There will be no Disclosure

Originally posted by zorgon
There will be no Disclosure

So here are the questions...

1) Which insider, whistle blower or 'ufologist' do YOU believe is telling the truth.

2) is that person telling you all truth, or has a good story mixed with added 'stuff' to make them look good

3) WHY do you believe his story over someone else?

4) Short of an Alien spacecraft landing in Times Square or other such place, what would it take for you to be convinced that someone is telling the truth?

Maybe we could collect a list of names with a yay/nay option and tally those and see who has the most credibility

Answer

1)Stanton Friedman

2) I think Stanton Friedman is honest and not easily swayed by hype

3)Stanton's work on the roswell case and the MJ-12 documents has been meticulous. I think he lends credibility to the field of Ufology.

4)No craft needed, I've seen enough evidence that I am a believer.

Well IF Reagan could remember I bet he was privy to a lot of material
also "kelly" Johnson would of been a good whistle-blower
I could not agree more on "BUZZ" SO many fingers in SO many pies
& a mason to boot.
Travis Walton's story stood out as just dam scary, maybe a true abduction?

Of course DISCLOSURE is never going to happen the way most think it will,but
i think if your perceptive enough you may be able to spot the subtle hint's that it's already
begun, were being drip fed information (as well as disinformation) so you just have to be able
spot the clue's and do the research.

It is a tuff question you pose there zorgon, If I knew even a tenth of what you know i think my
head would just explode like in "scanners". But so worth it! Talk about a lifetimes work i hope you
have all your stuff double backed up!

On a side note your so rite about the humble janitor or chief,I can back this up from a bloke who
used to work here en.wikipedia.org... Not quite NASA but.. he was
just a lowly painter who had access all areas and the things he told me they were developing were
very eye opening & the guy had no interest in any tech or knew i'm a UFO/technology etc enthusiast!

There very big on cutting edge composites, he mentioned among other things the latest heads
up display fighter pilots helmet he had seen and been told the cost was around £35000? maybe
Add a 1?cant remember but it was a lot. Lockheed was also a word he spat out.
Well i don't know who else he told or what but he was soon dismissed!

I really was not surprised when I heard.What a fool.
I did say "you really don't want to be discussing all this"

Back on track, yes maybe a list of people who may be a part of the picture and see who get's
put into there order of believability,Background & stance would be a good start.

I find it far easy'r to spot the scammers and the charlatans out for a "quick buck" and there
moment in the spot light.so I think?
Take Dan Burish for instance i just don't know any more! I used to ridicule the man but you
have me thinking now as you give him some mention and I trust what you say so he is on
the "you never no?!" pile for the time being.

So here are the questions...

1) Which insider, whistle blower or 'ufologist' do YOU believe is telling the truth.

2) is that person telling you all truth, or has a good story mixed with added 'stuff' to make them look good

3) WHY do you believe his story over someone else?

4) Short of an Alien spacecraft landing in Times Square or other such place, what would it take for you to be convinced that someone is telling the truth?

Maybe we could collect a list of names with a yay/nay option and tally those and see who has the most credibility

Disclosure already happened in some places. Still, some of us were still arguing that. Not because some of us seek disclosure, but to give more people the chance to be able to know the truth.

1) Uyrangê Hollanda Lima. Brazil.
- OPERATION SAUCER - Colonel Hollanda (Actual Report) (25m 42s) (352x240)
This is NOT a "TV Version" or a "Simulation".

Video

2) All truth for sure.

3)

A brazilian Colonel reports everything about the "Operation Saucer" (or Operation Plate) that took place in the Amazon Area in 1977. The DISCLOSURE happened in 1997. Some few weeks later Cel. Hollanda was found HANGED at his own bed. It's said it was a suicide but the doubts will ever remain.

ATT: Listen and watch carefully the words and face expressions of Cel. Hollanda between 09:38 and 10:30 (here at this video). Well... knowing him as I knew (I can't say we were "Friends"; no) I dare saying that "THERE'S SOMETHING THERE". See his "sarcastic" smile and face expression when he tells about HOW MANY FILMS they had, to whom they belonged, how etc...
CAN THERE EXIST A HIDDEN ("lost") FILM ?
CAN THERE EXIST SOME HIDDEN PHOTOS ?
Many Agents that were there are still alive...
They were all IMPLANTED (even Cel. Hollanda)

Everything he tried was to tell the truth. All he found was death. Was not seeking money, not seeking to appear.

If you dont believe in his words, I have all the OFFICIAL files released by Brazilian military force.

4) Im convinced already. Too much evidences. I saw UFO 3 times in my life. And I believe in my eyes.

Great Threat Zorgon. S/F.

