I spent 3 hours in the ER on the 15th. I just got my $11,000.00 bill in the mail.

A problem I have seen first-hand and on more than one occasion, with American health care, is the huge difference in doctors, who run the gamut from honest, conscientious, altruistic types to flat-out scamming theives whose first concern is paying for their Porsches and million-dollar homes. They herd patients through their offices like cattle.
The god-like "specialists" don't have to resort to the "cattle" method. They simply bill out 5000 dollars per hour for their divine services.

A buddy of mine who fell ill was referred to a neuro-specialist who ran up a $14,000 bill faster than I would think possible. The doctor was an arrogant prick. He literally walked with a swagger.
My friend dumped him and went to an older general practitioner. (A kindly gentleman in his 70s)
A simple blood test revealed an electrolyte issue which was cured almost immediately with a $15.00 mineral supplement and a vitamin B shot.

Originally posted by woodwardjnr
I think there is a statistic to show that the US actually pays a greater percentage of it's GDP towards health care than the UK, which i could never really understand.

The US pays twice 16% compared to around 8% of GDP for the UK and around 10% average for most of Europe. Our costs are by far the highest of anywhere in the world, while our care level, is only around 15th or so.

Yet Obama's plan is actually going to Increase those costs, not reduce them! Obama-care is really a mandate to continue to expand our already outrageous costs, and it certainly does not make healthcare free for anyone that has a job.

So for all you Euro's saying Americans should be happy about Obama-care - understand this clearly, it does not leave us with a system anything like yours, we still have to buy insurance, and after Obama-care the costs of healthcare for the vast majority go UP.

I am completely opposed to it because it does NOTHING to reduce costs, and in fact due to 100's of new types of bureaucracy increases costs, not because it is socialized medicine for only the poor.

reply to post by groingrinder

Hi groingrinder, I have not read the entire thread, but would like to share something with you that may make a difference in how your situation plays out...

A friend of mine has been paying $5 (yes, five dollars) on a hospital bill for 18 years. Seems 18 years ago, his then 3-yr-old son pulled a pot of boiling water off the stove and down his left side. After hospital stay with skin grafts and all, the bill was astronomical (as you can imagine.) His lawyer brother advised him to pay $5 a month until it is paid off. Seems they cannot go after you, as long as you are paying something. Eighteen years later, he is still paying $5 a month and no one hassles him.

I just thought this story might be helpful to you.

Originally posted by xBWOMPx
Ok let me try this again....

Populations for each country

UK 13.5 million
Canada 33.7 million
Australia 22.5 million
America 300+ million + greedy doctors + corrupted government = Hard as F#$% to get free health care!!!!!!!

13.5 million for the UK? Try again chap. It's more like 65 million.

Population has nothing to do with the figures when comparing a % of GDP. Another way of looking at it is taking all the money spent and dividing it by all the people.

reply to post by 2manyquestions

Sorry...but that story is completely out of my capacity for understanding. What is more surreal is that folks line up in support of that system.

I had my prostate cancer cured for $32. The price of parking twice at the hospital.

Here's a little story for you ATS'ers out there, especially those that like to get all high and mighty about those who should/should not, deserve/do not deserve, healthcare...
I am an American. Fortunately, I do now have health insurance through my work, however, it leaves a lot to be desired. It took me till I was 31 years old, though, before the 'system' decided I filled all of the 'qualifications' for being able to receive ('pay for') health insurance.
At the age of 22, I got a huge dose of what the kind of hell this wonderful system of ours can cause. I had noticed throughout my young adulthood some heart issues I was having...but due to not having insurance, I was simply flitted through the local medical clinic being told I was fine, just had a fast heartrate, blah blah, and my favorite, that I was 'too young' to have those kinds of heart problems I was describing, even though my mother had died at the age of 34 from this same heart issue I believed I was having. Perhaps they thought it was psychosomatic? Who knows. So I went on with my life...then, one morning I get up, getting ready for work, my heart goes berserk, completely out of rhythm, I thought I was going to die, literally. I called the ambulance, they worked for a couple of minutes trying to figure out my pulse (it was too fast to read) then when they did get a reading it was 170s-180s. On to the hospital via ambulance, to the local band aid hospital, where they didn't know what the freak to do with me. They had to call a major hospital in the state for 'advice' on what to do. They pumped me full of this and that, wanted to stop my heart and re-start it after putting me to sleep, then finally decided my bp was dropping too fast, and my heart was not cooperating with what they were doing. So they life-flighted me to Morgantown, WV, where I was admitted to WVU hospitals. I was admitted to cardiac ICU for three days, before being placed in the step-down unit. Eventually, my heart came out of atrial fib, I was placed on numerous meds (approximately $400 a month for said meds), and released. Unfortunately, this is a chronic condition, so I've been through this a few more times since then. Lone atrial fibrillation. But here's the kicker...
I could have had a simple ablation procedure done and this heart condition would have a 97% chance of being fixed FOR GOOD. But guess what? I had no insurance...so no doc would recommend me for this procedure... told me, once again, I'm 'too young'--my thought is, if my heart is doing this when I am 'too young' what is it going to be doing when I'm 50, or 60 years old?? And yes, this is the same heart condition my mother died from at 34! Was she 'too young?'
And no, did not qualifiy for Medicaid (there's a lot more stipulations on that then some may think), part-time job, full time college student at the time, full time mother, unmarried. So I got to come home to a bill for the ambulance ride, a bill for the HealthNet flight (holy freaking cow!!), and numerous bills from WVU hospitals from the numerous docs I saw there (I believe the cheapest thing listed on the bill was two Tylenol at $25--yep, thats right). Not to mention I had to go every three months to a cardiologist for an EKG & checkup to monitor this condition. Yeah. And all this on my plate after being told to try to avoid STRESS because it could be a trigger LOL.
So now that I have insurance, guess what?? It's a pre-existing condition. (you may now applaud the American healthcare system)
Instead of getting the procedure, which more than likely would solve the problem altogether, I get to stay on meds just to stay out of the hospital, for the rest of my life and also regular cardiologist appts, ekgs and echos.

