The Ramey Memo: Best Roswell Evidence Ever Found

reply to post by iversusvsversusi


Here is the words Disk and disc explanation..

In speaking of "THE VICTIMS OF THE WRECK",, using the word "DISC" for the crash object, and shipping something "IN THE DISC", Ramey is clearly referring to something other than a balloon crash. The simplest interpretation is to take the words literally. There is no reason for Gen. Ramey to be describing events abstractly in a secret communication to his superiors. This was the actually crash of a so-called "flying disk" craft with a dead crew found on the inside, as corroborated by the testimony of military and civilian witnesses.

Originally posted by Monts
As you can see, it is still a kind of guessing game... however as the researcher in the video notes, he is able to confidently transcribe about 80% of the message. For some of the words, such as "victims", in which some letters are illegible, using the legible letters and then "filling in the blanks" to make logical assumptions is more than good enough for revealing the message.

I agree some letters are legible, but I also agree it's a guessing game for the rest, and 80% is overly optimistic. Do you know a study was done on this memo to see how much of it can really be read?

www.scientificexploration.org...

investigators of this
document suggested, however, that it was ambiguous stimuli being interpreted
by pro-Roswell investigators in accordance with their expectations. To assess
the possible extent of bias in these interpretations, we had three randomly assigned
groups of participants attempt to decipher the document under different
suggestion conditions: one condition in which we told participants (N = 59)
they were looking at a document pertaining to the famous Roswell UFO case, a
second condition in which we told participants (N = 58) that they were looking
at a document pertaining to secret testing of the atomic bomb, and a final condition
in which participants (N = 59) were told nothing about the possible content
of the document.

Many participants indeed claimed to be able to read the document,
although their subsequent solutions appeared to follow directly from the
experimental suggestions. Moreover, the number of words deciphered was related
to participants’ ages, tolerance of ambiguity, and relative exposure to the
UFO field and especially the Roswell case. However, a few words in the same
locations in the document were consistently perceived across the three suggestion
conditions and these matched the words identified in previous investigations.
We conclude therefore that future research of Ramey memo might be potentially
informative if certain methodological criteria are established. Such
protocols are outlined.

In other words when people were told the memo was about an atomic bomb, they found unique words in that context in the memo like "flash" "atomic", and "laboratory", whereas the people that were told about a crashed UFO not surprisingly found the words "crash" and "UFO" which the atomic group didn't find.

Regardless of what else you make of this study, it blows the 80% legibility claim out of the water. On the other hand, the study confirms that some words are legible across all three study groups, such as "story", "Fort Worth TX", and "balloons" in the blind group vs "weather balloons" in the other two groups.

reply to post by Monts


Hey, good thread. This was back when the "scifi" channel was spelled "s c i f i" not "syfy" lol

I am not sure what happened at Roswell, but I have heard of a different theory, then the conventional alien aircraft ones.
Some say that the government wanted the public to think it was alien space craft, to hide the fact that is was actually Airforce technology, that they didn't want anyone to know about, do to its secrecy.

But you know it could go either way, I know before the cold war, during WWII, German scientists were experimenting, fruitlessly, with disc shaped craft. After the war was over, it's rumored the Nazi scientists came to America and continued there experimentation with it.

On the other hand, there are ancient cave drawings of flying space craft, as throughout history, and up to today.
"Man's imagination..? or alien intervention..?? Hmm..

Fort Worth, Texas is where Philip J Corso claims to have seen an alien body that was in transit at the time .This add major credibility to his report . This is one hell of a coincidence if you believe the weather balloon story.

Originally posted by Arbitrageur
Regardless of what else you make of this study, it blows the 80% legibility claim out of the water. On the other hand, the study confirms that some words are legible across all three study groups, such as "story", "Fort Worth TX", and "balloons" in the blind group vs "weather balloons" in the other two groups.

edit on 25-12-2010 by Arbitrageur because: fix typo

Well said,

Indeed, that study does seem to suggest the interpretation lies mostly within the context and eyes of the interpreters themselves.

But it must be noted that the person doing the research in this video isn't a random person in a scientific study; he is a researcher of some sorts, and although he could most certainly be biased towards one side of the story or the other, I find it hard to believe that he would change or alter what the words say on the memo in order to fit his own agenda (but this possibility can't be completely denied either).

It would be useful if someone could tell us what episode of which show this clip came from so we could figure who this guy is.

On the other hand, the part of the memo he focuses on the most is the word "victims"... and with good reason. "Victims" is the only word that fits the blurry word in its obvious context, as the researcher makes important note out of.

Now in what context could the word "Victims" be used if the memo was only referring to a crashed weather balloon?

Originally posted by Monts
The use of quotation suggests that seeing as how this picture was taken recently after the crash, whoever was typing the memo was unsure of how to officially refer to the crashed spacecraft (unsurprising, as how as far as we know, this was the first time such an event had occurred). So, for the time being they used the word "disc", and referred to it as such in quotations as the context is that it was more a modern colloquial instead of an officially designated word.

