Is This China’s First Stealth Fighter? (Picture)

reply to post by lewman


Not important but in reality the british empire never fell, it still has considerable hold on the world, it has jsut calmed down.

Fox just broke this-related to the New Fighter:

China's new stealth fighter may use US technology

BRUSSELS – Chinese officials recently unveiled a new, high-tech stealth fighter that could pose a significant threat to American air superiority — and some of its technology, it turns out, may well have come from the U.S. itself.

Balkan military officials and other experts have told The Associated Press that in all probability the Chinese gleaned some of their technological know-how from an American F-117 Nighthawk that was shot down over Serbia in 1999.

Nighthawks were the world's first stealth fighters, planes that were very hard for radar to detect. But on March 27, 1999, during NATO's aerial bombing of Serbia in the Kosovo war, a Serbian anti-aircraft missile shot one of the Nighthawks down. The pilot ejected and was rescued.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/ca73eb38a8a4.jpg[/atsimg]
In this March 28, 1999 file photo, Yugoslav army experts check the wreckage of a downed American F-117 aircraft, in the village of Budjanovci, 30 miles northwest of Belgrade

Source: www.foxnews.com...

reply to post by anon72


This is news? There's lots of satellite images of a Chinese F-117 copy sitting on a runway. I don't really see too much F-117 in the J-20 though...

reply to post by Dimitri Dzengalshlevi


I figured as much. That is why I just added the info to this tread-as the story was recently released. I didn't think it was worthy of it's own thread.

I guess you would agree.

No doubt in my mind that any advance chit they may have came from the US and/or West.

reply to post by anon72


And at the time when the Pentagon was asked about the F-117 wreckage being used by other nations to develop the Skin of their stealth aircraft they replied that it was already by that time almost 30 year old technology.

Originally posted by SLAYER69
reply to post by anon72

 

And at the time when the Pentagon was asked about the F-117 wreckage being used by other nations to develop the Skin of their stealth aircraft they replied that it was already by that time almost 30 year old technology.

Yeah that's no secret.

However, the F-117 was mostly stealthy only because of its shape, at least according to interviews with its designer. Obviously they used some radar-absorbing materials, but this is all old technology.

The F-117 itself wasn't even a fighter. It was an attacker with NO air-to-air capabilities. China got the wreckage of the F-117 shot down in Serbia and learned from the basics of American stealth technology. I really don't think that the Chinese would be stupid enough to replicate old and obsolete technology from an attacker aircraft and use it on a fighter, unlike what Fox news claims (the usually propaganda yarn).

The J-20 is clearly an advanced stealth fighter project. It's entire shape is designed to be both stealthy and mobile enough for WVR combat. Like other modern fighters, it will incorporate other means of active stealth, such as ECMs. This whole news story is just propaganda to downplay the J-20s capabilities.

reply to post by Dimitri Dzengalshlevi


Well we know some things supported by data and video of what the F-22 is capable of. The J-20 has yet to move from the prototype stage. I questioned whether it even has thrust vectoring. Until it shows up at an airshow it's a Dog and Pony show. Interesting picture and images.

I wouldn't rush in assuming that China has a true 5th generation fighters without collaborating facts.

It's called being prudent.

Originally posted by SLAYER69
reply to post by Dimitri Dzengalshlevi

 

Well we know some things supported by data and video of what the F-22 is capable of. The J-20 has yet to move from the prototype stage. I questioned whether it even has thrust vectoring. Until it shows up at an airshow it's a Dog and Pony show. Interesting picture and images.

I wouldn't rush in assuming that China has a true 5th generation fighters without collaborating facts.

It's called being prudent.

edit on 23-1-2011 by SLAYER69 because: (no reason given)

You're right, it is a dog and pony show. I have no doubt that China would not be showing off its current technological prowess in such a matter. What we have seen of the J-20 is without a doubt a PR show. Test models will probably produce a much sleeker production model with better suited parts, like 3DTVC.

reply to post by Dimitri Dzengalshlevi



You do realize that this type of supposed "Leak" is the oldest game in the book of dis-information.
Right?

Shell game.

The more I look at it the more I question whether it's just a "Stealthy" 4th generation jet. It doesn't seem to have thrust vectoring. Interesting comparison.

Here is a comparison....

Skip to 0:25

Skip to 0:21

reply to post by SLAYER69


No, the aircraft being called the J-20 at this point in time does not have 2d or 3d TVC installed. The current configuration of the canards, canted vertical stabs, and the dorsal fins would suggest inherent stabilization of the delta wing rather than being computer stabilized.

This would make it more of a strike or air support aircraft (think F-18 or F/B-111) than an air superiority design (F-15, F-22, PAK-FA/T-50). That doesn't mean it would be incapable or completely incompetent in the air-to-air role - but that it's not a role that the aircraft is designed for.

Upward canted canards indicate an inherently roll/pitch stable design (contrast to downward canting of the EFA-2000, downward canting of the wings of the F-22 and F-23, the horizontal stabs of the F-16) and outward canted vertical stabs only enhance the inherent roll stability of the design. Modern fighters are designed to be inherently unstable and controlled through the avionics because very small changes in the control surfaces can translate to a drastic roll/pitch/yaw change. Strike and support airframes are generally designed to be stable with a payload-centric design.

reply to post by Aim64C


You posted too much here, I am thinking whether I should reply directly to your point or just keep silence.

Generally, back to technology.
The J-20 is a bomber-scaled fighter length 22 meters, 15 meters for wing span, its height is approximately to 5 meters, no less than 19 tons for weight.

VLT is the most attraction used primarily by Rafale and PAKFA, improved on J-20.
Lacking power for thrust is the biggest problem I have been worrying. Reliably, it was WS-10Kai mounted for maiden flight, but even with WS-15 which you can notice the -15 meant 15 ton class for thrust highly over WS-10 the design number merely is a series number, the power for this fighter still would be insufficient.

