Europe To Ban Hundreds Of Herbal Remedies

reply to post by burntheships


Education is fine.

But forcing people at gunpoint is way over the top.

I say gunpoint because it's true.

If you ignore these laws and keep ignoring them, eventually someone will put a gun in your face and demand you surrender. It has control-freak written all over it.

reply to post by muzzleflash


Yes, the way the governements operate, it has become obvious.
Its all about control and money.

Its just sick to see people line up for the ball and chain.

On the one hand, I think...well if they want to, who cares?

On the other hand, its like....if everyone lines up, those who dont become big targets.

Thats the process we are in now.

Seperation....

anyone want to read up alot on this subject read "Bad Science" by Ben Goldacre, it is a book that explains placebo affects, big pharma and how they rip people off with almost identical drugs with different names and 5 year licences to sell them(at extortionate prices). and how many of the tests that big pharma do are corrupted, but one thing it does explain about is how homeopothy is a big scam and many of the things that you think are beneficial are not. here are a couple of facts-

vitamin c does not in any way help cure a cold
lavender oil does not help you sleep
both of these myths where made up by a viteman salesman called patrick holford.

anyway for those who would rather read a confusing website there is one here-
www.badscience.net...

and for anyone who thinks ben goldacre sounds familiar, he is a medical science journalist who i think was involved in exposing gillian mckeith as not being a doctor(she bought a phd on the net).

reply to post by Dilligaf28


Deaths caused by herbs, amino acids, vitamins and minerals in US circa 2008: approx ZERO
Deaths caused by allopathic medicine in US circa 2001: approx 800,000.

(USA figures are easier to find).

Basically, the big pharma cult and their licensed drug peddlers the white coats have been the NUMBER ONE CAUSE OF DEATH in the western world for quite a while, and probably the 3rd most potent killer in the world after poverty and hunger.

Please, stop spouting this garbage about natural medicines needing regulating for toxicity.
This is all about regulating healing plants and making them either unobtainable or the dosages/concentrations so ridiculously tiny they become impotent.

Admitted, 99% of natural medicine as advertised is garbage and ineffective, but toxic/dangerous and in need of regulation ... my arse.

Originally posted by lewman
here are a couple of facts-

vitamin c does not in any way help cure a cold

Oops, I guess we should revoke those 2 nobel peace prizes awarded to Linus Pauling, the 'Vit C Guy'. Silly man must have been misled by a book by Patrick Holford.

Originally posted by NthOther
If you don't know that you should consult your doctor before starting any herbal treatment or supplement and do your own research, you're an idiot.

A white coat is the LAST person I would consult about my health as they generally know nothing about the subject (unless they've self studied).

Why would I consult a doctor before I consume food?

reply to post by RogerT


i never said vitamin c is not beneficial,of course it has benefits just like many other vitamins but it is not a cure for aids or the cold like patrick holford says.
also there are alternative medicines out there that amount to a dilution of one particle to a swimming pools worth of water and other ingredients. the point that ben goldacre tries to get across is that a healthy diet of natural vitamins etc... is way better than a vitamin pill.
he is also a pain in the neck for big pharma, he is not on there payroll and he is constantly trying to discredit there biassed medical tests.

reply to post by starchild10

I thought using common sense and skepticism was good enough? Now that i think about it people are purchasing tons of unlicensed products. I guess common sense and skepticism have become obsolete.

Relax Folks,
No corporate or international government entity is going to stop me or you from growing garlic,basil,etc.
Yet they may try.
Its a creep creep thing is codex,Some won't notice it 'till they're asleep,or re born on their Monsanto matress.

Creep,creep...All the best Tomatoes will soon be the illegally grown ones.

reply to post by lewman


So you read a book by some guy and now you think you know what cures and what does not?
Be careful. For every book you can find proclaiming a miracle food, I'll bet I can find one that calls it the devil's brew.

When it comes to one's own personal health, the best we can do (IMO) is listen to the evidence (mostly anecdotal), see what goes 'ding ding' inside, and then experiment personally.

Why don't you stretch your mind a little and read up on Pauling's studies with Ewan Cameron in Scotland on Vit C and cancer (far more impressive than curing a cold).

Look, I know you're on the side of the naturals, but careful whose opinion you are peddling as your own.

I just watched a quick clip from your man mr. Goldacre arguing against homeopathy. 5 minute first impressions: So he's basically got no concept of energetic medicine yet is happy to lecture on the placebo effect (energetic medicine!).
Plus, as a trained psychiatrist, he's a card carrying member of big pharma cult. He may pretend to be against pharma, but he's an allopath.

reply to post by stumason

There is no "ban" coming into force. It's about licensing the people who sell them, mainly to protect consumers who could be litterally sold anything,

I think what is also worth a mention is that this is a huge step toward protecting the consumer from large corporations selling snake oil to the sick and desperate, which has been on the increase in Europe over there years.

