Why Sarah Palin is Guilty!

Originally posted by questcequecest
only in america does this sort of thing happen,you people are all brain washed.
like the bird threads why cant we just be efficent and put it all in the one thread. everyone wants to be the person to crack the story for their own little personal whatever, its just like david byrne says "same as it ever was"

www.youtube.com...

Ummm.... What? There is not violence, insane people or murders anywhere else in the world besides the United States? Wow... I must REALLY be brainwashed...

Give me a break... Violence happens every where in the world. If you are actually unaware of that...Well, you must truly live under a rock.

What happened was a tragedy. The psychotic act of a disturbed man.... It could have happened anywhere in the world. This time it happened in Arizona.

Now back to your idea that this thing only happens in the United States..... Tell that to the prisoners in other countries who were arrested for murder, alright?

Good day

Considering the level of narcissism, predation, & corruption in our government, and the level to which the political discourse has devolved in this country, how we might expect politicians to behave differently is beyond me. Dream on. On "both" sides, they will say & do ANYTHING to get into power. They will pander to ANYONE who will "contribute" to their election and their agenda. They don't care if the entire country disagrees and rejects that agenda (as true of Bush/ Cheney as it is for Obama & the progressives).
We need a reset- None of the above. Devotion to ANY ideology outside of the bounds of the Constitution should be a disqualifier for every executive, judge & legislator.

Crazy happens. If anyone is responsible for this unfortunate man, it is his parents, local law enforcement, administrators at the college he attended. They knew. He most certainly could have been hospitalized for observation- no one had the courage or was honest enough with themselves to do it.
Personally, I wonder if this was supposed to be "suicide by cop" that didn't quite work out the way he planned.
Every indication is that he was a liberal, if he was anything. Trying to square that with him idealizing Sarah Palin makes no sense. DKos, A.N.S.W.E.R., or PETA, maybe so.

Originally posted by arbitrarygeneraiist
reply to post by randomname

 

The problem isn't the speaker himself or herself, it's the people listening, coupled with the speaker's attempt to censor the other means of retrieving information, as would be the case with Hitler. With the internet and access to an absurd amount of information, one is able to browse different avenues of information and knowledge, and form a better bigger picture.

It's like being locked in a room with only one means of receiving information, which would be a man or woman touting propaganda. The person in that room only has one way of accessing reality, and it's through that speaker. The world is known to the person in the room only as the speaker says it.

Then on the other end, it's like a person having access to libraries, contrasting speakers, books, movies, documents of all sorts, and having a massive amount of information that the person can use to come to an informed conclusion about something or other.

So it's nothing short of a cop out to place blame on the person speaking. That's tantamount to censorship in a different form. It's the fault of the individual acting out on how they are interpreting what someone says, not the speaker.

some people have extraordinary gifts of rhetoric. they are somehow able to transfer energy through their voices and manipulate emotions. they can make you feel great and powerful, change the state of your mind until it becomes like a drug.

you can probably count on one hand the number of germans who didn't feel pride and powerful during hitlers reign before the war.

but i see your point, sarah palin isn't one of them.

reply to post by inforeal


It comforts me to know that should I ever have a mental breakdown in the future and do something stupid that ends up on the news, that there will be legions of ignorant, political hacks on the internet that will blame whatever I personally did on someone else. That is how ridiculous this whole argument is.

Right wing/left wing.....give it up. I can point to just as many idiotic things said about the right from political office holders on the left, but I don't presume to say it excuses the violence in the left's camp (which FAR EXCEEDS any killings done that the "internet" can attribute to "right wing hate speech", lol)

Ignorance is HUGE in America right now, and the OP is a glaring example of it.

David Berkowitz, the Son Of Sam serial killer, was loopy enough to go out in the streets of New York City to hunt for people whom he would then shoot to death. Yes, he was mentally unstable to begin with, but what tipped him over the edge?

"Howling dogs in the neighborhood kept Berkowitz from sleeping and in his deranged mind, he turned their howls into messages from demons that were ordering him to go kill women. He later said that in attempt to quiet the demons, he began to do what they asked. Jack and Nann Cassara owned the home and in time Berkowitz became convinced that the quiet couple was in truth, part of the demon conspiracy, with Jack being General Jack Cosmo, commander in chief of the dogs that tormented him."
(quote from this site)

Before this became known, could any of you who wish to see Sarah Palin share in the responsibility for Loughner's actions have discovered a logical cause/effect relationship between influences on Berkowitz & his subsequent actions? Hardly likely, right? How is this case any different? People like Berkowitz & Loughner simply do not think in the same way we do.