Originally posted by zorgon
There will be no Disclosure

So here are the questions...

1) Which insider, whistle blower or 'ufologist' do YOU believe is telling the truth.

2) is that person telling you all truth, or has a good story mixed with added 'stuff' to make them look good

3) WHY do you believe his story over someone else?

4) Short of an Alien spacecraft landing in Times Square or other such place, what would it take for you to be convinced that someone is telling the truth?

1. My good friend Dr. David Jacobs.
2. Dr. Jacobs genuinely wants to help his patients understand the phenomenon.
3. Reading his books are like going home. I know what that room feels like. Now i understand i'm not alone.
4. Just have to look in their eyes.

...

Originally posted by HazyChestNutz
There will be a disclosure. Period. Maybe not today, but before 2012. They will make us think that these "aliens" are evil so therefore they are preparing us for fake alien invasion. Hence, the movies, skyline, Transformers 3, Cowboys vs Aliens, Battle of LA and many more that are coming out this year alone.

Or maybe it could just be human nature? You don't have mention extra-terrestrials in order to reach the same conclusions.

For instance, the chinese who are so un-american are evil and trying to take over America, in particular all the communists.

Fear mongering and xenophobia are hardly unique to the Alien issue.

For me it was from seeing them in the sky. I have never found an answer as to what actually happened, but I do recall when I was 5 yrs old a woman woke me and spoke to me for quite some time. I recall being shocked that I could not see her, but I could feel her as she sat me in her lap and put her arms around my waist. Alien or angel? I don't know. My ex husband hase seen them 4 times and at one point while we were married he had a time lapse of 2.5 hours ( I didn't know until after we were divorced that he had even lost time because he worked away from home most of our marriage). My ex employee confided a story about seeing a UFO land in his parents farm land in Gautemala at the age of 9. My daughter has seen them and once saw a reptillian male as he dropped her on the floor in our hallway. A good friend of mine worked for the CIA for years and confided in me about an experience in the white house pertaining to reptillians. He was also visited by an angel when he was 9. My family is highly intuitive and have a great number of natural gifts so it never felt too far fetched when I began to hear of thier existence in the early 80's. I read all Whitley Strieber's books hoping that somewhere in them he would tell about, not only the manevolent aliens but the benevelont ones as well. Of course he never did. I have friends who work with angels for healing in Dallas, Tx. To be honest, most the people who have come into my life have been unique and thought outside of the box. My sister is a natural medium and I recall her first face to face encounter with a disembodied spirit. I know two people that I trust completely speak to me about the ferries who have communicated with them. I also met and befriended a woman years ago that met the Laws of the Universe. She had a great job, home and life the experience completely shook her to the core. She thought she had lost her mind. She had lived her life ignorant of anything and was in the mindset of your typical Christian that hasn't gone to church since she was a young girl. Needless to say her life has completely changed since that time. She know works with helping people understand the universal laws and how they apply to us all. The list goes on and on. Alien life just doesn't appear to me to be anything out of the ordinary.

reply to post by The GUT

He studied thousands of reports, and interrogated hundreds of witnesses to
 UFO experiences. Hynek’s conclusions on UFOs were accurately 
summed up this way: “Hynek submitted that perhaps UFOs were part of
 a parallel reality, slipping in and out of sequence with our own. This was
 a hypothesis that obviously pained him as an empirical scientist. Yet 
after 30 years of interviewing witnesses and investigating sighting 
reports… no other hypothesis seemed to make sense to him.

Dr. Hynek: “Another peculiarity is the alleged ability of certain UFOs to dematerialize... There are quite a few reported instances where two distinctly different UFOs hovering in a clear sky will converge and eventually merge into one object…"

Dr. Hynek and Dr. Vallee describe this strange behavior of UFOs in their
book, The Edge of Reality: “If UFOs are, indeed, somebody else’s ‘nuts
and bolts hardware,’ then we must still explain how such tangible
hardware can change shape before our eyes, vanish … seemingly melt
away in front of us, or apparently ‘materialize’ mysteriously before us
without apparent detection by persons nearby or in neighboring towns.

There are at least three explanations, two of which are related and accessible by current science:

a) 'optical stealth' or active creation of unusual luminosity patterns for the purpose of deception

b) metamaterials, engineered materials with non-standard electromagnetic properties including effective negative index of refraction over certain frequency bands

c) gravitational lensing as a consequence---a physically inevitable consequence---of the hypothetical 'warp drive' employed by unknown ETs capable of interstellar travel via technological engineering of the spacetime metric.


"There are quite a few reported instances where two distinctly different UFOs hovering in a clear sky will converge and eventually merge into one object…""

Not quite: there are reported instances when the *apperance* of distinct UFOs converge and merge into the appearance of a single object.

