Pledge of Allegiance BANNED!

Originally posted by SaturnFX
reply to post by OldCorp

 

What happens when the arabic word for God becomes more popular...lets just change it again to say Allah instead of God

That should burn you conservatives up a bit...

Day Tuk err God!
=rabble rabble rabble=

To me, they might as well add "tooth fairy" or "santa". makes just as much sense.

I've never voted for a conservative so...that was a statement of ignorance you just expressed with that comment.
and like i previously posted, "God" is the creator of our world, because something doesn't come from nothing, so whatever entity "God" may be, it is, what it is. Is he some guy floating on a cloud with a white beard?? NO so don't be ridiculous, but then again who am I to say if thats true or not? I don't know anything for positive, and can admit to that, I just dont know whats out there, but there is SOMETHING. Even the big bang theory originated from something, it didn't just magically appear. Allah is arabic for the word "God" and isn't a separate entity. Still the "creator, in any language or culture since the beginning of man.

It's funny how people can spout new age hippy rhetoric, and be so egotistical, and say they know for sure whats out here, when humans have believed in some sort of God since the beginning, millions of years ago.

Originally posted by Condemned0625
I don't see the problem with banning the pledge. Who cares? I certainly don't. I don't have pride in this country because it doesn't matter to me. It doesn't benefit me at all to express pride in this country because I lied to myself every time I was commanded to participate. If people can't realize that asserting the biblical god in their pledge is a bare assertion fallacy due to the lack of evidence for his existence, then banning the entire pledge will fix the problem. Knowledge is more important than beliefs.

quote]Originally posted by Lilitu
reply to post by
===============================================================================
Mastermook


Perhaps it wouldn't get banned if it didn't contain divisive references to an imaginary spook in the sky. Restore the original and more citizens will be willing to recite it.

==============================================================================
Albert Einstein believed in a power greater then himself = "God"
It doesn't matter if you believe in science or not, because remember, What humans think they know now..is nothing compared to whats out there. We're ignorant in a universe thats been around A LOT longer then we have, so our scientific knowledge is probably that of a toddler compared to another more advanced civilization out there. So for you to say there is No God is contradictory, because you don't know if there is or not, and would have no way of knowing.

Ever heard of a little word called "Humility"?


And to compare Respect for your country = Nazi Germany? come on, that's really going out there on a limb. Far from it. I see people from various countries come here with more pride and respect for there 3rd world country then the U.S. Why is everyone moving here if it's so bad here?
Whats wrong with Americans having respect for their country as other countries do for theirs? Now all of a sudden it's a sin.

And lastly..as I've said a few times before in this thread. If people showed more respect for others and their country. THEN we probably wouldn't be in the crap we are in NOW. We would vote decent people into office, and stop the political and corporate B.S. thats running everything and everyone down. But a lot of people just seem NOT TO CARE, like so many people have said here. Sounds childish to me, because i know children that say that all the time, "I don't care". . thats just my opinion.

reply to post by rogerstigers

underestimating our youth is 2/3 of what has gotten us here. your comment is good til about grade 4 / age 8-10 ... after that, they have more understanding than most adults acknowledge or would even admit.

remember, we have been 'conditioned' to believe the "adults know best" ... even though history has proven over and over that isn't quite true. many great leaders, both good and bad were less than age 20.

if our children are our future (as i believe), then it is our duty as parents to instill a sense of patriotism (whatever your basis is), not the government. i agree with a previous poster that the 1942 version of the Pledge is more appropriate than what is recited today. After all, it is the wording i remember. also, i do recall, when the 'change' took place, many of us just took an extra long breath and continued with the remainder of the verse.

i really see no harm in the reciting by children. however, i do not encourage the current version because it does not instill the same reflections the previous did.
also, i don't necessarily view it as brain-washing, but more a vehicle that inspires creative conversation and this is always good for the learning process. Children in their early years often learn via mimic techniques anyway, so why not?

Taking a moment each day to honor or pay homage to those who have voluntarily given their lives so you may enjoy this educational opportunity is honorable and should be practiced by all.

for anyone to infer that children don't 'understand' sacrifice merely indicates that neither the speaker or child were ever taught.

