Is This China’s First Stealth Fighter? (Picture)

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/bfb85237719d.jpg[/atsimg]

They could be the products of a Chinese government misinformation campaign. They could be clever Photoshop jobs by Chinese aviation fanboys. Or they could be the real thing: the first hard evidence of the long-rumored Chengdu J-20, China’s first stealth-fighter prototype.

The above photo and several others surfaced over the Christmas weekend on Chinese Internet forums, catching the eye of Aviation Week fighter guru Bill Sweetman. Sweetman, a noted skeptic in the sometimes enthusiastic world of fast-jet journalism, stressed that the pics might be fakes. Fantastical Photoshop art is a hallmark of Chinese military-themed Websites. See the giant, flying “heli-carrier,” or the submarine flattop — both creations of over-excited Chinese Photoshoppers.

But there are hints that the J-20 photos are for real — and that much clearer shots exist, somewhere. “Rumor has it that better shots have put in transient appearances on Chinese Websites before being zapped by the censor,” Sweetman wrote. That those rumored photos were yanked is itself perhaps proof that Beijing really does have a new fighter. “In China’s military fan Web culture, the rapid intervention of the censors is always a boost for the credibility of the poster,” aviation journalist Rick Fisher told Sweetman.

Most convincingly, the airplane depicted in the snapshots apparently has many of the right characteristics for a fifth-generation stealth-fighter prototype: a chiseled front-section, triangular wings, all-moving tailplanes. In fact, the supposed J-20 seems to combine the front fuselage of the U.S. Air Force’s F-22 with the back half of Russia’s T-50 stealth prototype, which appeared a little less than a year ago.

Source: www.wired.com...

Im telling you, China is gearing up for a fight.

Any ATSer that is into avation/China able to ascertain how good this info is? Combined this tech with the Naval increase in carriers and other types of craft---just a matter of WHEN and not IF they are going to go to war with the USA.

I am doing another post shortly that will tell the other main area Military interest is and how they are getting the upper hand.

Scary.

Hare is a visual comparison:
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/9c58a478afc8.jpg[/atsimg]

probably not war against the US, just intimidation or war against US allies. anyway not all empires last for ever as we can see by the fall of the british,roman and persian empires and these where the strongest in recorded history so maybe its about time someone else took control of the world as america hasnt done a very good job of it.

edit- should probably add the ussr to that list of strong empires

reply to post by anon72


Hi there anon72,
Interesting thread,
My first impressions are that plane in the photo does not look very stealthy. It also looks like it has the tail emblem of the Pakistan Air Force (Gold coloured, swooping hawk). It is very blurred I will grant you but it is not a red star.

I will see what I can dig up on the subject and hopefully be back sometime soon.

PEACE,
RK

It looks logit, it doesn't look like a photoshop image, it doesn't have the hazes or other signs.

I think China just wants to have a state of the art military, not to go actually use them, but either as a deterrent, or to bargain from a position of strength.

reply to post by Rigel Kent


I found these two additional photos but honestly, I don't know if they are that plane. I'll let you look and tell me what you think:

reply to post by anon72


In the OP the drawings show the 2 tail fins sloping inwards - not outwards as they do in your pics.
Is it possible they can be manoevered or controlled to slant either way?

reply to post by anon72


Nice topic and interesting image, thank you.

As far as my eye allows the image of J-20 looks very similar to (SU 47) berkut.

Wikipedia has this article:

en.wikipedia.org...

I'm wondering if this plane is the same one as in the article, but the 2018 release date mentioned is disinfo to the rest of the world.

Originally posted by anon72
reply to post by Rigel Kent

 

I found these two additional photos but honestly, I don't know if they are that plane. I'll let you look and tell me what you think:

You're joking... right? That 1st one is clearly CGI - take a careful look!

reply to post by TortoiseKweek


No, I stick by what I wrote. I have no idea. I just did a picture search for the one reply to the post. Those pics came up. I put them there with the disclaimer. I did think that they may have some credibility with the id on the pic. My bad if wrong.

I a total noob at CGI. Could you please point out what is evident-that I don't see/know/recognize. Thanks.

This is why I put this up here. To get to the bottom of it-the fully scope. I usually get great discussiions about aircraft progects on ATS.

reply to post by anon72


Wings angles for 1, and the shadows....