Charles Manson, during his trial, stated that he was only responding to the Beatles calling for a race war, finding his inspiration in song lyrics on their White Album, the song "Helter Skelter" in particular.
The Beatles were asked to appear voluntarily to testify, & I think it was Lennon who responded, "That's ridiculous, we won't be there". Guess what? They were not subpoenaed.

The behavior of most of us stems from a relatively sane, logical viewpoint; it does not necessarily follow that you can successfully determine the tipping point of a person who is mentally unstable, by applying logic to the situation. For all we know, Loughner got final confirmation of the correctness of his plan from an ad on the side of a passing bus.

reply to post by IgnoreTheFacts


I think narrow minded superficial analysis like yours is what brings down the intelligence level of this country to the country bumpkin level of a Sarah Palin type like yourself who cant think other than linear simplistic nonsense.

If you took the time to read the post and think about it— something you can’t seem to do— you might get something that eludes your small thinking capacity—understanding!

Originally posted by loam
reply to post by Stormdancer777

 

Moreover, the point made in this thread is ridiculous.

Whatever happened to personal responsibility and accountability? I think it's a crime in and of itself to provide the killer cover by suggesting "Sarah Palin made him do it."

You people scare me.

Dude, Those two things do not apply to mentally deranged people.

reply to post by inforeal

I think narrow minded superficial analysis like yours is what brings down the intelligence level of this country to the country bumpkin level of a Sarah Palin type like yourself who cant think other than linear simplistic nonsense.

I think this whole biggoted statement about people from the country, and insulting their intelligence , making broad sweeping judgements like that , brings down the intelligence of the country......

I love how you insult the intelligence of a particular group of people, and THEN say they can only think linear......

Do you even see the hypocrisy and logical fallacy in this statement?

Perhaps you should spend lest time attacking and more time listening..........

reply to post by AceWombat04


Your post is very thoughtful and covers all the possibilities and elements of the issue.

I commend you for digging underneath the surface what my post intended to do somewhat.

Indeed it has its level of complexity but my post deals with the element basically of Plain’s lack of responsibility and infantile selfishness. Looking at her past actions, such as resigning her governorship [ and how she justifies it] and her Obama cavorts with terrorist’s statements—she always does things and justifies them according to her own selfish aims . . . her crosshair hit list being the epitome of her selfish immature destructiveness.

Her torturing animals on her show—to entertain herself—dam the poor animal mentality that is often the essence of ethnocentric conservative tea party hysteria.

Indeed, the intelligence level of the animal selfishness of a child or animal is what she represents and the dense intellects of any mind that would defend such an anti-human mentality is what indeed brings America down to the level of the animal in the jungle who only cares about its next meal.

reply to post by NorEaster


Starred!

The simple fact is that partisan politics is too heavily imbedded in the current version of American politics. I cannot ascertain if the rightwing is ignorant, disiegenuous or blind because they denounce the right/left paradigm whilst attacking the left! They also seem to clearly use right wing arguments and them claim they are not rightwing.

Politics is a rough game where anything goes in terms of rhetoric. I am for letting Palin be. I don't like her political style but she is not to blame for the shooting.

Originally posted by Chevalerous


National Socialism was the antithesis of Marxist Socialism on the political spectrum in the 1930's Germany!

And in my opinion! you as a Jewish guy should be ashamed of yourself in front of the whole world for spewing this history revision about German & European history, regurgitating this insane far-right American propaganda that Hitler was an European Socialist!

Hitler: "Bring down the old system. Everybody should work. We are a collective. Get the Bankers/Jews out"

Marx: "Bring down the old system. Everybody should work. We are a collective. Get the Bankers/Jews out"

Whats the difference? None.

They all strive to bring down the old system. The only thing larger than their body count is the number of their apologists. Without knowing it you and most others around here are part of the cover up that will allow it to happen again and again.

Originally posted by Alxandro

But he didn't, he was just another left wing lunatic with a gun.

+ you - a right wing idiot with a keyboard =

Two idiots - one murdering idiot and one plain idiot

Originally posted by IgnoreTheFacts
reply to post by inforeal

 

Ignorance is HUGE in America right now, and the OP is a glaring example of it.

