Falling birds likely died from massive trauma

reply to post by buddhasystem


Love this explanation.

It wasn't the fall, it was contact with the ground made at high velocities.



Somebody should use this "description" to re-define suicide and allow insurance payouts.

Originally posted by buddhasystem
a) an object ascending upward with supersonic velocity and thus producing a shock wave that killed the birds. Because it was traveling up, the "sonic boom" was not heard on the ground.

b) a very large object (think UFO) cruising at subsonic velocity and causing blunt trauma to birds on impact

Interesting theories, buddhasystem.

a-I'm not sure if a supersonic shockwave can cause death in birds.

b-if the flying object was traveling at subsonic speeds it would have to startle the birds by crashing into the rear of them as I suspect any other approach the birds would have tended to try to avoid the collision, though poor weather and visibility might have been a problem.

Of all the possible explanations I've heard, hail seems like the most likely to me, I've seen hailstorm video that I have no doubt would cause massive birdkills if a flock of birds was flying though it. If the hailstones are big enough to destroy a car, they are big enough to kill birds, is my theory.

Here's a video of a car being destroyed by hail:


And weather was apparently a possible factor:

What is going on? Update: Arkansas Birds Died From Blunt Force Trauma?

Violent weather rumbled over much of the state Friday, including a tornado that killed three people in Cincinnati, Ark. Lightning could have killed the birds directly or startled them to the point that they became confused. Hail also has been known to knock birds from the sky.

The director of Cornell University's ornithology lab in Ithaca, N.Y., said the most likely suspect is violent weather....

I have to go with hailstones, until more data comes in that defines a more probable cause than that.

I'm not possative about this but I am pretty sure I have heard about tornados that were going on in arkansa around the same time?? could it be that tornados are hitting the birds & fish?? I have heard of them causeing that sort of thing before and even causeing it to "rain" dead things like fish and such?

If it is the case it is still odd as it seems like a weird time of year for tornados.

anyways just a thought *shrugs8

Originally posted by buddhasystem


Now, there are plenty of threads on this topic but this news bit is interesting because it does shed light on the cause of death. Notice that these "fallouts" started happening in the past few years. It looks as if a flock of birds hit something massive all at the same time.

I have two theories to explain this, both of which are quite bizarre, then again the event itself is bizarre. So here we go:

a) an object ascending upward with supersonic velocity and thus producing a shock wave that killed the birds. Because it was traveling up, the "sonic boom" was not heard on the ground.

b) a very large object (think UFO) cruising at subsonic velocity and causing blunt trauma to birds on impact

www.cnn.com
(visit the link for the full news article)

So you wouldn't entertain the idea that a large firework detonated in or close to the airborne flock of birds causing the injuries as a explosive waves would do especially to small fragile birds.

reply to post by buddhasystem


a) an object ascending upward with supersonic velocity and thus producing a shock wave that killed the birds. Because it was traveling up, the "sonic boom" was not heard on the ground.

HAARP or LHC type effect altering frequency perhaps? On the other hand i would put it down to the solar activity that has the scientists worried. The suns activity will soon rewrite what they thought.
I would say all that you mentioned are possible.
As for hitting a ufo??
I would say thats not totally ruled out either.

Originally posted by jazz10
HAARP or LHC type effect altering frequency perhaps?

Frequency of what? And why you put LHC and HAARP in one sentence?

Originally posted by tarifa37
So you wouldn't entertain the idea that a large firework detonated in or close to the airborne flock of birds causing the injuries as a explosive waves would do especially to small fragile birds.

It would be more likely had it happened New Years Eve when fireworks were being detonated, and even then I'd expect perhaps a few dozen birds to be killed but not 5000.

But 5000 birds, I'd say that's far too many to be killed by a detonation of a fireworks rocket. They can only flock so close together and the explosive force obeys the inverse square law so it rapidly gets weaker further from the source.

Buddhasystem's supersonic theory, if such a shock wave is capable of killing birds (is it?) would cover a sufficiently large volume of space to affect a larger number of birds because the source is moving.

But I still have to go with hail as the most likely cause based on what little I've read about it so far.

Until we have an explanation though, it's fair to consider all these possibilities, but some seem much more likely than others.

Originally posted by buddhasystem

Originally posted by butcherguy
Has anyone seen this theory mentioned on the other theory. High powered radar units.