More concretely: humans have evolved in an environment of entirely flat Euclidean metric, and propagation of light thereof. We assume that multiple images mean multiple actual objects.

Astrophysical observations show that this is not a universal property of Nature. Observations of multiple apparent images of galaxies are explainable via general relativity---there is only one actual galaxy but more than one light path, thereby creating apparently multiple images. It's no more real than seeing multiple images of people created via multiple mirrors---we all know how mirrors work but nobody has experience with engineered metrics. Modern humans have learned how mirrors work and are not fooled. But in-your-face gravitational lensing? Nobody has experience with this.

If, somehow---as a consequence of physics about which we presently know nothing---it is possible to warp space for interstellar travel (meaning new source terms in the stress-energy tensor of the Einstein equation), then optical effects, including multiple images, red and blue shifts, are the unavoidable result.

Originally posted by redrezo

Originally posted by HazyChestNutz
There will be a disclosure. Period. Maybe not today, but before 2012. They will make us think that these "aliens" are evil so therefore they are preparing us for fake alien invasion. Hence, the movies, skyline, Transformers 3, Cowboys vs Aliens, Battle of LA and many more that are coming out this year alone.

Or maybe it could just be human nature? You don't have mention extra-terrestrials in order to reach the same conclusions.

For instance, the chinese who are so un-american are evil and trying to take over America, in particular all the communists.

Fear mongering and xenophobia are hardly unique to the Alien issue.

Nice aliens would introduce themselves nicely, learn our cultural and emotional makeup and come to the conclusion that the proper way to deal with us is to open respectful diplomatic relations and grow from there.

EIther there aren't any coming here, or they're really clueless or they're assholes.

i agree with the op "we have to see it to believe it". i think its the same with/if the goverment tells us jesus is here! we just wouldnt believe it until we seen him.... even if there is discloser they (ETs) wont introduce themselves to us. i think the burden lies with us to introduce ourselves to them. if you think about it, what would they gain coming down and saying HI to us? metaphysical beliefs? nasty habits?.... what would we gain introducing ourselves to cavemen? we would only study their way of life while trying not to alter it... or get smashed with a club??? joking


Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com

There will be diclosure the way they wanted to, not the disclosure we wanted.

if you think about it, what would they gain coming down and saying HI to us?

r-e-s-p-e-c-t

metaphysical beliefs? nasty habits?.... what would we gain introducing ourselves to cavemen? we would only study their way of life while trying not to alter it... or get smashed with a club??? joking

reply to post by redrezo


It's my personal opinion the there are extraterrestrial ufo's, as well as, ufo's created by various nations. It only makes sense to me that we are at a time that either could utilize the fear tactic to take control. The elitist could use it to bring forth the supposed NWO or another race off planet could take advantage of our current fears connected to eccosystems, housing, food supplies and other such issues as these. Either way, if anyone shows up in big ships that are different from what we typically see, it's not going to be a good thing. So, no matter what the offer or the threat presented by either faction.. like that add Uncle Sam used for their "drug problem) JUST SAY NO!

Originally posted by Red_xi
I believed after witnessing a craft first hand.
Not the dot in the sky type, the 25ft above your head type.
Messed my world up pretty bad that day.
I can understand that people won't bother to believe unless it smacks them in the face, that is one of the reasons why I never told that many people. Even if they want to believe you, they can't.
Part of me wishes I never witnessed what I did.
Part of me wishes it never led me down my path.
And part of me wishes I was as ignorant as the day I was born.
I really hope that one day something will convince the minds of nations otherwise.
Because maybe, just maybe, I can then stop with the pretending and cast aside the feelings of isolation.

Thanks for verbalizing what many of us on this side of The Curtain of Secrecy feel... indeed those on the other side can't believe even if they wanted to. I can't blame them, it would be illogical and unnatural to do so, unless you have been confronted by the proof yourself.

reply to post by kmarx


"1. My good friend Dr. David Jacobs."

Good choice. Dr. Jacobs has made some important strides in understanding some of the mysteries behind the Abduction event, the foremost being the methodology of how they convert the natural emotions of a terrified human captive into a loving willing participant in a matter of moments.
Those that want to keep the luxury of disbelief should not read his books.

Originally posted by zorgon

4) Short of an Alien spacecraft landing in Times Square or other such place, what would it take for you to be convinced that someone is telling the truth?

Short of seeing it myself nothing would convince me, even if I wanted it to. That is the natural human response.

1) Which insider, whistle blower or 'ufologist' do YOU believe is telling the truth.