Here's an example -

The unreliability of testimonials was dramatically illustrated by the case of former football star O.J. Simpson,. In March 1994, shortly before these murders took place, he was videotaped telling 4,000 distributors at a sales meeting that Juice Plus+ had cured his arthritis.
Testimony in the murder case indicated that he was also taking sulfasalazine, a standard anti-inflammatory drug that could have relieved his symptoms [6]. Subsequently, his defense attorneys presented medical testimony that Simpson was so crippled by arthritis that he could not have committed the murders [7]

Link www.quackwatch.com...

Is there a list stating what herbs are going to be banned?

I would like to gain some insight into what exactly is being licensed/banned as the source only lists 6.

reply to post by The Djin


Stephen Barrett's Quackwatch?
You might as well use Monsanto or Pfizer's website as your source!

I think what is also worth a mention is that this is a huge step toward protecting the consumer from large corporations selling snake oil to the sick and desperate, which has been on the increase in Europe over there years.

Yeah, whilst the large corporations that peddle pharmaceuticals to the sick and desperate continue to KILL almost a million americans each and every year and no doubt several million more around the world. Who is going to protect the consumer from them?

Look, people don't need protecting from companies selling completely harmless gel caps filled with flash dried, organic veggies, fruits and herbs. They need protecting from the companies selling toxic synthesized chemicals, peddled by the white coats, fully aware that their products damage, maim and kill a percentage of their recipients.

So a famous guy said crushed dried veggies cured his arthritis, and some people spent 30 bucks to find out it didn't 'work' for them - so what? Would you rather 'lose' 30 bucks and eat some good food, or swallow the pharma solution and lose your liver?

reply to post by RogerT

So a famous guy said crushed dried veggies cured his arthritis, and some people spent 30 bucks to find out it didn't 'work' for them - so what? Would you rather 'lose' 30 bucks and eat some good food, or swallow the pharma solution and lose your liver?

So it's Ok for the rich and famous to be paid to lie to some poor sod desperately seeking treatment for the tumor eating away at her daughters brain but not big pharmacy ?

What exactly is the difference between a big Pharma company selling crap and a company like Monavie selling crap ?

If we are going to make claims about things being of medicinal value then those claims require evidence and no one should expect anything less, regulation with all its' downsides should be there to protect the consumer.

I am a chronic insomniac. I take ONLY herbal remedies (teas and such) along with melatonin, after years of ambien, this is the only thing that enables me to sleep at night.

This royally sucks.

Originally posted by The Djin
reply to post by RogerT

 

So a famous guy said crushed dried veggies cured his arthritis, and some people spent 30 bucks to find out it didn't 'work' for them - so what? Would you rather 'lose' 30 bucks and eat some good food, or swallow the pharma solution and lose your liver?

What exactly is the difference between a big Pharma company selling crap and a company like Monavie selling crap ?

Monavie sells gel caps of vegetables and fruit that are harmless, non-toxic and contain nutrition that the body needs (presumably - I'm not well up on Monavie - I thought Juice Plus was the old NSA product).
Big Pharma sells toxic chemicals that kill people. Millions of people. And they know it. And so do the white coated professionals that push their products onto unaware and trusting clients.

If you can't see a difference there, then I can't help you, sorry.

reply to post by beezzer


Try marijuana. It works really well for insomnia, is v. easy to grow as a house plant if you have nosy neighbors or no garden, and once you have your first plant established, you can clone it and keep your supply going indefinitely. Less than 5 bucks for a really good quality seed, some good potting compost and water, that's it.

Originally posted by muzzleflash

Originally posted by stumason
mainly to protect consumers who could be litterally sold anything, which may well be harmful to health rather than helping.

Funny, what happened to buyer beware?

What happen to self-responsibility?

Nah. The Cattle are too dumb to be responsible aren't they?

Mommy Govt Needs to baby sit them through BASIC COMMON SENSE.

Buyer Beware!

HAHAHA, you talk about common sense, then argue against the licensing (testing for safety) of random plant deritivatives. How can you be "buyer aware" if you don't really know what it is you're buying or if the person selling it to you really knows what they are talking about.

A good analogy would be having one restaurant which is inspected and allowed to trade because they have followed safety standards and another where they sell you an anonymous meat in a bun from the back of a van. By your logic, you would happily eat the random meat from the van - no questions asked - and view the licensed (safe and clean) restaurant as somehow untrustworthy because "they" had to license it.

And to the other poster who said they were banning some remedies, I did read the article. It actually states that unlicensed remedies can be sold, as long as the vendor is licensed. A couple are facing a total ban, however, as they have been linked to actual deaths.

EDIT; As has been said, merely being "natural" or "herbal" does not make it better or safer. I can think of plenty of poisons derived from innocent looking plants...

reply to post by RogerT


I would, believe me, but in my job, that's still considered a big no-no.
Dang-it!

reply to post by The Djin


quackwatch is a quack website that toes the party line to the nanometer, might was well be the FDA's website.

www.quackwatch.org...

the FDA banned Tryptophan, an amino acid in 1989 after one supplier screwed up its GMO based bioreactor process, killing several dozen people and maiming thousands. i made a thread back in the day, which can be found here



of course, showing *any* genetic modification process in a questionable light was and is a big no-no, because that's where the bucks are made and where the power is. these things aren't like other commodities, they are for all intents and purposes, state-sponsored and -endorsed weapons.