Crusading in the name of Darwin

Originally posted by ACTS 2:38
Spiritual does not always mean Godly, witch craft is spiritual yet follows Satan as guide.

Witchcraft...aka, Wicca, is a belief in duality in nature. It is a offspring of druidic religion. They do not have satan in their pantheon.
Your thinking of the hocus pocus flying on brooms nonsense..That was just the church spinning any non-christian druidic religions..and of course out of fun, some former christians took up a sort of anti-christian "witchcraft".
one thing you can count on with christians, they will screw things up, even when they run from the church and oppose it.

If I become a republican, then start eating babies, does that mean republicans are generally baby eaters?
or am I just a nut eating babies pretending to be a republican.

The original definition of science is to know knowledge,

actually, the latin word is scientia, and it simply means knowledge.

With that we are all scientist in many areas, as we know knowledge.

sure, if this is the year 500 BC. No...we are not all scientists as per todays standards.

And any real scientist by today's definition does not know everything about the field they are studying they are constantly researching,

Of course not, else they wouldn't be scientists...they would be historians and teachers..a scientists job is to investigate using magic...kidding, scientific method...to rip down previously held beliefs and investigate and test in order to uncover a greater understanding than previous

and in many cases they take for granted and except the published words of other scientist without ever researching to see if they are correct.

No, in order to be peer reviewed, they must jump through all kinds of merciless hurdles, multiple test studies, etc..its not just deciding what is probably right then moving on...every inch of progress is painstaking and will always be considered unstable grounds because science by its very nature will not use faith that something is forever the answer no matter what evidence is uncovered demonstrating it to not be.

Why are you purposefully lying about what science and the scientific method is? whats your agenda?

As for me I am a self educated creation scientist.

Ahh, nice...I am a self educated flying carpet scientist myself, and I dabble in leprecaun biology...self taught of course

I do research in many areas I am not able to do experiment on much of what I except but as a Excavation contractor and prospector I have see much geological formations that do not fit long and slow processes.

I look forward to reading your peer reviewed papers documenting this...since your a scientist and whatnot.

I love science but I do not except the theory of evolution as science but a faith based belief that has been proved wrong in just about every turn yet is still funded by my tax dollars and force feed into children as fact.

Care to mention where it has been proven wrong? or do I have to take it on faith that it simply was?

:\

"I believe these Atheists suffer from some form of delusion that the rest of us on the planet (95% of us) do understand and that if we bound together we may be able to give vision to these sad blind souls, who given time will eventually try to do harm in the name of Darwin."

Thats kind of funny, I believe that people who believe in something just because of faith, or everybody else is doing it, is the ones living in a blind state. I use to go to church until I was 16. Then I was hit with a blast of "common" sense.

reply to post by SaturnFX


Well said saturn, we think alike on this subject...I believe.lol

Originally posted by ACTS 2:38
I love science but I do not except the theory of evolution as science but a faith based belief that has been proved wrong in just about every turn yet is still funded by my tax dollars and force feed into children as fact.

I can agree with that, though I do accept the theory of Evolution as observation and only common sense, but it does not say much about the Evolution of our Being (growing up) or development of the human mind... In this respect I believe it has the possibility to do harm to the developing mind without proper guidance from the school teachers (which by todays standards are not very high) I have met my share of air-head school teachers and what is really amazing now that after I have grown up and went to my class reunion, I spoke with a teacher who had major influence over me when I was younger and after we sat and talked I learned of the teachers political and worldviews, I was stunned at how enlightened the teacher was and just how much of a laxed life the teach must have led.

I was totally disgusted none the less and was very happy to have found my own way to the truth.

Evolution is being crammed down our youths throat by teachers who in the first place do not know how to properly teach it. This is a major problem with the public school system and this is also where personal political philosophies are allowed to enter the minds of our youth by the misguided themselves.

funny how alot of teacher think the world is just as they have experienced it by the way they were raised, alot of them have no insight to how things actually work and the butterfly effect they are causing to our society.