Bob Lazar, even though he qualifies as none of the above. Let's keep the motivation straight. He was not some noble whistle blower that came out because he thought the world had a right to know (as so many seem to think, and want to thank him). Basically he was a rat squealing to save his life. He said so himself. They leaned on him hard after he got caught taking his friends out there, threatening his and his wife's life over the phone, and even shot out one of his tires while driving through the desert. Those stunts backfired when he also discovered his past was now being erased, he then felt going public was his only hope of staying alive.

"Now we all here at ATS know Area 51 exists and they do some really top secret stuff out there..."

Yes and the ONLY reason that we and the rest of the word now know that household name is because of Bob Lazar. Period. Before Bob the world had no clue about the existence or location of this unmarked base, out past the middle of a godforsaken hellhole.

"3) WHY do you believe his story over someone else?"

Simple. After seeing his story after it first aired on the evening news, I got the bright idea of going to see for MYSELF if his claims were true. No one can be prepared for the enormity of what was on display there. Just like he said it was, right where and when he said it was, doing exactly what he said it could, and more... a LOT more.

2) is that person telling you all truth, or has a good story mixed with added 'stuff' to make them look good

I think he has wisely understated and omitted certain information.

Originally posted by A51Watcher
Yes and the ONLY reason that we and the rest of the word now know that household name is because of Bob Lazar. Period.

yes... it's odd how they all forget that little detail when attacking him

For me, there is too many nut jobs out there that have been so obsessed with UFO's they forgot to breath, the lack of oxygen has made them fantasize and hallucinate about the phenomenon.

Stanton Friedman is one of the few that questions anything, he still is looking for the undeniable truth.


If you want disclosure with out a civilian documented (news) video.
You would need a group of people like the disclosure project that would testify under oath to congress.
So then congress would have to act upon it.

The problem has always been who has lead this group.
You would need men of honor, trust and integrity to lead the group.

Two men come to mind that could lead this straight to congress

Jimmy Carter and Neil Armstrong
When it comes to honesty and integrity, these guys are it.
The problem is would they do it?

Theirs your answer, get those guys to lead that group of people and there maybe enough merit to follow through.

Jimmy Carter couldn't do it as president, but he could help lead the way as a civilian.
Neil Armstrong is so honest he has talked in code about it, you just have to find the cave he is hiding in and then get him to talk straight about it.

Originally posted by mysteryskeptic
Jimmy Carter couldn't do it as president, but he could help lead the way as a civilian.

You're probably aware that he and his entire family had a major sighting before he became president, and that one of his campaign promises was to release all the UFO information the government had if he became president.
Well obviously that never happened and no one has ever called him on it, except once. In the early 90's while he was working on a Habitat For Humanity house, an enterprising young female reporter pretending to interview him about the Habitat project, ambushed him with his quote and asked whatever happened to that promise. He looked jolted, became very nervous and stammered out "Yes well, they are still working on it and we are not allowed to discuss it." He then terminated the interview.

Originally posted by R_Clark
For those wanting one of the best tran. affirmations which explains what the OP is saying...

www.bibliotecapleyades.net...

Read the Alien Interview... enlightening.

That was a good read. Thanks for that link.

reply to post by zorgon


It would seem likely that most governments will fall short of an outright offcial statement declaring alien visitation until such time as the first generation at least connected with this phonomena are cold in the ground. The big story of the 21st century will be who authorised the coverups, where did the money go on black projects, why was there no oversight? and so on. Nobody wishes to have a congressional inquisition as nobody has a complete set of answers as multiple programs were running in parallel and compartmentalised. Those that are in a position to shed light on the subject are getting on in years and wish to retire gracefully I suspect with little fanfare for the most part. NASA would have to justify why it spent billions of tax payers dollars on space exploration while knowing the whole time we are being visited by Alien beings. That would not go down well with tax payers. Those at the centre of the early space program would not wish at this stage of life to be hauled over the coals and in front of a public inquiry to explain why it was neccessary to embark of such an extravagent space program (mililtaristic and nationalistic aspects aside) on the public purse and for what purpose. With governments releasing of UFO files (it wants it citizens to see) the offcial stance is fast becoming " we can neither confirm nor deny" least something does occur and the present day governments ends up with egg on its face and owning the problem. There is too much committed money to science in general and space exploration from government purses and big business to simply give up and say there is life outside of this planet lets not continue this research we have our answer. Given the fragile economic recovery no government of this day needs another shock that could lead to the brightest minds ending up in the dole queues or worse leaving for other countries.

The whole situation is a mess with vested interests nested inside government coffers and big business unable to disintangle itself anytime soon. So I agree there will be no disclosure failing any significant (embarrassing event) in my opinon and it has little to do with extraterrestrial life.