suspect you are right Proto.

However ...

I also think that any new members joining ATS with Cognitive Infiltration in mind will be in for both a shock, and somewhat of a thankless task.

Shock because of the sheer diversity of poster and opinion on here ... derailing a thread with an 'official' viewpoint is quite difficult, when there are a million other opinions being touted. This is especially so when some of those opinions carry the weight of researched logic (much like many of your threads)

Thankless task because Conspiracy Theorists in general tend to view anyone touting an official government line with much suspicion... Not to mention those aforementioned well-researched, logical posters (like yourself) will tear their shallow arguments and viewpoints to shreds.

It might make for quite an entertaining read.

As always it's wonderful to see you posting my wise and brilliant friend.

I know a number of people share the feelings you are saying on all scores. Some posters presently are heaped with such derision for their posts you would think they have a fetish that makes them enjoy it.

But having said that, my big concern remains how an official act making official Internet Agents might morph and expand from there.

I guess time will tell.

Thanks my friend.

I would swear my computer locked about 6 times yesterday while my HD went crazy for a few minutes then it unlocked. Never happened before so here comes the conspiracy..... they are data-mining ats at a breakneck pace since the shooters identity has become more clear.
of course they've always been here, but now they are going deep deep deep.
Just my .02

Same as it ever was... Same as it ever was...
Same as it ever was... Same as it ever was...
Same as it ever was... Same as it ever was...
Same as it ever was... Same as it ever was...




You may ask yourself: well... how did I get here?