I am quite sick of my tax dollars supporting this too, though not everyone can afford to send their kids to private school... it is one thing I will be sure to better myself for as if I do have children myself one day they will not be indoctrinated in the public school system but more of a Christian style school.

reply to post by liejunkie01


I believe in something because of experience. Considering I have no faith in any religion. I believe religious text's offers good life lessons, nothing more nothing less. You can get hit with common sense, but realize there are things you cannot and will not ever be able to explain because neither atheist's or believers in the afterlife can ever explain with exact fact. Well, except for the fact that paranormal investigators have put together evidence that proves the existence of the afterlife realm. Such as Ghost Adventures. Im not talking about a "god" or cease of existence, just facts that there is literally so much more than most people think there is. That some things, if we knew today as truth, would be so far beyond belief that most people just could not come to comprehend it. To many people, it cannot exist, yet studies can prove it. Yet, it's not science because you cannot recreate it and prove it with facts, and you cannot summon it whenever you want by some experiment.

Originally posted by FPB214
reply to post by liejunkie01

 

I believe in something because of experience. Considering I have no faith in any religion. I believe religious text's offers good life lessons, nothing more nothing less. You can get hit with common sense, but realize there are things you cannot and will not ever be able to explain because neither atheist's or believers in the afterlife can ever explain with exact fact. Well, except for the fact that paranormal investigators have put together evidence that proves the existence of the afterlife realm. Such as Ghost Adventures. Im not talking about a "god" or cease of existence, just facts that there is literally so much more than most people think there is. That some things, if we knew today as truth, would be so far beyond belief that most people just could not come to comprehend it. To many people, it cannot exist, yet studies can prove it. Yet, it's not science because you cannot recreate it and prove it with facts, and you cannot summon it whenever you want by some experiment.

I agree, and thank you for your input on this subject...

there really is more to life than what we can see, even at the subatomic level and regardless of how infinitely small or large we take it there is still something unexplainable to our human experience.

I believe too many people are followers or of the follower mindset and they do not lead by example, Hitler penning Darwins words re-twisted in his Mein Kampf are a great example of how knowledge used in the wrong vein can lead to a destructive force.

reminds me of a Metallica song ! "My friend of Misery"

I don't have time to do a full post atm, but Hitler was most definitely NOT an Atheist. He believed in a deity. However, he was by no means a Christian. Don't give me the "he was a Catholic" line. I will grant you that he was a papist. Catholics by and large are not Christians. They do not even worship the Father, much less the Son.
At a minimum they regularly violate the 1st and 4th commandments. There is much more to it, but Catholics are pagan idolaters; pure and simple.

reply to post by sonofliberty1776


Protestants believing they're better than Catholics, Muslims stating they're batter than Catholics, Hindus claiming to be better than Muslims, Evangelist fools state they're more correct than regular Catholics...it's like watching monkeys (no pun intended, lol) flinging poop at each other. And the most hilarious thing is, none of them has more evidence/proof for their belief than the others, yet the large majority of them suffers from a superiority complex and is hellbent on stating THEY have the "correct" religion. In the end, they're all filling gaps in knowledge with total speculation and mythical manmade stories.

For rational/logical atheists it's kinda funny to watch as long as they stick to discussion instead of violence

reply to post by Cosmic.Artifact


Yay, more stupidity! It's the gift that keeps on giving.

Originally posted by Cosmic.Artifact
I have posted a reply in a certain thread posing the question...

Are those who wish to use Darwins Theory of Evolution any different than those of ancient history who have used Religion in general to crusade in the name of their God ?

Why yes, they are. The use of the Theory of Evolution as outlined by Darwin (as opposed to Lamarck) is for an explanation of biodiversity arising naturally in nature.

Religion is used to kill people.

I have found alot of evidence for this answer over my years on the internet and I also suspect this is why Darwin gets such a bad rap from Theists in general.

You didn't propose an answer, you proposed a question. When has Darwin been used as an excuse for a 'crusade'? When has it been used for the torturing of dissenters? When has it been used to kill?