But it is not idiotic - to cite the past remarks and rhetoric that was stoked for the last two years.
It may be comfortable for you and others to ignore the campaign of veiled threats, but I recall
the entire thing quite well. Words start wars, provoke murders and all sorts of retribution...
It might have felt very good for the faux patriots to feign violent preemption, but this does not
mean such a route was responsible behavior on behalf of S.P or her wash squad.

reply to post by Janky Red


I find it pretty funny how just last summer ATS was overflowing with these same Palin nuts repeating that line about the tree of liberty needing to be watered with the blood of patriots and now they are falling over themselves in these lame attempts to try and pretend they never meant for anyone to take what they were saying as violent. Oh my how the patriots backtrack when times get real.

Originally posted by Sinnthia
reply to post by Janky Red

 

I find it pretty funny how just last summer ATS was overflowing with these same Palin nuts repeating that line about the tree of liberty needing to be watered with the blood of patriots and now they are falling over themselves in these lame attempts to try and pretend they never meant for anyone to take what they were saying as violent. Oh my how the patriots backtrack when times get real.

It's funtime with sociopathic amnesiacs!

A wide birth of benefit is always self bestowed isn't it?

I am dying to see them piss in their own lemonade and get distracted for just a split second

Originally posted by inforeal
No one for one minute believes that the assassin went out and shot those people for Sarah Plain’s causes.

That’s not the issue at all. The issue simply is her violent rhetoric can and may have connected with a man who is mentally unstable; and it can happen again.

It doesn’t matter whether this assassin was a left winger, right winger or apolitical, it is his mental state that is the question and famous people who use inflammatory rhetoric like Palin can affect all kinds of people and particularly the mentally deranged.

I’m happy she finally has the sense to take down that rhetoric about reloading and putting human beings she doesn’t agree with in crosshairs.

I don’t believe a logical sane follower of Palin would ever assassinate anyone.
But if one has the ear of millions of people as Palin does then she should have the sense to refrain from such rhetoric, but she obviously doesn’t.

Of course now she takes down the site that has those inflammatory words toward democrats. That alone is an admission that it was wrong and immoral to do in the first place.

She took down the site because she didnt want guns (something she supported) associated with this killing. She knew people like you would come around and do this. It was irony and thats all. I think the CIA was involved myself. To put gun control back to the front burner. They really want to take our guns from us so we cant fight back when they try to take over. This guy was probably hypnotized like Sirhan Sirhan and several other notorius killers who said the same. Killed for agenda, not even knowing (by admission) what the agenda was.Now I hate Sarah palin, simply because she's a feminist, but I dont think she did this. Although I would support locking her up for life just to make sure......one more feminist off the street, is a good thing ....right Martha Stewart?

Now to use their cor­re­la­tion, that maps kill peo­ple, then we can sim­i­larly hold the Democ­rats respon­si­ble for killing their own rep­re­sen­ta­tive because this map is from their own heartland strategy

www.dlc.org...

Originally posted by Phenomium
She took down the site because she didnt want guns (something she supported) associated with this killing.

Can you clarify? Didn't the killer using a gun associate guns with the killing? Are you confirming her map was gun related in nature?

Originally posted by bigkev
Now to use their cor­re­la­tion, that maps kill peo­ple, then we can sim­i­larly hold the Democ­rats respon­si­ble for killing their own rep­re­sen­ta­tive because this map is from their own heartland strategy

www.dlc.org...

I do not see anyone saying maps kill people. You all seem quite selective in your arguments. Sarah and Sharon said some very violent things up to and including calling for assassinating elected politicians. The map is just a direction for those violent words and you all know it. You all know that there was plenty of gun talk, violent overthrow talk, violent revolution talk, coming from the right. You were all so damn proud of it. Own it now. Do not try to pretend it was not there by cherry picking just a map to criticize.

As a foreigner, I am hesitant to comment on what is really a completely domestic situation, unlike 9/11 or the economy. American domestic political rhetoric is none of my business. American gun culture is also none of my business. To be frank, I actually wish Canada were more like Switzerland, with conscription and a government mandated assault rifle in every reservist's home, but . . . no amped up gun culture.

Sarah Palin obviously made a mistake and I'm sure she knows she made a mistake. Anyone with children knows that you have to be careful how you talk in front of them. They are liable to do very embarrassing things based upon what they think mommy and daddy are angry about. The same caution applies to politicians whose pronouncements or advertising style get wide exposure.

I think people should give Palin a break. She has been ,after all, on a fairly steep learning curve since being snatched out of Alaska by a desperate John McCain.

As a foreigner, the tragedy that happened in Arizona is something that I can really only commiserate with Americans about, but people around the world have to be asking themselves,

"Is Sarah Palin's learning curve something that Americans can really afford in these times?"