Humans' health should NOT be a commodity.

And this is what I don't get. The OP is talking about what is probably a typical occurrence within the US medical system. You have an administration trying to make, I believe, a more equal system. You mention nationalised health care systems that work and suddenly it is all about Socialism and Communism, yet the US system is flawed and hurting too many people. People say: 'I'm not paying more taxes'. But are you all happy to spend billions on nonsensical war chests?

A nationalised system is never free and the level of care is equal despite an individual's income.

The main question is "who are the real criminals?" This kind of crap is why people avoid going to the hospital, the doctors, the dentists, etc, and instead just opt to silently suffer under their conditions. It will only get worse if the politicians get involved.

Originally posted by Mirthful Me
reply to post by seedofchucky

 

None of which addresses the reality that if the OP had applied for AHCCCS he wouldn't have a bill... Period. I realize that doesn't fit into your agenda... But reality and agendas are typically disparate. You can foam at the mouth because it suits you, but personally I would play the adult card and make sure I didn't get a hospital bill and get on with my life.

On another note, here is his hospital's financial assistance page.

Looks like they currently offer assistance to households with annual incomes of $125,000.00 or less... If my 'rithmatic is correct, $50.00 a month is just under that threshold.

But why let facts get in the way of an opportunity to pontificate using sheer ignorance.

edit on 29/12/2010 by Mirthful Me because: Fumbling poo stained fingers...

You missed the point . and clearly the rates they charge even for assistance is comparable to insurance companies them selfs. Just like it says on the website under the basic plan . No american citizen should have to get the bill to pay for medical expenses. Espically when you pay into the system.

You could careless congress spends trillions on wars but then cry about whos gonna pay for the medicare ?


please give me a break.


Even if i never use the healthcare system my whole life i have no problem paying into it for the help of others . Because i understand how a government run by its people works. We need to work together for the greater good . Which is universal health care for all.

People like you that allow for such abuse of power and stealing of citizens.basic needs.


In canada i would even be willing to pay extra to help american citizens cover there healthcare . Why ?

simple. I thoguht it was our human nature to help each other ..... no of course not im probably talking to an american neo con .

The World Health Organization's ranking
of the world's health systems

You should change your name to Super Ignorant

1 France
2 Italy
3 San Marino
4 Andorra
5 Malta
6 Singapore
7 Spain
8 Oman
9 Austria
10 Japan
11 Norway
12 Portugal
13 Monaco
14 Greece
15 Iceland
16 Luxembourg
17 Netherlands
18 United Kingdom
19 Ireland
20 Switzerland
21 Belgium
22 Colombia
23 Sweden
24 Cyprus
25 Germany
26 Saudi Arabia
27 United Arab Emirates
28 Israel
29 Morocco
30 Canada
31 Finland
32 Australia
33 Chile
34 Denmark
35 Dominica
36 Costa Rica
37 United States of America

reply to post by proximo


For the record, I'm not a "Euro" nor do I advocate supporting Obama. I personally think the guy is a total douche with a major chip on his shoulder about the UK.

reply to post by endtimer


Endtimer, gotta give you a for thinking in reality, but this thread is not based in reality but an entitlement mentality where everything 'needed' for life; such as healthcare and even Internet access, should be handed out for free with no regard for compensation to those providing those 'free' services that everyone is 'entitled' to. I wonder how many members here would cheer if the government ordered them to start giving out their time and effort for no to minimal compensation because their work is now considered an 'entitlement'?