I have posed a question that the Theory of Evolution can be used in the same way as religious fanatics have used Religion in the name of their own personal God (which spans quite many faiths, not just one)

And the answer is no because you cannot demonstrate the answer is yes.

Hitler and Stalin were Atheist

Um...you don't read the posts I make in response to you, do I?
Now, Stalin was an atheist, but he didn't do anything in the name of not killing a deity, he did it in the name of a totalitarian ideology in which he wanted to have all the power.

But Hitler? Hitler was a theist through and through

And now Staatspräsident Bolz says that Christianity and the Catholic faith are threatened by us. And to that charge I can answer: In the first place it is Christians and not international atheists who now stand at the head of Germany. I do not merely talk of Christianity, no, I also profess that I will never ally myself with the parties which destroy Christianity. If many wish today to take threatened Christianity under their protection, where, I would ask, was Christianity for them in these fourteen years when they went arm in arm with atheism? No, never and at no time was greater internal damage done to Christianity than in these 14 years when a party, theoretically Christian, sat with those who denied God in one and the same Government.
speech delivered at Stuttgart, February 15, 1933

We were convinced that the people needs and requires this faith. We have therefore undertaken the fight against the atheistic movement, and that not merely with a few theoretical declarations: we have stamped it out.
speech in Berlin, 24 October 1933


I know that here and there the objection has been raised: Yes, but you have deserted Christianity. No, it is not that we have deserted Christianity; it is those who came before us who deserted Christianity. We have only carried through a clear division between politics, which have to do with terrestrial things, and religion, which must concern itself with the celestial sphere. There has been no interference with the doctrine of the Confessions or with their religious freedom, nor will there be any such interference. On the contrary the State protects religion, though always on the one condition that religion will not be used as a cover for political ends.
There may have been a time when even parties founded on the ecclesiastical basis were a necessity. At that time Liberalism was opposed to the Church, while Marxism was anti-religious. But that time is past. National Socialism neither opposes the Church nor is it anti-religious, but on the contrary, it stands on the ground of a real Christianity.
The Church's interests cannot fail to coincide with ours alike in our fight against the symptoms of degeneracy in the world of to-day, in our fight against the Bolshevist culture, against an atheistic movement, against criminality, and in our struggle for the consciousness of a community in our national life, for the conquest of hatred and disunion between the classes, for the conquest of civil war and unrest, of strife and discord. These are not anti-Christian, these are Christian principles.
speech at Koblenz, 26 August 1934

Man has discovered in nature the wonderful notion of that all-mighty being whose law he worships. Fundamentally in everyone there is the feeling for this all-mighty, which we call God (that is to say, the dominion of natural laws throughout the whole universe). The priests, who have always succeeded in exploiting this feeling, threaten punishments for the man who refuses to accept the creed they impose. When one provokes in a child a fear of the dark, one awakens in him a feeling of atavistic dread. Thus this child will be ruled all his life by this dread, whereas another child, who has been intelligently brought up, will be free of it. It's said that every man needs a refuge where he can find consolation and help in unhappiness. I don't believe it! If humanity follows that path, it's solely a matter of tradition and habit. That's a lesson, by the way, that can be drawn from the Bolshevik front. The Russians have no God, and that doesn't prevent them from being able to face death. We don't want to educate anyone in atheism.
night of 11-12 July 1941

Yeah, that's a hell of an atheist for you.

and even in the Nazi doctrine Hitler penned his crusading rite modeled on Darwins theory.

How? How is it modeled upon a successive change in biodiversity over generations? Darwin's theory says nothing about one organism being better than another! It may say that one is more 'fit', but 'fitness' is a measure of how well an organism survives in an environment No organism is better than another. A tiger is not better than a shark because a shark cannot live where a tiger lives and a tiger cannot live where a shark lives.

Of course, you're going to disagree with me without demonstrating how evolution was part of the Nazi ideology.

Hitler many say was a Christian but it is irrelevant because he had strayed form his faith and from true Christianity.

I'm sorry, but he got his ideas from Martin Luther, who was undoubtedly a Christian.