Actually I think it was probably the rancher, Brazel who first called it a "disc" and the reason others called it that is because that's a term the discoverer of the wreckage used:

www.ufologie.net...

The next day he first heard about the flying disks, and he wondered if what he had found might be the remnants of one of these.

The rancher finds wreckage, the next day he hears about flying disks, and wonders if the wreckage he found is from one of those.

Monday he came to town to sell some wool and while here he went to see Sheriff George Wilcox and "whispered kinda confidential like" that he might have found a flying disk.

That's why I think Brazel started using the word "disc", and others just followed suit.

Then the article goes on to say what the disc consists of:

When the debris was gathered up the tinfoil, paper, tape, and sticks made a bundle about 18 or 20 inches long and about 5 inches thick. In all, he estimated, the entire lot would have weighed maybe five pounds. There was no sign of any metal in the area which might have been used for an engine and no sign of any propellers of any kind, although at least one paper fin had been glued onto some of the tinfoil.

There was no words to be found anywhere on the instrument, although there were letters on some of the parts. Considerable scotch tape and some tape with flowers printed upon it had been used in the construction.

So that's the description of what the rancher thought might be the remains of a flying disc. If the news hadn't been flooded with flying disc reports for a few weeks before his discovery, I'm guessing he would have called a bundle of foil, paper, sticks and scotch tape something other than a disc!

Originally posted by Monts
Now in what context could the word "Victims" be used if the memo was only referring to a crashed weather balloon?

I'm not sure it says "Victims", couldn't it say "VIEWING"? Check out the unenhanced image at the upper left, as well as the enhancement:

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/e0afc58788df.png[/atsimg]
www.roswellproof.com...

I really can't rule out that the original image in the upper left may actually say "VIEWING".

"Victims" is not one of the words found in common by all three groups, like "Balloon" was.

I can understand why, it's pretty hard to make out, I'd say the 3rd and 4th letters are completely illegible and we can't even guess at those.

Edit to add: One of the participants thought the original image looks like "REMAINS" instead of "Victims". I can't see that in the enhancement, but I can see how they got that from the original.

reply to post by Arbitrageur

Looks like it says "Friend" to me.
My problem with this video is that it seems like the FBI were right -- the memo is completely illegible. I don't agree on but 10% of what this researcher translated those blurry splotches as. I could make that memo say anything I want.

Here is the image Rudiak uses: www.roswellproof.com...
This is akin to a blurry blinking pin light out in the sky being the smoking gun for the Galactic Federation of Light. I was interested until the OP's video started zooming up on Rudiak's "translations".

i cdnuolt blveiee taht I cluod aulaclty uesdnatnrd waht I was rdanieg. The phaonmneal pweor of the hmuan mnid, aoccdrnig to a rscheearch at Cmabrigde Uinervtisy, it dseno’t mtaetr in waht oerdr the ltteres in a wrod are, the olny iproamtnt tihng is taht the frsit and lsat ltteer be in the rghit pclae. The rset can be a taotl mses and you can sitll raed it whotuit a pboerlm. Tihs is bcuseae the huamn mnid deos not raed ervey lteter by istlef, but the wrod as a wlohe. Azanmig huh?

reply to post by Illustronic


That is pretty cool I must admit. At one point, in a fuzzy, blurry sort of way, I could almost see the right word. For a instant...

Yaeh, taht is pttery aamnizg.

I would suggest using brightness and contrast to tease out further details and then build an algorithm (probably one already in existance) to trace the letters to a certain preciseness. We could get a bit more acurate on this if we put the technology to work for us.

reply to post by Arbitrageur

What that study tells me is that they were doing their best to muddy the waters. If they really wanted to do a study, they should have told the "interpreters" nothing. Because by telling them it was about any subject at all creates a bias in the mind of the person trying to search for understandable words. Besides the fact, that IF there is a coverup at Roswell, this "study" becomes very convenient, doesn't it?

I'm not so sure there is a coverup at Roswell. At least not the kind of coverup we may think it is. But I certainly am not predisposed to believe a study like this. It sounds too much like a type of groupthink called "directive leadership". (Look it up on Wiki).

So I really don't think it blows anything out of the water. On the other hand, it does give another perspective. And that's a good thing.

reply to post by v1rtu0s0

Good idea. The problem is whether or not we can even get a quality scan of the original.

The original could be scanned at much higher than 600dpi now.

besides the Ramey AKA . Noodles Memo

Just Look at the face of Jesse Marcel Holding the weather balloon

Look at itand study real hard ! If you can Understand body language

That Look his Expression is (to me anyways)
You Gotta be F*C*ing Kidding me ! This not what I Found! ... Look!


If He Truly did made a Mistake of not recognizing it as a Weather balloon Especially at a Base that Weather Balloons Are a Routine at the Base You Would think that Marcel would know what a Weather Balloon looks like ! Especially Knowing what his Military Occupation is! at the Base ! in Roswell NM

From the unsolved mysteries Site Forum (Interesting)
"SUGGEST SAUCERS ARE RADAR TARGET FOR WEATHER OBSERVATION" July 09th 1947




Here is something to think about ...