Considering the F-22 also weighs19 tons, the 19 ton I estimated for J-20 was conservative very much.
So the J-20 quite like Mirage 2000 or Rafale, where be short of T/W ratio, where is compensated by Wing Load.

You're right, it is a dog and pony show. I have no doubt that China would not be showing off its current technological prowess in such a matter. What we have seen of the J-20 is without a doubt a PR show.

Of course it's a PR show, but it's also a clear sign that China is coming on like a freight train in the world stage. Scoff at it all you want but know that China is gunning for super power status & this pr move screams "here we come".

An image PS by me for your understanding thus freight frain

Originally posted by ethancoop

You're right, it is a dog and pony show. I have no doubt that China would not be showing off its current technological prowess in such a matter. What we have seen of the J-20 is without a doubt a PR show.

Of course it's a PR show, but it's also a clear sign that China is coming on like a freight train in the world stage. Scoff at it all you want but know that China is gunning for super power status & this pr move screams "here we come".

I was never doubting their technology or ability. I am simply pointing out that the Chinese are not stupid and would not show off their top technology in such a manner. The fact that the Chinese military called civilian observers outside of their J-20 test location "military fanboys" and told them to leave at a specific date only shows that they knew exactly what was getting leaked and wanted it to be leaked.

Originally posted by FredT
THis weeks AWST has a 3 page article on it.

Based on measurments of known ground vehicles its much larger than the T-50 or the F-22. Its about the same size as a F-111(about 75 feet)

There appears to be f-22 style side weapons bays

In intakes use DSI technology current being used on the F-35

Higher ground clearance than on a F-22

(above taken from AWST January 3, 2011)

 

Given the size of this sucker it seems ideal for a stealthy long range maritime strike platform.

KUDOS to the PLA's esbionage efforts

edit on 1/5/11 by FredT because: (no reason given)

Yes, I agree. But China did not and could have stolen the tech used in this plane, it is entirely indigenous.
Here is a detailed comparison of the J-20 and F-22, it's pretty interesting:

politikalmatters.blogspot.com...

Originally posted by Dimitri Dzengalshlevi

Originally posted by SLAYER69
reply to post by anon72

 

And at the time when the Pentagon was asked about the F-117 wreckage being used by other nations to develop the Skin of their stealth aircraft they replied that it was already by that time almost 30 year old technology.

Yeah that's no secret.

However, the F-117 was mostly stealthy only because of its shape, at least according to interviews with its designer. Obviously they used some radar-absorbing materials, but this is all old technology.

The F-117 itself wasn't even a fighter. It was an attacker with NO air-to-air capabilities. China got the wreckage of the F-117 shot down in Serbia and learned from the basics of American stealth technology. I really don't think that the Chinese would be stupid enough to replicate old and obsolete technology from an attacker aircraft and use it on a fighter, unlike what Fox news claims (the usually propaganda yarn).

The J-20 is clearly an advanced stealth fighter project. It's entire shape is designed to be both stealthy and mobile enough for WVR combat. Like other modern fighters, it will incorporate other means of active stealth, such as ECMs. This whole news story is just propaganda to downplay the J-20s capabilities.

The F-117 would have been of no help in developing the J-20. The J-20 is decades more advanced than it.

I wrote a detailed comparison of the J-20 and F-22, if you want to check it out.

politikalmatters.blogspot.com...

Originally posted by PolitikalMatters

Originally posted by Dimitri Dzengalshlevi

Originally posted by SLAYER69
reply to post by anon72

 

And at the time when the Pentagon was asked about the F-117 wreckage being used by other nations to develop the Skin of their stealth aircraft they replied that it was already by that time almost 30 year old technology.

Yeah that's no secret.

However, the F-117 was mostly stealthy only because of its shape, at least according to interviews with its designer. Obviously they used some radar-absorbing materials, but this is all old technology.

The F-117 itself wasn't even a fighter. It was an attacker with NO air-to-air capabilities. China got the wreckage of the F-117 shot down in Serbia and learned from the basics of American stealth technology. I really don't think that the Chinese would be stupid enough to replicate old and obsolete technology from an attacker aircraft and use it on a fighter, unlike what Fox news claims (the usually propaganda yarn).

The J-20 is clearly an advanced stealth fighter project. It's entire shape is designed to be both stealthy and mobile enough for WVR combat. Like other modern fighters, it will incorporate other means of active stealth, such as ECMs. This whole news story is just propaganda to downplay the J-20s capabilities.

The F-117 would have been of no help in developing the J-20. The J-20 is decades more advanced than it.

I wrote a detailed comparison of the J-20 and F-22, if you want to check it out.

politikalmatters.blogspot.com...

Interesting review (though you didn't have to post it in three different threads ).

Of course there is no F-117 or F-22 in the J-20. However, most Americans seem to believe that all jet fighters and stealth technology is patented by them...

dunno if this is offtopic .. i just wanted to post this for the sake of comparison

China is a peace loving country and not a threat to anyone. China is only interested in territorial defence and I am sure every country believes the same. China can tolerate US having bases just "next door" in South Korea, Japan and Taiwan but US cannot have Russian missiles in Cuba. As for cloning/copying people should be flattered if their designs are used. Work Smart not Hard. Even Bruce Lee back in the 70s incorporated martial arts moves from other martial arts decipline into his Jeet Kune Do. My say is "If it works...why not". US has leading edge technology and has no peers to copy from so its better to get used to the idea that some form of cloning is bound to happen. Saves TIME and MONEY and maybe IMPROVE on the original wherever possible. Thats Chinese THINKING for you'