Originally posted by Annee
Its still Propaganda and Brain Washing. A child should not pledge to anything.
I had to say it prior to "under God" - - - then we had lessons to say it with "under God".
Never did we learn where it came from - who wrote it - why - and what it meant. It was just recited Propaganda.

then you should be addressing the school board regarding the lack of education associated with it ... we did learn. who wrote it, when, why and how many times it had been re-written, argued before the courts and eventually litigated to the point of nonsense. guess that reflects upon the teaching staff or the curriculum.
as usual, the school is being blamed for what parents should have already done.

reply to post by thewholepicture

star for you, way to go for posting this !! we did learn, not just in school, not just from our parents, but in/to/from/with the media, just a few years ago .. and we should learn, again.

Originally posted by Nosred
American pride? You do realize that the Pledge of Allegiance was written by a socialist who was trying to help his friend sell flags to public schools right? Yeah, the Pledge of Allegiance was one of the first advertising jingles.

God bless America.

edit on 7-1-2011 by Nosred because: (no reason given)

really ??? proof please. we learned it just a bit differently 1/2 century ago.

I find it odd that there is a thread like this on ATS with people actually saying they prefer their kids be made to say the pledge. If children are being told to pledge allegiance to anything before they are being taught anything about what it is they pledge to, what is the point? Then we just have a tax funded moment of "simon says." People on ATS really want tax funded schools to take the time to make kids repeat lines of indoctrination before being education on history, current events, etc?

Originally posted by rogerstigers
Most of them do not truely understand what it means to pledge ones allegience to something.

I knew what it meant since I was a little boy in school. We said it every morning before class. This was in the 80's and 90's. Kids aren't as dumb as you think they are.

Originally posted by Honor93

really ??? proof please. we learned it just a bit differently 1/2 century ago.

en.wikipedia.org...

Already linked it on the first page, but sure. I'll post the link again, just for you.

Originally posted by thewholepicture
Please do not trample on my pledge of allegiance!

I don't believe it's YOUR Pledge of Allegiance.

The United States of America is about it's People and the freedoms that are rightfully ours.

Like the Freedom to say or NOT SAY the Pledge?

Divide and concur

I just want you to get this right next time. Concur means to agree. So you've said: Divide and agree. It's Divide and Conquer.

Originally posted by Honor93

Originally posted by Annee
Its still Propaganda and Brain Washing. A child should not pledge to anything.
I had to say it prior to "under God" - - - then we had lessons to say it with "under God".
Never did we learn where it came from - who wrote it - why - and what it meant. It was just recited Propaganda.

then you should be addressing the school board regarding the lack of education associated with it ... we did learn. who wrote it, when, why and how many times it had been re-written, argued before the courts and eventually litigated to the point of nonsense. guess that reflects upon the teaching staff or the curriculum.
as usual, the school is being blamed for what parents should have already done.

Just so you know - - I support public schools and teachers.

Most care IMO - - but have been burdened with rules and regulations beyond and unrelated to teaching.

Parenting IMO - tends to be somewhat cultural. In my area on the southern border - with a large Mexican immigrant population - - they believe their job is to take care of the home - - they do not think it is their job to teach or interfere with the teacher.

Originally posted by Honor93
then you should be addressing the school board regarding the lack of education associated with it ... we did learn. who wrote it, when, why and how many times it had been re-written, argued before the courts and eventually litigated to the point of nonsense. guess that reflects upon the teaching staff or the curriculum.
as usual, the school is being blamed for what parents should have already done.

I am curious if you were then tested on your understanding of these teaching before being ordered to recite it out loud. Surely they would not just give you all this info on the first day of kindergarten, then ask you to recite it right away assuming every 5 year old in the class paid attention, understood, or was intelligent enough to be there? When did they offer the test and if anyone failed, did they still have to recite the pledge or did they have to learn all over?

Originally posted by Sinnthia
I am curious if you were then tested on your understanding of these teaching before being ordered to recite it out loud. Surely they would not just give you all this info on the first day of kindergarten, then ask you to recite it right away assuming every 5 year old in the class paid attention, understood, or was intelligent enough to be there? When did they offer the test and if anyone failed, did they still have to recite the pledge or did they have to learn all over?

Yeah - I don't remember ever learning the truth about the Pledge.

If there was anything - - it wasn't until Jr High - - when we studied the Constitution etc.

That would mean I already had at least 6 years reciting propaganda as a naive and gullible child.

But, taking out the words "under God" upset some people, and only reading it five times a month, upset others. Then there was the group that liked the fact that students didn't say the pledge. The board voted against the compromise 3-2.

There's the problem. They're trying to appease people. When the point of a pledge is exactly what the word pledge means. To set you apart. Appeasement and pledge are not synonyms. They're antonyms.