ROSWELL & MAJOR JESSE MARCEL'S
POSTWAR SERVICE EVALUATIONS
www.roswellproof.com...

Marcel's career did not seem to suffer any adverse effects. He remained the head intelligence officer at Roswell for another year. He was promoted to Lt.-Colonel in the Air Force Reserve the following November (both Blanchard and Dubose recommended approval) and was not quietly let go when his comission ran out in early 1948, as might well have happened if the Air Force felt they had a rash and unreliable intelligence officer who caused them a great deal of public embarrassment. Instead he was recommissioned, and was soon transferred to Washington D.C. in August 1948 for higher intelligence work. (Ramey registered a mild protest, saying he had nobody to replace him.)

Transfered to Washington DC for Higher Intelligence Work and on top of that Promoted ? 1 year later ? WTF..?

Then This ! Quote

First he was made the SAC (Strategic Air Command) Chief of a presumed foreign technology intelligence division, an odd assignment for somebody who allegedly couldn't identify even mundane balloon debris. (Actual job position: Chief, Alien Capabilities Section, Intelligence Division, Hq. SAC) Then at the Pentagon's insistence, he was soon transferred to the Top Secret Special Weapons Project, given access to highly sensitive material, and served as the primary briefing officer for the higher brass in the project. There he also received two highly laudatory evaluations. Obviously the Air Force continued to feel Marcel was an extremely competent and trustworthy intelligence officer following the Roswell incident. None of this fits the profile of someone who badly bungled his intelligence job at Roswell, as the debunkers contend.

Has anyone Researched this ? is this Legit ! ?

If this is Legit if so Thats a Big ? , a Dead give away if it is ...

The Picture Worth a Thousand Words!
The Gotta be F#C#ing kidding me Look what else would it could be ?

I see no Shameful & Saddened Embarrassing expression in these Photos !
Next Question! Who is he Looking at! ? I Wonder! ? Marcel Is Obviously
NOT Looking Towards the Photographer!

Got on these Site's Just for the Pics to Show here ..





1984 Interview With Major Jesse Marcel

Although it clearly says victims, that does not mean "aliens". I would suspect that if it were actual extraterrestrials that crashed they would not look at them and ascribe a human characteristic, such as victim.

This leads me to believe that there were human occupants in whatever crashed. I've always believed that what crashed had to do with German technology seeing as how operation paperclip placed those Nazi scientists in the southwest region of the country, namely Fort Bliss in El Paso and White Sands Missle range just north on US54 in Alamagordo. The disk crashed relative to White Sands.

I believe that the initial report of a disc being found is acurate. I just do not believe that the disc came from outer space. It was "alien" to the 509th at that time because they believed themselves to be the most highly technological squadron in the world at that time, which we now know through FAOI requests and declassified documents on paper clip that they were not.

So you believe Germans were flying with impunity over our soil in a disc? I'd be more inclined to believe in aliens, than that. People will to go any lengths to try and explain away things they don't want to believe. Between the testimony of witnesses who saw it, collected it, evidence after the fact, 110 people interviewed, things like flights into the base following the base.. and then this memo.. and we will insist on believing it was something mundane.

If it were Germans or any other country, I'd think that the U.S. would be keen to let that info out. That's always been the first step of any sort of incursion or spy attempt - announce it loud and clear for the world to hear.

The original analysis of the image was done way back in 1994? Has technology not moved on since then?
I am sure we have better software in 2010 to do a better clean up.

reply to post by fleabit


I didn't say it was the German military or people, I said it was their technology. I believe that the American intelligence agencies knew full well what was going on.

Kind of like the V2 rocket which took us into space is the "Germans". That jet engine is the "Germans". They were the first with the technology and the other countries followed suit as countries are apt to do.

reply to post by Monts


Well now, the cat is out of the bag. Moreover, it cannot be undone. After more than a half century of cover-ups, we can breathe a sigh of relief knowing the truth is being exposed. It is a shame that it took all this time and effort just to get to this point. I have to scratch my head and wonder why all the secrecy. I believe I know why.

Consider this… if we (man) were given the whole truth from the start, we would have to admit that our technology was so primitive, we could not begin to really understand what we were dealing with. This would undoubtedly lead to the creation of mountains of fictitious reports supposedly explaining it all. While this would satisfy most people, there would be scientists, etc. who would blow the whistle on the fake information. There would also be other doubters, including eyewitnesses, who would turn to religion for answers.

While I personally understand it all, from concept to technology to cover-up, I must say that I will continue to pass on the accepted story because I could never tell a child that Santa Claus wasn’t real!

SANTA CLAUS REALLY BEATS THIS JUNK HANDS DOWN! I EVEN SAW SANTA BEING TRACKED ON RADAR! NOW THAT COULDN'T BE FAKE. AS FAR THE ROSWELL STORY, NO FACTS, NO EVIDENCE, JUST OPINIONS! GET OVER IT!

Merry Christmas to All and a Safe and Happy New Year!