From Martin Luther:

But the Jews are so hardened that they listen to nothing; though overcome by testimonies they yield not an inch. It is a pernicious race, oppressing all men by their usury and rapine. If they give a prince or magistrate a thousand florins, they extort twenty thousand from the subjects in payment. We must ever keep on guard against them.

Then there is the infamous antisemitic work "On the Jews and their lies"

Hitler was undoubtedly a Christian and got his ideas from Christian teaching.

And there is no such thing as true Christianity, as there are a many different sects among three main schools of thought on salvation (Universalism, Arminianism, and Calvinism), let alone on the specific doctrines of each group.

I have found that the percentage of these "Crusaders for Darwin" are quite young also,

You've not defined what a 'Crusader for Darwin' is, so how am I supposed to know if you're right? Oh, and back to your idiotic ageism. Show me evidence for their claim.

Oh, and do you mean that the whole of the community of biological scientists in the world today is made up of 'quite young' people? Last time I checked that statement would be a load of poo.

And yes, the whole community of biological scientists is a rational claim to make. They all support evolution based upon the vast array of evidence in favor of it.

Oh sure, there might be some scientists that don't agree with the theory...but they're an infinitely small part of the population. There are in fact more scientists in favor of the theory of evolution named "Steve" (or some variation of) than there are total scientists in opposition to the theory.

Project Steve

and most of them are self-proclaimed Atheists

Except for Dr. Ken Miller, a devout Roman Catholic:



Or Pentecostal preacher Robert T. Bakker, a legendary paleontologist. I mean, two examples of two of the great luminaries should be mroe than enough.

but Atheism and the ignorance associated with it

Hey look, more bigotry being flagrantly thrown around on this board without the moderators interceding!

I'm sorry, but you've yet to demonstrate any of your claims about atheist, let alone that there is any sort of ignorance associated with it. But I guess we're all just people who listen to atheists luminaries like Marilyn Manson...because, you know, he's the guy who's written books that we read and stuff on atheism.

You thoughtless worm of a bigot.

is only a very small percent of the planets population, barely registering on the pie-graph O' faith.

Yay, logical fallacy: argumentum ad populum!

I believe we need to pay special attention to these misled youth for it will be from this particular group that another Hitler may arise and that is something we really do not need in the world again.

Oh...
whatthehelliswrongwithyou?!

I'm sorry, but another Hitler is more likely to rise of from a community that excludes individuals as misguided for no reason other than personal bigotry.

If you cannot demonstrate your claims, don't make them. This is stupid. I don't even know why I'm still responding after this overtly bigoted statement.

I believe we should show these sad Atheistic souls unconditional love and help them to better understand that which they do in the face of humanity.

I'm sorry, but what are we doing that's so wrong? Asking to be treated as human beings, something which you aren't doing to us at the moment? Asking that we get a say in politics, especially in the western countries where we actually make up statistically significant portions of the population?

Their crusade is not that of a just crusade but that which preaches hate for the majority of the rest of the God fearing planet

I'm sorry, but can you demonstrate atheists preaching hate against anyone in the last dozen years? Can you show that these people preaching hate are a majority of atheists?

which I still believe to be around 95% of Earths population.

Well, my girlfriend's little cousin still believes in Santa Clause and the Easter Bunny...so belief has no sway over population. Atheists make up at least 8% of the global population. And I've already showed you, in detail, that 1/3rd of the world's population is in utter disagreement with Abrahamic monotheism.

I believe these Atheists suffer from some form of delusion

What form of delusion?
How is not accepting claims that aren't based in evidence delusional?

that the rest of us on the planet (95% of us) do understand

1: The number is still male bovine fecal matter.
2: The world's theist population disagrees entirely. There are 2 big Abrahamic religions, each of which is in conflict amongst itself about what is the true way to follow that religion. Then there's the Hindu population, that entirely disagrees. Then there's the Buddhists, Sikhs, etc who also disagree.

2/3rds of the world disagrees with your religion and 1/3rd disagrees with monotheism.

and that if we bound together we may be able to give vision to these sad blind souls,

I'm sorry, but since when is O&C an atheist bashing forum?

who given time will eventually try to do harm in the name of Darwin.