I didn't say the pledge in school because I didn't want to. Didn't stand up either, or put my hand over my heart. I just felt it was indoctrinating.

But nowadays...

I think we should have intercom systems at work, and someone should read announcements and do a pledge of allegiance at the workplace.

reply to post by Condemned0625
Hurry up and move.

This nation was NOT founded "under God". Certainly not the Christian God which the Pledge and dollar bill refer to. "Under God" was added to the Pledge of Allegiance in 1954, and "One Nation Under God" added to US currency in 1955.

The founding fathers were not Christians. They did not ascribe to ANY major world religion.They were deists. Deism is kinda like a general religious idea that there is a supreme being who created the universe but does not intervene. The clockmaker builds the clock, grinding out interlocking gears and mechanisms and limits of movement, then winds up the clock and lets go, not to fiddle with the innards but to just sit back and watch it run. For the founding fathers and other deists, the clockmaker allusion is probably the closest to their beliefs. They are explicitly not part of any organized religion.

That "under God" and "One Nation Under God" were made required in the Pledge and on currency is an insult to the original intent of our nation's creators.

edit: Oh yeah, I think the pledge of allegiance is fine and I don't mind it being pledged in schools. Our country is based on great intent, loving and wise intent, only to be exploited by power and money grubbing bastards. I have huge pride in the American country (the actual land), the people here, and the idea of America as it was originally. If the pledge of allegiance is going to be said in school, however, "under God" should be removed as it excludes certain peoples based on their ideology - which kinda undermines the whole freaking point of the USA! Also, kids should be taught as young as possible the meaning of the pledge, and that it doesn't mean pledging your life to whatever BS your leader spews, it means pledging allegiance to the idea of FREEDOM!

Originally posted by eNumbra

Originally posted by Honor93

really ??? proof please. we learned it just a bit differently 1/2 century ago.

en.wikipedia.org...

Already linked it on the first page, but sure. I'll post the link again, just for you.

yeah ok, but i don't exactly consider Wiki a resource ... after all, i did ask for 'proof' please ... Wiki is hardly proof.
I could say or (print in Wiki) that i am one of the original cosmonauts sent to build the mining sector on the moon ... doesn't make it so.

As for a real source, try this: www.oldtimeislands.org... or www.ushistory.org... or even www.amazon.com... ... all of which provide vital info that Wiki omits.

yes, the claimed author (still disputed today) was a socialist when he wrote it (does that really matter? we've had several POTUS who were same) ... you claim much more than that though and this is where i desire 'proof' (of which you have yet to provide). Wiki doesn't count. Show me any proven record of such a claim. i call BS unless you mention the Schoolhouse Flag Movement ... if not, learn something today ... like the Masonic influences that enabled the writing of the pledge.

Originally posted by Honor93
I could say or (print in Wiki) that i am one of the original cosmonauts sent to build the mining sector on the moon ... doesn't make it so..

You do realize that wiki articles have citations right? And you are smart enough to track those citations and check that they are in fact legit? Rather than just say

"Pfft, wiki?"

Nice cop-out. Wiki's got the truth here. Deal with it.

Originally posted by Annee

Originally posted by Honor93

Originally posted by Annee
Its still Propaganda and Brain Washing. A child should not pledge to anything.
I had to say it prior to "under God" - - - then we had lessons to say it with "under God".
Never did we learn where it came from - who wrote it - why - and what it meant. It was just recited Propaganda.

then you should be addressing the school board regarding the lack of education associated with it ... we did learn. who wrote it, when, why and how many times it had been re-written, argued before the courts and eventually litigated to the point of nonsense. guess that reflects upon the teaching staff or the curriculum.
as usual, the school is being blamed for what parents should have already done.

Just so you know - - I support public schools and teachers.

Most care IMO - - but have been burdened with rules and regulations beyond and unrelated to teaching.

Parenting IMO - tends to be somewhat cultural. In my area on the southern border - with a large Mexican immigrant population - - - -

no offense intended with this response ... but, you state "they believe their job is to take care of the home" -- well, if that is true, why then are they in America? ... we tend to care for one another in all aspects of living.

also ... you state "they do not think it is their job to teach or interfere with the teacher." -- therein lies the problem ... when parents believe it is someELSEs job to teach, our children are doomed.

reply to post by eNumbra

you want to believe "wiki has the truth here" ... that is your prerogative. I prefer historical references not layman additions based on supposition and clearly lacking vital facts. you source whom you choose, i just suggested you make the effort to learn something ... silly me.