Look carefully

Seems the Russians are shopping around to develope this one. Looks very similar.


And if the Chinese are baseing there stealth J20 off of a J10, They have a lot to learn about stealth. Just look at the bottom of it.

link

pinched this link off another thread on ATS about this plane as I think it has a better photo

the tail planes are canted outwards , not inwards as is shown above

and just how BIG does that plane look? huge

looks legit enough to me

fingers crossed some clearer images pop up on the net over the next few days

* some more pics at the bottom of this linked page, engines look quite close together, surely not the best for 3d tvc?
link

reply to post by TortoiseKweek


What are you talking about.. It is clearly not CGI? Photoshop has got you paranoid. The shadows are right.

I think the texture of the plane has you thinking that, you are expecting a more textured matte look, but that is in fact how it looks. Not CGI.

it would be funny if they just landed one at jfk airport and claimed there navigation systems went down, i could see china doing that kind of thing just for fun like with the submarine.

The information presented is not enough to draw any kind of conclusion. The CGI capabilities of the average hobbyist are of a scale, today, that hobbyists ten, fifteen years ago could not have imagined.

Honestly, China lacks the ability to create such a fighter. If these pictures are legit, and of a Chinese plane, that means they have some industrial partners. Namely, China lacks the experience in composites and jet engine production to make such an airplane. Their J-10 - is built with an import engine because of their lack of capability.

They are also behind the curve in avionics - so they may be producing a current-generation airframe with 3rd or 4th generation avionics, unless they are doing a lot of partnering.

In any case - such an aircraft would be in the design and testing phase and likely nowhere near production. That, however, presumes it is intended to be part of the regular arsenal and not part of special warfare programs (such as the F-117 - production for that was fewer than 60 airframes; never intended to be part of the regular arsenal). If it is intended to be part of the regular arsenal - it won't hit serviceable numbers for a few years after it first reaches production. Given it's pretty much 2011 right now, and the wikipedia article mentions 2018 - it's more than reasonable to presume there are a few years of development left on this airframe.

If it is, however, intended as a special warfare airframe - we could be looking at it hitting its service numbers much earlier, as such airframes are often a use-as-you-develop sort of deal.

As for credibility being given to these things because they get "zapped by censors" - it can be difficult to determine what brought down a picture or site. I could post a picture on a site and take it down, then say I was forced to take it down by the censor-brigade. This is especially true in a climate where the lack of evidence tends to be used as evidence (the conspiracy and UFO community).

So - we really have to wait and see.

If we had more sources on other activity (whereabouts of different field experts and individuals previously affiliated with Chinese aircraft development, some better information about some of the goings-on at Chinese aircraft manufacturers, etc), then we could probably get a little bit better of an idea of whether or not China was developing such an aircraft (though that wouldn't really mean the picture was real, even if China was developing such a craft - just as all of the "F-19" models were incorrect regarding the F-117).

I'd just sit back and see what happens.

Originally posted by GogoVicMorrow
reply to post by TortoiseKweek

 

What are you talking about.. It is clearly not CGI? Photoshop has got you paranoid. The shadows are right.

I think the texture of the plane has you thinking that, you are expecting a more textured matte look, but that is in fact how it looks. Not CGI.

edit on 28-12-2010 by GogoVicMorrow because: (no reason given)

That image is CGI. Even the artist himself admits posts and tags it as such. It is a series of CGI examples of what artists believe the final product will look like. There are loads of them on the web. They always get ripped off and reposted on the web as actual images.

For example this one on the following link. Completed in good faith by the artist a few years ago and constantly being ripped off and reposted as a real image.

www.milstrat.com...

TJ

reply to post by Rigel Kent


The star is the PLA star. The star is uses for example on the Chinese aerobatic team when they flew J-7s.

Link to image of J-7 wearing star.

www.largescaleplanes.com...

Link to PLA star

english.people.com.cn...

TJ

Ok here are the latest pics!










someone did a face comparison:

I think J-20 is the most evil-looking one of the bunch lol

and I'll bet these bad boys are what's gonna
be on the decks of those new Chinese
aircraft carriers.

Now add to it the capabilities
of the Chinese carrier killer missle
and u have a very strong force on
the open sea.

China is gearing up for war
it seems.