Well that's called microwave cooking, and would have left traces that experts would detect. That would also touch ALL organs, not just breast.

You don't have to cook a bird to have it fall from the sky. Just screw its nervous system up enough that it can't fly, or control the beating of its tiny heart. Then hitting the ground after falling several hundred or a thousand feet might just be enough to cause trauma to the breast.

Plus, I can show evidence of radar sets, same can't be said for UFO's.

Originally posted by butcherguy
You don't have to cook a bird to have it fall from the sky. Just screw its nervous system up enough that it can't fly, or control the beating of its tiny heart. ...

Plus, I can show evidence of radar sets, same can't be said for UFO's.

What about evidence that radar can affect a heartbeat, have you got that?

reply to post by Arbitrageur
I probably wouldn't do to well posting an ex-parakeet in a microwave.

Please allow me some time to look for something substantial to back up my claims, I shall return.

Originally posted by buddhasystem

Originally posted by Resurrectio
I think that a crack opened up and a methane/some other deadly gas escaped and killed the fish and then the birds.

Not bad! But the volume of that bubble of gas would have been really humongous, and I don't find it likely because

a) it would have to be released in an explosive event, which was not the case
b) all species would be affected, including humans, which is also not the case

Massive Trauma? Well Doh! Falling from the sky does tend to do that sort of thing.

Love it! You come up with some outlandish ideas, tearing up the concept of Occum's Razor and shoot down more reasonable explanations.

Not all massive methane releases trigger an explosive (combustible) event or indeed are the result of one. CO2 could also be the culprit.

Also from the reports I'm seeing the organs may have been liquified, and not the breast. If this is the case it is not inconsistent with microwaves. The higher water content of most of the organs would result in quicker microwaving and liquification. Additionally a bird in the sky will microwave and liquify much more readily than a human, let alone humans on the ground with the entire planet behind them, or humans in houses, buildings, cars, beds etc.

So, i'd be willing to bet that any human who happened to be flying with the birds might have had quite a harsh headache before the massive trauma of a crash landing miraculously cured it.

Who knows it could just be (although I don't believe it is) as simple and boring as a microburst. If they can bring down planes they can certainly bring down birds

Bottom line, I'm going with magnetic anomaly possibly deliberate until more facts come in. I'll happily change my opinion at that time if necessary. That is something that is so often missing on this site. When the facts change so should the opinions.

Originally posted by Arbitrageur

Originally posted by butcherguy
You don't have to cook a bird to have it fall from the sky. Just screw its nervous system up enough that it can't fly, or control the beating of its tiny heart. ...

Plus, I can show evidence of radar sets, same can't be said for UFO's.

What about evidence that radar can affect a heartbeat, have you got that?

Here is something for starters: Biological effects that result from heating of tissue by RF energy are often referred to as "thermal" effects. It has been known for many years that exposure to very high levels of RF radiation can be harmful due to the ability of RF energy to rapidly heat biological tissue. This is the principle by which microwave ovens cook food. Tissue damage in humans could occur during exposure to high RF levels because of the body's inability to cope with or dissipate the excessive heat that could be generated. Two areas of the body, the eyes and the testes, are particularly vulnerable to RF heating because of the relative lack of available blood flow to dissipate the excessive heat load. At relatively low levels of exposure to RF radiation, that is, levels lower than those that would produce significant heating, the evidence for harmful biological effects is ambiguous and unproven. Such effects have sometimes been referred to as "nonthermal" effects. It is generally agreed that further research is needed to determine the effects and their possible relevance, if any, to human health.

Yes, we are speaking of thermal effects, but a body does not have to be 'cooked' before it stops functioning.

Dangers from RF

* Skin burns, organ damage, and electrical shock caused by overexposure to radio and RADAR radiation. * Falls from elevation caused by rotating/moving equipment.

I believe electrical shock can affect heartbeats.

OSHA

Please excuse me for totally screwing up the formatting of my last post.

I really loused it up, the info is there, just hard to read.

reply to post by buddhasystem


Read through this and several other threads on the bird kill but haven't seen much discussion or mention (that I saw) of the Pine Bluff Arsenal located just 60 miles from the first bird kill zone and close enough to the fish kill zone also if they are related.

If indeed this event is a chemical or biological leak - we will be misdirected and never be told the truth.