Show me a single instance of people doing harm in the name of Darwin. Just one.

I guess anyone who drops a bomb is doing harm in the name of Newton as well.

thoughts ?

You're an idiot. If you'd like to object to this claim, please provide evidence to support your blatantly false allegations.

Or we could even debate the subject of theism in the proper debate forum

it still does not extinguish the fact that there are those who wish to misuse and Crusade in the name of Darwin, Personally I love Jesus and all but I do not have an Image of my God to be as my Avatar nor do I misuse his name or his teachings, philosophy or his Theories.

Darwin is not being used for face value yet on the other hand his "Theory" is being used by would be Atheists to do harm by it on to others.

Darwins Theory is an educational tool designed to teach Biology... nothing more.

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
Yay, more stupidity! It's the gift that keeps on giving.

Dear would be, self proclaimed God...

please try a condensed version of your rhetoric, as I do not like how you try to take over conversation with the introduction of your own personal and non-established fact.

yes my brain is small than some, I guess going by Darwins teaching I should be exterminated as Hitler would had done to his own subjects.

I have a disability and in school I was teased alot by bullies such as this... I have heard the word 'retard' and all the likes well enough by now to be able to spot these bullies right off the bat.

I am sorry but I was born this way, think of it as my way of finally getting justice... and by the power of the internet be it so !

Mod Edit: No Quote/Plagiarism – Please Review This Link.

Originally posted by Cosmic.Artifact

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
Yay, more stupidity! It's the gift that keeps on giving.

Dear would be, self proclaimed God...

When did I proclaim myself God? Ok, there was this thread where I did that, but it was to illustrate a point that you cannot prove or disprove any divinity claims.

please try a condensed version of your rhetoric, as I do not like how you try to take over conversation with the introduction of your own personal and non-established fact.

I'm sorry, but I'm going to have to start mocking you if you keep on with this. I'll say things like "Baby gonna cry?" in a mocking tone.

1: I can't condense a response to such stupidity because it is stupid on so many levels and I have to address all of them.
2: I'm not trying to take over the conversation, I'm trying to point out that your argument is stupid.
3: I'm not introducing my own person and/or non-established facts. I produce 5 several external sources for the statements I made, quoted Hitler and Luther in defense of my claims about Hitler, and demonstrated two examples of not-young theist 'evolution crusaders' with external sources.
4: First you get on my case for putting out 'one-liners' and now my posts aren't condensed enough for you?

yes my brain is small than some, I guess going by Darwins teaching I should be exterminated as Hitler would had done to his own subjects.

Condensed version: Prove that "Darwin's teachings" (whatever those may be) say that stupid people should be killed. (Oh noes, this is a one line response!)

Original version (yes, I'm mocking your stupid request with this): Brain size actually doesn't relate too much to intelligence, otherwise the smartest people would necessarily be the biggest ones. Einstein, Hawking, etc aren't exactly the biggest people.

Now, on to Darwin. Nowhere in his writings can be found calls to exterminate individuals. He was simply highlighting observations of nature on genealogy and diversity.

I have a disability and in school I was teased alot by bullies such as this... I have heard the word 'retard' and all the likes well enough by now to be able to spot these bullies right off the bat.

Why, I have a disability as well. Now, I wouldn't be one to judge you based upon things you are born with or that are the result of things that are beyond your control. However, these arguments are baseless. You seem to be making a whole lot of statements that aren't founded in evidence.

Oh, and weren't you the guy that said that all atheists have IQs below 85? As a guy who grew up as the shortest kid in his class and one of the skinny ones...I know bullying to. Your attacks on atheists? Classic, childish bullying.

Mod Edit: No Quote/Plagiarism – Please Review This Link.

reply to post by Cosmic.Artifact


Now you're just playing with me, right? You're providing massive block-o-texts after telling me not to take your paragraphs apart. Sorry, but I'm going to have to.