This is just a warning, but if you go to a hospital and get treated, DONT SIGN ANYTHING. They cannot go ahead and work on you if you do not sign anything. If they go ahead anyways, you have no agreement to ever pay them back. If you are covered under insurance, leave it to your insurance company to do the signing; it's their bill.

"I realize that doesn't fit into your agenda"


classic ATS cry agenda......

Everyone who smacks your reason and logic must have an agenda right ? How else can you ignorance gap be filled ? =D

Originally posted by xBWOMPx
reply to post by woodwardjnr

 

uh, Maybe because we have millions more then the UK does. More people = bigger cost on health care!

Um, We are talking about Percentage of GDP not overall dollar cost. The percentage is calculated by total dollars gdp divided by population. If you really don't understand what percentage means, perhaps you should be taking remedial math instead of commenting on this thread.

Originally posted by Ancient Champion

Like i said, I already pay enough taxes i shouldn't have to pay more for people that i don't know. I'm already having a hard time paying my own bills, i can't pay your bill too.

But are you currently paying for insurance? What difference would it make to make the exact same payment to the government than to an insurance provider? For the same exact service? This is why I don't understand the argument about paying more. If you paid the government for the insurance or health care, you would not be paying an insurance provider as well. It is an either/or prospect, not both!

Here is my complaint: I have health insurance but cannot afford the co-pay. They want $500 from me to look at my bone spurs. The insurance will pay $3000 for the MRI. I go without treatment or diagnosis, even though I have been paying for insurance for 15 years. They refuse to do the MRI unless I cough up the money.
My life is not in danger, well it might be, but there is no way for me to get a look inside without robbing a bank for the money or getting a loan. $11,000 is a cheap bill if they saved your life.

reply to post by LarryLove


You make a good point! Half of the folks I speak to agree we need 'changes' but we've been so brainwashed and conditioned into thinking that anything that does not involve profit and someone making money off of someone else is socialism!! You speak the 's' word to anyone over here and you are branded as a radical, commie, blah blah. And don't you know Obama's the antichrist? (sarcasm there) Least that's what a lot of these folks here think.
So the 'changes' that the rapidly vanishing middle class refer to seems to be just a new coat of paint over the old system, that's it! They are so worried their neighbor will think they are a Socialist if they agree we need a national healthcare system, they won't even try to think outside of the brainwashing we've endured. And to oppose the numerous occupations we have in other countries? What!? So now we run the risk of being un-patriotic and don't appreciate all the sacrifices made for our freedoms? *sigh*
You know, not all of us Americans have the blinders on. There are some of us that see what's happening, and can make a pretty good guess of what is going to happen soon down the road. But the feeling of helplessness of being eaten in the very same machine we support is what keeps most of our feet tied to the ground. And fear. How to protest effectively with the Patriot Act?
Got to hand it to the American corpocracy, it seems they've succeeded with the effectiveness of their propaganda.

Originally posted by Ferris.Bueller.II
reply to post by endtimer

 

Endtimer, gotta give you a

for thinking in reality, but this thread is not based in reality but an entitlement mentality where everything 'needed' for life; such as healthcare and even Internet access, should be handed out for free with no regard for compensation to those providing those 'free' services that everyone is 'entitled' to. I wonder how many members here would cheer if the government ordered them to start giving out their time and effort for no to minimal compensation because their work is now considered an 'entitlement'?

edit on 12/29/10 by Ferris.Bueller.II because: (no reason given)

I am entitled to my health care because i live in a society that agrees to pay taxes in return for the service. You pay the taxes, but dont get the service so go figure that one out.

reply to post by Ferris.Bueller.II


Why bring in this internet entitlement issue to a health care thread? Did you read the article you linked? It doesn't even state what you claim it does, which is that people feel they are entitled to free internet access. The article linked is discussing media issues, namely the record and print industries and their copyright issues surrounding the internet. Both industries have failed to adapt to a changing business environment within their respective fields. But that has nothing to do with this thread/topic.

I think you are seeing people say "free" in this thread, but I think that those people mean it should be a transparent system in which US tax dollars are used to apply a universal system to all its citizens. No health care system is "free". I can get behind such a deal and would fully support it if that does happen. Let's remember though, if you are paying for insurance now, what difference does it make whom you are paying that money to?

reply to post by pisces77


It is sad. I know not all Americans believe that nationalised health care paves the way for Communism, but changes are needed to bring an equal level of care for all. There will never be a perfect system, but one that isn't driven by profit has to be better all round. Is it really that bad across the pond in regards to being labeled a Socialist if you dare suggest a nationalised medical system?