Phosgene would possibly be a possible agent often being described as an agent that causes the lungs and heart to "explode" with massive internal bleeding.

Pine Bluff Arsenal (PBA) was one of nine Army installations in the United States that stored chemical weapons. The arsenal's chemical weapons stockiple consisted of various munitions and ton containers, containing GB or VX nerve agents or HD blister agent. The chemical weapons originally stored at the arsenal consist of various munitions and ton containers, containing GB or VX nerve agents or mustard blister agent. The Army designed the Pine Bluff Chemical Agent Disposal Facility (PBCDF) to destroy this chemical weapons stockpile, comprising approximately 12 percent of the nation’s original chemical weapons, in November 2010. This marked the end of nearly seven decades of chemical weapons storage at the Arsenal. The facility and storage area are undergoing closure operations in accordance with strict internal policies and procedures and federal laws and regulations.

PBCDF started disposal operations by destroying M55 GB rockets and later GB containers, with the last GB rocket being processed in May 2007. This marked the end of all GB munitions at PBA. The facility began processing M55 VX rockets in October 2007, with the last VX rocket being destroyed in February 2008, marking the destruction of all stockpile chemical agent-filled rockets at PBA. They began their final campaign, destruction of mustard agent-filled ton containers in December 2008.

The facility used high-temperature incineration technology, a technology employed by the Army for more than a decade, safely and successfully disposing of more than 80 percent of the nation's original chemical weapons, including the 12 percent stored at PBA.

Additional facilities and systems treat and dispose of chemical warfare materiel not associated with the stockpile, managed by the U.S. Army Chemical Materials Agency’s (CMA) Non-Stockpile Chemical Materiel Project (NSMCP). The Pine Bluff Explosive Destruction System (PBEDS) a transportable treatment technology used to process recovered chemical warfare materiel, began operations in June 2006 to destroy recovered chemical warfare materiel items stored at PBA. It successfully completed operations in April 2010. Another ongoing NSCMP project includes the Ton Container (TC) Decontamination Facility, which decontaminates TCs stored at the arsenal, allowing the steel containers to be recycled.

(snip)

The safety of workers, the public and the environment are paramount to the success of the chemical weapons disposal mission. CMA and the Army arsenal oversee the secure storage of chemical munitions to ensure that they are safe.

Once munitions are slated for disposal, they are transported, treated and disposed of following strict internal processes and regulatory requirements. The CMA is committed to creating a safer tomorrow by permanently eliminating the threat of aging chemical weapons to our communities and our nation. This mission has been accomplished at the PBA.

Public Participation and Community Relations

The Arkansas Citizens' Advisory Commission, whose members include area residents appointed by the governor, is a focal point for public participation in the Army's weapons storage and disposal program in Pine Bluff.

The Chemical Stockpile Emergency Preparedness Program works closely with your community and state emergency professionals to develop emergency plans and provide chemical accident response equipment and warning systems.

To learn more about the Army’s chemical weapons disposal mission visit the Pine Bluff Outreach Office for Chemical Disposal.

Though this facility was supposedly 'mothballed' in the 1990's - perhaps - it's been brought back to life or some old misplaced storage that escaped destruction has leaked.

With the signing of the new Start Treaty on 12/18/10 and the monies to be released to development I wonder what the position change at Ft Smith is or what tasks they have been involved. If you look at a report of a triangle object on 12/16/10 from Centerton,Ar they reported an object making a southeast turn over the city. If you look at the Ft Smith airport its North-South runway is in direct line for an takeoff. Also their East-West runway is in direct line with Ozark,AR. Hmmm. We know that in recent years there have been reports of Stealth fighters and Pulse weapons testing. So if such a flight at low level took off on the North-South runway, made a southeast turn which would line up with Ozark,AR. Continue south directly to Labbre,LA before turing North-west on Ft Polk back on into Leesville or return to Ft Smith. It might be a typical test flight pattern. Something scared those birds into low level flight at night but not at the altitudes where high level hail or lighting might occur. However they would fly high enough to intercept a low level pass of a test flight. Anyone watching flight patterns at Ft Smith lately?

Originally posted by butcherguy
You don't have to cook a bird to have it fall from the sky. Just screw its nervous system up enough that it can't fly, or control the beating of its tiny heart. Then hitting the ground after falling several hundred or a thousand feet might just be enough to cause trauma to the breast.