Originally posted by Cosmic.Artifact
Recent Studies have confirmed the fine tuning of the cosmological constant (also known as "dark energy").

I'm sorry, but where's the evidence that anyone tuned it? We know that the constant is the way it is, but we have no way of knowing that the constant could actually be different from the way it is.

You're making an argument that the universe must be fine tuned for our existence without providing any evidence that it can be any other way.

(snip an explanation of Dark Energy)

Cutting this out because it seems sort of useless. I know what it is.

yay for the Dark Energy... something that was not yet discovered in the time of Darwin (the Racial Dictator)

Darwin was not a racial dictator. Stop defaming the name of one of the greatest scientific minds of history. Unless of course, you can actually back up your claims that he was a racial dictator.

Science has Evolved quite a bit since then.

And it's evolved a lot more since the time when people thought that the Sun was created after plants.

Originally posted by Cosmic.Artifact
it still does not extinguish the fact that there are those who wish to misuse and Crusade in the name of Darwin, Personally I love Jesus and all but I do not have an Image of my God to be as my Avatar nor do I misuse his name or his teachings, philosophy or his Theories.

Darwin is not being used for face value yet on the other hand his "Theory" is being used by would be Atheists to do harm by it on to others.

Darwins Theory is an educational tool designed to teach Biology... nothing more.

Not once has a historical leader done anything because Darwin suggested it!! You are trying to blame the man for figuring out a natural process, it's NOT an ideology and you can't blame Darwin for a natural fact.

I know you'll keep on repeating the opposite like a parrot, but fact is, you can't misuse a natural process, lol. Please enlighten us, how was Darwin's theory "used" in a bad way

reply to post by Cosmic.Artifact


Plagerism!

I've seen this statement before, and the whole thing can be found at this link that I provided!


Cite your sources, don't claim external material as your own. Also, don't mass-quote something without outlining the point it illustrates. Lastly, don't be a hypocrite. You just asked me to condense my posts when you've just posted something that is a massive wall of text.

Oh, and this relies heavily of the (incredibly debunked work) of William Dembski. Here is a proper rebuttal of that work.

so Hitlitarian so Graceful yet so Racial I just don't know what to make of it...

Darwin was a super-racist penned in his own word, I guess anyone following him has not been able to experience the fruits of other cultures such as I have living and growing up in America where we have Liberty and Justice for all.

I have made so many friends from different cultures by not living my life with Racial views but instead showing love, respect and kindness along with interest for the other cultures which make up the whole of the Free America.

Darwin surely must be the best looking cat in all of Creation, but what do you guys think of a contest between Darwin and Hitler, who would you think takes the cake ?

Originally posted by Cosmic.Artifact

I believe these Atheists suffer from some form of delusion that the rest of us on the planet (95% of us) do understand and that if we bound together we may be able to give vision to these sad blind souls, who given time will eventually try to do harm in the name of Darwin.

thoughts ?

Thanks for the laugh.

So...the 5% who don't believe in some invisible man who controls the world, that will reward you for being good, smite the planet if you make him angry, and will send you to the depths of an equally invisible fiery hell if you disobey him...are the delusional ones?

Hallucination: illusory perception; a common symptom of severe mental disorder; perceive what is not there; have illusions

Delusion: a mistaken or unfounded opinion or idea, an erroneous belief that is held in the face of evidence to the contrary

definition

reply to post by Cosmic.Artifact

Sure, you weren't showing racism at all when you labelled me a Kafir with a bone through my nose.

You realise you have committed outright theft in this thread twice?
Yes, plagarism is a stupid, cowardly, dishonest form of theft.

Your posts here prove yourself to be a thief a liar and a troll, trying to get a rise out of people, ignoring all on-topic argument, and trying to pass off another person's words as your own.
You've also proved you are not capable of debate, of logic, or even of rational thought.

If I had to choose between a place in "heaven" with people like you and a burning pit of brimstone I'd choose the pit.

However you are good for one thing, and that's for creating atheists. More people are persuaded to dismiss theistic beliefs by arrogant, stupid, hypocritical lying "Christians" than by all the atheists in the world.