That's well put, though I'm not entirely convinced -- something light and feathery would have a very different terminal velocity as compared to a solid body (like a human). Plus it's suspicious that the trauma happened in the breast -- all 5,000 birds falling straight down as one?

Originally posted by buddhasystem
That's well put, though I'm not entirely convinced -- something light and feathery would have a very different terminal velocity as compared to a solid body (like a human).

I'm not sure either, but the terminal velocity of a bird can vary greatly depending on how the bird is postured. Hitting a hard street might kill a bird but hitting soft ground might not.

This also reminds me of my last house which had a "sunroom" with three of the 4 walls made of glass, sticking off the back of the house. A couple of birds a year died trying to fly through that glass and I was there when it happened one time and the bird didn't seem to be flying all that fast (I would guess maybe not even as fast as the terminal velocity of an unconscious bird) but the trauma of hitting the glass was enough to kill it. Another time it stunned the bird out for a few minutes but it eventually flew away, probably with a real bad headache and perhaps with some trauma to the chest also.

reply to post by butcherguy
saying you can cook a live animal to death inside a microwave oven does little to demonstrate what radar exposure a flock of birds might receive and how it might affect them.

I did run across something interesting in a 1980 paper that USSR exposure limits were 1000 times lower than US levels:
aje.oxfordjournals.org... (PDF)

protective guides or standards in the US and some western European countries, where the recommended maximum permissible power density for occupational exposure is generally 10 mW/cm^2...

The official occupational standard in the USSR is set at 10 uW/cm^2 (0.01 mW/cm2) for full time work, a standard that is in most situations about 1000 times lower than the usual recommended level in the US....

There have been enough accidental exposures at estimated levels exceeding 100 mW/cm2 (9) to indicate
that there are occupations in which some men at some times on certain classes of ships have been exposed well in excess of the 10 mW/cm2 limit. Shipboard monitoring programs in the Navy since 1957 seem adequate to show that, in contrast, men in other occupations rarely, if ever, are exposed to doses in excess of 10
mW/cm2 (11). Radiomen and radar operators, whose duties keep them far from radar pulse generators and antennae, are exposed to levels well below 1 mW/cm^2

The only effect I found in that study from radar (Microwave) exposure was the development of cataracts. But even working on the deck of a ship, close to a radar source, the exposure level is well below 1 mW/cm^2. Presumably a flock of birds falling a distance from a radar facility would have an exposure level lower than this?

So while electric shock can kill a person, it's not hazardous to handle a watch battery due to the low exposure received. Similarly, while putting a bird in a microwave oven can cook it, tiny exposure to radar birds receive at a distance seem no more likely to cook them, than handling a watch battery is likely to electrocute you.

This would be an interesting study that might shed some light on what actual power levels have biological effects, but all I can find is the abstract:

Effects of Exposure to Pulsed Microwaves (RADAR) on Central Nervous System Excitability in Laboratory Animals

Abstract: A microwave bioeffects project was designed to develop reliable exposure methods and dose estimation procedures for use with laboratory animals to investigate potential effects on central nervous system (CNS) excitability.

My guess is the exposure levels producing biological effects in that 1974 paper will be far above those safety limits established by the Navy which were cited in the 1980 paper.

Originally posted by butcherguy
Please excuse me for totally screwing up the formatting of my last post.

I really loused it up, the info is there, just hard to read.

YOu have something like 2 hours to edit it. Usually if I screw up a post format (which is easy to do when trimming quotes, etc) I just edit the original post instead of making another post apologizing for it?

reply to post by buddhasystem


i mentioned in another post, perhaps it coiuld be discussed here, that the 'trauma' was likley the cause from them hitting the ground!

but what would have caused them to die in the air/fall? well let's look at the other symtoms....

Originally posted by Arbitrageur

Originally posted by buddhasystem
That's well put, though I'm not entirely convinced -- something light and feathery would have a very different terminal velocity as compared to a solid body (like a human).

I'm not sure either, but the terminal velocity of a bird can vary greatly depending on how the bird is postured. Hitting a hard street might kill a bird but hitting soft ground might not.

And that's one of the strange things about the incident -- you don't have a lot of crippled birds trying to move about and take to the air again. To me, that sounds like an indication that the birds were suddenly killed en masse and fell down, with some survivors continuing the flight. They did find one surviving bird on the ground. But that's just an amazingly small number!